Tillis Jailhouse Confession Transcript Part 1

1
1 PRE-TRIAL DETENTION FACILITY AUDIO RECORDING BETWEEN
2 SAMMIE EVANS AND RUSSELL TILLIS RECORDED
3 FEBRUARY 5, 2016
4
5 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: Did you figure it out?
6 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right. It's on.
7 Time is 1305, 1:05. Today's date is 2/5/16.
8 Detective Dennis Sullivan and Glenn Warkentien, we
9 are here with Sammie Evans to place the recording
10 device on him. That's the microphone.
11 (Music playing in the background.)
12 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: You got pockets on the
13 side here by chance?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Nuh-huh.
15 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right. If it comes
16 off -- it should be all right, but if it comes off,
17 throw it in a pocket on your shirt.
18 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: You wanna take it cross
19 ways like that?
20 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Um.
21 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: Go cross like that.
22 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Yes. Push it down there.
23 I'm gonna put this one here, because it's --
24 (unintelligible) --
25 SAMMIE EVANS: I think will hold.

2
1 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right.
2 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: It comes out just slide
3 it in a pocket somewhere else.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: All right.
5 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: You got socks on?
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah.
7 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: It's sensitive you can
8 put in your sock or if you have to, but obviously
9 you want to closer --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: Right.
11 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- if you can. Just
12 before we go, since all this is on, we'll make sure
13 you came to us voluntarily; is that correct?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Correct.
15 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Did Detective Warkentien
16 or anyone with Jacksonville Sheriff's Office make
17 you any promises of your assistance?
18 SAMMIE EVANS: No, they didn't.
19 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Okay. Everything you're
20 doing, again, is freely of your own will and you
21 reached out to us. We didn't even know you
22 before --
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Correct.
24 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- the other day, right?

3
1 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Okay. Go ahead and have
2 a seat.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: Okay.
4 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: The time was what we
5 said, 1:05. Four to six hours, okay?
7 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: If it happens after that,
8 I can't guarantee it won't be on there, so just be
9 cognizant of the time if you see the time is on
10 there.
12 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right. Let's ride --
13 or walk.
14 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: We'll come back up to
15 grab it.
16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: 629.
17 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: I'll be right back. Get
18 out that sun you'll be all right. Just to let you
19 know, too, while we were in there --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: Uh-huh.
21 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- Ebron did do his plea.
22 He got 20.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, yeah?
24 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Yeah. He had to read a
25 letter to the Court, so --

4
2 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- and admitted to him and
3 the girl were negligent and the kid drowned in the
4 tub.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. I heard they was gonna
6 hit him with some more charges on unrelated junk.
7 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Really?
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, so that 20, would it mean
9 that -- because they were gonna slam him on some
10 more stuff.
11 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Really?
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. That's what I heard.
13 (Someone's singing.)
14 SAMMIE EVANS: We over here on this side?
15 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Which side? You can go
16 over there.
18 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The one in the red
19 jumpsuit.
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Thought he would sit out
21 here and take this off and go back to your floor.
22 (Background chitchat.)
23 SAMMIE EVANS: 22.
24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: He came back from court.
25 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: I'm going to take these

5
1 off, okay?
3 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: I'm put these handcuffs
4 on just keep your hands to your back, all right?
6 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We can go up here and let
7 him take them chains off.
8 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Okay.
9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: (Laughing.)
10 SAMMIE EVANS: We going back?
11 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: -- (unintelligible) --
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, he said I could go.
13 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: He said you could go?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, he said I can go.
15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Wait a minute, we got a
16 female in there.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, okay.
18 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yo, yo.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: I'm going to the 5th.
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: All right.
21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Ma'am, come on off.
22 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Okay.
23 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: That's on a lower level.
24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Two.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: (Singing.) Don't stop

6
1 believing. Okay.
2 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I'll see you over there
3 when I'm finished.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: All right. Yeah. (Laughing.)
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah. I been over in attorney
7 visit.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: The police came here? Who told
10 you to take me down?
11 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The police.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Which one, Blount?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: So y'all got them new sheep.
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, them new ones -- I ain't
17 complaining, but them new ones be kind of stiff,
18 man. I need -- I need to holler at you after I
19 take a leak.
20 (Using the facilities.)
21 SAMMIE EVANS: What's going on, Tillis? I
22 want to know if you can help me with this, um, this
23 motion. I'm probably gonna have to find a table to
24 clean off before I can get into it, but I know by
25 you having that one, um, that hearing to introduce

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1 evidence, you'll be familiar with it. And, um,
2 that's what I got going on right now. I'll
3 probably just sit in here for a little while.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: What motion is it?
5 SAMMIE EVANS: I got a motion to suppress that
6 I wanted to get help on and I got a motion to
7 introduce evidence and, um, I just -- I just done a
8 motion to produce favorable evidence. I don't know
9 if they'll go forward it, but it's worth a shot,
10 though. I was at attorney visit just now.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: And my attorney, she had went
13 over some things with me. First, she was gonna
14 show me some interviews where the defendant had
15 called in some witnesses on their behalf. And --
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: She's helping you, ain't she?
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I mean she's working
18 good, but the laptop wouldn't work at first and so
19 that's what I was over there sitting there waiting
20 on and then they had that Ebron thing going on.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: I didn't know that.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, they got that going on.
23 I heard he just went over there and read a letter
24 in open court and he took a plea agreement and it's
25 supposably for 20, but I don't know.

8
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's kind of steep.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, so... so they finally got
3 the laptop to work and I seen this girl. They kept
4 asking me did I know her. They were like, man, you
5 know this girl name Alexander and I'm like, no, I
6 don't know Alexander. I don't know no Alexander.
7 This was my attorney was asking me, you know,
8 so I had no reason to lie to her. I told her I
9 don't know no Alexander, but then come to find out
10 when they let me see her, I knew exact who they was
11 talking about. I always knew her as Alexis,
12 though. I never knew her as Alexander and so she
13 ain't really say nothing that could, um, that could
14 be harmful to me. She just basically told the
15 truth, you know what I'm saying?
17 SAMMIE EVANS: So I really wasn't worried
18 about her, but what I was focused on was asking my
19 attorney questions as far as dealing with the lack
20 of subject matter jurisdiction and things like
21 that. Because I'm like, man, we can get into the
22 charges, but before we get into the charges, I want
23 to get into the arrest, you know what I'm saying?
25 SAMMIE EVANS: I want to get into the arrest

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1 and attack everything on the front end that way,
2 you know, we may not even have to go, you know, as
3 far as what, um, what we think we do.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: You know what I'm saying?
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: You attack that early --
7 (unintelligible) -- like that.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, that Ebron guy, man, they
9 said, um, he -- he -- he said basically he was
10 saying he didn't do anything malicious or anything.
11 He was saying, um, the baby drowned, you know. So,
12 I guess, after the baby drowned or maybe he was
13 scared or maybe wanting to help the girl he was in
14 love with -- the girl or whatever.
15 And I don't know -- I don't know what they're
16 going to do with the girl. But, um, he was saying
17 that the baby drowned, so I don't know if they
18 discarded the baby by throwing it on the side of
19 the road or if, um, if they -- if they buried him,
20 you know what I'm saying? But they say he took --
21 he took him to the location or whatever and he got
22 a little deal out of it.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I heard that, too.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, you had heard something
25 like that?
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1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah, I kind of gossip
2 going around.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, that's basically what I
4 heard as far as gossip, too. But I did hear an
5 officer saying that it was a lot of publicity and
6 junk behind it and it was a big day today, so it
7 are, you know, that kind of corroborated what I was
8 hearing as far as him making a deal today.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: You know, they do sentencings
11 on Fridays and junk.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: Uh-huh.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Shit like that weighs on his
15 conscious, too, I would imagine. You know, any
16 time you put somebody in the ground or get rid of
17 them like that, it will weigh on your conscious for
18 a long time.
19 So maybe that's what prompted him to say
20 something to them, you know, not only to get the
21 deal for himself, but, also, get off on whatever
22 was bothering him.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, I ain't never took
24 nothing that far, you know, but I have done some
25 things, you know, that weighed on my conscious as

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1 well, you know. Like even stealing, you know what
2 I'm saying --
4 SAMMIE EVANS: -- out of my parent's wallet or
5 purse or something, you know?
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, people deal with it in
7 different ways, too.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- (unintelligible) -- it
10 weighs on your conscious --
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- pretty bad.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: I copied that motion for D
15 and he -- (unintelligible) --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I know y'all was working
17 on a motion yesterday or whatever and, um, that's
18 what I was on -- that's what I was gonna come to
19 you about today. Because of -- after talking to my
20 attorney, we already, you know, pretty much know
21 what direction we want to go into.
22 But with her being so busy, I try to do a lot
23 of things on my own. And I don't want to just rely
24 on her, you know, I want to -- I want to do as much
25 as I can, too, to free myself.

12
2 SAMMIE EVANS: And I really strongly feel
3 like, you know, if this motion was granted, maybe
4 we would be able to work some type of deal out.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. But I already know that
7 you may have experience with the motion that I
8 wanted to use, because I remember you dealing with
9 something like that that happened last month or the
10 month before.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: So you done with helping D?
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I finished with that.
14 My misdemeanor attorney contacted me --
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and gave me some odd news
17 about that property over there that I own.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's scheduled for
20 demolition.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: The entire property?
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, just for the structure
23 on the property and they're gonna tear the building
24 down.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah?

13
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: And --
2 SAMMIE EVANS: You talking the residence?
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, the house. See, once
4 they arrested me, they -- the neighbors had been on
5 my ass, on my ass for years.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I remember you told me
7 you had some really nasty neighbors.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I had a hard time with
9 them, but, anyway, once I was arrested on this
10 charge here and put in jail, then the neighbors
11 continued to pursue the City to condemn the
12 property --
13 SAMMIE EVANS: That's being little -- man,
14 that's spiteful.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- to demolition [sic] the
16 house. They got their own agenda. Whatever it be,
17 I'm not sure. But anyway I got the thinking today,
18 um, just 'cause they were gonna demolition [sic]
19 that building, I don't know if my brother is aware
20 of it or what's going on with him, but --
21 SAMMIE EVANS: What's going on?
22 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Hey, what's going on?
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- they brought that --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: I was gonna tell you, but I was
25 gonna wait a day that way I don't have to say it

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1 twice.
2 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: All right.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- I didn't -- I don't know
4 if my brother's aware of it or not. I was kind of
5 hoping he was. I didn't know whether to write him
6 or -- or just leave it alone, you know. I figured,
7 you know, once they go over there and start plowing
8 around on that property, they gonna find something
9 anyway, you know.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, 'cause I don't know how
12 extensive the demolition will be. I don't know if
13 he knows it's occurring or what he thinks is gonna
14 happen as far as my brother.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Man, maybe -- maybe you want to
18 contact him, but you might be want to be careful
19 about writing a letter, you know?
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm scared to contact him and
21 say anything.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Or not to say something.
24 It's kind of like them catch 22s, you know.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: Has he ever came up here to see

15
1 you?
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: No.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. I was about to say, if
4 he come to see you, you could probably write it on
5 a piece of paper and put it on the glass or
6 something.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Maybe something like
8 that, yeah.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. But I don't think you --
10 I don't think you wanna write him a letter, you
11 know, I definitely don't think talking to him on
12 the phone would be the best idea.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well --
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Do you have a way to contact
15 him?
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I could write him, but
17 writing letters is the only way. I can't call him.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I mean he knows what's
20 on that property over there.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He knows what's there and he
23 knows the situation, too.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: But I don't really -- I

