18 June 2020.

Trump Talks Juneteenth, John Bolton, Economy in WSJ Interview

President says that U.S. is nearing end of coronavirus pandemic and that he believed
China might have encouraged spread of Covid-19 to destabilize competing economies
Michael C. Bender
WASHINGTON—President Trump said that there was some systemic racism in the U.S. and that removing
Confederate names from military bases would further divide the country, and took credit for
popularizing Juneteenth , the commemoration of the end of slavery.
In an interview on Wednesday in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump mounted a broad defense of his handling of the
dual crises affecting the country in the year of his re-election bid: the coronavirus pandemic and the wave of
protests following the killing of George Floyd , a black man, in Minneapolis police custody.
Mr. Trump expressed interest in rooting out racism in America and said his plan to heal the country's racial
wounds exposed by the killing of Mr. Floyd and other high-profile cases of alleged police brutality was to
build a strong economy. He expressed cautious optimism that any structural racism that exists in America's
economic and criminal-justice systems is getting better.
"I'd like to think there is not" systemic racism, Mr. Trump said, "but unfortunately, there probably is some. I
would also say it's very substantially less than it used to be."
He said that the country was nearing the end of the coronavirus pandemic and that he believed China might
have encouraged the international spread of coronavirus as a way to destabilize competing economies.
"There's a chance it was intentional," Mr. Trump said. The president and some international critics have said
China should have moved more quickly to contain the coronavirus in December and January. Beijing has
defended its response and denied it concealed the extent of the spread.
The seven-day average of daily new coronavirus cases in the U.S. was about 22,600, according to Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention data through Tuesday. Anthony Fauci, the U.S. government's top infectious-
disease expert, told The Wall Street Journal earlier this week that the country is still in the first wave of the
pandemic.
Mr. Trump said testing for Covid-19 was overrated and allowed for the possibility that some Americans wore
facial coverings not as a preventive measure but as a way to signal disapproval of him. Many public-health
experts say testing followed by quarantining sick individuals and their close contacts is crucial to contain the
spread of the virus.
The president said his bigger problem with masks was that many people fidget with the coverings, which he
said made them more likely to be infected. The federal-government guidelines stipulate that wearing cloth face
coverings helps slow the spread of Covid-19 and recommends washing hands before putting on the mask.
"They put their finger on the mask, and they take them off, and then they start touching their eyes and touching
their nose and their mouth," Mr. Trump said. "And then they don't know how they caught it?"
Mr. Trump declined to say how far he believed the unemployment rate, currently at 13.3% , might drop by
Election Day but expressed optimism that recent monthly record gains for jobs and retail sales signaled a quick
recovery. Many economists project it could take years for the U.S. economy to recover, and recent
increases in coronavirus cases in more than a dozen states are casting a cloud over reopening efforts.
"We will have created a lot of jobs prior to Nov. 3," Mr. Trump said. "I expect a tremendous increase in GDP.
And we'll be heading for the top. We'll be back."
Asked to identify one new initiative he would undertake in his second term, Mr. Trump repeatedly pointed to
actions taken the past three years. The president said his focus would be on building "a really strong,
powerful economy," suggesting his plan would rely on a combination of regulatory cuts and negotiating
international trade deals.
Mr. Trump said China might have had economic motives for letting coronavirus spread beyond its own border.
Asked if that was to extend economic consequences, Mr. Trump said: "Correct. They're saying, man, we're in a
mess. The United States is killing us. Don't forget, my economy during the last year and a half was blowing
them away. And the reason is the tariffs."
The president said he had no intelligence to support that claim, only an internal sense. He said there was a
better chance it was incompetence or a mistake. "I don't think they would do that," Mr. Trump said about the
possibility of Beijing letting coronavirus spread beyond China. "But you never know. But it has had an
impact."
The first major outbreak of the contagion was in Wuhan, the central Chinese city that recently tested nearly all
of its 11 million people after a handful of fresh cases emerged last month. Mr. Trump said he wouldn't seek to
replicate such widespread testing if there was a similar re-emergence in the U.S.
"I personally think testing is overrated, even though I created the greatest testing machine in history,"
Mr. Trump said, adding that more testing in the U.S. led to an increase in confirmed cases that "in many ways,
it makes us look bad."
While more testing does result in more cases, Dr. Fauci said in the interview this week that higher percentages
of positive tests in many states "cannot be explained by increased testing."
The seven-day rolling average of coronavirus tests that were positive in the U.S. was 4.6% as of Wednesday,
according to the Covid Tracking Project. That trend has been relatively stable in June.
Mr. Trump spent a significant portion of the interview criticizing John Bolton, his former national-security
adviser, for writing a scathing book about the president's handling of foreign policy. In the book,
Mr. Bolton says that Mr. Trump's decision making prioritized his re-election over the national interest and that
the president had a penchant for "giving personal favors to dictators he liked."
"The only thing I liked about Bolton was that everybody thought he was crazy," Mr. Trump said. "When you
walk into the room with him, you're in a good negotiating position, because they figure you're going to war
if John Bolton was there."
On race issues, Mr. Trump said a black Secret Service agent told him the meaning of Juneteenth as the
president was facing criticism for initially planning to hold his first campaign rally in three months on the day.
The rally is scheduled to be held in Tulsa, Okla., where, in 1921, a mob of white residents attacked and killed
black community members, destroying a thriving black business district.
Holding a rally on that day, particularly as racial protests continued throughout the country , was insensitive,
African-American leaders told Mr. Trump. He eventually pushed the rally back a day to June 20.
"I did something good: I made Juneteenth very famous," Mr. Trump said, referring to news coverage of the
rally date. "It's actually an important event, an important time. But nobody had ever heard of it."
Mr. Trump said he polled many people around him, none of whom had heard of Juneteenth. Mr. Trump paused
the interview to ask an aide if she had heard of Juneteenth, and she pointed out that the White House had
issued a statement last year commemorating the day. Mr. Trump's White House has put out statements
on Juneteenth during each of his first three years.
"Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement?" Mr. Trump said. "OK,
OK. Good."
Forty-seven states and the District of Columbia commemorate or observe Juneteenth, according to a
Congressional Research Service report released earlier this month. Some are calling on the three remaining
states—North Dakota, South Dakota and Hawaii—to formally recognize the holiday as well. Companies
including Twitter Inc. and Target Corp. have for the first time declared the day an official company holiday.
Some activists are asking all workers to strike on the day in solidarity.
Mr. Trump said he hadn't asked his black supporters or the Secret Service agent for their thoughts on removing
the names of Confederate officers from 10 Army bases around the country. The president explained his
opposition to the move, saying that the bases were named after Civil War generals as a way to help unite the
North and the South. The bases were named during a period that began in 1917 and stretched into the 1940s,
largely in response to white sentiment in Southern states.
"And now you're going to take them off? You're going to bring people apart," he said.
Mr. Trump said he had no regrets over his controversial tweet at the start of the protests that "when the looting
starts, the shooting starts." The president said the tweet could be read as either a threat or a fact. Asked how he
intended it, Mr. Trump said "a combination of both."
Mr. Trump also said he wouldn't have handled his walk to St. John's Church in Washington, D.C., any
differently. The decision to forcibly remove a crowd of peaceful protesters before he walked through Lafayette
Square to a fire-damaged church and posed for photos drew broad criticism earlier this month, while garnering
praise from some conservative backers.
