AN ANALYSIS OF THE HADITH:

“Allah was when

nothing was other
than Him…”

By:

DR SALAHUD-DIN IBN AHMED AL-IDLIBI

PDF edn by:

Abul Hasan, May 2006
Praise be to Allah that is due from all grateful believers, a fullness of praise for
all his favours: a praise that is abundantly sincere and blessed. May the
blessings of Allah be upon our beloved Master Muhammad, the chosen one,
the Apostle of mercy and the seal of all Prophets (peace and blessings of Allah
be upon them all); and upon his descendants who are upright and pure: a
blessing lasting to the Day of Judgment, like the blessing bestowed upon the
Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salam) and his descendants. May Allah be pleased
with all of the Prophetic Companions (Ashab al-Kiram). Indeed, Allah is most
worthy of praise and supreme glorification!

Background information relevant to the analysis of this

Hadith, its variants and what the scholars are on record as
upholding on this issue pertinent to sound creed (aqeeda):

REPRODUCED FROM DR GF HADDAD’S ABRIDGED

TRANSLATION AND NOTES TO IMAM AL-BAYHAQI’S KITAB
AL-ASMA WAL SIFAT

The Beginning of Creation

Allah  said: He it is Who produces creation then reproduces it (30:27).

‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘As narrated that the Prophet  said: “Allah foreordained
(qaddara) all the destinies (al-maqâdîr) before creating the heavens and the earth by fifty
thousand years.” 1

‘Imran ibn Husayn narrated:

I went in to see the Prophet  after tying my camel at the gate. People from the
Banu Tamim came in to see him. He said: “Accept the glad tidings, O Banu Tamim!” They
said: “You gave us glad tidings; now give us something tangible.” This exchange took
place twice. Then some from the people of Yemen came in to see him. He said: “Accept the
glad tidings, O people of Yemen! for the Banu Tamim did not accept them.” They said:
1
Narrated from ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘As by al-Tirmidhi (hasan sahîh gharîb) and Ahmad; also by
Muslim with the following wording: “Allah inscribed kataba) the destinies of all created things before
creating the heavens and the earth by fifty thousand years, while His Throne stood over the water (wa
‘arshuhu ‘alâ al-mâ’).”

2
 “We accept, O Messenger of Allah!” Then they said: “We came to ask you of this Great
Matter.” He said: “Allah was when nothing was other than Him. His Throne stood over the
water. He inscribed all things in the Remembrance. He created the heavens and the earth.”
Then someone called out: “You camel has fled, O Ibn al-Husayn!” I darted out and
between me and my camel I could see a mirage. By Allah! How I wish that I had left it
alone. 2

His words “Allah was when nothing was other than Him” indicate that there was nothing
else other than Him – neither water, nor the Throne, nor anything else, since all of that is “other
than Him.” His words: “His Throne stood over the water” means that He then created water, and
He created the Throne over the water, after which He inscribed all things in the Remembrance, as
we narrated in the hadith of ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘As. This above is most obvious in the
hadith of Abu Razin al-‘Uqayli.

The latter narrated that the Prophet  disliked to be asked [too many] questions, but
when [he,] Abu Razin [,] asked him a question it pleased him. He said:

I said: “O Messenger of Allah, where was 3 our Lord before He created the
heavens and the earth?” He replied: “He was in a mist (kâna fî ‘amâ’) above which there
was air (mâ fawqahu hawâ’) and below which there was air (wa mâ tahtahu hawâ’).
Then He created the Throne over the water.” 4

If the original text has ‘amâ’ it means a kind of mist or thin cloud (sahâb raqîq). By the
words “in a mist” he means “over the cloud, disposing of it at will (mudabbiran lahu) and self-
exalted over it (‘âliyan ‘alayh),” just as He  said: Have you taken security from Him Who
is in the heaven (67:16) meaning Him Who is above the heaven, and I shall crucify you “in”
(fî) the trunks of palm-trees (20:71) meaning on their trunks. 5 His saying “above which there