16
1 assume he knows they're fixing to demolition [sic]
2 that house.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. So --
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: He might just think -- my
5 brother's got kind of a strange kind of thinking
6 pattern.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's kind of like he
9 doesn't -- I guess, if he isn't actually -- his
10 name is not involved or he's not actually doing it,
11 then he feels like he didn't do nothing or
12 something or I don't know or maybe it won't come
13 back to bite him in the ass.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's got his chop shop out
16 back.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: As long as he don't steal the
19 vehicles, if people bring them there, you know,
20 stolen, than that's okay. He's doesn't mind
21 chopping them up and using the pieces.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: But he justifies it by not
24 actually stealing the vehicle itself. Well, I
25 didn't do nothing, I just got the parts, you know,

17
1 but the fucking car is stolen. Just like that
2 property over there, you know what I mean?
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I mean the property is
5 not in his name, but -- but what's on that property
6 can be tied to him in some way, you know? He's not
7 completely oblivious to what's there and how it got
8 there and the whole situation, you know what I
9 mean?
10 SAMMIE EVANS: When you first told me about
11 him, I kind of took him as the type of guy that
12 was, you know, thinking that he was holier than
13 thou when you told me, you know, he tried to get on
14 to you for doing dope and then you'd be look at
15 you.
16 You think I'm stupid. I know about all -- I
17 know what's going on. I see all these different
18 vehicles over here and all this different stuff
19 over here or whatever.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: People -- people try to
21 justify their own, you know what I mean?
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, people --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: But one thing isn't better than
25 the next.
18
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But they don't -- you
2 know what I mean that's what I'm trying to stop to
3 nobody pointing the finger, you know what I mean,
4 because shit, I do it.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: I know I'm fucking dirty.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: I been dirty for a long time,
9 you know.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: But -- (unintelligible) --
12 you know what I mean. I was picking girls up and
13 locking them up in that room and he would come over
14 and fuck her, but that was okay. He didn't mind if
15 they were there locked up in the room and you know
16 what I mean?
17 SAMMIE EVANS: He didn't have nothing to say
18 about that.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, that was okay. He didn't
20 mind that when he just come over and fuck them. I
21 wasn't doing nothing but fucking them.
22 SAMIE EVANS: Yeah.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: But, goddamn, you know what
24 time it is. You know I locked the fuck girl up in
25 there and you know that I rent her out and I got
19
1 other guys coming over here and fucking her, too,
2 and paying me, you know.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: He want to do it for free.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, yeah, but I ain't
5 charge him nothing. That wasn't really the point.
6 The point is that he justified in his mind that,
7 hey, it's okay.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, in his mind he thinks
9 it's okay, because --
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm just fucking her. I
11 didn't pick her up and I didn't kill the bitch. I
12 mean, I didn't cut her up and get rid of her or
13 nothing like that. So, you know, you did that. I
14 didn't do that.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm just fucking her.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: But that last time when he
19 came over there and he, um -- well, the ole boy,
20 one of the guys, Jimmie that had been coming over
21 there. Jimmie had a little money now. He would
22 come over there and one night we were out there
23 getting high and I picked up a little blond.
24 Actually, I picked up a little blond and put
25 her in a room there and kept her for about a week

20
1 and fucked her and fucked her and fucked her and I
2 let her go. But she was kinda of the mentality you
3 could let her go and she wouldn't say nothing,
4 she'd just go on about her business.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. I was sitting here
6 thinking in my head, man, you got to know who you
7 dealing with to know -- to let them go and then not
8 come back and bite you in the butt.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: You would think they would,
10 but a lot of girls do. You would be surprised.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: So, anyway, one of them I had
13 let go, I picked up a little blond and I had her in
14 there and one day -- one night me and Jimmie was
15 over there and me and him was getting high. And
16 I -- I was -- I said something to Jimmie about her
17 and he said, well, let me fuck her, let me fuck
18 her.
19 And at first I told him no. She was a pretty
20 little girl, now. And then he said, well, I'll pay
21 you. I gave him a -- I let him fuck her and he
22 gave me a couple hundred dollars. So I figured,
23 shit, that's okay.
24 And then I was over at my brother's later, and
25 he and I were talking about it and he said, well,

21
1 let me fuck her. So my brother comes over and
2 fucked her a couple times. And then he left, but
3 Jimmie come back over about a week later and, I
4 guess, shit, this was the early part of -- I don't
5 know probably about '14, 2014 or somewhere around
6 there. I don't remember exact dates.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I came in '14.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I was still on the
9 street. Jimmie come over there --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: So you ain't been in here that
11 long?
13 SAMMIE EVANS: Six or seven months.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- about a year, ten months.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: But Jimmie come over there a
17 second time and was gonna fuck her and, um, the
18 room I had her in, she -- (unintelligible) -- but
19 Jimmie goes back there to fuck her and he beats the
20 shit out of her while he's fucking her, man.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: Like torture or something?
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Torture, yeah. He breaks her
23 fucking cheek bone and breaks her nose and some of
24 her teeth out and he beat the dog shit out of her.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang.

22
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: And then I get on his ass. I
2 was like, goddamn, what are you doing, Jimmie?
3 SAMMIE EVANS: Is that how he get off or
4 something?
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: And, I guess, he's a freak
6 like that.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. That's why he pays me
9 to come over there, because he can be rough with
10 her and he don't have no repercussions.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, she
13 don't go tell on him to the police.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: And he don't go to jail.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So I tell him, damn,
16 Jimmie, you know, you done messed her up. I can't
17 keep her. So then he says -- he agreed to pay me,
18 so he gave me $400 and what the hell can I do with
19 her, man?
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: After that --
22 SAMMIE EVANS: She had to go to the hospital
23 or something?
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, man, I killed that bitch.
25 I cut her up and took her down the street. I got a

23
1 little place down the street where I put her, you
2 know what I mean?
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I put her in the ground.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Was she doped up?
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, not really.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, boy.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: But, um, so we went out -- I
9 put her in the ground and then I -- I don't know --
10 about couple days or a week so later, I pick up
11 another one, a little brunette and she -- she
12 wasn't very -- wasn't very submissive. Yeah, she
13 was a little fighter. She wasn't --
14 SAMMIE EVANS: She fight the whole time?
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So I put her in the
16 room and I fucked her for about a week, but she was
17 the kind of girl you couldn't let her go. You
18 know, she had the mentality you couldn't.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: You couldn't break her spirit?
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. Exactly, couldn't break
21 her. So Jimmie came over there one night and he
22 fucked her. And there was another one, David, he
23 paid me every now and then, too, you know,
24 depending on what kind of girl I had over there.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: He was pretty picky?

24
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, exactly, yeah. He was
2 kind of picky, but he didn't have much money
3 either, so. But Jimmie had a little money.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Well, beggars can't be
5 choosers, man. If he didn't have enough money, you
6 know.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you know, he -- so the
8 ole girl, she was kind of -- she was kind of
9 defiant, you know?
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I finally had to -- I
12 finally had to get rid of her, right?
13 SAMMIE EVANS: Would you keep them blindfolded
14 or they just --
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, no. I just fucking --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: So you let them see -- see?
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly. But, see, I didn't
18 have no intention on letting her go.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, okay. That's what I'm
20 thinking. I'm like he can't be planning to let 'em
21 go, if you let them see the location and the faces.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: The first girl I had in
23 there, she seen me and I fucked her, but she had
24 that mentality that you can let her go and she
25 wasn't gonna say nothing.

25
1 SAMMIE EVANS: So you pretty much had to judge
2 'em --
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly, yeah.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: -- on an individual basis.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, but ole brunette, she
6 was real defiant. She -- there was no fucking way
7 she was going to -- she was going to just walk away
8 without saying anything. So I fucking killed her
9 ass and put her -- cut her up and down there with
10 the little blond. But, um, they -- they --
11 SAMMIE EVANS: So you go after like younger
12 girls or it pretty much didn't matter the age as
13 long as she was attractive?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. If she was good
15 lookin', yeah.
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Because I had a picture in my
17 head they was probably younger or something.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, they -- just as long as
19 they was good lookin', you know. But I had a spot
20 down the street I was putting them, you know what I
21 mean?
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: And so I -- when she wasn't
24 very -- wasn't very submissive --

26
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and I had to put her down
2 there, too.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Then I had --
5 SAMMIE EVANS: So why you had to cut her up?
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you -- in order to --
7 to move her. You know how hard it is to move a
8 dead body?
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. I never -- I never
10 thought about that, but I know --
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- (unintelligible) -- have
12 to move her.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, man, I know that got
14 messy, don't it? That had to be gruesome.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: It took a long time, put it
16 that way. Not that it was that messy. I had a big
17 garage to work in and I had the facility.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: And so it wasn't -- it wasn't
20 really that messy. But I couldn't move the body
21 from point A to point B, unless I cut the
22 motherfucker up.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: See, I never thought about that
24 part.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Once you cut it up,

27
1 it's easy to move it.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. It's easier to carry.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But then, I guess,
4 about the fourth or fifth girl I picked up, um, a
5 little brunette, and my brother, he was pestering
6 me then, you got any ole gal over there, la, la,
7 la?
8 So I picked that girl up. Now, she was real
9 pretty. She was about 26 or 8, a little brunette,
10 nice looking. She was real submissive. Jimmie
11 come over and fucked her a couple times. I been
12 fucking her for about a week and so my brother came
13 one day --
14 SAMMIE EVANS: He came and beat her up like he
15 did the last one?
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Well, my brother asked
17 me one day about coming over there and fucking her.
18 And I told him, yeah, you can come over and fuck if
19 you want to. But that morning, Jimmie had -- he
20 had given me four boxes of Sudafed and wanted me to
21 cook him a quarter ounce of fucking meth.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Right. He gave me $300, $350
24 to cook it. All I do -- all I do is cook the dope.

28
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I don't supply the
2 ingredients, I just cook it for him. He gave me
3 about $350. But he come over that morning and gave
4 me four boxes and wanted a quarter ounce, so I told
5 him, I said, yeah, yeah, I'll cook it for you, I'll
6 cook it for you. Let me get back with you that
7 night.
8 And that day my brother was going to come over
9 and fuck the ole girl, but when he got over there,
10 the fucking girl recognizes him. She knew him from
11 somewhere. How's that for fucking luck, huh?
12 SAMMIE EVANS: (Laughing.)
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah --
14 SAMMIE EVANS: As big as this city is, man.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, my brother fucking
16 freaked out, man, he's real -- like I say, he's
17 real -- that motherfucker he can talk. Man, he's
18 got a gift of gab from hell.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. And act -- you would
21 think he was a deacon at the church.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: And the whole time he's
24 picking your pocket and taking your money.

