Rec.music.makers.

synth
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Subject: Re: Technics WSA1
From: paul@softroom.demon.co.uk (Paul Nagle)
Date: 1997/04/04
Message-Id: <334eb911.251962741@news.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
chickensax@aol.com (ChickenSax) wrote:
>I just bought the WSA1. They don't make them like this anymore. It is like
>Bentley of keyboards. Awsome. What a unique and clear sound. 64 voices of
>acustic modeling. Any news about sound expansion? Is it user upgradable?
Hmmm, it sounded to me like a synth based on PCM technology. All the
modelling I could hear appeared to be as a result of the filter
characteristics. Not that there's anything wrong with this. It sounds
great, the ball thing is cool and the screen marvellous. At current
discount prices, worth having....
My guess is there won't be much in the way of expansion because few
people bought them.
Paul
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Paul Nagle - paul@softroom.demon.co.uk
http://www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 26/03/97)

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Subject: Re: Technics WSA1
From: g.j.stockham@dundee.ac.uk (Geoff Stockham)
Date: 1997/04/18
Message-Id: <861355865.26637@dejanews.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
[More Headers]
In article ,
paul@softroom.demon.co.uk (Paul Nagle) wrote:
>
> chickensax@aol.com (ChickenSax) wrote:
>
> >I just bought the WSA1. They don't make them like this anymore. It is like
> >Bentley of keyboards. Awsome. What a unique and clear sound. 64 voices of
> >acustic modeling. Any news about sound expansion? Is it user upgradable?
> Hmmm, it sounded to me like a synth based on PCM technology. All the
> modelling I could hear appeared to be as a result of the filter
> characteristics. Not that there's anything wrong with this. It sounds
> great, the ball thing is cool and the screen marvellous. At current
> discount prices, worth having....
> My guess is there won't be much in the way of expansion because few
> people bought them.
> Paul
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> Paul Nagle - paul@softroom.demon.co.uk
> http://www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 26/03/97)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Bit of a delay in replying - we don't get rec groups so I had to go via
dejanews. The WSA1 does exactly what it says - Acoustic Modelling, so it
models the acoustic properties of the resonator etc, but not the driver.
You can model parameters such as the position the driver interacts (such
as where on a string it is plucked) but not the driver itself. Some
people have commented that this isn't modelling, but if it gives me such
a powerful synth with such flexible editing and performance controls at
such a bargain price I don't care what you call it!
As for upgrades, I've heard that the extra output board and the ROM
expansion are unavailable (but do exist) but I haven't tried myself. If
I do find anything, I'll mention it on my website
(http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~gjstockh/) which incidentally has a few disks
of WSA stuff on it already....
Geoff
P.S. Is this the Paul Nagle who writes for Sound on Sound? It was from
their reviews that I was persuaded to buy the synth, and I haven't been
disappointed (yet...).
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------

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Subject: Re: Technics WSA1
From: jon@durge.org (Jon)
Date: 1997/04/19
Message-Id: <5jbdvi$hp8$1@fof.durge.org>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
[More Headers]
Geoff Stockham (g.j.stockham@dundee.ac.uk) wrote:
: As for upgrades, I've heard that the extra output board and the ROM
: expansion are unavailable (but do exist) but I haven't tried myself. If
: I do find anything, I'll mention it on my website
: (http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~gjstockh/) which incidentally has a few disks
: of WSA stuff on it already....
:
The expansions are unavailable? Oh dear. I was hoping to buy one of those
at some time when I had the money. I was after the ROM expansion board.
To add to all this, the modelling parameters are nothing like filters, to
my ears. Totally different, and they ARE supposed to be mathematical
algorithms programmed into DSP chips, not glorified EQ.
If anyone knows of any shops that do these upgrades, do let me know, or
get Geoff to stick it on his page (which I found rather good, as it
happens).
Jon
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jon@durge.org
http://www.durge.org/~jon
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Subject: Re: Technics WSA1
From: Robert Aries <robaries@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 1997/04/20
Message-Id: <335A2F13.5CEC@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
[More Headers]
Jon wrote:
>
> Geoff Stockham (g.j.stockham@dundee.ac.uk) wrote:
>
> : As for upgrades, I've heard that the extra output board and the ROM
> : expansion are unavailable (but do exist) but I haven't tried myself. If
> : I do find anything, I'll mention it on my website
> : (http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~gjstockh/) which incidentally has a few disks
> : of WSA stuff on it already....
> :
>
> The expansions are unavailable? Oh dear. I was hoping to buy one of those
> at some time when I had the money. I was after the ROM expansion board.
> To add to all this, the modelling parameters are nothing like filters, to
> my ears. Totally different, and they ARE supposed to be mathematical
> algorithms programmed into DSP chips, not glorified EQ.
> If anyone knows of any shops that do these upgrades, do let me know, or
> get Geoff to stick it on his page (which I found rather good, as it
> happens).
I hate to dissapoint you, but the modeling is done with filtering.
However, many people make the mistake of associating "filtering" with
"EQ". This is certainly true in the analog domain, but digital
filtering is really just some heavy number-crunching; with the correct
algorithms, you can do a hell of a lot more than "cut the highs" or
"boost the lows". While I don't know the exact details of the WSA's
implementation, I believe the filtering is something like 128 bands,
individually changeable, all in real time, on up to 64 simultaneous
voices--pretty serious DSP.
As a further point, if you think about what "resonance" is, you'll see
that a digital filter is a good tool for the job. The body of an
instrument takes the basic sound waves produced by the string, reed,
mouthpiece, etc., then emphasizes and cuts certain frequencies to arrive
at the basic tone of the instrument.
Rob Aries