2
Narrated from ‘Imran ibn Husayn by Bukhari in his Sahih. Ibn al-Subki said: “Our scholars have said that
the Prophet  did not speak to anyone of the foundations of the Religion (usûl al-dîn) in such a way as he
has spoken to the Ash‘aris [= Yemenis] in this hadith.” Ibn al-Subki, Tabaqat al-Shafi‘iyya al-Kubra
(3:364).
3
Ibn al-‘Arabi in ‘Arida al-Ahwadhi states that the word “where” in Abu Razin’s question refers to rank,
not place (al-makâna dûn al-makân), as cited by al-Kawthari in AS (p. 376 n. 2).
4
Narrated from Abu Razîn al-‘Uqayli (Laqit ibn Sabura) by al-Tirmidhi (hasan), Ibn Majah, Ahmad with
two chains, Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, al-Tabarani in al-Kabir (19:207 #468), and others. Al-Tirmidhi added
that Ahmad [ibn Mani‘] the narrator of this hadith said: “Yazid [ibn Harun] said: ‘The mist means there
was nothing with Him.’” All of the above chains, like al-Bayhaqi’s, are through Waki‘ ibn Hudus or ‘Uds
whose rank as a narrator is unknown according to Yahya ibn al-Qattan and al-Dhahabi but whom Ibn Hajar
deemed “acceptable” (maqbûl), i.e. for follow-ups but not for hadiths which he alone reports. Consequently
the chain is weak (da‘îf) as stated by al-Arna’ut in Sahih Ibn Hibban (14:8-10 #6141), al-Hashidi in ASH
(2:235 #801), and al-Albani in Ibn Abi ‘Asim’s al-Sunna (p. 271-272 #612). There is a further problem
with Hammad ibn Salama also being the only one who reports this hadith, as discussed by al-Kawthari in
his marginalia on al-Sayf al-Saqil (p. 109-112). Ibn Qutayba in Mukhtalaf al-Hadith (p. 221) also considers
this narration inauthentic.
5
Al-Mubarakfuri in Tuhfa al-Ahwadhi (8:420) cites al-Khazin’s quotation of al-Bayhaqi’s text followed by
that of al-Suyuti in Misbah al-Zujaja who says: “The qadi Nasir al-Din ibn al-Munayyar said: ‘The
problem of this hadith resides in circumstantiality (al-zarfiyya), aboveness (al-fawqiyya), and belowness
(al-tahtiyya). The answer is that ‘in’ (fî) means ‘over’ (‘alâ), and ‘over’ means ‘establishing dominion’
(istîlâ’). That is: He was in control over (mustawlî ‘alâ) this cloud out of which He created all created
things…. above and under which there was air. It was also narrated with the wording: ‘imâ in shortened
form, which means the non-existence (‘adam) of everything other than Him, as if he were saying: ‘He was
and nothing existed together with Him, rather, everything was non-existent, a blind void, neither existent

3
was air” means “there was air above the cloud”; likewise, “below which there was air” means
“there was air under the cloud.” 6

It was also said that the actual word is ‘imâ – blind void – which means “nothing
determined” (lâ shay’un thâbit), as it is part of what creatures are blind to, because it is other-
than-something, just as he said in the hadith of ‘Imran ibn Husayn . Then he said: “Neither was
there air above it, nor below it (mâ fawqahu wa lâ tahtahu hawâ’).” 7 That is, there was not, above
the blind void which is nothing existent, any air, nor was there below it any air. For if this is
other-than-something, then it cannot possibly be attributed air in any way whatsoever, and Allah
knows best. Abu ‘Ubayd [al-Qasim ibn Sallam] al-Harawi, the author of the two Gharibs said:
“Some of the people of knowledge said that it means ‘Where was the Throne of our Lord?’
phrased elliptically by way of abridgment, as in His saying: And ask the township (12:82) to
mean the people of the township. 8 This is indicated by his saying: ‘His Throne stood over the
water.’” 9

nor seen.’ The ‘air’ is also the vacuum of non-existence (al-farâgh al-‘adam), as if he were saying: ‘He was
and there was nothing with Him, no above, and no below.’”
6
Al-Kawthari read the passage to mean “above which there was no air (mâ fawqahu hawâ’) and below
which there was no air (wa mâ tahtahu hawâ’),” commenting: “This is an explicit proof-text that what is
meant by the cloud (al-sahâb) is not the known cloud which has air above and below it, but an emblematic
cloud (al-sahâb al-ma‘nawî) and the veil which screens [Him] from cognition, as Ibn al-‘Arabi said.” AS
(p. 377 n. 1). This divergent reading shows that some read mâ as a pronoun and others as a negative
particle. Al-Bayhaqi addresses both explanations as possible readings, depending on the meaning not of mâ
but of ‘amâ’/‘imâ.
7
This is similar to the wording cited by Ibn al-Jawzi in Daf‘ Shubah al-Tashbih (1998 Kawthari repr. p.
48): mâ tahtahu hawâ’ wa lâ fawqahu hawâ’.
8
This is not found in the published edition of Ibn Sallam’s Gharib al-Hadith (1:213) which only has: “We
only interpreted this hadith according to the words of the Arabs, which are based on reason. However, we
do not know how that mist was nor its extent, and Allah knows best.” The latter sentence is quoted by Ibn
al-Athir in al-Nihaya. The gloss of “our Lord” as “the Throne of our Lord” is the explanation favored by
Ibn al-Athir in al-Nihaya and the Mu‘tazili al-Zamakhshari in his book al-Fa’iq fi Gharib al-Hadith
(2:186). Ibn al-Athir also quotes al-Azhari’s saying: “We believe in the hadith without qualifying it with
any description.”
9
AS (p. 374-377); ASH (2:233-236). Ibn al-‘Arabi in his commentary on the hadith in ‘Arida al-Ahwadhi
also states that by the Throne all of creation is meant.