29
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, he can talk.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: And he got a hell of an act
4 to go with it.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: So she recognizes my fucking
7 brother, right?
8 SAMMIE EVANS: And what he does? He screams
9 on rip?
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Heck, yeah. He freaks out.
11 He says, man, you gotta kill that bitch. I said
12 hold up, man, hold up. She's making me money.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Jimmie was in love with her,
15 man.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: He done gave me $300 one time
18 to fuck her. I said, wait up, man, that girl's
19 making me a lot of money, man. I don't want to get
20 rid of her.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: You can't -- you can't keep
23 her. I said I ain't gonna let her go, man.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: She ain't gonna get away,

30
1 man, don't worry about it, don't worry about it.
2 She -- nah, something's gonna happen if that bitch
3 was to say my name. Then he starts getting
4 scared --
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- because he then it wasn't
7 nobody that me and him, you know.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's what I was telling
10 you. He's okay as long as nobody knows what he's
11 doing.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: As long as his hands are clean.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Now, since it's
16 outside of me and him, she's done seen him.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: She knows I picked the bitch
19 up, I got it sound proof, and she knows what's
20 going on.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: She know what time it is.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I got a couple guys
23 over there coming over there and fucking her and
24 they're paying me, you know what I mean. And she's
25 fucking locked up in a sound-proof room and all the

31
1 sudden she recognizes my brother.
2 My brother, he's like, man, you gotta kill
3 that bitch. And I'm like, hey, I don't want to
4 kill her, right. So he tells me, he says, look --
5 and then I tell him I said, look, man, I got
6 something I got to do this afternoon, referring to
7 cooking the dope for Jimmie.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't have time to get
10 involved in that right now. Let's just put it off
11 for a couple days. Nah, nah, nah, nah, he didn't
12 want to leave. Nah, nah, nah, I can't leave, man,
13 you got to kill her before I can leave. I said,
14 well, you kill her, man. You take care of it.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: And I'll get rid of her. I
17 don't know how -- how -- then he gets fucking --
18 starts that talk game or whatever and talks me out
19 of it. So he talked me into killing her and I told
20 him, I said, look, man, I'll kill her, but you cut
21 her up.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I was about to say, he
23 would have had to do his own dirty work.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'll kill her, but you gotta
25 cut her up, man. I don't have time. It takes

32
1 about four or five hours to do that to cut her up
2 and package her, so I can move her.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: And he said, okay, okay,
5 we'll do it that way. We can do it that way. So I
6 killed the, bitch, right?
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: And he -- so I gave him the
9 Sawzall and a fucking 10-inch all-purpose blade and
10 I tell him hang her up in the garage and tell him
11 look, man, just cut her up, man. Just cut her arms
12 off and cut her legs off and get her down to the
13 torso and leave her on the plastic. I said, I'll
14 take care of that.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: So you wrap them up in plastic?
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you cut each limb off
17 and you bag it in a trash bag that way you can put
18 it in the backpack. Shit, I can ride a bicycle
19 down the street and dispose of that.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's easy to haul out.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: Right. I see what you're
23 saying.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So, anyway, he talked
25 me into killing her. I kill her. I gave him

33
1 Sawzall. He cuts her fucking head off and then he
2 gets all squeamish and I got to get back to the
3 shop. My wife's over there and I got a customer
4 coming and I got a car that I got to put out, blah,
5 blah, blah, blah, I can't stay. He's just talking
6 now to get out of it, because he don't want to fuck
7 with it no more.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: He probably can't stomach it.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well -- (unintelligible) --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: He didn't puke or nothing?
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, he didn't puke then.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: He just didn't want to do it.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Maybe that is what got the
14 best of him. He was getting his hands dirty. I
15 don't know what the fuck it was, but once he got
16 passed the head, he couldn't -- he wasn't down with
17 it no more. I don't wanna --
18 SAMMIE EVANS: Is the saw electric or you just
19 gotta do it manually?
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Just an electric Sawzall.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So I -- he got --
23 we -- he didn't want to fuck with it no more, so he
24 I tell him, I say you created a lot of work for me
25 do now. So I told --
34
1 SAMMIE EVANS: How you dig a hole without
2 drawing attention to anything?
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, the place I have down
4 the street, it's a little wooded area.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: What about how deep, you know,
6 without having no animals digging it up or smelling
7 it when you riding by?
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: When I have -- I don't have
9 any animals on my property, but down four foot, the
10 animals don't fuck with her.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's kind of a wetland.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: So they don't fuck with it --
15 the animals don't --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: They can't get to it.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, exactly, yeah. So
18 anyway, he fucking cuts her fucking head off and
19 then he gets all squeamish and so I fucking finish
20 doing it, right. And then I decide to put her down
21 in my yard instead of taking it down the street,
22 you know what I mean? So I -- I dug a hole in the
23 fucking backyard to put her down.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, but I

35
1 didn't --
2 SAMMIE EVANS: But, listen, if -- if she -- if
3 she's going to be on the property, why you have to
4 cut her up, I mean, don't you have a privacy gate?
6 SAMMIE EVANS: So you can just drag her around
7 like you want.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But, see, I didn't
9 intend on putting her in the yard.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: I intended on taking her and
12 putting her down there and putting her with the
13 other two.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's why I wanted him to
16 cut her up and put her in the bag.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: To travel with her.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So what I was gonna do
19 was --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: But you was in a rush, because
21 you had to cook that dope, huh?
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I was gonna go in
23 there and set the dope -- set the dope up, start
24 not to cook it, but just get ready --
25 SAMMIE EVANS: I was about to say --

36
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- while he was cutting her
2 up.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: I was about to say, if you
4 start to cook, you might burn down the property.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: I was gonna let him cut her
6 ass up and do all that while I was getting ready
7 with the dope.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: And then I would -- I would
10 have time to just move her down there and put her
11 up with the other two.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, with the other two
14 I got in the ground down there, right, because I
15 got a good spot down there to put them
16 motherfuckers.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: I -- ain't nobody -- nobody
19 gonna --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: I was thinking about that. I
21 was thinking, man, you got to have -- you got to
22 know what you doing for one and you got to have a
23 good hiding spot to last this long --
25 SAMMIE EVANS: -- and nobody ever find out

37
1 anything.
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's been about
3 two-and-a-half years.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Man, guys get caught all the
5 time trying to do --
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: See, that's why they're
7 trying demolition [sic] that property right now.
8 They fixing to demolition [sic] that property and I
9 don't know if my brother is aware of that shit. He
10 might be. He's probably aware of it and been going
11 over there, but he doesn't know the exact location
12 of where she's at --
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- only that she's in the
15 backyard.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: You follow me?
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: He can't go back there and
20 put his fucking finger and say, hey, she's right
21 there four foot down.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you never gave him the
23 details.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. Because, see, when he
25 left, I got pissed off at him.

38
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, I didn't have time,
3 so I thought, fuck it, I'll just bury her in the
4 backyard. So I fucking buried her in the backyard,
5 right.
6 But the next day I come over to his fucking
7 house talking shit to him telling him, man, you
8 cost me money, time, you know, and, um, I was up
9 half the night trying to cook the dope, so he'd pay
10 me for that.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: He got it made. He just come
12 over there and get laid and leave.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, well, yeah. He had
14 been doing that for a while, but like I say, see,
15 as long as he wasn't doing anything, he didn't
16 think it was -- he was committing a crime --
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- until the girl recognized
19 him, then he got freaked out. And the he's like
20 kill the bitch. But he, you know, at first, he on
21 that -- he thought I ain't killing her, I'll cut
22 her up, I'll do that. I'll cut her up for you, but
23 I don't want to kill her.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: But you want her dead. You
25 don't want to kill her, but you want her dead.

39
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Right. He just wanted her
2 shut up is what he wanted.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Because he was afraid that
5 she would get --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: She would get out.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- out and point the fucking
8 finger at him and this would catch up --
9 SAMMIE EVANS: -- (unintelligible) --
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: And hell everything --
11 (unintelligible) -- he would be end up in prison
12 the rest of his life.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: His freedom and everything.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: And he would never get out of
15 it. He would never get out of it. You got a
16 witness on the stand saying, yeah, you did that,
17 he's stuck.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, so --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: Can't beat that.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, it's hard to beat that.
22 Real hard. So we, um -- so he asked me the next
23 day when I was over there fucking with him, I was
24 telling him you cost me a lot of money and a lot of
25 time, man. And he said what did you do with her?

40
1 At first I told him I took her down the street,
2 because he knows I got a couple more in the ground
3 down the street, right.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: He asked me one time before
6 that one little blond that he beat up and he's,
7 man, what the hell did you do with her? And I said
8 well, I couldn't keep her. I had to get rid of
9 her, man. So I fucking killed her and cut her up
10 and took her down the street. He's like where down
11 the street? So I kind of -- he's pretty familiar
12 with the area, so I --
13 SAMMIE EVANS: He grew up around there, too?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I kind of give him a
15 general description of where they're at. I mean I
16 didn't --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, just out there.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I didn't say just
19 right beside this tree or whatever.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: And he didn't ask you or he
21 didn't go into detail.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He didn't go into detail.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: He just wanted to make sure --
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. He just wanted to know
25 he was just curious, I guess. So I told him that.

41
1 So he -- then he was kind of letting it pass and
2 the girl recognized him and I went back over there
3 the next day and then he was real nervous. Now,
4 he's scared, since the girl, you know. But now he
5 knows she's dead, because he seen me kill her, you
6 know.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's fucking married and he
9 helped me. He didn't kill her, but he kind of
10 helped me.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: But, anyway, what did you do
13 with her, what did you do with her? But he don't
14 want me to get caught with her either.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: No.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, fuck, if I get caught
17 with her it's just a bad --
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- you know what I mean? At
20 least you couldn't point the finger at him.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: You could be -- he would
23 be -- that witness wouldn't be there to point the
24 finger at him, but it would just be just as bad if
25 I got caught with her.

42
1 SAMMIE EVANS: So, so it was kind of like a
2 sex ring?
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, but it really didn't
4 start out to be that, but it kind of turn out that
5 way. I mean, after about the first year, you know,
6 it just started off for profit personally.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: Personally, you?
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, personal, by me
9 personally doing it. But, hey, Jimmie got a little
10 money and after Jimmie started paying me, I thought
11 well, goddamn, this -- I can get a couple hundred
12 here, $200 here, $300 here.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: A whole a lot cheaper than
14 tricking than going out prostituting.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Well, I keep her
16 locked up in a sound-proof room. She ain't have no
17 problems, she don't cause no trouble, you know, and
18 you fuck her when you want to and when the guy
19 comes over, you rent her out. You put the money in
20 your pocket and don't say nothing. You get tired
21 of her you get rid of her and get another one.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: Did you feed 'em? Did you
23 clean it all up on them?
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, you had to feed them,
25 oh, yeah.
43
1 SAMMIE EVANS: They'll be skin and bones.
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, no, no, you got to take
3 care of them.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: You treat her like a person.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. You gotta take care of
6 them, but you just keep their ass locked up.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: You just can't run.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But the end result is
9 the same thing, you know what I mean? You make
10 money off of her. You making money off of her and
11 after about a year or year-and-a-half, it got to be
12 -- it wasn't really personal then, it was more
13 business.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I mean, doing it.
16 SAMMIE EVANS: So you never got attached to
17 'em.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, hell, no. One of
19 them -- I tell you what now, one of them I fucking
20 turned loose and I picked her up and I kept her for
21 about a week, fucked her and fucked her and, shit,
22 she's fell in love with me, so I turned her loose,
23 right, just to get rid of her, because I was tired
24 of fucking her, right?

44
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: And I just turned her loose
2 and let her go.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: And she won't leave. She
5 didn't want to leave. She stayed with me for about
6 four or five months, six months, right?
7 SAMMIE EVANS: So was she hooked on dope or
8 was she in love for real?
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: She didn't want to do a lot
10 of dope. Don't get me wrong, she got high.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: She wasn't really fucked up
13 on the dope.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: She wasn't a junkie.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, yeah. She wasn't on the
16 street tricking. When I picked her up, she wasn't
17 tricking. She wasn't a prostitute in the street,
18 but I mean she got high, but she wasn't fucked up
19 on dope to the point where she didn't know what she
20 was doing and --
21 SAMMIE EVANS: She probably --
22 (unintelligible) -- and fell for you for real.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know. I tell you
24 people are strange, man, sometimes.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: You never can tell how someone

45
1 mind work.
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: I turned her loose and she
3 wouldn't leave.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: That's crazy.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. She stayed around the
6 house and, I guess, for about six or seven months.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: Did she clean and cook and wash
8 dishes?
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Oh, yeah, hell, yeah.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: She was a good cook.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Like a real relationship?
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, that's --
14 (unintelligible) -- shit yeah, she fucking let me
15 cook dope and watch porn and she was a pretty good
16 girl. I just got tired of fucking her, you know.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: But I -- so, anyway, I get
19 the news today about my fucking property, man.
20 They're thinking about -- from what I can tell from
21 by paperwork, they're scheduling the demolition the
22 building and I don't know what -- I don't know what
23 brother is -- whether he knows it or not. But he
24 knows that body is in the backyard and he knows who
25 it is and he knows --
46
1 SAMMIE EVANS: He know that they're gonna
2 demolition that property, he probably tried to step
3 up and do something. But, listen, if they bulldoze
4 a house, does that necessarily mean they have to
5 dig or do they have to lift the foundation or
6 something?
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: I wouldn't think they would
8 find it.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know. You see it is
11 kind of close to the septic tank over there digging
12 up. The sewage plant inspecting the septic tank,
13 then they may stumble on accidently. But -- and
14 the code is if you put a mobile home or anything by
15 it, you have to put an above-ground septic tank.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Which would mean abandoning
18 the old septic tank, so if you dug that up to
19 abandoned it or take it out of the ground to get
20 rid of it --
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- you're subject to fines.
23 So my point is, even though my brother doesn't know
24 where it's at -- doesn't know exactly where it's
25 at, the motherfuckers could stumble on it.