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From jon@durge.org Mon Apr 21 00:34:39 1997
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Technics WSA1
From: jon@durge.org (Jon)
Date: 20 Apr 1997 23:34:39 GMT
Robert Aries (robaries@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
[snipped stuff about filters etc.]
: As a further point, if you think about what "resonance" is, you'll see
: that a digital filter is a good tool for the job. The body of an
: instrument takes the basic sound waves produced by the string, reed,
: mouthpiece, etc., then emphasizes and cuts certain frequencies to arrive
: at the basic tone of the instrument.
:
Just to say what I wroe to Rob - I am sure that either the filters used
are special ie. weird or they use other DSP functions than simple resonant
filters because the piano string sample played without a resonator is
quiet and through the resonator it becomes a lot louder. This is obviously
the recreation of the piano casing amplifying some frequencies and
attenuuating others, but filters are attenuators only, if not resonant. So
either the filters are resonant all over the place, boosintg frequencies
here and there, or in large bands, or they are standard ones, with some
extra DSP functions used. I imagine the former to be correct, with
obivously very sharply defined resonant peaks - a low Q filter, if memory
serves (it better do or else I look like an idiot).
Just to say that if this machine were monophonic, like a Korg Prophecy,
it would have the power to use 128*64 bands in filtering - a whopping 8192
bands which works out at about u6 Hz per band (the filters go up to 48 Khz
in the sound editor). Now that is extremely accuarate, and I wager this
synth is one of the most powerful on the market today.
If anyone actaully knows exactly what the machine does (in technical
terms) maybe they could let us (or me) know.
Cheers
Jon
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jon@durge.org
http://www.durge.org/~jon
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From ian@five-d.com Mon Apr 21 18:52:04 1997
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Technics WSA1
From: ian@five-d.com (Ian Kemmish)
Date: 21 Apr 1997 17:52:04 GMT
In article <335A2F13.5CEC@ix.netcom.com>, robaries@ix.netcom.com says...
>
>"boost the lows". While I don't know the exact details of the WSA's
>implementation, I believe the filtering is something like 128 bands,
>individually changeable, all in real time, on up to 64 simultaneous
>voices--pretty serious DSP.
That sounds like a lot of overkill for what you actually get. It sounds like
it's really just a damped (sometimes severely damped) resonator, one (or
possibly two, though they are not fully independent) for each tone generator
(so there's four of them per voice) although the four can be linked to drive
each other for interesting but generally unmusical effects.
By playing with the `fitting' parameter, you can choose between a sound with
not much resonant formant shaping and a reasonable percussive attack, or a
sound with a lot of resonant formant shaping that's all but useless because it
has an attack of a second or longer.... Other parameters are similar, in that
most of them seem to suffer from the problem that they have almost no effect
over 90% of their range, and behave in unpredictable ways over the remaining
10%.
This suggests that not much effort went into deciding what the resonators
should model. I suspect the core is basically just a difference equation
modelling a damped oscillator, driven by the PCM wave input. Hardly
sophisticated, and hardly requiring much hardware. (Open the top and you'll
see one DSP each for the three effects units, but only one ASIC for the entire
rest of the machine - I think this says a lto about the horsepower it has
available to deploy on modelling!)
Even less effort seems to have gone into translating the parameter names into
English, which makes life even harder:-).

On the other hand, the ``ordinary'' VCFs that come downstream of all this, are
really pretty good. They whistle nicely if you turn the resonance up, and also
feature a swept EQ half, so you can have LPF + HPF, LPF + LPF, LPF + EQ etc.
============================================================================
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ian@five-d.com Tel: +44 1767 601 361 Fax: +44 1767 312 006
Info on Jaws and 5D's other products on http://www.five-d.com/5d
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`Save string while you're young. Then when you're older, you'll have a ball.'