4
 “ALLAH IS NOW AS HE
EVER WAS”
by Dr. G. F. Haddad

The saying “Allah existed eternally without a place, and He is now as He ever was” is related –
without chain – from ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib – Allah be well-pleased with him.[1] Ibn ‘Ata’ Allah al-
Sakandari (d. 709) cites it as one of his Hikam (#34).

The Prophet – Allah bless and greet him – said: “Allah was when there was nothing else than
Him, and His Throne was upon the water, and He wrote in the Reminder (al-dhikr) all things, and
He created the heavens and the earth.”[2]

Imam Abu Hanifa (d. 150) said: “Had He been in a place and needing to sit and rest
before creating the Throne, then the question ‘Where was Allah?’ would have applied to Him,
which is impossible.”[3]

The Ash‘ari Imam Ibn ‘Abd al-Salam said in his statement of doctrine:

He was before He brought place and time into existence, and He is now as He ever was.[4]

The position of Imam Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari is similarly summed up by Abu al-Qasim
ibn ‘Asakir:

The Najjariyya said: ‘The Creator is in every place without in-dwel-ling (hulûl) nor direction
(jiha).’ The Hashwiyya and mushab-biha said: ‘The Creator took His place (hâllun) on the
Throne, the Throne is His location (makân), and He is sitting on top of it.’ Al-Ash‘ari took a
middle ground and said: ‘Allah existed when there was no place; then He created the Throne and
the kursî without ever being in need of place, and He is, after creating place, exactly as He was
before creating it.’[5]

5
 This is the position of al-Ash‘ari also as given by Ibn Jahbal al-Kilabi (d. 733): “The
words of the Shaykh [Abu al-Hasan al-Ash‘ari] concerning di-rection are: ‘Allah was when there
was no place, then He created the Throne and the kursî, without ever needing place, and He is,
after creating place, exactly as He was before creating it.’”[6] Ibn Jahbal also says in his
Refutation of Ibn Taymiyya:

22. We say: Our doctrine is that Allah is pre-eternal and pre-existent (qadîm azalî). He does not
resemble anything nor does anything resemble Him. He has no direction nor place. He is not
subject to time nor duration. Neither “where” (ayn) nor “at” (hayth) applies to Him. He shall be
seen, but not as part of an encounter, nor in the sense of an encounter (yurâ lâ ‘an muqâbala wa lâ
‘alâ muqâbala). He was when there was no place, He created place and time, and He is now as He
ever was. This is the madhhab of Ahl al-Sunna and the doctrine of the shaykhs of the [Sufi] Path
– may Allah be well-pleased with them.[7]

30. Muhammad ibn Mahbub, Abu ‘Uthman al-Maghribi’s servant, said: “Abu ‘Uthman said to
me one day: ‘O Muhammad! If someone asked you: Where is the One you worship, what would
you an-swer?’ I said: ‘I would answer: He is where He never ceased to be.’ He said: ‘What if he
asked: Where was He in pre-eternity?’ I said: ‘I would answer: Where He is now. That is: He was
when there was no place, and He is now as He ever was.’ Abu ‘Uthman was pleased with my
answer. He took off his shirt and gave it to me.”[8]

Ibn Hazm said in his Tawhid:

And [it is obligatory to know] that He, the Most High, is neither in a place nor in a time. Rather,
He is the creator of times and places. He – Most High – said: [He has created everything and has
meted out for it a measure] (25:2) and [Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is
between them] (25:59), and both time and place are created. He – Most High – was ever without
them. Place is only for bodies while time is only a duration for every still or moving thing, or
something pertaining to a still or moving object, and all this is pre-cluded from Allah U.[9]

Al-Shaykh al-Akbar Muhyi al-Din ibn ‘Arabi said in the chapter of Islamic doctrine in al-
Futuhat al-Makkiyya:

6
[144] He has no conceivable likeness whatsoever (laysa lahu mithlun ma‘qul), nor can minds
represent Him. Time does not con-fine Him, nor place lift nor transport Him. Rather, He was
when there was no place, and He is now as He ever was.

