#3

How to Live a Purpose-Filled,

Meaningful, Goal-less Life

CHERYL RICHARDSON IN CONVERSATION WITH KATE NORTHRUP

[Intro music]

NORTHRUP: Hi, this is Kate Northrup, author of Money: A Love Story, and I’m so happy to be here
interviewing my friend Cheryl Richardson today. She is an amazing, amazing woman. She’s a New York
Times bestselling author of several books, including Take Time for Your Life, Life Makeovers, Stand Up
for Your Life, and one book that actually is my favorite, which is called The Art of Extreme Self-Care. I
just absolutely love that book and everybody needs to own it.
She’s been featured on Good Morning America to the Today show, in Good Housekeeping and
O magazine, and she also has a radio show on Hay House Radio called Coach on Call, and I highly
recommend that show as well. And she is on Facebook and on Twitter, @CoachonCall, and on Facebook
at Cheryl Richardson. So, Cheryl, thank you so much for joining me today.

RICHARDSON: Hi, Kate. I’m so excited to be with you.

NORTHRUP: Yeah. I’m so excited to chat. And, you know, we’re going to talk today about goal setting
and about resolutions and, you know, just the general thing of how we make change in our life, and that’s
obviously something you’re an expert at in your own [chuckles] life and helping other people. And I just
want to ask you, to begin with, you know, where are you at in your own journey with goals? And how do
you feel about goals?

RICHARDSON: It’s so funny. When you just said, we’re going to talk about goals and we’re going to
talk about resolutions, and when you said resolutions, I could feel this like anxious twinge in my body.
And I pay attention to the feelings that I get in my body because they’re usually pretty valuable. They
provide me with valuable information. And the first thing I thought was, ugh, still to this day, at my age
and with as much experience as I’ve had, the idea of setting resolutions just makes me anxious. It’s like,
I don’t know, it still feels like a setup for failure. And that’s, you know, just my own personal experience.
Where am I at today? Well, let me just start by saying that where I began probably 25 years ago
was taking goal setting really seriously, and I’m glad I did. I set goals in several areas of my life, financial,
career, relationships, intellectual goals, spiritual goals, you name it. I can remember, I can see in my mind
like the map that I would create with all of the different goals. And, you know what was great about that,

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Kate, was it helped me to get in touch with what I wanted. Because growing up I didn’t have the sense
that I was allowed to want anything, just in the culture that we grew up in and in the family I grew up in.
You know, we were just working hard to get by and so I didn’t have very good want muscles. And I didn’t
allow myself to want much.
So that kind of elaborate goal setting was a great way of connecting with what was important to me at
that time in my life. And I would write them down, absolutely, I was a big fan of Tony Robbins, you know,
many years ago, where he would say, put a goal in writing. And I was also a big fan of the early spiritual
writers like Catherine Ponder and Norman Vincent Peale and Zig Ziglar and Napoleon Hill, you know, all
the great early writers who talked about the importance of putting goals in writing, and I did all of that.
And, over time, the goals in writing would evolve into goals in writing and treasure mapping, which
I first learned from Robert Collier in a book called The Secret of the Ages published in the early 1900s, where
he talked about the power of visual images to draw into our lives what it was we most wanted. I devoured
that book and began doing treasure maps probably 20 years ago, where it was, you know, a giant collage of
all of the photos and words that represented the things that I wanted to bring into my life. All of those things
played such an important part in my goal-setting process and growth over time.
As I got older and as I gained more experience, and quite frankly as I started to really experience
the power of manifestation, I mean, writing down goals, creating treasure maps, speaking about them,
creating action plans for each goal, which I did early on, all of those things made a huge difference. I
mean, I can tell you that probably 75 percent of what I intended to have happen happened in my life and
the other 25 percent, you know, I grew beyond it and it didn’t matter or it was in my highest and best
interest to not have those goals accomplished.
And let me throw in a caveat that any time I set a goal, and I still do this today in terms of any
intentions I have, I always do so with this little prayer, and everyone can use this prayer. It’s “May this or
something greater occur in my life.” So that I wasn’t worried about, uh-oh, what if I pick something and
it’s the wrong thing or it’s not enough or it’s, you know, a left turn and I should be going right? May this
or something greater occur in my life, you know? May this or something greater, something that is for
my highest and best interest occur in my life because I always saw myself as co-creating with the divine
in any of the goal setting that I did.
Today I would say my goal setting has evolved to a place that really works for me and that is less
about what I want in my life and more about who I want to become because as I focus on the who, who I
am, how I need to grow, as I put more emphasis on that, what I find is what is no longer aligned with that
starts to fall away and what is aligned with that begins to show up in my life.
And I’ll give you a very specific example. Every, I would say, pretty much every year, like so
many of us, part of my New Year’s goals early on was to always get in better shape, to make my health
more of a priority. And some years, you know, I made some progress with it and other years not so much

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or not at all [chuckles].