47
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, I don't know what
3 the fuck he's doing or even if he has anything to
4 do with the property right now or not.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: The day -- that area itself,
6 though, it's not a bad area. It's a pretty good
7 area. It's not really hot right in there.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, it's not really that hot
9 right there.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: So what -- what do you think
11 they want to demolition the house, because you
12 haven't been able to pay for it?
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. The house is paid for.
14 It's just --
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Was it the taxes?
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, somebody broke a window
17 out of it. Once I got in here --
18 SAMMIE EVANS: It looks bad. It's an eyesore?
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, exactly. The grass is
20 all growed up and the fence, somebody went over
21 there and knocked the fucking fence down and done
22 this and done that, so the place is looking bad.
23 They got a couple municipal code violations
24 against it. The neighbors want it fucking tore
25 down, you know, so I don't know. I don't think I'm

48
1 going to be able to do anything as far as finding
2 my brother. I don't even think it would do any
3 good, because --
4 SAMMIE EVANS: You think he just --
5 (unintelligible) -- or does he just paranoid.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's scared.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: He's scared.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Of course, he's scared. He
9 know he ain't gonna go over there and dig that
10 goddamn body up --
11 SAMMIE EVANS: What --
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and try to get rid of it.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: What about --
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Even, though, because now
15 she -- even if they found her in the ground, she
16 couldn't come up and point the finger at him.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, because he probably think
20 he's in the clear.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly. He would be in the
22 clear, because if they found the body, I know what
23 he'd do, he'd step back and go, I don't know what
24 the fuck is going on. And trust me, he's got such
25 a convincing talk game, you would -- you know what

49
1 I mean, you would never know he's lying to you.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: He would act. My brother can
4 act now.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: What about -- what about the
6 guy who broke the girl cheek bone?
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: He knows I'm in jail.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: But he don't know about it.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. He don't know about it.
10 He don't know about it. He only knows that I get
11 rid of them. He don't know how I do with them. He
12 don't -- he asked me one night about what do you do
13 when you get rid of them, Russell? I said, look,
14 man, don't be asking fucking questions like that.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: That ain't -- that ain't
17 something to be talking about right now. But he's
18 the kind of guy, he don't ask much anyway.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: He might ask a question or
21 two, but he don't really talk to me too much.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So...
24 SAMMIE EVANS: You think he ever told anybody
25 about what he was coming around there doing?

50
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Um --
2 SAMMIE EVANS: You never had no problems?
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: I ain't never had no
4 problems, but he might have shared it with somebody
5 along the line, but I ain't never had no problems.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: It never came back to you?
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, it never came back to
8 me. None of them come back and bother me.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: You ever had -- you ever had
10 more than one girl at a time?
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, nah.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Too much?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Can't control all of them.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, it's too much to take
16 care of and too much control I would --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: You ain't risk it?
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I would pick one up
19 and keep her there and put Jimmie and David -- he'd
20 fuck her. David wouldn't fuck her that much, but
21 Jimmie, he was pretty regular.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: How did you get them, um, in
25 the car with you? What did you do, just pick them
51
1 up, tell them you want to get high with them?
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: I pull up and, you know, and
3 get high with them or do whatever. Just, you know,
4 casual pick up.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: And tell them you got a place
6 that way y'all can go to my place and get high.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: I let her hang out for a
8 while and kind of get an idea what kind of girl she
9 is.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: And depending on who she is
12 and what she was like, you know what I mean.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: You ever give them anything?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, no, I didn't have to.
15 One you get them to the house -- (unintelligible)
16 --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean? She's
19 there.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: You lock her up they gotta
21 say -- say -- say you let her in and y'all sitting
22 down and --
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: She couldn't just jump up and
24 leave.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you could lock everything

52
1 up?
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. She come in and we
3 lock the door and we talked to her and whatever and
4 if we decide to keep her --
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- we just fucking overpower
7 her and put her in the sound-proof room. When she
8 screams, it don't make a whole a lot. Then she's
9 shackled to the floor in a sound-proof room. The
10 doors are locked. We just leave her in there for
11 about 24 hours. Eventually, they all come around
12 to understand that things wasn't too bad.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: What about people coming over
14 unannounced? Say you got somebody over there and
15 somebody else shows up?
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: We don't really have that.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: People call first, you know
19 what I mean? We really didn't have a lot of --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: Traffic.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- traffic. We didn't have a
22 lot. I -- (unintelligible) --
23 SAMMIE EVANS: You got to be careful about
24 letting them go, though. Because I seen in the USA
25 Today with Bill Cosby, he got like 50 girls coming

53
1 forward talking about he drugged them and date
2 raped them.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, my number ain't up
4 that -- well, my number is up to, I guess, about
5 six.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, but three of them.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: That ain't exactly smalltime
9 either, though.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: No, no, you're right. It
11 only takes one --
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, that's major news.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- but six of them ain't
14 gonna talk anyway.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: I mean three of them. Three
17 out of the six ain't gonna talk anyway.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: How many you think old Jeffrey
21 Dahmer had? Wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer at Florida?
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. He --
23 SAMMIE EVANS: I think he had a lot.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, he had over 80.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: He was cutting them up, too,

54
1 though.
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. He was cutting them up
3 for a different purpose.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: I heard his victims was all
5 males.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. No. He would cut 'em
7 up, so he could eat 'em.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. They say he had body
9 parts in the fridge.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Exactly. Nah, I
11 didn't keep them -- I didn't cut them up, so I
12 could keep 'em. I cut them up, so I could get rid
13 of 'em.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: And you say three out the six
15 won't be taking no more.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Well, three out of six
17 is in the ground. It's the other three I let go.
18 One of them is -- one of them stayed around the
19 house for six months.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: And you never saw her, again?
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: I finally just kind of pushed
24 her off and kind of ran her off.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: You think she needed directions

55
1 back to the house?
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: Hell, yeah. Fuck, yeah. She
3 done -- remember, she lived with me for about
4 four -- four or five months.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, was you taking her out
6 with you when you left or you was leaving her to
7 the house?
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. She'd stay at the house.
9 She was -- (unintelligible) --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, you was treating her like a
11 real girlfriend.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: She -- (unintelligible) --
13 SAMMIE EVANS: She was in love for real, had
14 to be.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: She was a dependable girl.
17 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: My boy took 20 years
18 today.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Who's that?
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Ebron.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I heard about Ebron
22 taking 20.
23 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: It's all over the news.
24 That's what my sister just told me.

56
1 SAMMIE EVANS: I know. I know the little dude
2 who died, um, Hubba Bubba, the white guy who died,
3 remember he was with him when he got locked up in
4 the hotel.
5 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Talking about Andy?
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Andy, I know Andy.
7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Andy was at the room.
8 She's -- they was at a hotel smoking, fucking
9 shooting Molly.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah.
11 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They was all out there
12 together. I'm trying to think of his name.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: His name is Shawn, but they --
14 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Shawn, Shawn.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: His nickname --
16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Shawn, Shawn.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: His nickname Hubba Bubba. His
18 people was Yarboroughs. His mama and them was a
19 Yarborough.
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Exactly. I got
21 sentenced -- I got sentence for a year back then
22 for some bullshit. He's the one that brought Amber
23 to the courthouse that day.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: That's crazy, man, he was a
25 pretty good dude. He came up in Margaretta with

57
1 me, man.
2 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah -- (unintelligible)
3 --
5 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: So you know Tyrone --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I know TY. TY just came
7 home from the fed. Yeah, I know TY. TY used his
8 to hustle in the alley in McClenny.
9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: MLK.
11 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I see him right there
12 down the line, yeah.
14 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: He lived out there.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, passed the tracks.
16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Freddie Jackson.
18 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Eddie Field. I think
19 Eddie Field gone big time, man.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: I don't know. I know Tulu just
21 came home from feds.
22 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Gordon man died, I didn't
23 know.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Who?
25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Carlos Gordon.

58
1 SAMMIE EVANS: Carlos Gordon died? He was in
2 the fed.
3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah. Now, his son's in
4 the fed, too.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, his son got messed up,
6 too.
7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I know Carlos and Bruce
8 and Gerard and --
9 SAMMIE EVANS: All of them just came home from
10 the fed.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Carlos did 10. Gerard did like
13 12.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Robert did like 10.
16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Me and Gerard played
17 football together.
18 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, those some pretty big
19 boys.
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Them boys can hit, boy.
22 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah, I played with
23 Lamont -- (unintelligible) --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. I know Lamont.
25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I played with Gerard and

59
1 old fat ass Rod and that's the reason --
2 SAMMIE EVANS: I know Rod.
3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I been knowing them my
4 whole life. My brother-in-law is Ricky Haynes.
5 You don't remember Lisa Law?
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Lisa who?
7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Lisa Law. She was --
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Law, nah.
10 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: She was married to Ricky
11 Haynes. And Melissa Haynes, man, that's the only
12 child she's gotten by a white dude was Ricky. That
13 was the first, Wes -- Wes' daddy.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, Wes.
15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The -- (unintelligible)
16 --
18 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I called her the other
19 night and she was bad -- (unintelligible) --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: Who?
21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They talk on Facebook
22 that's it, man.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Who? Oh, you talking about
24 Calvin, yeah. He played at Alabama, man.
25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They talk on Facebook and

60
1 shit like that, but he don't --
2 SAMMIE EVANS: But he don't really take
3 care -- he probably ain't got no money like he used
4 to.
5 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: -- so beautiful.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I know. I saw her when
7 she was a little.
8 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: She just did Stomp in
9 some competition with -- (unintelligible) -- and
10 her little Gucci guy they came in fourth and they
11 got backstage passes for Chris Brown.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: And they're hanging out
14 with him.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. Chris Brown a bad boy.
16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: And, man, she was up
17 there single with him and -- (unintelligible) --
18 SAMMIE EVANS: I ain't seen Destiny since she
19 was a little.
20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They -- (unintelligible)
21 --
23 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: (Laughing.) I said come
24 on around and -- (unintelligible) -- I said when I
25 go to court and I get on the stand and --

61
2 SAMMIE EVANS: (Laughing.) Like a union.
3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I'll holler at you later.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: All right. Yeah, I told you
5 about the Ebron junk.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: See.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: He say he talked to his girl.
8 It's all on the news, man.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: They done gave him a little
11 deal for 20 years, but they probably gonna hit him
12 with some new junk later on down the line or some
13 junk from what I heard.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Well, I figured he
15 would have got off lighter than that, but since he
16 -- since he took them to the body and --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, but, you know -- but, you
18 know, with a baby, though, man --
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, not only that, he
20 participated in it.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's giving them something.
23 If he had no knowledge --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Not at all. He actually had
25 his hands it in.