He said he made the decision to visit the church "very quickly," revealing a clue as to why his top military
advisers later said they didn't know the full details of the event and expressed regret about attending.
Mr. Trump said he didn't bring any black supporters to the church because there were none at the White
House. He said he held up a Bible for pictures instead of praying or reading a verse because it was "very, very
noisy" from protesters several blocks away.
"You have people screaming all over the place, and I didn't think it was exactly the right time to pray—I'm on
the sidewalk," Mr. Trump said. "And the church itself, I didn't want to go in because they had a lot of
insurance reasons. You know, the church was boarded up. The entire church was boarded up, and I knew that.
So I went there, stood there, held up the Bible, talked to a few people and then we left. I came back, and I got
bad publicity."
Mr. Trump said he was eager to return to the campaign trail and looking forward to Saturday's rally. "It's going
to be a hell of a night," Mr. Trump said.
The rally in Tulsa will be Mr. Trump's first since the outbreak of coronavirus. The city's mayor said he can't
assure the health of rallygoers, some of whom have already started lining up outside the arena.
The Trump campaign has said it would do temperature checks and provide masks to attendees, but won't
require they be worn. Mr. Trump said that some attendees might catch the virus, adding "it's a very small
percentage."
Asked if he would be fine with Ivanka Trump, his eldest daughter and a senior White House adviser,
sitting in the crowded audience inside the arena, he said he would. "First of all, she's young," he said, adding
that elderly Americans were more likely to become severely ill or die from the disease.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-talks-juneteenth-john-bolton-economy-in-wsj-interview-11592493771?mod=breakingnews

18 June 2020.

Transcript of President Trump's Interview With The Wall Street Journal

President discusses the economy, the Bolton book, the coronavirus, race in America and more
President Trump sat down for an interview Wednesday evening in the Oval
Office with Wall Street Journal reporter Michael C. Bender. White House attendees included press secretary
Kayleigh McEnany, communications director Alyssa Farah and chief of staff Mark Meadows.
Here is the expedited transcript of that interview. Portions of the interview were off the record, and have been
excluded from this transcript.
President Trump : How are you?
Michael C. Bender: I'm fine, thanks. How are you doing?
Mr. Trump: I'm good, I'm good. I think we're doing good. I just got some good poll numbers.
Mr. Bender: Oh, did you?
Mr. Trump: I think we're doing good. So what's up?
Mr. Bender: Do you want to tell me about your poll numbers?
Mr. Trump: We're up in a lot of states. We're looking very good in Ohio. Very good in Wisconsin. Very good
in Florida. Yeah, I think we're doing well. I mean, we haven't started campaigning, you know. I have not,
essentially, started. I guess you could say it starts on Saturday, right? What's the word on that?
Mr. Bender: You tell me.
Mr. Trump: I think it's gonna be a hell of a night. I'll tell you.
Mr. Bender: Are you looking forward to it?
Mr. Trump: Yeah. Are you going?
Mr. Bender: No, I'm not this time.
Mr. Trump: You should go. Try and go.
Mr. Bender: We're in a rotation to travel on Air Force One. So I'll be in there soon.
Mr. Trump: Oh, I see. It's rotation. So you'll be in the next one? The next rally?
Mr. Bender: Maybe. I'll have to look at the rotation. But very soon.
Mr. Trump: OK. Good.
Mr. Bender: So have you been pushing to do a rally? It's been a while.
Mr. Trump: These are judges, look. (Mr. Trump holds up a stack of documents that, once signed, will formally
nominate individual judges.) So we'll be up to, oh, I don't know, 254 or something very soon. This a United
States district judge, district—New Mexico. All judges. Nobody's done anything like that one, right?
Mr. Bender: That's a lot of judges.
Mr. Trump: The judge situation, yeah. I think we're doing... Do you mind if I sign this while we talk?
Mr. Bender: No. Sounds good. Go ahead. A little multitasking? Well, maybe we can just talk about the rally
for just a second. What do you think about some of the risks from coronavirus?
Mr. Trump: Well, one of the reasons we chose the location, Oklahoma is they've done very well, with respect
to the rally—with respect to the…they have a really good arena, but they've done very well, with respect
to the, I call it the plague. The plague that was sent by China. And I think that, you know, the numbers are very
small. They said there's a spike, the spike is, I wish Mike (Pence) were here because he was showing
me the numbers before. It's like, very few people. And I think they're in great shape. But I would even
say the spike ends, has already ended. So I think we're going to do very well, you know. I think we're going to
do well. I think it's time to start our country up again, basically. And could we keep it shut longer? Personally,
I don't think so. I don't think people would take it. And I think it would be the wrong thing to do. We have
great retail numbers. I mean, it's the early surge. We have great retail numbers. It was supposed to, I guess, 7...
they were estimating 7%. We're going to be 17.7%.
So I think that it's going to be great. I think we're gonna have a really good third quarter. This quarter, as you
know, what's going on now we're finishing out the results of what we had to do. So the third quarter's really
our first quarter where we can show something and I think, I mean, based on the numbers, the employment
numbers you saw, we're good. Beyond good. Actually, I think they were reported as the best numbers in
history, best employment quarter in history. Best employment month in history.
Mr. Bender: How low can you get the employment rate by November?
Mr. Trump: Well, I think we can get tremendous numbers of jobs by November. I think by the end of the year,
we're going to have a vast number of jobs, largely…shortly thereafter, we should be almost where we were.
And I think ultimately next year is going to be a fantastic year. I think next year is going to be a really fantastic
year. You know, I was predicting the V, right? You know that. From the beginning. And now everybody's
saying I'm right. And we'll see. We've got tremendous momentum. Now, it'll be interesting to see where that
momentum goes now. We were riding really straight through. Doing great. And then we got hit by the China
virus. And frankly, we're starting a little bit of a different campaign. Now it's about jobs. Before it was about
other things, but basically before it was about keeping it where it was. Now it's about having it go up. And it
will go up. I think you'll see big GDP increases. I think you'll see big jobs increases. And I think you're going
to see big retail sales increases, which you've already seen. So if you look at the two, the two stats that have
come out…Two weeks ago, you had the job numbers, which were the biggest monthly gain in history. And
yesterday, you had the retail sales numbers, which was the biggest, the biggest gain—17.7%—in history.
And the estimate, I guess, was 6%, 6 to 7%. And it was 17.7%. So the numbers are looking much better than
people thought.
Mr. Bender: That's true. I'm sure you've seen the statistics, though, about how it relates to elections.
Mr. Trump: About how what does?
Mr. Bender: Jobs numbers and unemployment.
Mr. Trump: How it would relate to my chances for reelection? Yeah, you know, the sad thing is that I was
sailing. You understand? That was a free shot. Now, I mean, if you look at it, people say, "He got us there
once, he's going to get us there again." That was the greatest economy, the greatest job numbers we've ever
had. We were up to almost 160 million jobs. Nobody was ever close. But now I just have to start building it up
again. We started. And I think that the numbers are beyond anybody's expectations.
Mr. Bender: Do you think you can get the unemployment rate below 8% by Election Day?
