SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-title-ii-34/20540-sbrd-ar15-brief-guid...

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SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience Password

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March 31st, 2008 #1 (permalink)

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ithinkimamedic Age: 27
Grand Member Posts: 1,380
Rep Power: 124

SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

So I decided I wanted to build a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) on the AR platform. After doing a bunch of research,
reading a metric ass ton of information and asking plenty of questions I finally figured out everything I needed to do.
This is/was the first Form 1 I had done. So far to date I’ve done 3 Form 4’s so I have an idea how things need to be
filled in and what needs to be sent in but it is not so clear if you have never done this before. With that all in mind I
have decided to help document my SBR adventure and hopefully will be able to help everyone else out who is
hesitant to do it but is scared of the paperwork. I will preface this with the following. If you didn’t understand what I
was talking about or know what a SBR is you should stop now and read over 2 of the following links before you start
to ask questions.

First one is Quick FAQS related to Machine Guns and Suppressors...

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and the second one is READ FIRST - Process to acquire/make NFA items in Pennsylvania by JayBell .

If you have read those and understand everything proceed, if not click the links and educate yourself.

Well to start off I needed to figure out if I was going to SBR an AR15 that I already had or if I was going to start from
scratch. I decided to start from scratch for my build. Picking the receiver is a very personal thing so I’m not going to
touch much on that other than make sure you get one that your willing to keep for potentially a long time. I picked
one of the Anvil Arms AA15 “PAFOA” receivers for my build. Back to the receiver shortly.

Now there are a number of paperwork item that you need to acquire to be able to do this. I ordered them for free
from the BAFTE’s website. Link here http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

You will need the following Forms.

2 - F 1 (5320.1) - Application to Make and Register a Firearm
1 - F 5330.20 - Certificate of Compliance With 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B)

Also fingerprint cards

2 - FBI FD-258LE - NFA, Imports ORI WVATF0100

With those items off the check list you will also need the following.
2 – Recent Photographs (Passport style) 2”x2”
1 – Personal Check for $200 Made out to BAFTE – Dept of Treasury
1 – Envelope to mail everything – I use a large 8.5x11 envelope to keep everything flat.

Lastly you will have to either engrave your receiver or barrel marking them with the builder information. Read this
for details about the required markings.

Current ATF Marking requirements for NFA Items...

So now that we know the requirements for marking the receivers I decided to have my information (Name on line
one, town and state on line two) marked on the right side of my receiver above the trigger group. I had my work
done before it came to my FFL just to make things easier on my end. It was done by Charles Smyder (FFL/SOT) in
Alachua FL and cost me a total of $35 to have it shipped to him from Anvil Arms, engraved and then shipped to my
FFL. There are a couple of other places that do engraving and I’ll update this as I hear from other companies doing
good work.

http://www.orion-arms.com/new/

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Now back to the paperwork at hand.

When I got the package from the BAFTE it looked like this (minus the writing on the envelope) (bonus points to
anyone who can identify the phone number written on the envelope too!)

There was a check list to make sure they sent all your forms as well as re-order form for additional forms (snail mail
form). When I ordered I got a bunch of forms that I figured I would need for the next year or so.

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Your Form 1 form should look like the following on the front

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The Form 1 should look like this on the back

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It come with 2 forms attached and one page (front and back) of instructions which are as follows

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You should also have your F5330.20 Certificate of compliance with U.S.C. 922 (g) (5) (B) which will be referred to as
the citizenship form by me from here out. It should look like this and it MUST be a full size page

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You will also receive your finger print cards and will need to get finger printed or do it yourself. I got mine done by a
friend who is a cop, we did them on a digital machine and he loaded the machine up with all of my fingerprint cards I
had at the time (3 sets) and only had to print me once which was much nicer than getting inked over and over again!

Here’s a pic of the paperwork you should have from the BAFTE so far

So for the form 1 here’s a run down of required information if you are filling the form as an individual (sorry I’m not
familiar with the trust or corp route). I will also make note that I the images of the form are as printed from
www.titleii.com from their html to pdf form one. They have a lot of good information and I would have just used their
forms instead of waiting for the atf to mail me the forms but I have read more than one account of Form 1’s being
rejected because when you print out the F1 from the PDF it does NOT have the approval / disapproval blocks on the
front page, they are on the top of the second page. Apparently they do not find this acceptable. I will update
this/change this information as I hear/read more info and the issue is resolved.