And this past year, let me back up and say that I started several years ago no longer setting
resolutions at the beginning of the year but setting 10 intentions on the day of my birthday. That’s sort of
my gift to myself. So, every birthday I would revisit the prior year. I would look at what I wrote in my
journal about my intentions and what I wanted for myself. And I would write myself a letter, a love letter
telling myself how, you know, sort of reviewing the year, which intentions came to fruition, which ones
didn’t and why, and then I would set 10 new intentions.
This last year, this last goal-setting process, if you will, for me, my health was a priority. I really
wanted to get healthier. I’d spent a lot of time on the road and just, you know, was barely getting by. And
I’d put on weight and just wasn’t feeling good. So, instead of saying, I would like to lose 20 pounds or I
would like to, you know, fit into a certain size or whatever, what I started to realize was, I asked myself,
who do I need to be in order to get healthier? And I realized that I was somebody who had always said I
valued health. If I had done any values exercise, health would have always been on the list.
Yet I wasn’t the kind of person who acted as though she valued health. Because when I looked
at what it was I valued, being health, what did that mean to me? It meant moving my body every day, it
meant doing my best to consume healthy foods whenever possible but not with perfection because I gave
that up long ago. Who is the kind of person who would value health and how would they show up in
everyday life?
And I made a point to begin becoming that person. So my only goal, my primary goal, was to
become the kind of person who truly valued health in her daily life. And the way I would know it is when
I would begin to make choices about my health as a priority over everything else, and that included work.
And I’m happy to say that with just, so there’s two things I want to say about that. Number one,
choosing a goal, now what I do is choose a goal based on who I need to become. And then, I also just
let that be my main focus. Instead of a whole bunch of goals, which to me can be overwhelming at this
point, I know if I become a woman who demonstrates every day that she values her emotional, physical
and spiritual health as a priority first and foremost, everything else will fall into place.
And I’m here to tell you that it’s been almost a year because my birthday’s coming up, it’s been
almost a year, and it’s worked. I mean, the other day, here’s how I know it’s worked. The other day I was,
I had several things scheduled, one hour after the other. Now I’m telling on myself here, Kate [chuckles],
but it’s--

NORTHRUP: I love that.

RICHARDSON: Yeah, it’s a great example. I had, from like 9:00 in the morning, I had meetings scheduled,
nine, 10, 11, and I had a dear friend of mine call and say, “My gosh, it’s a gorgeous day. I’m going for a

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hike this morning in one of my favorite state parks. Do you want to join me?” And I instantly moved all
of my appointments around to join her. And when I got in the car to drive to the state park, I thought, oh,
my gosh. I have become a woman who makes her health a priority over everything else. Like I really got
it because my actions, my first reaction was, you know what? Nothing’s more important than this. It’s a
beautiful day. I love hiking. I love being with this person. The weather’s great. I can move everything
else. No one’s going to die if I don’t show up for a meeting. I want to go hike.
And that’s the kind of goal setting that I’m interested in now where you become the kind of
person who can ultimately just naturally step into the kind of life that you want by focusing on a quality
of character that needs to be developed single-pointedly over time. Sorry, that’s a very long answer
[chuckles] to your question.

NORTHRUP: I loved every bit of it. [Chuckles] Thank you. You covered a lot of things. Especially I
love the piece about not being attached in that prayer that you do. Could you just repeat that, just in case
people didn’t get it, what that prayer is? It was so beautiful.

RICHARDSON: Sure. And, you know, it’s funny. I just came back from an event where I was speaking,
and in the book-signing line, I must have had three or four people say to me, I’m really afraid to set goals
because what if I set the wrong ones? Or what if I set a goal and I change my mind three months later and
it’s already starting to happen and I’m thinking, uh-oh. So I kept giving people this prayer. So the prayer
is, “May this or something greater occur in my life.” It’s really quite simple. May this or something
greater occur in my life.

NORTHRUP: It is. And there’s so much freedom in that. So I love that. You know, really knowing that
you can’t make a mistake [chuckles], you know, when you set a goal. And I’d love to know, there are all
these areas. We’ve got our spiritual lives, we’ve got our relationship with ourselves, with our partners,
with our spouses, we’ve got business, we’ve got money, we have health, creativity. So I love the idea of
focusing on one intention or one area at a time because I, like you, have a tendency, or like you said you
did in the past, have every single area and like all these different [chuckles] things I want to do in every
area all at the same time, and it is overwhelming and none of them happen. So how do you recommend
people go about feeling into or choosing which area of their life is the priority if they’re feeling like every
area is the priority?

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It’s a good question. And it’s a question that I’m always
considering and hosting. When I worked with individual clients as a coach but when I’m working with
people in a workshop setting, I’m always hosting this question, what’s the one area of this person’s life that
if they focused on that, everything else would improve? Because it does. It just does.

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And usually, I’m looking for the area that is draining their energy the most because I view life from
an energetic perspective, and more and more so as the years go by I really get that, you know, we’re all
energy, everything we see is energy, energy is vibrating. And if you’re vibrating at a slower level because
you’re being drained by certain circumstances in your life, then my goal is to up the ante, you know, to up
your energy level because I know when we get your body vibrating at a higher level, you naturally start to
attract higher and better things into your life.
So, one of the questions I, here’s a few of the questions I might ask. What area of your life is
draining your energy the most? And you might say, well, finances. I’m really scared. I don’t know how
I’m going to pay my rent and I’m really afraid that I’m going to get into big trouble. Well, that’s, you
know, that’s a great example of, well, chances are your money is, and think about that example, if your
money is in, if you are in debt and you’re really struggling, Kate, you know this better than anybody,
you’ve written this amazing book and you really, you’ve written this beautiful book that was created from
your own experience and you know how your fear about money affects every single area of your life. It’s
going to affect your sleep. It’s going to affect your self-esteem. It’s going to affect your relationships. It’s
going to make you feel unsafe in the world and it’s going to cause you to keep beating the daylights out of
yourself every day, telling yourself how bad you are for getting yourself into this situation.
So if you were to just focus on the financial piece and ask yourself then, who would I have to be to
be somebody who was financially responsible with money? And you might get an answer like, I’d need to
be more disciplined or I’d need to be more generous or I’d need to be more grateful. I’d need to be more
practical. I’d need to be somebody who can ask for help and receive that help.
So the question, which area of your life is draining your energy the most is a good place to start.
You could also ask yourself in terms of choosing which area, which area of my life do I know I need to
address that I keep procrastinating about? So which area of your life do you know you need to get handled
that you keep procrastinating about, you keep putting off? Pretty much everybody has an answer to that
[chuckles] question. And, yeah, that’s going to give you another example of an area that you might want
to focus on in terms of setting goals.
Those are a couple of questions that you can ask yourself. That’s a great place, and the third
question I would say is, you know, what area do you keep saying you want to get a handle on that just, you
don’t? You know, you just don’t. Like look at your resolutions, look at your, especially your resolutions
because the thing about resolutions is they’ll always point you in the direction of the place that’s causing
you the most pain.
And so, where’s the area that you keep setting as a resolution but you don’t, you know, ultimately
you fail at accomplishing that? That’s just an indication that it may be the one area you want to focus on
and the very first thing you want to do is get help because if your best thinking got you where you are and
you haven’t been able to accomplish that resolution or that change, then you really need the thinking of
someone else.