[145] He created fixity (al-mutamakkin) and place (al-makân),[10] brought time into existence,
and said: “I am the One, the Ever-Living.”[11] Preserving His creations in no way tires Him.
Attributes which do not describe Him and are devised by creatures do not apply to Him.[12]

[146] Exalted is He far above being in-dwelt by originated matters, or indwelling them, or that
they be after Him or that He be before them. Rather, we say: ‘He was and there was nothing with
him.’[13] For the words ‘before’ and ‘after’ are among the locutions of Time, which He
invented.[14]

Sulayman ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1817CE), the grandson
of the founder of the Wahhabi sect, said:

Whoever believes or says: Allah is in person (bi dhâtihi) in every place, or in one place: he is a
disbeliever. It is obligatory to declare that Allah is separate (bâ’in) from His creation, established
over His Throne with-out modality or likeness or exemplariness. Allah was and there was no
place, then He created place and He is exalted as He was before He created place.[15]

The Imams strongly refuted those who suggested that the Throne existed together with
Allah. Among these refutations is al-Bayhaqi’s section entitled “The Beginning of Creation” in
al-Asma’ wa al-Sifat,[16] and Ibn Hajar who wrote the following in his commentary on the
twenty-second chapter of the Book of Tawhid in Sahih al-Bukhari:

Al-Bukhari named the Chapter on the Throne: “Chapter entitled: (And His Throne was upon the
water) (11:7) (And He is Lord of the tremendous Throne) (9:129).” In this way he mentioned
parts from two Qur’anic verses, and it is good to state this second part after the first one, to
respond to those who misunderstood the hadith: “There was Allah, and there was nothing before
Him; and His Throne was upon the water,” mistakenly thinking that it meant that the Throne was
always alongside Allah [i.e. existing without beginning]. This is an incorrect position, as is the
belief of some thinkers that the Throne is the Creator and the Maker! Perhaps those who held this,
such as Abu Ishaq al-Harawi, used for evidence the hadith of ibn Abbas from Mujahid narrated
through Sufyan al-Thawri: “Allah was on His Throne before He created anything; the first thing
He created was the pen,”[17] and this “first” is interpreted as the creation of Heavens and Earth
and their contents.

7
 ‘Abd al-Razzaq mentioned in his commentary on the saying of Allah: (And His Throne was
upon the water) (11:7) that this (the Throne) was the beginning of His creation before He created
the heaven, and that His Throne was made from a red emerald. Thus al-Bukhari’s mention of
“The Lord of the tremendous Throne” alludes to the fact that the Throne is a servant and that it is
lorded over.

He ends his chapter with the hadith: “There, I saw Musa holding the leg of the Throne.”[18] By
confirming that the Throne has legs, the author proves that it is an object that was put together,
possessing constituent parts. Any such object must have been created.[19]

Al-Munawi quotes the following conclusion on the verse of the Throne upon the water:

Al-Tunisi said that the verse (And His Throne was upon the water) (11:7) contains a clear proof
that direction is impossible for Allah I because the Throne settled (istaqarra) upon the water,
there-fore, since natural custom was broken by the settlement of that huge mass (jirm) – the
largest of all masses – upon the water, contrary to the habitual fact that such a mass – or, rather,
much less than it! – does not usually settle upon the water: it becomes known with certitude that
istiwâ’ over it is not an istiwâ’ of settledness nor fixity. [20]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES
[1]As cited by ‘Abd al-Qahir al-Baghdadi (d. 429) in his al-Farq Bayn al-Firaq (p. 256).

[2]Narrated from ‘Imran ibn Husayn by al-Bukhari, Sahih, book of the Beginning of Creation.

[3]Abu Hanifa, Wasiyya al-Imam al-A‘zam Abu Hanifa, ed. Fu’ad ‘Ali Rida (Beirut : Maktabat
al-Jamahir, 1970) p. 10.

[4]Ibn ‘Abd al-Salam, al-Mulha (p. 11).

[5]In the Tabyin (Saqqa ed. p. 150).

[6]In Tabaqat al-Shafi‘iyya al-Kubra (9:79).