Back to the task at hand

Box 1. Type of application – check box a “tax paid” since you aren’t the gov or building for them.
Box 2. Application is made by - in my case individual so that’s what’s checked
Box 3a would be your trade name
Box 3b is your information - Name, address
Box 3c a street address if you use a PO Box
Box 3d your county
Box 3e your phone number

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Box 4a. Name and location of org man. – in my case Anvil Arms, Lakeland FL USA
Box 4b. Type of firearm - Short Barrel Rife
I’ll jump to Box 4h which is the “additional description” basically your mark made as noted above I had engraved My
name on line one, then city/state on line two, that’s exactly how I wrote it.

Box 4c - Caliber - I put in mine the following (.22lr, 9mm, 5.56mm). This seems to be a relative point of contention
amongst the internet. Some say they have gotten away with listing “Multi” some say they have been rejected with
that and had to change it. This is what I have gone with and will update when more information becomes available.
Box 4d. Model – what ever the manuf. Calls your model, in my case AA15
Box 4e. Barrel length – Again another point of contention at times. It is generally accepted that you should mark this
as the length that you primarily will use though other can be switched onto it with out filing a new form. If you are
making a permanent change to the barrel length then you can send a letter to BAFTE noting the change on the form

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and you’re good.

Box 4f. Overall length – if there is a collapsible stock this should be OPEN when measuring
Box 4g. Serial number – this should be the Manuf. marked SN, if your making from scratch then this is the SN you
put in it.
Box 4i. Why are you making this item. I put all lawful purposes

If your not a FFL / SOT ignore blocks 5 and 6.

Go through and answer all of the questions for 7 and 8 then sign block 9. and date block 11.

Next you have to flip the form over and in box 12. you “affix recent photograph here” I use tape on 4 sides. Is it over
kill, maybe, do I care. No.

Section 13 is the CLEO signature part (required for doing the individual route) If this is your first time getting forms
done from your CLEO don’t fill in anything other than your name, just let them write everything in. From filling out
Form 4’s in the past my Sheriff said he appreciates that I filled in the appropriate information and saved him the time
so I did it on my Form 1 too. Do this at your own risk.

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You will then need to fill out your Citizenship form. It’s easy and fast and quite frankly kinda silly but with out it your
not going to get approved forms. Fill out blocks 1 AND 2 (or it will get kicked back!) Blocks 3 and follow the rest of
the instructions as noted on the form. Sign it, date it and put it in the stack of papers.

Now you should have everything you need to send in but I will place a list bellow to double check.

BAFTE Form 1 – Two (2) copies complete with photo’s attached and signatures on BOTH forms
“Citizenship Form” 1 completed and signed.
Fingerprint cards filled out completely – 2 cards
Personal Check for $200

ETA: Form 1's get mailed to Martinsburg and Form 4's get mailed to Atlanta.

Drop those all into the envelope, make sure you have the CORRECT address in Martinsburg

NFA Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg WV
25401

Atlanta will work, It will just be slower.

BAFTE
NFA BRANCH
P.O. BOX 530298
ATLANTA, GA 30353-0298

Mail it away and start the waiting game! Dream of the uppers and different calibers you want to use, buy magazines,
ammo and all the stuff you don’t need but want anyways! After a couple of weeks/months you will get a letter in the
mail saying you are approved and One (1) of the Form 1’s will come back with the little $200 stamp on it! Do the
happy dance and the photocopy the original and put it in a safe place!!! Then get to it in making that SBR and
shooting the hell out of it!!! Good job slugger you made it through a BAFTE Form 1 Manufacturing of a S.B.R.!

As stated many times above this will be updated periodically as more information comes to light or things change.

XD45 this is for you.

Cheers all!
Josh
__________________

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SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-title-ii-34/20540-sbrd-ar15-brief-guid...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Buy a silencer.

Tax: $200
Cost of effective 5.56 suppressor: $500
Letting the elderly neighbors sleep in until morning: Priceless.

"132 and Bush I've got him at gun point, OK gun point, 132 and bush, cover is code 3"

My first sticky! SBR YOUR AR

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Last edited by ithinkimamedic; April 10th, 2008 at 05:58 AM. Reason: All the photos are back up now 4/10/08

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April 1st, 2008 #2 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2007

Location:
Middleburg, Pennsylvania
Zef_66 (Snyder County)
Grand Member Posts: 1,333
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Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

Excellant josh! Great resource that I bookmarked for future use! Fantastic!
__________________
~ Derek
"They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger?
Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed...?" Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

April 1st, 2008 #3 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2007

Location:
Northampton County, Pennsylvania
Stack (Northampton County)
Banned Age: 39
Posts: 366
Rep Power: 0

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

Great write up ... Thank you!

I thought OAL was measured with stock open .. this is what I have been told several times.

I always hear conflicting reports on this. Anyone know of an official ruling on this?

Again - great job!!