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NORTHRUP: Mm-hmm. Getting the support that you need is so important.

RICHARDSON: Yes.

NORTHRUP: And I love those questions, you know, getting out a journal and asking yourself those
questions could be such a great place to start. And what I love about that is it’s really coming from inside
and it’s really an invitation to trust ourselves, that we actually do know where our energy will best be
spent, and it’s not about, you know, somebody else giving us a five-step prescription to, you know, whosy,
whatsit or whatever.

[Laughter]

NORTHRUP: So thank you for that.

RICHARDSON: Absolutely. You’re right.

NORTHRUP: So you talked about this area of focusing on your health that has actually been working
really well for you, and I love the story about canceling your appointments and going hiking. That’s such
a woman after my own heart. And I’d love to know, do you have a story of a time when you set a goal or
an intention and you fell off the wagon and it didn’t work out like you thought and maybe why or what
you learned from that?

RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm. Well, definitely, I mean, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is
something health related, whether it would be wanting to get in better shape, wanting to, you know,
wanting to lose some weight or to just feel better in my body. I mean, that was the one area, I mean,
certainly there were other areas over time, but that was the one area that I consistently would disappoint
myself with.
And, you know, if I go back and look at why, like what happened, again I think that too often I was
setting the goal without looking at how my actions, my daily actions, were reflecting the character, the
quality of character that I needed to develop. So, in some ways, setting a goal like losing weight or getting
out of debt or eliminating clutter, these are very common examples and they’re also the areas where people
tend to procrastinate about moving forward, you know, about doing something to move forward, all of
those areas, when we set goals without addressing the inner work that needs to be done, we really set
ourselves up for failure. It becomes this pattern of, once again, see, I don’t have what it takes.
It’s like, you know, really what it’s doing is it’s just reinforcing beliefs that we hold somewhere
inside, multiple beliefs usually, that we keep making right by setting the goal and then not following

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through. And then some part of us goes, see? You’re not disciplined. See? You’re not somebody who can
be responsible with money. See? You’re not somebody, you know, your mother had problems with clutter
or your grandmother had problems with clutter and it’s just in your genes. This is how it’s going to be.
So, whenever I had trouble accomplishing a goal, it was usually one of two reasons. Number one,
I wasn’t looking at how I needed to grow in order to become the person that could accomplish that goal.
Or, number two, the goal was being driven by my head and not by my heart, not by the connection between
my head and my heart, I would say.
So sometimes we set goals, and I’ve certainly done this in the past, where I’ve set goals because I
thought I should have that as a goal or because everybody else was, you know, I remember, for example,
thank you, so I’m just remembering now [chuckles], I remember a good example of that where after I’d
had tremendous success with my first few books and they’d been on the New York Times list and they’d
sold a ton of books and so, of course, you know, what’s your next goal? Well, when your next book comes
out, right, your goal needs to be another bestseller, of course. That would just sort of make sense. And I
remember going through the steps, doing the, you know, the treasure map about my life for that birthday
year and putting New York Times bestseller over a picture of the cover my book. Many of us have done
that. I think it’s smart to do that. But it didn’t happen. And it was disappointing. There were several
disappointments that would occur that year.
And, of course, when you’re in it, you can’t have divine perspective. You’ve got human perspective
and you’re just, and I remember thinking, there’s something wrong [chuckles]. I can remember thinking
this, Kate. Something’s broken about my goal-setting ability [chuckles], like I, there’s something off here.
I don’t have it like I used to, you know? My goal-setting mojo has gone away and I can’t find it anywhere.
Like what’s wrong? Because I had always been somebody who made stuff happen. I just knew how to
make things happen. And a big part of that was my goal setting and the writing it down and the treasure
mapping and holding the intention.
That was a really pivotal time in my life. I would say it was in my mid-40s where there was a
shift occurring that I didn’t understand, and I actually began to understand it with the guidance of great
coaching and counseling. The shift that was happening was from being a striver and a get-shit-done kind
of woman to being a receiver. There was more of the feminine being awakened in me. You know, I’m
talking about the masculine and the feminine from an archetypical standpoint and not from male and
female, you know, men and women.
But there was more of the feminine being born, and I was really being pushed inside. I was being
pushed to look at, who are you at this time in your life? What track are you on and is this the track that’s
really aligned with your soul versus the track that’s aligned with your head that you’re told you should
be on? And there was this shift, and it’s taken quite some time. The shift that was occurring that I think
naturally happens as we get older and we’re committed to our growth, our own personal spiritual evolution
and emotional healing, there was a shift that was occurring that was saying, girl, you have got to go, the

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next level of growth for you is to go from being a make-shit-happen woman to a woman who is like a
chalice, who can sit in stillness and wait to receive what’s next.
And that was a really important time in my life where it was becoming less important for me to set
the goals and intend for things to happen and instead begin to remove everything from my life that was
no longer aligned with what made me feel good and what was important to my self-care on a whole other
level but to remove all of that stuff and then sit, bravely sit in waiting, a lady in waiting, like a chalice,
allowing what was next to find me. That’s an advanced coaching conversation. It’s not something, I
don’t think it’s something that can easily be understood and practiced, quite frankly, until you get a little
older and you’ve had the experience of being the CEO woman as my husband and some of my close male
friends would call me, the CEO woman who gets stuff done, you know?
I’m now becoming the, I don’t know, I have to come up with a new, really the artist. I see myself
more as transitioning from CEO woman to artist who can sit in waiting and allow what’s next, what wants
to be birthed from my own creative juices, what wants to be birthed from that place to reveal itself.