62
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: If he had no knowledge of
2 it --
3 SAMMIE EVANS: He might have would have got
4 off.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- he probably could have
6 used that you know or something like that.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, his liberty or something.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: But the fact you're with it.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: But you got to think about it,
10 he may have never given up, but I heard the girl
11 was talking, too.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: He went to talking. And before
14 you sink me, I need to make me a deal.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's exactly what happened.
16 When you get one against the other, you pick up her
17 and hold her and you pick up the other one and you
18 hold him and they go against each other, eventually
19 the story comes out.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Then all you gotta do is sit
22 on the motherfucker long enough --
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- one of them will tell on
25 the other one or the both tell on each other.

63
1 SAMMIE EVANS: I learned that at an early age
2 I was real young. It was me and my partner and
3 they grabbed us in Baldwin. And it was just a
4 theft of like a pager and I was like 12 or 13.
5 They was like, well, your partner already told on
6 you, so you might as well tell me what happened.
7 So I'm, like, I, man, I don't know, I don't
8 know. So when they let us both go he comes up, his
9 fists balled up like he want to fight me and he's
10 like, man, you told the police what happened? I
11 said, man, they told me you said what happened.
12 And he was like, man, they must be lying man, duh,
13 duh, duh, and I learned at an early age, man, no
14 matter what they talking about --
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: People don't -- some people
16 don't understand that.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah, nah.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: My brother -- my brother got
19 caught with that fucking stolen truck in his
20 garage.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: They in there cutting up in
23 the body shop and the body shop is fenced with an
24 8-foot privacy fence and you can't see it from the
25 street.
64
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: They put this stuff up and
3 they tell him, wow, you know, since you do body
4 work for the public, we don't need a warrant to
5 search your property.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Wow.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: So he opens up the fucking
8 door and lets them go right back to the stolen
9 vehicle.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: They playing a game on him?
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. He didn't know just
12 like what you're saying.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you don't know the law,
14 yeah.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Now, he got a good talk game
16 and he can act good, but he don't --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Ignorant to the law.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- know about the law. He
19 open the door and lets them in and they go right
20 back to the stolen car and somebody had told them
21 about who he was --
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and I looked right back to
24 the stolen truck I know right back where it's at.
25 And sure enough, it's hot. And he's the one that
65
1 stole it and he told me in the phone and he called
2 me on the phone. He said, man, I need a bill of
3 sale quick. He starts telling me police crawling
4 all over me, man. I don't want to go to jail.
5 Then he starts getting real scared.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I gave him a bill of sale
8 and he gets -- he -- he gets rid of the detectives,
9 right, and they take the stolen truck and they take
10 the truck he was putting the parts on.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: And eventually they give the
13 stolen truck back to him and the truck he was
14 working on.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I asked him, well, how the
17 fuck did the cops get all that property, man? How
18 did they get back into this truck? He said, well,
19 they told me they didn't need a warrant, because I
20 paint these cars for the public. And --
21 SAMMIE EVANS: So it's public access.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But it was on private
23 property -- (unintelligible) --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: 8-foot fence, there ain't no
25 such thing as public access.

66
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I said you let them go
2 right there knowing the truck was stolen? He said
3 what the fuck was I supposed to do? I said you
4 were supposed to tell them you didn't know what
5 they were talking about and to leave.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: And that will give you time
8 to get rid of the truck.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, now you
11 know they watching you and you get rid of the truck
12 and you're okay.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you got to buy yourself
14 some time.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: I didn't know, I didn't know.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: I told him --
18 SAMMIE EVANS: Your brother an idiot, man.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- my brother is smart in
20 some ways --
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- yeah, he's real smart in
23 some ways, but in others, just like anybody, you
24 know you're real smart in math, but you're stupid
25 in history.
67
1 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you can be book smart and
2 you can street dumb.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. So he's like that it's
4 just -- that's the reason he was concerned about
5 them bulldozing that property, because there ain't
6 no telling what the motherfucker might do or say if
7 they unearth that fucking body over there.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know what he might --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: I would be sweating bullets,
11 boy.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: But you know you really can't
14 sweat, because there ain't nothing you can really
15 do.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Right. There ain't nothing I
17 can do about it, because they gonna do what they're
18 gonna do and there is nothing I can do about it.
19 The only question is what would be his
20 participation or would he even have any or would
21 they even know that he was -- you know. I don't
22 know if he's over there, you know what I mean, or
23 if would even involve him.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: You really want to keep him out
25 the picture.
68
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, he ain't in the picture
2 really, per se. Like I say, she ain't gonna
3 identify him.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: She's not gonna come up and
6 say he held me and he took me and the fucking
7 brother killed me and he then he cut my fucking
8 head off and his brother went to kill me.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Because she had been the kind
11 you could let her go.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean? And
14 then the brother come over and freaks out and, oh,
15 no, look, man, she ain't gonna say nothing. You
16 see, I'm that kind of a judge of character with
17 that respect.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: And I told him, don't worry
20 about her. He's freaking out, you know.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: But, listen, if he was to
22 get -- the heat come up under his butt he -- ain't
23 no telling what all he'll say it might -- whatever.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: It might be some more junk.

69
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, it wouldn't take much
2 to scare him, it wouldn't take much to scare him.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: Like you say, he don't know
4 where the -- where the -- where the others are --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: But I mean that general
7 location they may think they can find 'em.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, yeah, it's not that
9 hard of an area. Once you get there from that
10 general location, it wouldn't take much, because
11 they're not that deep in the ground.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: So they not as deep as the
13 first one?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Shit -- (unintelligible) --
15 SAMMIE EVANS: That's not that -- yeah.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: You're only talking about
17 three-and-a-half, four foot.
18 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, that's not really that
19 deep.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: That ain't deep. You could
21 almost take a damn rod and stick it in the ground.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: I was thinking about it ain't
23 deep, because when they bury you at a funeral
24 service, how many is that, six?
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, six feet or eight or

70
1 something like that.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: I think it's six, so if it's
3 two foot short of that, that's kind of deep.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: If they can take a pine box and
6 stick it in the ground.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you're six-foot tall.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah. You're right. I
9 didn't think about it like that.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: You're six-foot tall, and
11 you're at four-foot tall.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: That's like waist high, torso.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Right.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah, that ain't much.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. That ain't much taller.
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, man, that's just deep
17 enough to bury -- (unintelligible) --
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: The hole is four foot deep.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: But it ain't saying it have to
20 be that wide.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, if you -- if you dig a
22 hole, if you dig a hole that's six inches deep and
23 you put this book in the hole --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: And then put dirt on it.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and you cover it up --

71
1 SAMMIE EVANS: It's not gonna be four foot.
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- after you cover the book,
3 it's three inches.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Yea. Three inches.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: So if it's six inches deep --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: It's almost three inches.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- it's three inches from the
8 surface.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: It's only three inches before
10 you can get to her.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: So if you have a book at four
12 foot hole and you lay the torso down in there
13 that's a foot wide --
14 SAMMIE EVANS: It's only three foot.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- that is only three foot --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Deep, yeah, from the surface.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly.
18 SAMMIE EVANS: See, I never thought about it
19 like that.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, so you have to
21 understand, too, that from surface-wise, you're not
22 really that deep.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: That deep.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: And if he got in the general
25 location, shit, they might find her, but not only

72
1 that, I don't know -- it's only been -- it's only
2 been a year since I been there.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: So it was kind of spontaneous
4 how the whole thing started.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: That -- that was the intention.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Pretty much spontaneous,
8 yeah. Pretty much spontaneous how the whole
9 thing -- until -- until I found out that Jimmie was
10 fucking paid --
11 SAMMIE EVANS: That was steady income.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and made money. And then
13 you fucking you just keep her fucking locked up in
14 the goddamn room then it turned into something
15 else, I guess, you know what I mean?
16 SAMMIE EVANS: I mean, that's steady money. I
17 mean that's money you can begin to depend on. You
18 can count on it.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: And Jimmie paying that off, he
21 liked to come 'round to hit 'em.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Well, if he's -- at
23 least he ain't in the fucking picture, so --
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- if they find him --

73
1 SAMMIE EVANS: That's who you got to worry
2 about.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- if they find him I got to
4 worry about. I worry about my brother.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: I mean the more people that
6 know, though, man, the more dangerous that whole
7 situation is.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, fuck yeah, it is.
9 Yeah. Well, as it was, my brother, he was the only
10 one that knew about the -- about the, um, about the
11 one in the yard and the other two down the street.
12 The way this case looks it doesn't look like
13 I'm gonna get out of it anyway, because it's hard
14 to beat a cop case.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah -- I had a -- I had a
16 friend, man, he had plenty of case law back in his
17 aggravated assault on an officer with his vehicle.
18 He was trying to escape and they didn't identify
19 themselves. And it was supposed to be a sale and
20 so he -- when they came running up at him in all
21 black with ski masks on, he just accelerated the
22 car.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: He drove off.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. And one officer got his
25 foot ran over and they gave him I think attempted

74
1 murder on officer or some junk.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: And he went to trial and he
4 lost in Cooper courtroom, man, and he showed me all
5 type of case law that said otherwise like he may be
6 should have won or at least got a mistrial or a
7 hung jury or something. Man, those people
8 deliberated for like 20 minutes.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Them cops, they --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: They're part of the Court, I
11 mean the system.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: The whole case is -- it's
13 pretty bad. It's got a lot of holes in it, but me,
14 with no lawyer, it's hard for me to present that
15 case to a jury and actually get a jury to
16 understand what happened.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: The Public Defender, he just
19 sat right there at the table and told me, look,
20 they're not going to let me help you. He basically
21 told me, look, the State's not going to let me help
22 you.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: As --
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: They're going to convict you
25 and they're going to send you prison and, if you

75
1 beat it on appeal that's how you're going to get
2 out of prison.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: So, listen --
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: And that's it.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: -- he's not -- they're not
6 going to let him help as far as being --
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Represent me.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, not even represent? I
9 thought it was just as a side counsel, but even if
10 he was your representative --
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: They -- they the Public
12 Defender gets up and he does the minimum amount to
13 make it look like I have representation.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: But he won't go find a
16 witness.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: He won't take a deposition of
19 the witness. He won't take the evidence and send
20 it over to the forensics lab and prove that my
21 brother didn't make that boot print on the
22 motherfucker's shit.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: I mean I know my print didn't
25 make the boot print on the officer's shirt. He

76
1 wasn't wearing that shirt when he arrested me.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yes, those were task force
4 shirts on.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: What about -- what about the
6 private investigator, she can't do nothing?
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: That -- shit, she ain't --
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm telling you, man, you did
10 the right thing by hiring that one.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad. I seen
12 how she was slack on your case, I'm like, man, I'm
13 not going with that lady, man.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: No. She won't -- hell, no.
15 You know, I tried to get her to go out there and do
16 -- I said do a shirt lineup. I said the cop wasn't
17 even wearing that shirt when he arrested me. There
18 were witnesses to the arrest if you'll just
19 question them. Give them a shirt lineup and
20 they'll tell you, oh, no, I don't wear that shirt.
21 I wear that shirt over here.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: 'Cause --
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: And I can prove that he
24 doesn't even have that shirt on when he says I
25 kicked him.
77
1 SAMMIE EVANS: Because when all of them came,
2 they all should have been wearing the same uniform,
3 right?
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: They were.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. So he had on -- he has
6 on some different than the other ones.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: And the picture, he took a
8 picture of this alleged roof, right, and he's got
9 on a fucking different shirt altogether.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: But --
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: He has a different shirt than
12 the rest of everybody.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: But all the other officers in
14 the picture?
16 SAMMIE EVANS: So you don't -- you can't prove
17 what the others was wearing.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: The witnesses that watched
19 him arrest me --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: They know.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- and seen the shirt he had
22 on.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: It had a big old POLICE
25 across the front.