Mr. Trump: I don't know. We'll have a lot of jobs before November 3. I mean, all I can say is this: We will
have created a lot of jobs prior to November 3. Tremendous number of jobs, a tremendous increase, I expect a
tremendous increase in GDP. And we'll be heading you know, for the top. We'll be back. And we've had a
lot of advantages, a lot of experience. We did it once and we'll do it again. Bottom line is we did it once, and
you would agree. Best job numbers, best economy, best everything we've ever had. China, we were beating
China badly.
China, last year, would have had the worst year they've ever had in many, many years and decades. And that
was because I put a lot of tariffs on China that they never wanted. And I don't want them to have bad years, but
they happened to have a very bad year last year. And that's before the virus. Now, of course they didn't even
report their numbers this year. You know, they refused to report their numbers, right? But last year was a bad
year for China, one of one of the very bad years that they've had. And that's largely because I put tariffs on.
Nobody ever put tariffs on them. Nobody ever did anything to China. China walked away from Obama-Biden.
No tariffs, no downside, no nothing. Whereas we took in billions of dollars of tariffs, and they were all put on
by me. And they don't follow the phase one deal—it's a phase one deal—if they don't follow it, I would
substantially raise the tariffs, if that were necessary. So far, I think they're…I haven't had the final report but it
looks like they are. They're buying a lot.
Mr. Bender: Speaking of China, there is a lot about China in John Bolton's new book. And trade. And he
makes a lot of accusations about you prioritizing trade over the enforcement of sanctions when it comes to
ZTE, and Huawei.
Mr. Trump: Well look how tough I've been on Huawei. Nobody has been tougher than me on Huawei. Look at
what's going on with Huawei. I mean, we've convinced other nations not to do business with them. Whether it's
U.K. or Italy or others. We can give you all the list. Nobody has ever been so tough on a company as I have to
Huawei. … So, nobody has been tough on Huawei like me, and there's nobody been tough on China like me.
Now, I don't know what Bolton has said. I haven't seen it yet.
But Bolton is a disgruntled guy who made tremendous mistakes. He was one of the architects of the Middle
East policy. And the only thing I liked about Bolton was that everybody thought he was crazy. And frankly,
when you walk into the room with him, you're in a good negotiating position. Because they figure you're going
to war if John Bolton was there. He wanted to go to war with everybody. He never saw a war he didn't like. He
made a tremendous mistake. You know, he and the people that he was pushing, when he went into the Middle
East, when he went into Iraq That was a terrible mistake. There were no weapons of mass destruction. That
was John Bolton.
He wanted the job so badly. He couldn't get approved by the Senate. It was a non-Senate confirmed…he
couldn't get a Senate confirmed job. And by the way, he didn't the first time. Did you know that? He wasn't
Senate-confirmed the first time. No. But I view him as a disgruntled employee. Very unhappy. Hated to leave.
He was basically a man who was not happy to be leaving. Was not happy to be leaving. He had a lot of policy
disputes, he and I.
And after the first month or so, you know, I asked him one question. I said, "So, do you think you did the right
thing by going into Iraq?" He said, "Yes." And that's when I lost him. And that was early on. That's when I lost
him. But no, I disagreed with much of the stuff he said. He was one of many people. I liked listening to many
people, and then doing whatever is the right thing to do.
Mr. Bender: You didn't ask him about Iraq before you brought him into the White House? If he regretted that?
Mr. Trump: No, but it didn't…I knew all about his policy on Iraq. But that didn't matter, frankly. Because he
made a terrible mistake. And so did everybody else involved in Iraq and the Middle East, frankly. I never
thought it was the right thing to do. And I've been proven right. But when he told me he still thinks it
was the right thing to do, and was unable to explain it to me, I said, "Explain that to me, because I don't think
you can.' And he could not explain it to me. So I said, "Do you say that just to make yourself feel good? Or do
you say that because you really believe it?" He said, "I really believe it." I said, "Well, then you've lost me
because it's just wrong."
Mr. Bender: You've talked about how your viewpoint on the trade deal has changed a little bit after
coronavirus.
Mr. Trump: Yeah.
Mr. Bender: In the book, Bolton says that you wanted to lift the penalties off ZTE as part of a trade
negotiation.
Mr. Trump: Well, he wasn't here there for that. ZTE was my deal. I put the fine on them. And I've never seen
anything quite like it. I essentially closed them up. That was me. Obama didn't do it. That was me. I closed
them up. And then we settled with them. We let them make a deal fairly shortly thereafter. They paid over a
billion dollar fine, and agreed to board changes and all sorts of other things. So an unbelievable deal. It was
short. Do you know what I'm talking about? I don't know exactly what the timing was. And then
immediately the Democrats say, Oh, you should have gotten more. I said, wait a minute, this is my deal. So I
closed them up. What was it, Michael, like $1.2 billion?
Mr. Bender: I don't remember exactly.
Mr. Trump: We'll go back and find it. Something like $1.2 billion. So I close them up. They paid a tremendous
amount in fines. I don't know what it was. I think it was over a billion dollars. And they opened up. But we
also got them to change their board as I remember it and the management and other things. So ZTE was great.
Now, as always the Democrats, when you go in and you say "Hey, I got a billion dollars or whatever was..."
Kayleigh McEnany, White House press secretary: It was $1.3 billion.
Mr. Trump: $1.3 billion For nothing. Listen to this: I closed them, essentially. I said, we're not going to do
business. They come and ask: how do we get out of this? I ask them for a lot of money. They pay $1.3 billion
and other things, not just $1.3. And then the Democrats say, Oh, you could have gotten more. They didn't do it.
Do you understand? They didn't do it. I did it. So we pick up $1.3 billion in fines. And it's an amazing deal.
Now the Democrats will say, Oh, because .... Iif by the way, if I got $10 billion in fines, if I got $200 billion, if
I ended up owning Beijing for $1, they would have said: The deal is not good enough, because that's what they
always say.
Any deal you make, they'll say it's good enough. Like with the policemen. They say, Oh, you could have made
a better deal, you know. And perhaps I'd say the same thing with them.
Mr. Bender: I guess I wonder about your perspective on the trade deal now, especially given the moves you
made on ZTE and, in the book, Bolton says that you effectively gave your blessing to President Xi to continue
building camps for the Uighur Muslims.
Mr. Trump: No, that's not true. That's not true.
In fact, I approved a deal—a reprimand, etc, etc—from Congress. That's been done. It's been all done. It's been
signed. But I approved. The deal came in from Congress recently. And it's been going along in Congress. I
could have killed that very easily. All I would have to do is make a statement that I'm against it.
Mr. Bender: That was today that you signed that.
Mr. Trump: No, but this has been going in Congress for a long time. And I could have fought it. And I would
have won. But I didn't fight that deal.
Mr. Bender: Bolton and Pompeo and Pence all wanted you to sanction China for detention of these minorities,
but you were reluctant because of what it meant for the trade deal. And I guess what I'm wondering is now that
you sort of have a different viewpoint on the trade deal, do you regret...
Mr. Trump: No, I think the trade deal is a great deal. But ever since we got hit with the Chinese plague, I feel
different toward everything having to do with China. And I've always been hardline on China.
Bolton never told me to do tariffs on China. Bolton never thought you could get any tariffs done on China.