NORTHRUP: That’s really beautiful. That’s really beautiful.

RICHARDSON: Thank you.

NORTHRUP: And I have not been at this as long as you, but I can really relate to that feeling right now,
so I appreciate you saying that.
Now, as you are out in the world doing things and, you know, you’ve been out there a lot, traveling,
writing books and, you know, for a while being this beacon, teaching self-care, really. And I love that.
And what I’d love to know is what do you do when you have gone over the line and you have become
burned out? Because so often with these goal-setting and action plans, I think, at least for those of us who
are achievement oriented, we can burn ourselves out and do too much.
So, what do you do to re-, I always hate to say rebalance but, you know [chuckles], to just--

RICHARDSON: Yeah. I know what you mean.

NORTHRUP: --get back to yourself and take a break, and how do you get yourself to do that?

RICHARDSON: It’s a good question, Kate, because, you know, I can’t tell you how many people will say
to me, oh, well, you’ve got it all figured out, you know? You’ve been writing about self-care for years and
so I know you know what you’re doing. It’s like, no, I’m a human being, too, in a body on planet Earth
and I still, to this day I teach what I learn as I go.

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And here’s what I’d say. You know, growth, you know you’re growing when the time it takes for
you to recognize you’re out of balance and to do something about it gets shorter and shorter and shorter.
Now, to recognize is an important phrase there because you may not be able to do something about it just
yet, but you see it and you make a plan.
So, the reason I say that is as somebody who has been teaching, you know, out on the circuit for a
long time, as you know, Kate, now, you’re learning this, you know, firsthand, that very often your schedule
is booked a year in advance. So I can be really over the line in January and have a full year in front of me.
Or I could be close to the line in January and know it and think, holy crap, what am I going to do? I’ve
got this whole year.
So it’s a little tricky in that regard. I would say that one of the very first things I now do when I
know I’m over the line is I look for support. And that support is usually in the form of a very, very wise
and experienced therapist or coach. You know, I practice what I teach, and that is, you know, don’t, if you
want to take the long road, try to figure things out yourself.
But when it comes to getting back on track, very often I’m looking for somebody older than me,
wiser than me, you know, someone who’s walked this path longer than I have, and somebody who’s got
a lot of experience and is committed to their own growth so that I can pick up the phone and call them,
whether it’s a therapist, you know, I mean, I did this almost a year ago when I knew I wanted my health to
be more of a priority, I knew that I had a full-on two years traveling with Louise, I was loving my work, I
was loving the book that we had written together, I was so honored to be able to go out and teach with her
and help to create an environment where people could come and see her again, and I knew I had stepped
over the line in terms of my health, in terms of the health of, you know, my body and my emotional self,
in terms of the health of my marriage because my poor husband was like, hi, bye, hi, bye, you know? And
sometimes he’d come with me but, you know, we spent three years building the house of our dreams and
he, like me, although he stayed here, was saying, I don’t really want to leave this beautiful place and this
life we’ve created.
So, when I knew that I as going to need to get things rebalanced again, one of the first things I did
was I contacted a coach that I really love and respect who’s been doing it a long time and she’s got wisdom
that’s far beyond me in a whole other area, and so I contacted her and scheduled a two-hour session to just
talk about what was going on. And I was introduced, you know, life brings you exactly what you need, to
this wonderful, wonderful therapist, and immediately started seeing her because, you know, Kate, you’ve
heard me say it, I wouldn’t be where I am today if I hadn’t worked with great therapists from, you know,
from the age of 19, so it’s been a long time.
And I immediately started reaching out for support, getting their guidance and putting plans in
place. And very often those plans are related to, okay, what needs to go and what stays? Where is, and
this is something I’ve learned so much from Louise, and let me preface this by saying, I’ve paid my dues

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a long time and I’ve taken good care of my health, my financial health, especially, which I think is critical
to women, that’s why I think your work is so important, Kate, because I had taken care of my financial
health, I was able to say, okay, if it doesn’t feel good, I’m not going to do it.
And that’s a brave standard that, listen, I couldn’t have had five years ago, 10 years ago, certainly
couldn’t have had it 20 years ago because you know what? There were things I had to do to take care of
myself that didn’t feel good, but they were okay, and I knew I had to do it, right? Like we work at a job
that’s okay and keeps us happy but we don’t love it. But, you know what? You’ve got to pay the bills, so
you’re there.
But today, I’m always moving in the direction of, if it doesn’t feel good, I don’t do it. And I would
say 80 percent of the time I make decisions really based on that. And that’s what I start doing when
I’ve stepped over the line is I pull back, I ask for help, I get a bigger perspective because when you’re
overwhelmed, you’re myopic. You’re just like, you’re focused on getting through what’s in front of you.
You can’t see the big picture, so you usually need other people to help you see the big picture and then
that’s how you start honing in on, you know, what areas you need to address to take better care of yourself.

NORTHRUP: Yeah. Love that. I love that. Now, on the vein of getting the support that you need and
reaching out for help, in your coaching and workshops and when you used to work with one-on-one
people, how much do you recommend people get like peer-to-peer support or accountability support to
say publicly, hey, you know, this is my resolution or this is my goal, and then have people hold them to it?
Do you think that that’s advisable or . . .