78
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: And they were saying, no,
3 that's the shirt that he was wearing right there.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's not the shirt that has
6 the boot print on it. She couldn't even do that.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: So do you think -- do you think
8 it's on film by your neighbors having those cameras
9 point at your house?
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's probably got a DVD of
11 it.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: But he --
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: A souvenir.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: But he won't give up. He's
16 the same one that got the house condemned and wants
17 it bulldozed. He's -- the neighbors are not going
18 to give up.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: They're not gonna give it up.
21 I tried to get -- when they first arrested me, I
22 told them Public Defender I said, look, man, it was
23 all happened right the street. If you go to this
24 address -- I gave him the neighbor's address -- and
25 if you tell him you want that security disc --

79
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- it will show you that I
3 didn't commit the crime.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: The first thing out of his
6 mouth was we don't need that.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: So, listen --
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: It was right that day he told
9 me this. But I asked him, I said, well, why -- why
10 don't we need the security? Why don't you want to
11 talk to me witness? And he -- I kind of cornered
12 him in the corner why aren't you helping me?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: What the fuck are you doing,
15 man? I didn't commit that crime. Now, I might
16 have done a bunch of other things in my life, but I
17 didn't commit that crime.
18 SAMMIE EVANS: And maybe the other stuff was
19 what makes it looks like you done that, too?
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: I got a bad record.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: But listen --
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: But that's the reason it
23 won't help, because I got a bad record.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: But, listen, remember you
25 showed me a map of like a layout of the house and

80
1 stuff just to give me an idea of --
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, where they would watch
3 from --
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. And where the cameras
5 was positioned. Okay. Now, I remember you telling
6 me this and showing me this and you said you showed
7 the private investigator, but when you first came
8 to the Public Defender with this information, did
9 you show him the same thing like --
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I drew the map.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: I mean that map was intricate.
12 That was detailed to the science. Even I could
13 have went out there --
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Even when I cornered him in
15 the corner and said why aren't you helping me and
16 that's when he finally confesses. He said, look,
17 man, the State's not gonna let me help you, man.
18 They want you to go to prison. I said so you gonna
19 stay beside me while they send me to prison knowing
20 that I didn't fucking commit that crime?
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He said, well, you got a bad
23 record. What's my record got to do with it? So I
24 committed crime in the past --
25 SAMMIE EVANS: But some of that stuff that's

81
1 on your record, does it necessarily mean you done
2 it, if you copped out or if you was just charged
3 with it? I mean --
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: -- you have to realize you
6 could have had your back against the wall and knew
7 it was in your best interest to talk two or three
8 years.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly. If you're guilty,
10 you're guilty.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you're guilty regardless
12 if you done it or not.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- (unintelligible) -- I been
14 arrested for, you know what I mean?
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: I got bad stuff on my record
17 that I -- that I didn't even do.
18 SAMMIE EVANS: So --
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: And then to this day, I can't
20 find out why they'd didn't arrest me.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: So, listen, by you owning the
22 property you can't just sell it and get the money
23 and use it for an attorney or something?
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's hard to sell it in here.

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1 RUSSELL TILLIS: The dirt's worth $20,000.
2 That's about all the dirt's worth.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's not like it's -- it's
5 not like it's a --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: High value.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- $200,000 home in a real
8 nice neighborhood that you could get off for
9 $100,000 cheap quick.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: Easy.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. It's not like that.
12 You would be selling the dirt. The dirt has a
13 structure on it and if they bulldoze that
14 structure --
15 SAMMIE EVANS: It will cost them money.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, now you got a lien
17 against the property. Dirt tells for $25,000 and
18 you got a 5 or $6,000 lien against it, you got to
19 satisfy the lien, so in the end, yeah, -- I tried
20 to, when I first come to jail, I solicited private
21 attorneys and tried to trade --
22 SAMMIE EVANS: For the property for their
23 representation?
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: I was scared to do that,
25 because I got a body on that goddamn property. But

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1 I didn't have no choice. I'm thinking, well, fuck
2 it, trade the goddamn property, hire a lawyer, get
3 out, and sneak over there one rainy night and dig
4 the motherfucker up and get rid of it.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: I mean that's my intent.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: But --
9 SAMMIE EVANS: That would have been a good
10 idea.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: I couldn't even -- I couldn't
12 even do that, because --
13 SAMMIE EVANS: You probably could still do it,
14 though, right?
16 SAMMIE EVANS: You probably could still do it.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Shit, I ain't never getting
18 out of this place.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: So why you say you couldn't do
20 it, if --
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Because I'm never going to
22 get out from under this cop charge. My ass is
23 going to prison. By the time -- if I beat it on
24 appeal, it will be what, two, three years? That
25 property, somebody else will be owning it.

84
1 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, boy.
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't -- I don't know what
3 the fuck will happen, but it will -- it will be --
4 my guess is it will always sit there for another
5 two years and it will be accidentally unearthed
6 anyway. I don't know how they would do a forensics
7 to -- to determine for date of --
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Of the death?
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know how accurate
10 that would be and four years or so five years of
11 being in the ground --
12 SAMMIE EVANS: They probably got ways, though.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm sure they do. Forensics
14 is --
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Man, they got all type of
16 technology we don't even know about.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I don't know, but as it
18 stands right now, it's only been in the ground
19 about two years.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: When you're dealing with a
21 skeleton, the only way to identify the body is
22 through the dental.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: DNA is in bone, too, I guess.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh. You can get DNA out of the
25 bone?
85
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: I would think so.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, you probably can, because
3 they do bone marrow transplants. That's probably
4 dealing with --
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's probably deteriorated,
6 but I'm sure there is some DNA --
7 SAMMIE EVANS: In the bone itself.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- in the bone itself.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, boy. So the only way to
10 ready get rid of the body is to burn it up or feed
11 it to the gators or something.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: It won't burn.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: It won't burn?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: The body won't burn.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: It won't completely burn?
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Wow. But will it destroy it
18 what needs to be destroyed?
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know that.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: I went to a cremation one
22 time where the funeral, you know, the crematory?
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: And they put the body in the
25 furnace and it didn't burn it all the way.

86
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: The pelvic part and part of
3 the skull was still intact.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, that's crazy, boy.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: And they have a furnace.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, they got fire pumping
7 good.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's not like just throwing
9 it in the bonfire in the back.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah, that's a furnace.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: An enclosed pit.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. To my understanding,
14 if you just put the body a fire, you'll burn the
15 flesh and the bone will still be there.
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, boy. That's a hard --
17 that's hard. That's what I'm thinking, dang, for
18 you to get away with it, you've got to know what
19 you doing, boy. See, a lot of people they --
20 they -- they -- they -- they think they know what
21 they doing or they think they you know this --
22 this, you know, like professional.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know about a
24 professional, but, I guess, you acquire experience
25 as you go --
87
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- if you don't get caught on
3 the first one.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, more experience the more
5 you do it.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I mean, I don't --
7 SAMMIE EVANS: You got the --
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, through the years.
9 When I was in California, I shot a guy out there.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Four or five of them
12 tried beat my ass and I shot a guy in a San Juan
13 parking lot one time.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know if I killed him
16 or not. I left. The one in California I didn't
17 kill him. He lived.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: The one in the San Juan
20 parking lot, I don't know if he died or not, but
21 that's been 23 years ago.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: What kind of gun was it?
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: An old fucking .22.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: Was it close up?

88
1 SAMMIE EVANS: Well, you know it takes a while
2 thought bullet could have kept traveling and he
3 could have died later.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: But anyway, my point is that
5 I, um, through the years, you know --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Just experienced --
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, being, you know what I
8 mean that kind of -- that kind of pissed off
9 individual like I say.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: That's a hard way to live, boy.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: Because like you say, well,
13 back to what you said as far as with the contents,
14 man, eventually, man, something has to --
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Something has to give.
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Has the trigger, yeah, man.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, it ain't -- it ain't as
18 easy as it sounds that's for sure.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: Then I think of stuff like
20 karma and all type of stuff coming back, man.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know. Well, we
22 all -- we all -- we all -- so that's one of the
23 reasons that they're prosecuting me now for the cop
24 charge.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: It ain't really about, yeah.

89
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: It ain't even about it.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: It's not even until it.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's probably about karma and
4 shit. I done a lot of shit.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Them three in the
7 ground ain't the only three, trust me. Them's the
8 only three in the last four, five years.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Four years or
11 something like that, but it ain't the only ones,
12 yeah. And then they only time I've ever been in
13 that situation --
14 SAMMIE EVANS: So when you -- when you was
15 traveling like what you said about California --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: -- so you was living kind of
18 wild out there, too?
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But I wasn't doing
20 like --
21 SAMMIE EVANS: Crazy stuff.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, well, not like this
23 here with her in the ground. That was, you know --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: That's different.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- yeah, that's different.

90
1 Over the years, but.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Are those the only kind of ways
3 you try to get rid of people by shooting them? You
4 never tried any other kind of way?
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, I didn't shoot any of
6 them girls.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: No.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's too noisy.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah, I'm talking about --
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: In the street?
11 SAMMIE EVANS: -- yeah, like the guy with
12 the .22?
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, he didn't want to fuck
14 with a gun.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: It's too noisy, though.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I know. I had that in
19 my criminal history, there's a -- there's a leaving
20 the scene of an accident with injury that happened
21 two years ago.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: I think it was.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: That wasn't even that long ago.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I can't remember the

91
1 exact date, but it's leaving the scene of the
2 accident with injuries, third-degree felony. I was
3 never even arrested for it.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: And, yeah, I never -- the
6 cops never come question me or nothing, but the
7 little -- the gal that was living with me at the
8 time, her boyfriend was following her.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: He followed her to the Gate
11 Station, slapped her around in the parking lot,
12 about 3 o'clock in the morning. She got in my car,
13 I was sleeping in the bed. She wakes me up and
14 says, hey, I need some cigarettes.
15 So I give her some money and I give her the
16 keys and I said, look, go around the Gate Station I
17 don't want to get up. She goes around the Gate
18 Station, her boyfriend was stalking her.
19 She gets some cigarettes, she comes out, the
20 guy races up in the parking lot, jumps out, and
21 starts slapping her around. She finally gets away
22 from him, gets in the car, and comes home.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: He must have knew your car.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Oh, yeah, yeah. He had been
25 stalking her for a while, right. She comes out to

92
1 the house, it's about 2:30 in the morning. She's
2 all crying and hysterical. First thing she goes
3 for is -- I keep a pistol beside the bed, right?
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: She fucking -- she's
6 hysterical and I'm like what the fuck are you
7 doing? She says I'm going to go around there and
8 shoot that motherfucker. I said, oh, no, you ain't
9 taking my fucking gun and my car and going to shoot
10 nobody.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Don't use the gun.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Whatever you do, don't
17 fucking --
18 SAMMIE EVANS: Too noisy.
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Don't use the gun. It
20 draws too much attention and the police will be all
21 over you. So she sat out there and I said I tell
22 you what, let's ride around there and let me have a
23 conversation with him.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: And this guy is a big dude,

93
1 now.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm kind of --
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's a pretty good size dude,
7 right, so I drive -- I get in the fucking passenger
8 seat, right, and she drives around there and we get
9 there and there is two or three of them standing
10 out in the street.
11 So I tell her, I said -- I said, um -- she
12 wanted me to just -- she wanted to drive by and me
13 just shoot him and keep going. I said fuck, no,
14 I'm not going to shoot that dude. I'm telling you
15 don't do it like that, right?
16 So we get closer and she runs over him, bam,
17 fucking 45-miles-an-hour and she runs right over
18 him. I fucking get pissed off. So I tell her go
19 back to the house. So I go back to the house and I
20 put the car in the garage. I give her some money
21 and I tell her, look, get fucking lost and never
22 come back.
23 Now, everybody knew the car, they knew me, but
24 the thing with her was, she was the same build,
25 about the same shape, her hair was like the same
94
1 length and color, the windows were tinted in the
2 car and it's fucking 2:30 in the morning on a dark
3 kind of night.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Here's the car comes by about
6 45-miles-an-hour --
7 SAMMIE EVANS: They gonna think it's you.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, it was hard to
9 identify.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Now, they just seen her at
12 the Gate Station driving the car.
13 SAMMIE EVANS: On camera probably.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, I'm sure, okay. So
15 they don't even know that she come out to the house
16 and got me. I was slumped down in the passenger
17 seat, so they first didn't see me and I'm thinking
18 just ease up on it and let me get a look at the
19 situation. Maybe I'll get out, maybe I won't.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, depends
22 on what it looks like. She just runs over the
23 motherfucker. Thought she killed him, right? I
24 get back to house and I put the car up. She
25 leaves. I expect the SWAT Team to come get me,