Bolton has no economic sense. Bolton never thought you could get tariffs on China. They paid us
billions of dollars. I gave our farmers $12 billion and $16 billion dollars out of tariffs I took in from China,
which were much more than that. You understand? Because they were targeted. The farmers were targeted.
Bolton never thought you could get—most people never thought you could get tariffs. I even, in the deal, we
left a lot of the tariffs in the deal—big portions of the tariffs. I think 25%. Nobody thought you could make a
deal like that. Because we got the deal, and we got the tariffs. But since we got hit with the virus, I have a very
different perspective on China. Very different perspective. And I view it very differently. But nobody has been
tough on China like I am. And you know that.
Look under Obama and Biden, they got away with murder. This should have been... What I've been doing to
China should have been done a long time ago. Obama-Biden never... They just came in and it was pillage. It
was terrible. And they should have done something like what I've done. But we've taken in billions of dollars
and by the way, they devalued their currency in order to pay for the tariffs. They devalued and they put up,
they paid money. Otherwise their product wouldn't have sold because the tariffs would have made their
product too expensive. But the deal we made with China was a good deal, but I feel differently. The ink was
barely dry when we got hit with the virus, and I view that I view that whole deal differently now. I
view the relationship with China differently than
Mr. Bender: I do want to ask a couple questions about China. But just one more Bolton's book, and then I'll
move on. Pompeo has a very big role in this book. Bolton writes that Pompeo told him multiple times he was
close to resignation. He says Pompeo passed him a note during your meeting with Kim Jong Un saying that
you were full of shit.
Mr. Trump: Who is full of shit?
Mr. Bender: You, sir.
Mr. Trump: I would doubt that. Does he have the note? Let me see the note.
(Mark Meadows, the White House staff chief, enters the Oval Office.)
Mr. Meadows: Mr. Bender.
Mr. Bender: Mr. Meadows.
Mr. Trump: No, I would doubt that. I have a very good relationship with Pompeo.
Mr. Bender: That's what I was wondering. There is so much in here on Pompeo, I was wondering if this is a
Tillerson moment for Pompeo, when things became so strained between you and Tillerson.
Mr. Trump: I have no strain with Pompeo. No, I have a very good relationship with Pompeo.
Mr. Meadows: Extremely good.
Alyssa Farah, White House communications director: He's going to push back on that.
Mr. Trump: No, I would doubt that. I have a very good relationship with Pompeo. He's right now having an
important meeting with somebody at their request. Do you know that?
Mr. Bender: No, I didn't know that. With who?
Mr. Trump: No. Now, I have a very good relationship with... The one who has a bad relationship with Pompeo
was Bolton. Did you know that? Pompeo and Bolton had a terrible relationship. What, you don't see that? How
does that come out in the book?
Mr. Bender: Bolton casts a critical eye toward just about everybody in your White House.
Mr. Trump: Everybody in the White House hated John Bolton, that I could see. There might have been some
people. (To Mr. Meadows:) Did you deal with him at all? Yeah, you did. You think he's terrible.
Mr. Meadows. Yes, I did. John Bolton is very self important. And you can quote me on that.
Mr. Trump: And not very smart.
Mr. Meadows: The best way this book could be described is, "In The Room Where It Didn't Happen." Because
nothing that he touched ever happened, because he couldn't find consensus.
Mr. Trump: And with a short period of time, as we all got to know him because I didn't know him very well. I
didn't know him at all before this. I figured, eh, he's a hardliner. I like having a hardliner. He's a hardliner, but I
call him a stupid liner, because it was so foolish.
I could tell you things that he wanted to do that if we would have done them, we would have ended up on our
own Iraq, a nice new version of Iraq.
Mr. Bender: What's an example of that?
Mr. Trump: I don't want to say. I'll have to say when I write my book, but nobody cares about Bolton. I would
say this, look, he was somebody that wasn't liked at all, and wasn't respected very much. As we got to know
him, he was respected less and less. Personally, I thought he was crazy. And other than the fact that he goes out
and writes a book when he shouldn't be writing a book, you know. You don't leave and then write a book. And
he's got, you know, I think he's got a lot of legal problems for doing it. I think he's got probably a lot of legal
problems. He should not have done what he did. But you don't leave the office and go out and write a book
about a current administration that's doing well, but about a current administration. Who would ever
think of doing something like that?
Mr. Bender: So, he does address that in the book. And the reason he says he wants this book out now is to
essentially warn conservatives. He describes your reelection as the last guardrail on you in the White House,
and worries that Democrats may enjoy your second term more than conservatives. Do you want to address that
point and...
Mr. Trump: Well, sure. Look, I'm signing now, in front of you, judges. All judges. I won't give you the names.
All judges... Texas, New York, Minnesota. I'm signing off judges. We're going to have potentially close to 300
judges including DC It'll be close to 300. Nobody's close. They're all conservaative, highly respected judges.
They're going to be there for many years. They're all young. They're all conservative. They're all very smart.
And they're getting great reviews. If I did nothing else, that's good. Plus, I put two Supreme Court judges in
that are excellent people. But if I did nothing else, and it's really amazing because if I wasn't here, those judges
go to super liberal, young, smart judges, okay? Super liberal radical left. And you won't have your Second
Amendment any longer. And you will have a view on life that's much different than the view on life now. That
will change. And you won't be spending money on the military. I've totally rebuilt the military.
It's the strongest it's ever been. All made in the U.S.A.er $2 trillion, right. I created the Space Force. I got
Anwar done, that even Reagan couldn't get done. I got the biggest tax cuts in the history of our country. I
got the biggest regulation cuts in the history of our country. I've done things that no administration has ever
done in the first three and a half years.
Mr. Bender: It's been a very active four years. I can...
Mr. Trump: No, give me a list. Look at her (Mr. Trump's assistant enters the Oval Office with a list of Mr.
Trump's accomplishments.) She's so unbelievable. She is so quick. I look up and she's walking in with a list.
Look at that.
Take this and read it. OK, because honestly, this is page after page of things that I've done. Just take this and
read it. It's pretty amazing. Added 2.5 million jobs. This is recently: 2.5 million jobs in May
shattering the expectation that we will lose 10 million jobs. We're going to lose 10 million, unfortunately,
for the critics, we Retail Sales up 17.7%, which is the largest in history, job gains last month was the largest
increase ever. Nearly 300 jobs were created for African-Americans last month. 75% of small businesses are
now open. That's a big number. It was estimated would be a much lower number. S&P 500 had the best 50
days in history. The was a week before actually... And this was a good week. So I guess that continues. Nasdaq
hit 10,000 for the first time, an all time record. Nasdaq, that was three, four days ago.
In the middle of the pandemic, not in the middle toward the end of the pandemic. In my opinion. Hope I'm
right. Saved the New York Times The Washington Post and cable television. I put that in for fun, but I did, it's
true. Because when I'm here when I'm not here... Maybe not The Wall Street Journal, but much of the media is
going out of business. Because if you have to cover sleepy Joe Biden who's dead from the neck up, if you have
to cover sleepy Joe Biden, I don't think it's gonna be too exciting.
Mr. Bender: Well, what would you say is a new priority for the second term? One new initiative.