RICHARDSON: I do, but here’s how I would just, I would reposition that in our minds just a little bit, and
that is, we all think that if we just had a good kick in the ass, we’d finally get stuff done, you know? But
if a kick in the ass worked, we’d all be thin, happy, rich and healthy, right? It just doesn’t work.

NORTHRUP: Yeah.

RICHARDSON: So when you’re looking for support purely, and you used a really important phrase when
you said, you know, so you want to like go public, you want to publicly say what it is you’re committed
to, nine times out of 10, when we use that strategy, if I’m going to say out loud what it is I’m committed
to so that then I hold myself accountable, that’s actually just, you’re just like picking up a big stick nine
times out of 10. And remember, there’s that one out of 10 that it really works for, but nine times out of
10, people are setting themself up to shame themselves later on when they actually don’t follow through.
I know. I’ve done it. I’ve done it plenty of times.
We see this, for example, if we look at weight loss again, because on television, you know, we’ll
see people who will put themselves in position where publicly I’m going to lose all this weight and then

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they kind of, they lose all the weight, they do great, and then they kind of, you know, fall away into the
distant past, and they emerge, you know, three years later, heavier than they were when they started.
I think ongoing support is critical for you to surround yourself with people who will love you
toward your goal. Now I’ve been a huge advocate of support, as you know, Kate. That’s part of the
reason why the coaching profession took off 20 years ago because most of us at this point know what it
is we need to do to change our lives. It’s doing it that’s the problem. And the way that we do it is we put
ourselves into a situation where we have other people who are equally ready to take on the challenge of
improving their lives in some way, and they want to support other people in doing it while they do it. Is
there accountability in that? Absolutely.
But the accountability needs to come from, I’m so psyched, Kate, to come and see you this Friday
to tell you that I actually said no to, you know, an extra project at work because I said I wanted to take
better care of myself. Or, Jane, I’m so excited to come and see you to tell you that I paid off a credit card
and I just want to celebrate with somebody.
Do you know what I mean? It’s really about loving yourself towards the completion of a goal or
during the process of fulfilling an intention. I started life-makeover groups 15, 18 years ago. I used auto-
responders, people, you know, way back when technology was brand new, trying to help people find each
other in their local communities so they could sit down in a life-makeover group, go through some of the
process I wrote about in my books, and sometimes they didn’t even use my books at all, they just met
every single month or sometimes every week or sometimes every other week.
And the changes that happened in people’s lives, people who healed from serious illnesses, people
who got out of debt, who made lifelong soulful connections, to me, it’s the connection we make with
one another, the loving connection we make in support groups where, you know, you get to experience
a soulful connection with a kindred spirit, that’s the best part of all. And the byproduct is you finally get
your act together about accomplishing the things you want to accomplish.

NORTHRUP: Absolutely. I love that refrain. And it’s so true that if what we just needed was a kick in
the pants, you know, we’d all have exactly [chuckles], you know, be thin and be perfect with our finances
and all that stuff. And I think that that’s one of the huge things that’s been missing in the personal finance
industry is that love and compassion piece--

RICHARDSON: Yes.

NORTHRUP: --and that we’re really looking to celebrate our successes and be loved into our goals. I just
absolutely love that phrase that you said.

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RICHARDSON: Well, and I just want to say, I mean, I love that you titled your book Money: A Love
Story because like, who thinks that can happen, right? And then, as I was reading through your book,
I remember thinking, I really felt like you were like a best friend. You were like my gal pal who was
walking me through this journey, this very difficult journey for most people, because God knows we didn’t
get any training about money growing up. And, you know, you were walking me through this journey of,
like you were my buddy every step of the way. And I felt really supported and loved instead of beat up
and chastised for what I wasn’t doing. And we grow with love. We do not grow with criticism. Like that
I know for sure. That I know for sure.
But we criticize and we beat ourselves up and we kick ourselves in the pants because that’s what
our parents did. That’s what their parents did to them. They learned to do it to themselves. They did it to
us. We, you know, we embody those critical parental voices. And, you know, we need to stop this legacy
of kick yourself in the ass and you’ll get your resolutions completed because it never, it just doesn’t work.
And it’s really, it’s painful. It’s painful, too, I mean.

NORTHRUP: It absolutely is. Yeah. To beat ourselves up and, you know, if we’re in a community, like
say that our parents or friends or siblings or work community is not a community that supports positive
change and we have people, you know, say somebody is, you know, working on becoming healthier and
they have family members who are making fun of them about that or making them feel bad, how do
you recommend people navigate that territory if their immediate community is not actually loving and
supportive of them making positive change?

RICHARDSON: Yeah. Get out. Get out.

[Chuckling]

RICHARDSON: I mean, let me just say that right off the bat. Because like the image that comes to mind
for me is, if I were a smoker and I wanted to quit smoking and I invited four people into my office right
now, I’m looking at four chairs, and I put them all in four chairs and they lit up and started chain-smoking
and I was sitting here going, [exhales] I’m really, you know, I’m strong enough, I’m tough enough, I’m
not giving in, I’m not going to smoke. And there’s like, the room is just filling with smoke and they’re all
chatting away, doing whatever they do. I mean, listen, I used to smoke many years ago. I’m not judging
smokers. But I’m just saying, pay attention to that image.
Because when we look at life from an energetic perspective, that’s what’s going on. If you’re
somebody who really wants to get your finances in order and you’re hanging out with three girlfriends
that love to go charge up the wazoo and not pay, you know, are not able, is wazoo actually a word? I don’t
know [chuckles].

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NORTHRUP: I use it a lot, so I hope so.