95
1 because it's my car.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: They never come. They never
4 come. They never come. Two days later, I'm still
5 at the house with the blinds pulled down. I'm
6 thinking where the fuck are they at?
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: They never even come question
9 me. Never nothing, right. About a week later, she
10 comes back to the house and knocks on the door and
11 I said what in the fuck is it?
12 SAMMIE EVANS: What are you doing here?
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: I know you -- but I seen the
14 motherfucker on the road. He lived. I said, he
15 what?
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: I said, no, shit? She said
18 yeah, broke both his legs, his pelvis, I don't
19 know, some shit like that, you know what I mean?
20 And they -- so anyway, she tells me that -- that --
21 that the cops questioned her and it's over.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Okay. I get picked up on
24 this charge here. I get my criminal history and
25 I'll be goddamn if it's not on my criminal history,

96
1 but I was never even arrested, never questioned,
2 never nothing.
3 Fucking Ashley, I don't know whatever happened
4 to her, but old Peter, he fucking lived. I thought
5 the motherfucker would have died. And then she was
6 telling me when she come back I thought you were
7 gonna tell on me. I wasn't gonna fucking tell on
8 you, but goddamn, you trying to get me send to
9 prison for the rest of my life.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: For real.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. And then she said you
12 didn't do, you didn't do. I said, well, I'm in the
13 fucking car, you used my car, I just as well done
14 it.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean? I just
17 as well have been driving the car with my criminal
18 history, ain't nobody gonna believe me. You know,
19 they're gonna -- they're gonna pick you up, pick me
20 up and they're gonna fucking let you go and throw
21 me to the wolves, you know.
22 So it's just -- yeah. So they use that
23 criminal history just like now on this case, I'm
24 going with the cop case, they using all that
25 criminal shit in my background, some of it I didn't

97
1 even do. Some of it I did do.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, but I mean maybe it is
4 karma biting me in the ass, because, trust me, I've
5 done my --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: That's a wild story. That's a
7 wild story, man. That's a crazy story, man. Buddy
8 got ran over doing 45. I would have that he would
9 have been out of there. But it ain't no telling,
10 though, maybe the front -- the front of the car hit
11 him versus rather than both sets of tires running
12 over him. And then it'd probably depend on what it
13 ran over. It could run over his legs.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it run over
15 him pretty good, so...
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Dang, I can't imagine feeling
17 no junk like that.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: 45-miles-an-hour fucking car
19 just runs you over.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, feeling the car --
21 feeling some junk like that, boom, boom.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: It happened so fast.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: It happened so fucking fast,
25 you know what I mean?

98
1 SAMMIE EVANS: Then you got --
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: Then she just driving on and
3 next minute the motherfucker's up in the air and I
4 was like God dang. But she was hysterical,
5 probably upset, and this, that, and the other.
6 Man, she'd panic and probably kill the
7 son-of-a-bitch anyway, the way he was fucking with
8 her.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. But, hell --
11 (Announcement being made.)
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- that's what I was telling
13 you about karma and shit, just like the cop charge.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Even if -- it ain't even that
16 I did this crime --
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- I'm in jail for.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: That's not even the issue.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, the issue is my
21 criminal history and the shit I got away with duh,
22 duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, you know what I mean?
23 Now, they're fucking trying to hang me for
24 something I didn't even do. Hell, they know. They
25 could read the police report and realize that I

99
1 didn't -- you know what I mean? That I didn't
2 fucking --
3 SAMMIE EVANS: I know --
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: There's so many holes in the
5 goddamn case.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: I know at least --
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- (unintelligible) --
8 SAMMIE EVANS: -- I know at least a little few
9 of the guys in here, they probably could read the
10 report and know these guys didn't do what they was
11 being charged with.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, they were doing
13 something, though. Just like me. I'm not -- I
14 might of not have -- I might have not helped the
15 fucking cops of my yard for kicking me, but I was
16 doing something.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: I mean I wasn't -- they come
19 out there with a regular warrant. They had a
20 reason to be there. It's not like I'm completely
21 innocent.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, but I
24 wasn't guilty of what they said I did and --
25 SAMMIE EVANS: Some things -- some things are

100
1 just unbelievable, though, because I mean the way
2 they shooting people out there right now, if you
3 would have just came -- if you would have rushed at
4 them with two knives, you'd have been shot or tased
5 or something.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah, fuck, yeah. They
7 have shot my ass and had good reason to shoot me.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Still have good reason to
10 shoot me. Should have shot me back in my day.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: So what I'm gonna do is, the
12 motion that you wrote up to introduce evidence.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: I'm gonna go off of that format
15 and that include my grounds and I'm gonna give it
16 to the attorney. Because she may come back tonight
17 or either the private investigator. If the private
18 investigator comes tonight, I can give it to her
19 and she can probably pass it along to the attorney.
20 And what I want to do is I want to get her to
21 scrutinize and look over it and just make sure, you
22 know, everything -- everything looks okay. And if
23 she can make the proper amendments, if it's any
24 type of mistakes in it.

101
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, I would suggest having
3 your attorney look over it. She has to adopt it,
4 you know what I mean.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: She got to adopt it before I
6 submit it as well, but see we have a little time,
7 because I don't go back to court until, um, until
8 March. I don't remember the exact date, but it was
9 sometime maybe like the first week of March.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Maybe like March the 8th or
12 something.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: But I want to get on it now. I
15 don't want to wait until the last minute and that's
16 why when I came from out in the hall from talking
17 to her, I said, well, shoot, I'll go in there and
18 if Tillis isn't busy --
20 SAMMIE EVANS: You know what I'm saying? Then
21 I'll -- I'll get him to, um, help me with the
22 motion, because I remember you saying you wrote up
23 your own.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: For the -- for the -- for the

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1 hearing or whatever.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: And I got the motion to
4 suppress. I'll probably let you look over that and
5 make sure I didn't make any mistakes on it.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: If that attorney doesn't
7 adopt it, the Court --
8 SAMMIE EVANS: It's not -- they're not gonna
9 accept it.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Even if you're pro se with
11 that motion that court hardly even -- it was
12 entertaining pro se, but as far as getting any
13 action, it's almost impossible.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: They're not going to respect
15 you being pro se probably.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Some of them judges resent
17 that shit.
20 SAMMIE EVANS: It's kind of like a slap in the
21 face.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: That judge I got, he made it
23 well-known --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: He got it out.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- he did not appreciate pro

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1 se clients in his courtroom.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: He got lots of guys who are
3 pro-se?
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah, he's just a hard
5 judge, you know. It is what it is.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: I heard he was strict, but I
7 heard he was strict on the State and the, um --
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, I don't know.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: -- and the, um, the defendant.
10 It didn't look like he was strict on the State at
11 all.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, well, he -- he -- he
13 alleges to be strict on the State, but he hasn't
14 imposed any sanctions on the State that restricts
15 them from the prosecution.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: He imposed sanctions on me
18 that hindered me from preparing a competent
19 defense.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: So effectively, he's denying
22 me the right to defend myself.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Now, if you won't give me a
25 continuance for two months and let me get a private

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1 investigator and hire a forensics expert and do
2 analysis on that boot that show you that my boot
3 didn't do that, then you're effectively denying me
4 the right to represent myself, you know?
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I agree.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Fuck, so that's what I'm
7 telling you, it's not even about the case anymore,
8 you know? And then I get this paper about them
9 bulldozing my house and I figure, shit, they fixing
10 to go over there and them bodies over there and
11 it's probably gonna lead to the other two and God
12 only knows what else that's gonna fucking lead to,
13 you know what I mean?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: That junk --
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: By the time they get through
16 unearthing and looking around, ain't no telling how
17 many goddamn skeletons gonna come out of the
18 closet, you know, so it ain't even gonna matter.
19 SAMMIE EVANS: That junk snowballing downhill,
20 man.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you gotta figure, you
22 live a life like that --
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Something gotta come back --
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- well, you know --
25 SAMMIE EVANS: -- catch up.

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1 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- yeah, it's like you build
2 a house and once the roof starts dropping, when it
3 gets good and rotten and falls in, you know what I
4 mean, it falls in.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: It falls in. You know,
7 that's kind of the perspective I see it. It is
8 what it is.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: But you never know, though,
10 man. I mean, they could just bulldoze it and clear
11 off the debris or whatever --
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: If it wasn't so close to the
13 setback, any time you build a home, the --
14 (unintelligible) -- department or somebody takes
15 the property and once they go in there and upgrade
16 the sewage systems, so that they can put another
17 trailer on it or put a house on it --
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- they want to unearth it.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: They're gonna find it. So
22 they probably won't find when they bulldoze the
23 house sure enough, but once they go in there and do
24 any renovations or upgrading to the property, it's
25 gonna be found. And that warrant's gonna be for

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1 this and be for that; do you follow me?
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, 'cause --
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's gonna be a domino
4 effect. Next thing I know, shit --
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Because my parents, they live
6 in the country and in the country, anytime you get
7 a piece of property, you put a house on a trailer
8 on it, you have to get a septic tank and a light
9 pole like a telephone pole.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: And those certain things get
12 dug and concrete is laid inside of that hole.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: But everything few years a
15 truck has to come out --
17 SAMMIE EVANS: -- and pump it out. So that's
18 what an above-ground septic tank looks like?
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, the septic tank is
20 below ground, but the drain field is above.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: So they had to change it.
23 See, right now the drain field's above. If the
24 drain field and the tank were above ground --

107
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- you upgrade it, you have
2 to put the drain field above ground, you know.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: So what does the drain field
4 look like?
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's just a pipe -- there's a
6 big tank, concrete tank in the ground where all the
7 piss and shit goes in.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: And it's a lid?
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: And the pipe where the liquid
10 will run out into a lock area.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: And it's called a drain
13 field.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, okay. I've seen that.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: The actual waste will stay in
16 the tank.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've
18 seen that. Because the liquid just rise, just
19 causes it to rise, so you want all the liquid out
20 that way the waste and stay at the bottom and it
21 gradually rise up.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: So when they start grading
23 that, they're gonna unearth that, one, which is
24 going to lead to one, two more or whatever, three.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: But see --

108
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- maybe more, I'm not even
2 sure how far. 'Cause the shit you and I talk about,
3 that fucking -- that ain't even all of it.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I mean we could sit
6 here for hours and hours and hours and hours and
7 hours.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, because you have to be
9 careful who you talking to.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Some of this stuff is a
11 little further back and really not even relevant.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: If I'm in prison serving this
14 sentence here -- (unintelligible) -- they're going
15 to give me 30 years.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: So even if they unearth the
18 fucking body, what the hell can you do to me? They
19 can't do a fucking thing to me.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm already in there.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm doing 30 years. I'm 55,
24 55 and 30 is what, 85. I'm not gonna live to get
25 out.
109
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I wouldn't give a fuck if
3 you unearth 20 goddamn bodies, you can't touch me.
4 You follow me?
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I get what you're saying.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't give a rat's ass what
7 you do over there.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: But other people involved,
10 too, and I hate to see them get fucked up.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: My brother being one, you
13 know what I mean?
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, because he might --
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's my brother and I love
16 him.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: And he probably could look out
18 for you at least while you're doing that time, so
19 it wouldn't be so hard.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: It ain't even that. I hate
21 to see him get fucked up over that bitch buried in
22 the ground over there.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean? And
25 then end up in goddamn jail when -- you know, but I