Mr. Trump: Well, it would have been much different if you asked me that question three months ago,
because the economy was really rocking. And I would have been cutting debt. I would have been cutting
expenses. I would have been cutting a lot of things. It would have been, you know, different. Now the new
priorities: Building the economy to a point where it was plus, because we're gonna have a better economy than
it was. Because of certain things I'm doing. So if you would have asked me the question three months ago, I
would have said reducing debt and building a, you know, just a continuation of what I'm doing now. Now
you're asking me the question, and now it's building a really strong, powerful economy. And I think next year
we can have a better... we can have one of the best years we've ever had.
And don't forget so far I've been right. Now, you know, you may come to see me in a couple of months... And
Michael's always been fair, I don't mind, you know, seeing you. You've always treated me well. Sometimes
he's treated me fairly. But when I explained it to him, he's treated me fairly. When I'm not here to explain it to
him, it's a little different, I told them.
I said there's going to be a V. And everybody is now saying that I was right.
Mr. Bender: You've kind of described it as a snapback, that once the economy reopens all these jobs come
back. But is there something you plan on...
Mr. Trump: That's because it was an artificial closing. It wasn't like a bad, horrible recession that takes years to
develop and it just starts tumbling downhill, and it takes 15 years to recover as it did with the Great Depression
and some really big recessions and it would take 10,15 years to recover.
Mr. Bender: A lot of economists say it will take a while to come back. Several decades of job growth have
been lost in the last couple months. My question is whether you have a new initiative in mind to re-
energize the economy, to bring back jobs and get people back to work, in a second term?
Mr. Trump: So aside from everything else when we got rid of Nafta, which was a disaster. We have a great
USMCA now. And in addition, we are making much better trade deals that we had in the past. If you look at
Japan, they're buying $40 billion worth of stuff. And building many car plants here. Germany is
doing the same thing. Germany has to do what they're doing, you know, building plants. They're always
difficult, frankly. And we're reducing our troops in Germany because it's costing us a lot of money and they're
delinquent on their payments. You know, they're delinquent on their NATO payments. They owe a
lot of money. Germany owes a lot of money. They don't pay their bills. They're supposed to be paying 2% and
they're paying 1%. If that, and it's not fair. So we're supposed to defend Germany from Russia, right? And yet
Germany pays Russia billions of dollars for energy. How does that work? Right? So, you know. So, we've
made, we've made great trade deals. And I was about to make the best trade deal of all, we're all set to go. and
then we got hit by the pandemic. If we didn't get hit by the pandemic, we would have some additional trade
deals that would have been unbelievable, including with the European Union.
But instead of doing that, everybody was being very conservative and heading for the shelters.
Mr. Bender: You've talked about holding China accountable for coronavirus. Do you think they sat on that
information about the virus in order to tank other economies around the world?
Mr. Trump: They did something because if you look, they had very little outbreak, although now they seem to
have an outbreak in Beijing, which is interesting, as of yesterday. But everybody knew they had it. I acted very
early. I closed our country to China.
By the way, Bolton disagreed. He thought we shouldn't do it, okay? He didn't think and you know, I was in a
room full of people. You were there. And of the people, I don't know of anybody that thought I should do it.
That was a decision I made because I was seeing and hearing that China has a big problem. So they have a big
problem, a big contagious problem, a problem of contagion to put it a different way, right? And I closed our
country in January, the end of January, I closed our country to China. Nancy Pelosi was dancing
in the streets of Chinatown at the end of February.
Mr. Bender: Did you consult with Bolton on coronavirus?
Mr. Trump: No. I lost respect for Bolton's intellect fairly early in the process. It wasn't a big deal to me
because frankly, he was good for me to use in negotiations because everyone thought he was crazy and he
would go to war.
Mr. Bender: Was that effective? Was there an instance where you felt having Bolton in the room paid off in a
negotiation?
Mr. Trump: When people saw Bolton in the room, they figured probably he was stupid enough to go to war
all the time. You know, he was a guy that I could tell you, if I would have listened to him, you and I would be
in World War Three right now. He's crazy. He's crazy, and I think he's not smart. But you know what I'm
talking about right?
Mr. Meadows: Yes I do, sir.
Mr. Trump: He wanted to do things that were insane.
Mr. Bender: Like what?
Mr. Trump: I don't want to tell you that. Maybe I'll tell you, you know, at a later date. But he had no touch. He
had no feel. And I think he, you know, just had little intellect. He was also somebody who, just, people didn't
like him. Nobody in the office liked him. Nobody wanted to be with him. Nobody wanted to talk
much with him. And I realized early on, as I was saying before to Michael, was when I asked him the question,
so John, you were one of the people that were really pushing hard to go into the Middle East, to go into Iraq.
Would you do it again? He said, Yes. And that's where I said this guy is crazy.
Mr. Bender: That was only after a month?
Mr. Trump: Yeah, I don't know. But it was very early on. I was talking to him. I said, So was that a mistake? I
said, and it's okay to admit you made a mistake, although that's a big one. That's a beauty. And I said, Do you
think it was a mistake? And he said, No, I think it was the right thing to do. And I said, You know, you can't
explain that. You just can't explain it. So anyway,
Mr. Bender: Maybe points for honesty?
Mr. Trump: That's very interesting. Or maybe points for stupidity? I can figure out which. Oh, wait, you take
this. (Mr. Trump offers his print out of accomplishments.)
You can add on to what I said. Tried to deal with a Nafta. By the way. One thing. It wasn't Bolton that killed al
Baghdadi. It wasn't Bolton that killed Soleimai. … Bolton might say, oh, Trump wasn't tough enough on China
and wasn't tough enough on this. I know that kind of shit, because he lied a lot. He is a liar. Nobody was
tougher in China. Nobody was tougher on Iran. Nobody's been tougher on anything. We'll see how North
Korea works out. … It's early in that whole situation. So we'll see. You know, in the meantime, he expected to
be in war. OK. We're not in war. What have we given up? Nothing. Have we reduced sanctions? No. Have we
done anything? No. And the fake news video—total phony media would say, Oh, Trump's give it up a lot.
Really what have I given up? Nothing. … Okay. A few more Mike.
Mr. Bender: Just a couple on coronavirus and I want to make sure to as you a little about your police reforms.
Mr. Trump: On coronavirus, I acted very quickly, and I acted early. And they can't get over it. Number one.
Number two. If I didn't act, we would have had 3 million deaths. And instead we're at 110,000. And we could
be heading to a number that's, you know, higher than 150,000 to 200,000, it could be ending all now depending
on how it goes. We're doing very well on vaccine. We're doing very well on therapeutic. But if I didn't do what
we did, we would have anywhere from 1.5 million to 3 million deaths. That would be 20 times more than we'll
end up having, you know? 10 to 30 times more.
Mr. Bender: It sounds like you're very tuned in to what's happening in China and in the second waves that are
happening there. There was a spike a couple weeks ago in Wuhan…
Mr. Trump: Well, first of all they don't... We did an incredible thing, not since the Second World War. We had
very few ventilators in our country. You couldn't get them because every country was desperate for ventilators.
We went into the ventilator-making business and now we have thousands of ventilators being made every
week. And we're helping other countries with ventilators. On the medical equipment, same thing.