[Chuckling]

RICHARDSON: Good, good. Charge up the wazoo and, you know, you go shopping with them all the
time, chances are, you’re not going to be influenced. You’re not giving yourself a chance to become the
kind of person, remember, we go back to the who, you’re not giving yourself a chance to become the kind
of person who practices restraint as an act of self-care.
So, when you have people in your life, now I’m not suggesting you wake up one morning and you
go, that’s it, I’m cutting everybody out, because relationships are the most important things to us on the
planet. It’s just not possible to do that. You may need to start by limiting your engagement with people.
And remember, the closer the people are to you, in other words, the closer you get to biology, the trickier
it becomes, the stronger the hooks are, the emotional hooks that keep you tethered to those people. You
may need to start limiting the amount of times you talk to your mom on the phone or the amount of times
you get together with your sister who isn’t ready to make her health a priority when you are.
And then, over time, you know, you may, just through the example that you set with the changes
that you make, kind of see how it lands with people. And if you still get teasing or criticism or, you know,
made fun of or whatever, then you start limiting it a little more. And then you may need to speak up with
something like, look, I love you and our relationship is important to me and I want you to know my health
is now a priority. And because of that, I really want to surround myself with positive thoughts around my
health. And every time you make fun of me, it’s not a positive thought, and I’d like to ask you to stop.
And then you let the silence sit there because too often, especially as women, we want to overexplain
our position. We want to, you know, we open the door to debate. We want to somehow justify our position.
None of that is required. The bottom line is I’d like to ask you to stop.
And let me just say this. Just because you share blood with somebody or somebody pushed you
out of their vagina, God bless them and thank them very much, does not give them the right, or offered
their sperm, let’s not leave the men out, you know, delivered their sperm, just because they did that does
not give them the right to take your dreams away nor does it make you obligated to hang in there when
everything inside of you screams get the hell out of Dodge.

NORTHRUP: Mm-hmm. Thank you for that permission. And I want to make sure that people heard you
say the pause after requesting support around and requesting that somebody not, you know, just impose
their negativity upon us and the pause that it’s not up for debate, that it’s really that is a statement and let
it hang.

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RICHARDSON: Yeah. And let me say it again because it’s great language that people can use because a
lot of times what prevents us from setting boundaries with people isn’t just that we’re scared or, you know,
we want people to like us, we don’t want to piss somebody off, it’s really we don’t have the language. This
is where coaching is incredibly valuable. We don’t have the language to set a boundary with grace and
love, so let me give you an example again. And I’m going to include the pause. So, when I pause, I’ll let
you know when I’m done, Kate, so that people can really experience the silence of it.
So, it’s going to be, “Mom, listen. I love you and our relationship is important to me. And I want
you to know that I’ve decided to make my health a priority. What that means is, every time I come to visit,
I would like to ask you to no longer insist that I eat all the food you make for me. I know you love me. I
know that you’re just trying to, you know, you’re showing your love in that way, but I’d like to ask you to
stop.” [Pause] And then, you let the silence stay as long as it needs to for your mom to say something.
“Well, well, gee, honey. You know, it’s just, I just want to make sure you eat enough because, you
know, I worry about you. You know, you get on this weight loss thing, and I’m just afraid before I know
it you’re going to be skin and bones.”
“Mom, I know you love me and, you know, our relationship is important to me. I’m making my
health a priority and trust me. I’m learning how to do that for myself. You no longer need to worry about
it.” [Pause] Silence again. You know, whatever, you just want to stick to the script. I mean, really that’s
what I say. Don’t get into, oh, well, mom, I know, listen, I love your food. You know, when you made me
those homemade chocolate chip cookies, like don’t get into that. Just, I love you, mom, our relationship
is important, here’s what I’m doing, I’d like to ask you to stop.
And you can use that with anybody. “Hey, Mary, you know what? Listen, I know I told you, I love
you, our relationship is important to me. I am committed to quitting smoking, and I’d like to ask you to
no longer smoke in my company. I’m willing to leave the room, by the way, I really am. I just want you
to know when we’re together, it’s not okay to smoke in my company.” [Pause] Silence. You let her, you
know, bring up the next . . .
And the truth is some relationships are going to have to end. Most relationships can grow and
evolve with the truth, but some of them are going to have to end, even temporarily, sometimes for good.

NORTHRUP: Yeah. That’s so great. And I don’t know if you’ve found this, Cheryl, but in my life, you
know, sometimes there are people in my life that I think I have a good idea for a goal for them.

[Chuckling]

NORTHRUP: And I have found--

RICHARDSON: Oh, I hate you right now [chuckles].

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NORTHRUP: You know, our friend Kris Carr says--

RICHARDSON: No, I’m kidding.

NORTHRUP: Our friend Kris Carr says, the only time you can change somebody else is when they’re in
diapers.

[Laughter]

NORTHRUP: Which I love.

RICHARDSON: I love that. I’ve not--

NORTHRUP: Right?

RICHARDSON: I’ve not heard her say that. I love you, Kris Carr. That’s great.

NORTHRUP: Oh, it’s so good, I know. She’s amazing. So, you know, if there are people in our life who
we wish would get on the wagon with us for our resolutions and our goals, maybe it’s our husband, we
want them to exercise with us or stop eating, you know, Peppermint Patties all the time or whatever, what
do we do then?

RICHARDSON: Well, you know, you’re going to have to be a grownup, which means you need to be
charge of your own growth and let other people be in charge of their own growth. I really do think being a
power of example of works. So, even if you have to tell yourself privately, use your inside voice, that I’m
going to, you know, I’m going to get in great shape and hope that the example that I set for my husband or
my wife or my friend or my sister or the, you know, the obese family member I’m concerned about, I’m
going to secretly, part of me is going to get in shape just to kind of be a power of example for them. That’s
fine as long as you use your inside voice.
But otherwise, you know, every single time, this is what I did in the beginning because God knows,
I mean, I went from making other people’s lives my priority to being a coach, where I got paid [chuckles]
to make other people’s lives my priority, which in some ways was really smart. But I also had to learn over
time that, you know, my life needed to be a priority. And one of the things I did was every time I caught
myself thinking or speaking about something someone else needed to do, I said to myself, Cheryl, pull
your energy back and ask yourself, what do you need to do for yourself right now?