#4 (permalink)

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April 1st, 2008

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location:
Private, Pennsylvania
JayBell (Montgomery County)
Posts: 2,794
Super Moderator
Rep Power: 683

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

Overall length IS measured with the stock open, under federal law, from Bardwells NFA FAQ:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wb...st/nfa_faq.txt

A short barreled rifle is a rifle (which is defined as a shoulder

fired, rifled bore firearm) with a barrel length of less than 16",
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
rifle falling into the same length parameters (like a pistol made
from a rifle). In measuring barrel length you do it from the
closed breech to the muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure
overall length do so along, "the distance between the extreme ends
of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of
the bore." 27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you
measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily
detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.

also, the current address for NFA firearms involving FORM 1s are going to the Martinsburg WV address, Not Atlanta,
but no worries, it may take a little longer, but it will end up in the right place eventually

I verified this address on Subguns, as I just filled out my F1s for a SBR myself.

Also my F1 have the Martinsburg address on them(as do yours, how'd ya miss that?!?!)..it has been reported that the
Distribution center was sending old F1s out with the old address, but nothing concrete, yopurs DO have the proper
address on the top of the first page.

NFA Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg WV
25401

Also, if you already have print cards, you can download forms from Danbrews PDF site at http://www.titleii.com
he has a cool online PDF generator for form 1s, just fill out the fields, and it generates a filled out PDF FOR you.
__________________
Flectere si nequeo Superos, Acheronta movebo."
—Virgil

"Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

Last edited by JayBell; April 1st, 2008 at 06:39 PM.

April 1st, 2008 #5 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2007

Location:
Northampton County, Pennsylvania
Stack (Northampton County)
Banned Age: 39
Posts: 366
Rep Power: 0

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

Excellent - my forms went out okay then.. phew Just had a certificate of compliance kicked back for the dopey line
2 issue and wasn't looking forward to a second potential issue.

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Thanks JayBell!

Oh - and am I the only one who noticed the 867-5309 reference???

April 1st, 2008 #6 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2007

Location:
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
XD45 (Allegheny County)
Grand Member Posts: 3,538
Rep Power: 396

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

i meet with my CLEO at 2pm tomorrow to get my form1's signed.

Thanks for this Mr. medic

April 1st, 2008 #7 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2006

Location:
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(Centre County)
ithinkimamedic Age: 27
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Rep Power: 124

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

Thanks Jay for the Info.. I will update the first with the correct info.

For an Uzi SBR with a qd woodstock the OAL would then be measured with the stock off correct? That would also
indicated that with a folding stock that it should be entended?
__________________
Quote:

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Buy a silencer.

Tax: $200
Cost of effective 5.56 suppressor: $500
Letting the elderly neighbors sleep in until morning: Priceless.

"132 and Bush I've got him at gun point, OK gun point, 132 and bush, cover is code 3"

My first sticky! SBR YOUR AR

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

April 1st, 2008 #8 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location:
Private, Pennsylvania
JayBell (Montgomery County)
Posts: 2,794
Super Moderator
Rep Power: 683

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

15 of 17 3/13/2010 10:02 PM
SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-title-ii-34/20540-sbrd-ar15-brief-guid...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithinkimamedic

Thanks Jay for the Info.. I will update the first with the correct info.

For an Uzi SBR with a qd woodstock the OAL would then be measured with the stock off correct? That would
also indicated that with a folding stock that it should be entended?

that would probably be right as indicated by the regs further up.

__________________
Flectere si nequeo Superos, Acheronta movebo."
—Virgil

"Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

April 2nd, 2008 #9 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2007

Location:
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
XD45 (Allegheny County)
Grand Member Posts: 3,538
Rep Power: 396

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

Got my first forms signed by my cleo The wait begins

April 2nd, 2008 #10 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location:
Private, Pennsylvania
JayBell (Montgomery County)
Posts: 2,794
Super Moderator
Rep Power: 683

Re: SBR'd AR15 - a brief guide and my experience

watch for the cancelled check to be returned, then wait a week and call to make sure its in the system.

Photocopy your signed forms as proof, and keep a copy in case the paperwork is lost, it DOES happen.

I have a Form 4 thats a tax stamped copy of a photocopy of the original signed form, as they had "lost" the
forms..luckily my dealer is conscientious and photocopied all forms he sent out, as he'd had issues before.

as a note, print a copy of the cancelled check as proof the tax was paid, i had a transfer hang as they swore I hadn't
paid. I had a photocopy of the cancelled check notarized and sent to them as proof.

ATF makes mistakes, I have a AOW Form 4 with a blue $200 tax stamp on it, instead of the $5 Red AOW one.

this was all the old DC staff that was a buncha idiots, the WV group is good.
__________________
Flectere si nequeo Superos, Acheronta movebo."
—Virgil

"Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

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