We're with making a lot. I was up in Maine the other day. I don't know if you were there. The lines of people
on the street in Maine... That was a swab plant. But we're making a lot of our own stuff now. And very
importantly, our testing is so far advanced of any other country. And that's a good thing and a bad thing. Here's
what's bad about it.
We tested I think, 20 some odd million people now, right? No country is even close to that. You look at 4
million, maybe 5 million in Germany, no country's even close to 20 million. The problem is when you test,
you're finding cases, you're finding kids that had it and you know, etc, etc.
Mr. Bender: Why is that a problem?
Mr. Trump: Well, the problem is because we're showing cases whereas other countries that don't have testing
capacity, they don't show cases. So they say the United States has more cases than anybody else. That's
because we do more testing. If we use the same testing that I used in China, or in Iran, or in some of these
larger countries, it would blow us away. First of all, China doesn't report it's testing.…
So I do say they contained it. Now, just the last little day and it's all of a sudden turning that maybe it wasn't
contained. But it seems to have been contained in China. And why was it contained in China? But the Chinese
people that were infected go to Europe and go all over the world?
Mr. Bender: What's the answer to that question, Mr. President?
Mr. Trump: Well, that's what I'm trying to find out.
Mr. Bender: What do you think it is?
Mr. Trump: There is a very good chance it was incompetence. There was a very good chance it was a mistake.
And there's a chance that it was intentional.
Mr. Bender: You think that is a lesser chance?
Mr. Trump: Yeah I think so. Because I don't think I don't think they would do that. But you never know. But it
has had an impact.
Mr. Bender: And that would be to spread the economic consequences around the globe?
Mr. Trump: Correct. They're saying, man, we're in a mess. The United States is killing us. Don't forget, my
economy during the last year and a half was blowing them away. And the reason is the tariffs.
Mr. Bender: Is that your gut on that? Or do you have intelligence that they may have pushed this beyond their
border?
Mr. Trump: It's my sense that could have happened. I hope not. And I hope we'll be able to find it out.
Mr. Bender: The Wuhan question I wanted to ask about the spike there, which resulted in them testing almost
all 11 million people in 9 days. If there was a second spike in New York or Michigan, would you push to test
everyone in New York, everyone in Michigan?
Mr. Trump: No, I wouldn't. I personally think testing is overrated, even though I created the greatest testing
machine in history. I've created the greatest testing machine in history. And I think testing is overrated.
Mr. Bender: Why is that?
Mr. Trump: Because I think you'll have it and you'll test. I'm not saying testing is bad. And certainly you test
people and you want to see whether or not they have it. But the testing can lead to a lot of mistakes also. Look,
if we didn't test all the cases that we're reporting, you wouldn't know about any of those cases. In many ways,
it makes us look bad. The fact that we're so good at something makes us look bad. But having the ability to test
is…has helped us a lot. But don't forget we report every single death.…We report every case. So, if we test 20
times more than some other country, we're going to find cases. They call them cases. And that's only because
our testing is much better.
Mr. Bender: You think testing is overrated because it adds to the caseload?
Mr. Trump: No, not for that reason. I just think that what you have to do is be careful, regardless. You have to
be careful. You have a certain population... we now know that elderly people, especially elderly people that
have a problem such as heart disease, or various…they're literally listed, okay? They're literally listed.
Diabetes, heart disease, I think would be number one and two. But they're listed. If they're elderly, and they
have those diseases, it's not easy. It's not gonna be pleasant. OK? So we know where we should protect. We
had a number of governors that did a very, very poor job with respect to nursing homes, a very, very poor job.
And they should have known better.
Mr. Bender: You also don't seem to like masks very much. Do you think people are protesting you when they
wear them?
Mr. Trump: Masks are a double-edge sword. People touch them. And they grab them and I see it all the time.
They come in, they take the mask. Now they're holding it now in their fingers. And they drop it on the desk
and then they touch their eye and they touch their nose. No, I think a mask is a…it's a double-edged sword. It's
a double-edged sword. I see Biden. It's like his whole face is covered. It's like he put a knapsack over his face.
He probably likes it that way. He feels good that way because he does. He seems to feel good in a mask, you
know, feels better than he does without the mask, which is a strange situation.
Mr. Bender: You've commented on Biden's mask a few times, and a couple of reporters who wear masks. Do
you view that as a protest of you? Do you feel like people wear masks to show their disapproval of you?
Mr. Trump: It could be, yeah. It could be. But it could also be they feel better about it. I mean, I'm okay with it.
Look, I'm okay with it. But the mask is a double-edged sword and I see it. People come in, they're talking
through the mask for hours. They probably don't clean them after, you know, they get a little cocky, right?
Then they take the mask, they put their finger on the mask, and they take them off, and then they start touching
their eyes and touching their nose and their mouth. And then they don't know how they caught it.
Mr. Bender: One of my sisters is a nurse and she's described this as a false sense of security that it gives
people.
Mr. Trump: It's possible. It could be a false sense of security. But think of it, they're touching it. I watch them
all day long. They're playing with it. You watch some of these politicians, they start talking, they take their
fingers and they put them inside the mask and they rip it down. Now their fingers are infected. Potentially. And
then they touch their nose. They touch their eyes, they touch their mouth. Voilà.
Mr. Bender: So it's okay if your supporters wear masks at the rally?
Mr. Trump: Absolutely. They can wear them or not. I want them to be happy. We're gonna have a good time.
Yeah, I want them to be happy.
Mr. Bender: What happens if your supporters get sick at one of these rallies?
Mr. Trump: Well, people have to know that, yes, you do. But it's tiny. You know, it's a very small percentage.
We did the right thing. We closed it down. We closed it down. Expensive. But you can't put a price on saving
millions of lives. We saved millions of lives. You know, a lot of people say herd. Well how did herd work for
Sweden? No good. How did herd work for Brazil? No good.
Mr. Bender: Let me put it in personal terms. Would you be okay if a family member of yours, if Ivanka wanted
to go sit in the crowd at your rally?
Mr. Trump: Yeah I would. I would be. Well, first of all, she's young. And this really is a disease…I
was with the governor of New Jersey the other night, because he wants to do a big bridge in New Jersey that
they've been trying to finance for 50 years. And I approved it. Very expensive bridge in New Jersey. They
need it. It's been a real problem. You know the bridge. And he was telling me something that was shocking. He
said they've had.. how many people died in New Jersey?
Ms. Farah: I don't know exactly. But New York and New Jersey are one-quarter of the cases
Mr. Trump: Thousands of people. They lost one person under 18. Hey, would you find
out the number of deaths in New Jersey? The state of New Jersey. It was only a few days ago. So they lose one
person under 18, he said. I said that's amazing. That's why the schools have to open. But the people that are at
risk are our older professors, and they're gonna have to be careful, Maybe not be there initially or maybe have,
you know, be behind some kind of a protective shield.
But this was brought to us by China. Just came in from China, and should have never happened because they
could have stopped it.
Mr. Bender: Can I ask just a couple questions on the George Floyd fallout?
Mr. Trump: Sure
Mr. Bender: Do you think that there's systemic racism in the country?
Mr. Trump: In the country?
Mr. Bender: Yes. In America.
Mr. Trump: Hopefully not. But there's always something going on that's bad, because there's always something
going on. Here, let me just see that for a second. (Mr. Trump's assistant hands the president a
chart with the number of coronavirus deaths, which total about 12,800.)