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So, every time I would catch myself about to pick up the phone to call somebody who I knew
needed my support for whatever reason that day, I’d say, hey, what can you do to support yourself right
now? I would use it as a trigger, as a reminder. I often tell people, the last book that I wrote with Louise,
You Can Create an Exceptional Life, it’s this great little, it’s like a pocketbook, it’s . . . you can actually
read it in one day.
And I often say to people, buy the person you wish, you know, you hope for positive change with,
buy them a copy of that book, give it to them as a gift. If you live with them, put it on their nightstand
and then never say another word. Don’t ask them if they’ve read it. Don’t ask them, you know, what they
thought of this chapter or that page. Just give them the book and leave them alone.
Because there’s something about that book in particular. I think it’s the simplicity of Louise’s
message and I think it’s the mentoring relationship that she and I experienced, interestingly enough a
two-way mentoring relationship, although to me it was much more I the mentee, she the mentor, there’s
something about that relationship that seems to really speak to people who aren’t on the path of, you know,
just improving their emotional, physical or spiritual health. It kind of gets them on the path.
So, sometimes you can offer people, you can extend your hand, offer support, there’s nothing
wrong with that. Just don’t do it again. Like let them receive your invitation instead of trying to not shove
it down their throat but, you know, gently pry their lips open and get the spoon in there. Don’t do that.
It just doesn’t work. As a matter of fact, my husband would tell you, it just makes him go further in the
opposite direction. And you know what? He’s right. He’s right.

NORTHRUP: It’s so true. That is so true. Now, when you and I spoke to prepare this chat we’re having
now, you talked a little bit about just being kind of bored with the whole conversation about resolutions,
and you touched on that earlier in the conversation. So I’d love to know, I think we’ve touched on it a
few times but just to really bring that home, what sort of annoys you [chuckles] about the goal-setting-
resolution culture and what would you like to see instead?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think that, it’s so funny, I mean, let me just say that, you know, I started this
interview by sort of giving an overview of my process because I am growing up. And when I look back, I
think it was so important, like I said, to set all of the goals that I set. If anything, looking back with wise
eyes, if anything, to really connect me with wanting, giving myself permission to want. I think that’s a
very important conversation.
So, when I say, oh, I’m kind of bored with this, I just feel like every damn New Year’s it’s like we
set everybody up with this expectation. We do it in the media, quite frankly, where, okay, now’s the time
you’ve got to get your act together. You just pigged out over the holidays or you’re just, you know, it’s
like this giant finger pointing, like you just had some time off, you just kind of screwed off for a month

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or so or you, you know, and I say, what’s wrong with that? I mean, I think we need more pleasure in life.
We need more joy. I think growth needs to be joyful. It needs to not be suffering. And there’s something
about the whole setting resolutions and goals at the beginning of the year that sets us up to suffer and to
work hard and, you know, to just have that kind of feeling of drudgery.
That’s why I started doing the intention setting or the goal setting on my birthday, just the intentions.
You know, I don’t know, there was something about intentions for me. What are the things that are most
important to me? The interesting thing is as I get older my intentions get fewer and fewer. Like they used to
be 10. Now there may be three. And if those three are covered, man, my life is humming along just fine.
There was something else I wanted to say about that. Hold on, because I’m going to just call it
back to me. There was something important, oh, yeah, this was it. And, you know, I guess I just want to
say to everybody listening, take what I’m saying with a grain of salt because I’ve always been a bit of a
rebel, and if everybody’s going left, I’m just going right. So, you know, it’s just a part of my quirky nature
[chuckles], which means sometimes it’s good to ignore what I’m saying because--

[Chuckling]

RICHARDSON: --you know, I just, when I said, oh, God, I’m so bored with goal setting and resolutions,
they have a place in our path of development. I just, when everybody’s doing it, I just am, I like want to
do something different because and, you know, listen, to my credit I will say that’s a big part of why I’ve
been so successful in my life is because I do think of myself as an original thinker and I do like to, that
doesn’t mean anything I say is new because I don’t think that anything is new, quite frankly, but it does
mean that when I’ve gone right instead of left, it’s actually helped me to reach people in new and different
ways. And I think that’s, you know, that’s something I love about myself, so.

NORTHRUP: Mm-hmm. And I love that about you, too.

RICHARDSON: Well, thank you. Thank you [chuckles].

NORTHRUP: You know, and one of those things is that it’s not that you, I mean, I’m going to suppose that
it’s not that you have gone left because everybody’s going right, it’s that you’ve gone left because that’s
what your inner calling is to do. Am I right?

RICHARDSON: Yeah. Well--

NORTHRUP: Am I correct, I should say?

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[Chuckles]

RICHARDSON: No, you’re left. No. Yes, I think that that’s a really gracious and lovely thing for you
to say. And sometimes it is true that my inner gut says to go right, but I’ll tell you, my gut has also been
strengthened and fed by my natural, my true sort of head desire to go left when people are going right. I
mean, I think it’s a bit of both. And I think the older I get now, absolutely.
You know, like I’m interested in depth. I want deep conversations. I don’t want to know about the
new car you want. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I’m happy for you. I hope you get the new
car. But I want to know what’s underneath that, like where are you at in your life right now? Who are
you? How do you need to grow? Like what’s the deeper yearning within you that you don’t speak about
because you’re shy about it or embarrassed or you feel like you don’t deserve it?
Like I’m just, I’ve always been somebody who likes to, you know, especially privately, just dig
deep. And now I’m just sort of doing that more in my outer life. It’s like, I don’t want to waste my time
with superficial conversations, because you know what? Chances are I have a lot less time left than you
do, Kate, or than a lot of the people who I’m teaching. So I want to make sure I’m using it wisely.