8
[7]In Tabaqat al-Shafi‘iyya al-Kubra (9:41). Concerning muqâbala al-Qari said in Sharh al-Fiqh
al-Akbar (p. 180): “One must not pay any attention to what the innovators imagine on rational
bases, and the commentator of al-Tahawi’s ‘Aqida [i.e. Ibn Abi al-‘Izz or Ibn al-Qayyim in Sharh
al-‘Aqida al-Tahawiyya (p. 195)] committed a mistake in this regard when he said: ‘Can any
vision be rationally conceived without face-to-face encounter? And in it there is a proof for His
elevation (‘uluw) over His creatures.’ It seems that he applies the upward direction to his Lord,
whereas the doctrine of Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama‘a is that He – exalted is He – is not seen in any
direction. The Prophet’s e saying: ‘You shall see your Lord just as you see the moon on the night
it is full’ [Narrated from Abu Hurayra by al-Tirmidhi (hasan gharîb) and Abu Hanifa in his
Musnad and, in a slightly different wording, from Jarir ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Bajali by al-Bukhari
and Muslim] is a simile (tashbîh) between two types of sightings generally speaking, not a simile
between two objects of vision from every perspective.” Ibn Abi al-‘Izz – purportedly a Hanafi –
said in Sharh al-‘Aqida al-Tahawiyya (p. 195): “Who-ever claims that Allah is seen without
direction, let him verify his reason!” Note the latter’s casual dismissal of – and deviation from –
Imam al-Tahawi’s position in the ‘Aqida (§35. “The Seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden
is true, without their vision being all-encompassing and without the manner of their vision being
known.” §38 “He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or
limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are”) and Imam Abu
Hanifa’s position in al-Wasiyya (p. 3-4): “The meeting (liqâ’) of Allah I with the dwellers of
Paradise is without modality, nor simile, nor direction.” (Liqâ’ Allâh ta‘âlâ li ahl al-janna bi al-
ru’ya al-basariyya bilâ kayf wa lâ tashbîh wa lâ jiha), cited by al-Qari in Sharh al-Fiqh al-Akbar
(p. 176-177). Imam al-Haramayn said in al-Irshad (p. 167): “Among their [the Mu‘tazila’s]
insinuations are claims that stem, in fact, from pure specu-lation, such as their saying: ‘one who
sees must be facing opposite what he sees, or virtually facing’ (al-râ’î yajib an yakûna muqâbilan
li al-mar’î aw fî hukm al-muqâbil). We say to them: Do you know for certain what you are
claiming, or do you know it on specula-tive bases? If they claim that they know it for certain and
accuse whoever disagrees with them of denial, their credibility collapses and their untruth
becomes manifest. The same reasoning applies to the anthropomorphists…. And the Creator sees
His creation without direction, therefore it is possible that He be seen without direction.”

[8]In Tabaqat al-Shafi‘iyya al-Kubra (9:43). See also al-Tabari’s comments in our post titled
“The Seating of the Prophet – Allah bless and greet him – on the Throne, section entitled “al-
Tabari’s Defense of Mujahid’s Narration” at notes 49-50.

[9]In Ahmad al-Hijazi Saqqa, ed. ‘Ilm al-Kalam ‘ala Madhhab Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama‘a (p. 65-
66).

[10]Or: “He created place and all that takes place.”

[11]I.e. I am in no need of either of you.

[12]Lâ tarji‘u ilayhi sifatun lam yakun ‘alayhâ min sun‘ati al-masnû‘ât.

[13]See n. 2 above.

[14]From ‘Uthman Yahya’s edition of al-Futuhat al-Makkiyya (1:164), Part Three of “The
Meccan Conquest,” chapter entitled “Attachment Comprising the Essential Creed of All, Which
is the Doctrine of the People of Islam Agreed To Without Examining the Proof Nor the
Presentation of Evidence.”

9
[15]In his al-Tawdih ‘an Tawhid al-Khallaq fi Jawab Ahl al-‘Iraq (1319/1901, p. 34, and new ed.
al-Riyad: Dar Tibah, 1984).

[16]See our published translation of al-Bayhaqi’s Asma’ wa al-Sifat (ASFA).

[17]Narrated from Mujahid from Ibn ‘Abbas by ‘Abd ibn Humayd as mentioned by al-Suyuti in
al-Durr al-Manthur for the verse (Lo! We have created every thing by measure) (54:49).

[18]Part of a longer hadith narrated from Abu Hurayra by al-Bukhari, al-Tirmidhi (hasan sahîh),
and Ibn Majah; and from Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri by al-Bukhari, Muslim, and Ahmad.

[19]Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari (1959 ed. 13:409f.). Ibn Hajar elsewhere (6:290 #3019) examines the
different versions of the hadith “Allah was and there was nothing other than/ with/ before Him” to
conclude that the evidence pointed to the creation of water first, then the Throne, then the Pen.

[20]In al-Munawi, Fayd al-Qadir, under the entry for the hadith: “Allah inscribed the desti-nies of
all created things before creating the heavens and the earth by fifty thou-sand years, while His
Throne stood upon the water.” Narrated from ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘As by Muslim in his
Sahih.

10