OK. Yeah. So, that number. When he mentioned he said 12,500. So he said at 12,500, one person died
under the age of 18. So I think that a lot of these are older persons. So I'm very happy I'm young and in perfect
condition. OK?
Mr. Bender: You said you hope there's not systemic racism. Do you think there is?
Mr. Trump: I would like to think there is not. Yeah, I would like to think there is not such systemic racism.
And it would be whatever I can do to make myself correct on that thought, I'd like to do it. Now, unfortunately,
in the real world, there is some. But I would like to, whatever I could do to reduce that or get rid of it, I'd be
very happy with.
Are you asking in police departments or the U. S.?
Mr. Bender: I meant systemic racism. In police departments, in hiring practices...
Mr. Trump: Yeah, I'd like to think there is not but unfortunately, there probably is some. I would also say it's
very substantially less than it used to be.
Mr. Bender: How are you thinking about some of these issues? I know your position on law and orders is very
clear. You've had some public events with the police. You had some victim's families in here yesterday. But
when it comes to...
Mr. Trump: By the way that was a very impactful moment. The people I met were incredible people.
Mr. Bender: Impactful in what way? What did you take away from that?
Mr. Trump: Meeting the parents, in most cases, parents. of young people, sons in many of the cases, a daughter
in one case, that were killed is devastating. To see the parents and so needless, I mean, it should never have
happened. I met with a large number of parents that were just, I mean, their lives have been torn apart.
Mr. Bender: Did any of those cases resonate with you? Any particular story that stands out?
Mr. Trump: All of them.
Mr. Bender: Was there one that stood out?
Mr. Trump: All of them. Ahmed. Ahmad. He is the young man who was running. It was just sad to
see. The mother was a fantastic woman. Made a great impression. They all made a great impression on me. In
fact, after that I had the speech with the law enforcement. So we had two meetings. And it was very interesting
because they were very different meetings, very important meetings. But the impact of meeting the parents was
very important.
Mr. Bender: The meeting with families was private. And it sounds like everyone wanted to keep it that way,
for a number of reasons. But when it comes to healing the country, is that something you think about and have
you thought about ways to try to bring people back together?
Mr. Trump: So I think, Michael, that the best way I can do it, it's leadership. But I want to bring the economy
back. Because if I can bring the economy back, African-American unemployment was the best it has ever
been, by far. Number of jobs overall. Hispanic, Asian. But if I can bring the economy back, we're gonna have
great jobs, we're gonna have families where life is going to be a lot easier. Their life is just going to be better.
And I was there. We had the greatest economy. We had the largest increases and, you know, 3.2% increases,
It's unheard of what we did, and I think you would have seen a lot of people starting to come together. And
now I'm starting that process all over again because Wuhan. I can give you 12, I can give you 15 different
names for that. We can call it China. We can call it Wuhan. We can call it many different things. But
because of the virus, it came from China, I have to start that process all over again.
Mr. Bender: Is there any part of you that wishing you hadn't sent the tweet about the shooting starts
when the looting starts?
Mr. Trump: Well, that tweet is viewed both ways. And by the way, that wasn't from some mayor in Miami,
there was a man named Frank Rizzo from New Jersey, was a rough guy. He ran a rough operation, but he
didn't have a lot of looting, I can tell you. But that is viewed both two ways. Number one, it can be viewed as a
threat. And number two, it can be viewed as a fact that if people start looting, then end up getting shot. And
that's usually a fact. Now it's less of a fact in a politically correct society. Because I saw a lot of looting and
these kids would just walk out with television. Nobody was doing anything.
Mr. Bender: Did you view it as a fact or a threat?
Mr. Trump: I viewed it that, generally speaking, it could be a combination of both. And look, I think that it's
not right, that police offices run by weak liberal Democrats, allow kids to break into stores and walk
out with television sets and put them in the back of a car. Which is incredible. Where does the car come from?
But, you know, I saw tremendous looting. And I think it's terrible. There was tremendous damage done. Small
businesses were ruined. Lives were ruined by that and people were killed. Nobody mentions that. They don't
say, Well, what about the people that got killed on the other side? They're more saying, Oh, what a horrible
threat. But no, I view it to me, it would normally mean that when somebody walks into a store and walks out
carrying a television set on his back, he's putting himself in great danger, in theory. But then you look at a
place like Seattle, where they take over a major part of a major city. And the mayor says, well, it's going to be
a love fest, and the governor does nothing and doesn't even... says he doesn't know about it, but on that he's
lying obviously because he knew about it. But he actually said, you saw that, he said, Gee, I didn't know
nothing about that. That's a terrible thing. That's a terrible precedent.
Mr. Bender: You did move your rally off Juneteenth. Can you talk about why you did that?
Mr. Trump: Well, I did that out of respect because I had two African-American friends and supporters. And
most people, and I went to a lot of people, they didn't they had not heard the term Juneteenth.
Mr. Bender: Do you know what it was?
Mr. Trump: I did something good. I made it famous. I made Juneteenth very famous. It's actually an important
event, it's an important time. But nobody had heard of it. Very few people have heard of it. Actually, a young
African-American Secret Service agent knew what it was. I had political people who had no idea. Did you ever
hear of Juneteenth before?
Ms. Farah: I did from last year when the White House put out a statement
Mr. Trump: Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement?
Ms. Farah: Yes
Mr. Trump: Oh OK. Good. I don't think it was put up by others. But we made people aware of it, and it's good.
But they asked me, you know, and these are two really good supporters, African-American supporters that they
believe in what we're saying…You know, we have a lot of black support, tremendous black support.
Mr. Bender: Some people wondered why some of the black supporters didn't walk over to St. John's with you,
or why they haven't been to many events.
Mr. Trump: Because they weren't here. I just made that decision very quickly. I'm the only man that can walk
three blocks—in danger—can walk three blocks, hold up a Bible in front of a church that protesters just
burned the hell out of and get bad publicity. I'm the only person that's capable of doing that. Think of what I
did. I made a speech which people thought was a good speech. I then walked across the street. Not
across the street, I walked a long distance away. It's like a three block walk. And there is danger,
because of buildings. I'm not saying there is danger with the protesters, because the Secret Service had that in
very good shape. We had no problem. But this danger from above right? I walked three blocks, go to a church
that had just suffered a major fire that was built at the same time as the White House. So very important. John
Adams was the first parishioner. Was he the fifth or sixth? Whatever. You'll figure it out. First supporter. First
parishioner. I hold up a Bible in front of the church that just got burned badly the night before, and I got bad
publicity than me
Mr. Bender: There may be people who are critical of you no matter what. But why didn't you pray? Why didn't
you read something from scripture? Why didn't you bring someone from the black community? Or a
parishioner?
Mr. Trump: Well, I was standing outside on a sidewalk. It was very, very noisy, as you can
imagine. The protesters, who, the day before tried to burn down the church…You know, everyone was saying,
Oh, they were so wonderful. They weren't wonderful. They tried to burn down the church. And it was, they
told me, the same group. A similar group. So you have people screaming all over the place. And I didn't think
it was exactly the right time to pray. I'm on the sidewalk. And the church itself, I didn't want to go in because
they had a lot of insurance reasons. You know, the church was boarded up. The entire church was boarded up,
and I knew that. So I went there, stood there, held up the Bible, talked to a few people and then we left. I came
back and I got bad publicity.