NORTHRUP: I love that. So I’d love to end actually by asking you, then, what is, you know, as much as
you want to share here in this [chuckles] public forum, what is deep below the surface for you and what
are you yearning for right now and what’s that area of growth that you’re excited about?

RICHARDSON: Well, it’s so interesting. I mean, I have to say, I can’t answer that question without
bringing your mom into the conversation. I hope that’s okay. Because--

NORTHRUP: I love my mom.

RICHARDSON: I know you do. I know you do. And I love her, too. And, you know, I think about her a lot
because she has been such a mentor for me and she’s been so influential in my own growth. And, at this point
in my life, as I’m moving out of perimenopause into the menopause phase, you know, and she’s written this
amazing book about the wisdom of menopause that I think every woman needs to, every man and woman,
actually, needs to read it, I think about her a lot because you know how she always talks about when a woman
goes through perimenopause into the menopausal years, she’ll often go back and revisit and need to deal with
anything from her adolescence that wasn’t dealt with. And that also at that time, what often will reveal itself
are the things that the young girl was passionate about that got swept under the rug.
And I feel like I’ve just been so living that over the last couple of years. And this last year in
particular, sort of coming through that phase of dropping deep down into an empty well, going, what the

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hell is going on and where am I headed and who am I at this time in my life and what’s important to me?
And quite frankly, you know, probably eight or nine months ago, interestingly enough, I would say that
eight or nine months ago feeling like, oh, my gosh, I don’t know, maybe I got nothing left here, you know?
Maybe I’m done. I’ve completed this phase of my life.
But I hung in there. And again, with really great support, I hung in there and began exploring on
a deeper level the patterns of my life that were created in my very young years to keep me safe and well-
behaved and how they needed to be released.
And here I am, eight or nine months later, feeling like I have now entered, and I never thought
I would’ve said this, Kate, now entered one of the most creative periods of my life where I have, I’m
working on a movie, I’m working on a new book that I’m very excited about. Finally over the summer
I was working on two books, going, let’s see which one wants to win, and neither one won. A third one
emerged from it. And I’m loving the writing process. I started taking singing lessons, something I loved
as a young girl.

NORTHRUP: Oh, wow.

RICHARDSON: Yes. I loved it as a young girl. I mean, not a lot of people know this, although I say it
publicly, that when I graduated from high school, I really wanted to go to Berklee School of Music [sic].
And for the longest time I said, okay, Cheryl, you know, you’re in your 50s now, what the hell are you
going to do with singing? There’s no point in pursuing it. You see, that’s the CEO woman, right, the old
striving, well, you can’t do something you love if there’s not a goal attached to it, right?
I just decided singing wouldn’t let me go. And so I opened to the possibility of doing something
with it, and lo and behold, what happens? This amazing singing teacher, this vocal coach, shows up in my
life as a referral from a dear friend, and I go to my first lesson and I leave the lesson sobbing in my car all
the way home because it was like the young girl in me said, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for
paying attention and bringing me here. And I’ve been going back ever since.
And, you know, for the first, I don’t know, 10, 15 lessons, I had to make myself go every single
time, like I fought myself [chuckles] every step of the way. And I would show up, because I was scared
to death, I mean, just scared. It’s a pretty brave thing to sing. And I would go there, and this guy was just
fabulous. And I would leave like a giddy high school girl, like I would just leave smiling ear to ear in the
car. And now I really look forward to it. As a matter of fact, I’m going to a lesson right after this interview.
So I’m giving myself permission to, I see myself as I see all of us, by the way, as artists and healers,
and we all have this huge well of creativity, and I think we’ve come here to express that. And I’m now
looking at multiple ways of expressing my creativity, designing, you know, I took my office. I completely
got rid of a traditional office with a desk and filing cabinets. It’s gone. I made my office into a French

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salon. And I have a giant French antique armoire that serves as my office space with everything in it so
that it closes up. And instead, I’ve got this great French salon where I can lounge around and invite people
in and it’s just, it was all about designing and beauty. And I’m designing clothes for myself.
And it’s just, it’s this wonderful fruitful time that if I had talked to you eight months ago, I would
have said, I think I’m done, girl. And today, you know, I thank your mother for leading the way and
sort of naming the path because I stayed with this process of letting go and of being brave enough to sit
with the nothingness long enough, far longer than I felt comfortable with or that felt right, to sit with
that nothingness long enough to allow that chalice to be filled with purely joyful, pleasurable, sensual,
wonderful things. And that’s what I want for everybody, especially you, Kate.

[Chuckling]

NORTHRUP: Thank you and amen to everything you just said and everything you said on this call. I feel
deeply nourished. So, thank you, Cheryl.

RICHARDSON: You’re so welcome. Thank you, Kate.

NORTHRUP: I’m just really grateful we got to have this conversation. So please do connect with Cheryl
at cherylrichardson.com and on Facebook. She posts fabulous things there [chuckles].

RICHARDSON: Thank you, thank you.

NORTHRUP: And thank you, Cheryl. Have a beautiful singing lesson.

RICHARDSON: Aw, thanks, Kate. You, too. Have a wonderful day and thanks so much for this great
conversation. I feel really nourished by it, too.

[Closing music]

ANNOUNCER: Thank you for joining us for the 2014 Start the New YOU Now Ultimate Webinar.
We hope that you discovered ways to start making positive and lasting change in your life now. We are
grateful you chose to include us in your journey.

[End of session – 58:39 in length]

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