But I also, if you think about it, I went to West Point over the weekend, made a very good speech, according to
everybody. They said the speech was one of the best. The kids thought it was one of the best they'd ever heard.
Stood up there for a long time saluting. Were you there?
Mr. Bender: No, but I watched. It looked like a really nice day.
Mr. Trump: Yeah. After the helicopters came over, the hats went up, the general said, Sir, Are you ready? I
said, I'm ready. And he led me to a ramp that was long and steep and slippery. And I said, I got a problem
because I wear, you know, the leather bottom shoes. I can show them to you if you like. Same pair. And you
know what I mea, they're slippery. I like them better than the rubber because they don't catch. So they're better
for this. But they're not good for ramps. I said, General, I got a problem here. That ramp is slippery.…
So I'm going to go real easy. So I did. And then the last 10 feet I ran down. They always stop it just before I
ran, they always stop it. So, I spent three hours between speeches and saluting people and they end up, all they
talked about is ramp. … If you would have seen this ramp, it was like an ice skating rink. So I'm the only one
that can happen. But the church is an interesting thing. I mean, here I spent three hours on stage, the sun
pouring in and I saluted 1,106 cadets, and that's not easy. Even the general said, That's amazing.
Other presidents would never have been able to do it. Because usually they do the first 10. They do 10 honor
rolls, and then they go home. I stayed there for hours. And what do I do? I get publicity about walking down a
ramp. And does he have Parkinson's? I don't think so.
Mr. Bender: Well, some of it may be your campaign raising similar questions about Biden's age and people
asking similar questions...
Mr. Trump: Well, I'm four years younger. But no, it's not Biden's age. I know people that are much older than
me. And they're sharp as they were when they were 25. I know a man who's 92, is 100% sharp. Take a look at
Bernie Marcus, Home Depot. Take a look at Sheldon Adelson. So sharp. It's not the age. … But what the news
does is they try and put me in that position they saw the ramp. The amazing thing is the Washington Post did a
story. Do you have a copy of this story? It's around someplace. Could you give me the copy of the Washington
Post this guy wrote on the ramp? Do me a favor. He said Trump's right. I could not believe it. Do you
see the story that did a Trump's right? It wasn't his health it was politics. I said to the general, This isn't good.
Don't forget the generals were in rubber, you know rubber boots.
That was quick. Rampgate has nothing to do with Trump's health. This was in the Washington Post. This was
one of the great shockers of all time. Do you want it? You don't need it, right?
Mr. Bender: I can get it at home.
Mr. Trump: The writer, named Henry Olsen. I said, I can't believe the Washington Post. I gained respect
for The Washington Post. They said they had a picture. Look. This is steel. Steel.
Mr. Bender: Are you okay renaming some of the military bases with Confederate names?
Mr. Trump: So, I would like to keep. I don't think we should be changing these bases. From these bases, we
won two World Wars, and plenty of other things. We had great victories. They're known all over the world.
Fort Bragg is the largest military base in the world. I don't think we should be changing the names and a
lot of people agree. They were named after the Civil War in some cases in order to bring people together, north
and south. And now you're going to take them off? You're going to bring people apart.
Mr. Bender: Have you asked the two black friends you mentioned earlier about that? Or your Secret Service
agents?
Mr. Trump: No, I haven't asked them about that. They told me about the Juneteenth. This is... you're asking me
a separate question.
Mr. Bender: Yes. I was wondering if you have members of the black community to run some of these
questions by.
Mr. Trump: I haven't discussed this with them. I just say this. We've won two World Wars. Those names were
put on there for a reason. It was a reconciliation. It was bringing people together. This was after the war. And I
think that we're always trying to be so politically correct. And it's hurting our country very badly in my
opinion.
Mr. Bender: The Buffalo protester, the 75-year-old man who fell. He had a brain injury and can't walk. So you
still think he may be Antifa?
Mr. Trump: That I don't know. I retweeted…he was a professional agitator. He was having a fight with other
guys there that were agitators that were younger. Did you see the clip? Do you see the clip of the young guys
that were screaming, Get the hell out of here? They were fighting with them. Then he steps and he puts himself
right in the way of these people. And then he takes something and starts putting it on their body, touching them
or close. And somebody said it was a scanner, whatever it was. I'm not saying anything one way or the other.
I'm just saying, What did he stand right in their path? And he moved right into their path. And the soldiers
knew him.
Mr. Bender: Do you think he's still you still think he might be Antifa?
Mr. Trump: If you look at his tweets, he certainly had things about Antifa on his tweets. You saw that right?
And he deleted his entire account when the people started going, because they saw the tweets, and then he
deleted his entire account. So what's that all about? No, I don't like to see people hurt. But he put himself right
into the midst of the soldiers. These police, they meant business. They were walking and he puts himself right
there. And you could tell they knew him. They knew him. But he's had a long history. Too bad he had to get
hurt.
Mr. Bender: You opened this on polls, let's end it there. Sounds like there's a big gap in Arizona. Iowa is
tightening. How are you feeling about things right now?
Mr. Trump: I hear we're doing very well in the polls. And I see we're doing very well. We have polls. And if
you look at a lot of the polls, they're very heavily weighted Democrat,
But I hear we're doing very well. We'll see. We'll get to know soon enough. This is no different than what I had
in a certain other election in 2016. And they would tell me about the poll,
Mr. Bender: You see parallels with the two races?
Mr. Trump: I think this is far worse. I think the press is more dishonest now than it was in 2016. They call
them suppression polls. I think that I'm way ahead in Iowa. How could I not be ahead? I took
care of the farmers better than anybody who's ever taken care of farmers? Biden would never do it. He
wouldn't even know that they had a problem. How could they possibly go for Biden. He wouldn't
know the farmers even at a problem. They were targeted for $12 billion and $16 billion, and I got them $12
billion and $16 billion out of the tariffs that China was paying us and had a lot of money left over
for the United States Treasury.
Mr. Bender: I know you're not happy about the press coverage. Sometimes it seems you want to run
against the press more than you do against Biden.
Mr. Trump: I just think that I don't think the press is extremely dishonest. The only thing I can't figure out is
why. Go back a couple of months and take a look at what we've done.
And then we would have started with the debt, and we would have started with cutting and you know, bringing
things, really, I mean, we were in such great shape. And you think people would love having a strong military
and low taxes and all of these things that we had. It was, you know, we have the strongest military now we've
ever had. One of the things I did also, I don't even know if it's in here, the wall. Our border security now is as
good as it's ever been. But we just completed 212 miles of wall. And that's one of the reasons—that's a lot, you
know, in the most critical areas. And nobody gets through that wall. That wall is the real deal. And so that's a
big thing. But we'll see you again, Michael.
Mr. Bender: Who do you think Biden should pick as his VP? I'll leave you on that.
Mr. Trump: I mean, he said he's going to pick a woman. So I would imagine he's going to pick a woman. I
would hope so. I don't want to really guesstimate, but you know, there are probably three or four that I would
see as being viable. More than that.
Mr. Bender: Thank you very much for the time.
Mr. Trump: Any time.
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