110
1 don't know. That's what I was telling you, when I
2 got that paper today about them demolition [sic] of
3 the house, I don't have no fucking clue what's
4 gonna happen.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: But I do know that it ain't
7 gonna be long in the making that the remains that
8 one will be unearthed and that one will lead to the
9 other one and the other ones will domino effect in
10 this one and to this or that. And then it will be
11 crazy. But what the fuck is the matter, if I'm on
12 a 30 year bid and I'm 60 years old?
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean? I
15 wouldn't give a fuck if you got a goddamn hundred
16 bodies out of that ground.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean? I
19 don't give a shit. I can't tell you how many
20 motherfuckers paid me to fuck them whores while
21 they were locked up in that room.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: No matter how I killed her or
24 how I cut her up or what I did to them.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: I bet you Jim --

111
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: With a warrant, you know what
2 I mean.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: I bet you Jimmie miss --
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, he probably does, man.
5 He liked to come over there and get high with me
6 and hang out.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, he did. He fucking
9 come over there and hang out and get high and
10 fucking -- of course, it was a safe place to --
11 safe place to hide out and kind of --
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- where the dope was free.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: I never, you know -- he
16 brought rocks over there and I'd cook 'em for him,
17 but I never charged him. You know, he'd come get
18 high. Every time he get paid, he'd come over there
19 and get high and he liked that meth. He liked that
20 meth.
21 He'd come over there and he's a freak anyway.
22 He likes to get rough with the girls. He'd could
23 go back there and bang and get rough with a girl
24 and he ain't gotta worry about her telling on him.
25 It was safe, you know what I mean? So he was

112
1 not happy in that spot. He know I got arrested and
2 I haven't had any contact with him.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- (unintelligible) -- it's
5 not like I -- (unintelligible) --
6 SAMMIE EVANS: He probably waiting on you to
7 get back, get back out there, so he can get off
8 some more.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's been online. I know he
10 probably knows I ain't getting out.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: He's probably already
13 realized that, because there were people at the
14 house when I got arrested and seen what happened.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: And didn't come forward.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Scared. They're fucking
19 scared. So they were witnesses to the whole
20 fucking thing, so I'm sure that Jimmy and --
21 (unintelligible) -- you know what I mean? What
22 does it matter?
23 If they take me to trial with going next month
24 anyway, and they give me 30 years for what I'm in
25 for, what does it matter if they tack something

113
1 else on me and on me and on me and on me?
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: I mean, yeah. --
4 (unintelligible) -- it sound like they, you know,
5 it's kind of like having a second-degree felony and
6 they come in and charge you with --
7 SAMMIE EVANS: A misdemeanor.
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- ten third-degree
9 felonies --
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: What the fuck you doing that
12 for? You're wasting your goddamn ink on your
13 paper.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I mean --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: All right. It's the same way I
17 think about when you already in jail and they write
18 you DRs. Like, what's a disciplinary report gonna
19 do --
21 SAMMIE EVANS: -- and I'm facing felonies?
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you're doing mandatory
23 and you're in prison, what the fuck, they write you
24 a DR and put you in -- (unintelligible) -- your
25 Gaintime --
114
1 SAMMIE EVANS: You're right, you're right.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: You're right. It could affect
4 you, if you get Gaintime, but if you have
5 mandatory, then it has no effect on you.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Mandatory sentence, what are
7 you gonna do?
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know that situation right
10 now, they can't touch me.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: They can't touch me. They
13 can't really much touch me. Other than a couple of
14 questioning here or fuck with me. I don't give a
15 rat's ass, you know, about that, you know, who
16 gives a fuck?
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you know
18 how to handle being -- being probed and -- and
19 messed with or whatever.
21 SAMMIE EVANS: Jugged at or whatever,
22 whatever, harassed.
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: Sometimes you talk to them,
24 sometimes you don't. It's all the situation.

115
2 SAMMIE EVANS: I never talk to them.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, I have in the past, but
4 most of the time I don't, just -- (unintelligible)
5 -- you know, it just depends, you know?
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: But just not a good practice.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Nah. I don't got nothing to
9 say. I have absolutely nothing to say, man.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, they -- they don't --
11 they -- I mean they -- I guess, I should sit tight
12 and wait and see if they bulldoze the house and
13 then wait and see what happens, you know what I
14 mean?
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I'm gonna take another
16 leak real quick.
18 (Whistling.)
19 (Using the facilities.)
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, like I say it don't --
21 it's not even about what the police report talking
22 about.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, it is what it is.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: I'm -- I definitely don't like

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1 being here. I gotta get out --
3 SAMMIE EVANS: -- to my son and my daughter
4 and my wife, man.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: Straight up, man, I got a life
7 to live, man. I was going to work, going to
8 school, providing for my family, man.
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, your case is a bullshit
10 case.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know what I mean, the
13 circumstances.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, I'm pretty sure
15 everything will work for me. I just got to keep
16 fighting, man. That's why I'm doing as much as I
17 can even though I got a lawyer, I still got to
18 write these motions and study this case law and
19 stuff, man.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Just stay on top of
21 it.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: If I'm not in there sleep, man,
23 I'm normally studying my case. I used to work out
24 a lot. I don't even work out anymore. I say I'll
25 do that once I get on the street, man.

117
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I know it's hard to --
2 it's hard to fight a case. You really got to stay
3 on top of it.
4 SAMMIE EVANS: When you got that, today?
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. This is what I was
6 telling you about my property being --
7 SAMMIE EVANS: I was asleep when they called
8 mail. They came with regular mail?
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, my lawyer brought me
10 this.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Oh, yeah, yeah, my fault. I
12 forgot you told me you said an attorney came over.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Right. Yeah, the misdemeanor
14 attorney told it to me. They sitting there said
15 something about, um, I don't know where it is in
16 here somewhere it says something about new owner.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: A new owner?
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, I know it. See, that
19 place was paid for and with my fucking money and
20 when it says new owner, it kind of -- it kind of
21 threw me, because --
22 SAMMIE EVANS: I would have to sign something,
23 man.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, not necessary. It
25 depends on how they take it from me. They can take

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1 property from you, man. They --
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Without you not signing
3 anything?
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly, yeah. Here, they
5 said that superseded for new owner.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Multiple residence
8 violations.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Superseded meaning, um --
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: The point that came after.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. I don't know what in
13 the hell that means. That's what I was telling you
14 about my buddy. It kind of scares me. I don't
15 know what this motherfucker --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: So you think he may be the new
17 owner?
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: He knows that body's fucking
19 back there, maybe he's back there trying to do
20 something with it, so that -- you follow me?
21 SAMMIE EVANS: No.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He might be looking out for
23 me.
24 SAMMIE EVANS: That's crazy, man.
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: If I could get word to him, I

119
1 would tell him, don't fuck with it, leave it alone,
2 because even if they fine the house --
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- you know what I mean?
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Because it's not like she's
7 gonna be able to -- (unintelligible) --
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: Hey, what's going on?
10 SAMMIE EVANS: We fixing to use --
13 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. He got the trash books.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: I had this one and this one.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, you probably want
18 that one on top. We used to tie scraps to 'em,
19 make sure it don't wobble or nothing.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, so I don't know what
22 the fuck to do, you know.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. Man, I would be thinking
24 about that evil junk, man. I wonder what that girl
25 gonna get, man.

120
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, you know, you ain't got
2 a right to kill a motherfucker.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: It ain't nobody's business
5 what you do when you're doing stuff.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: 'Specially not no baby.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, that made it worse.
8 But who says what's worse than something else?
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, you right about
10 that.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- one of them, but you start
12 killing a little baby, two and three years old --
13 SAMMIE EVANS: That's out of control, man.
14 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, what the fuck do you
15 gain from that?
16 SAMMIE EVANS: Nothing.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's like motherfuckers
18 raping little kids three and four years old.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: If you gonna rape
21 motherfuckers, at least rape a girl you can fuck
22 I'm not saying rape is right. Rape is wrong, you
23 know what I mean, but why do that to a small child
24 that's innocent, you know.
25 SAMMIE EVANS: That's crazy, man.

121
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, people do -- people
2 do crazy things.
3 SAMMIE EVANS: You right.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: People react crazy things,
5 too. People you would normally think were sane.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Then you have people that put
8 on such a facade, obnoxious you would never think
9 they did anything. Oh, he couldn't have done
10 anything, well, listen to him, he's a deacon in a
11 church and you know or he donates money to the soup
12 kitchen and feeding the homeless and all that. And
13 then you come to found out he's stealing from the
14 church and molesting the children in the process.
15 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah. Never see it coming.
16 You never know who you're deal with.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: Exactly. People -- just
18 that's what I was telling everybody. That
19 motherfucker puts on such a talk game that and his
20 acting game is so good that I would talk to him,
21 you know.
22 SAMMIE EVANS: You wouldn't believe --
23 RUSSELL TILLIS: He never --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: -- he's capable of none of that
25 junk.
122
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: It's like that truck. He
2 talked himself right outta that shit. He called on
3 the fucking phone and said, look, man, I got to
4 have a bill of sale quick.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: I said for what? He said I
7 got a hot truck and the cops are crawling all over
8 me. I said what the fuck you mean, you take a hot
9 truck to your shop and you don't have a bill of
10 sale? You should have got the bill of sale first.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, before you even took it
12 on the property.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: He said I ain't gonna argue
14 about the details, man, I need a bill of sale right
15 now.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I fucking told him that.
18 He fucking gets a bill of sale and talked right out
19 of it, just like that. They got through, they
20 brought him that stolen truck back to him by their
21 authority, with a fucking title. They give him the
22 stolen truck back --
23 SAMMIE EVANS: They legalized it, yeah --
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, and the fucking truck
25 he put the stuff on.

123
1 SAMMIE EVANS: So what he -- what the --
2 RUSSELL TILLIS: He not only talked himself
3 out of it, but he talked himself into getting --
4 SAMMIE EVANS: Getting it legalized.
5 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, getting it back and I
6 couldn't do nothing, but shake my head. I said,
7 boy, you good.
8 SAMMIE EVANS: So --
9 RUSSELL TILLIS: You good.
10 SAMMIE EVANS: -- they probably didn't know
11 what a bill of sale really supposed to look like.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, it's just a bill of
13 sale, but like, I guess, it was legal tender.
17 RUSSELL TILLIS: I mean I did write the
18 motherfucker with my hand, which wasn't notarized.
19 So it wasn't like it was a notarized legal
20 document.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, because I didn't have
25 time. He told me, look, I ain't got time to fuck

124
1 with it, man, I need a bill of sale like right now.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: He said they fixing to load
4 it and on top of that, he tells me -- I said, well,
5 give me the VIN numbers off the vehicle and he said
6 I don't have it.
7 And I'm like how the fuck am I gonna write you
8 a bill of sale, if I don't have no VIN numbers? He
9 said you got to come over here and get them.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: So you want me to walk over
12 to your house with all them cops and get the VIN
13 number off that truck? He said, man, I'm in a bad
14 spot, I need your help.
15 I shit you not, I drove over to that house, I
16 took some papers, I went over to his house and
17 there was probably 30 fucking cops there. And I
18 got out of the car and the cops are like what are
19 you doing, you know, they were stopping me, right?
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I look at my brother and I
22 held the deed up to my property of my property,
23 right?
25 RUSSELL TILLIS: I said, look, I got some

125
1 legal work with some real estate and I need him to
2 sign these papers, so I can give it to my lawyer.
3 The cop took the fucking -- it was a deed -- it was
4 a legal deed, right. So he's looking at the deed
5 and looking at the paperwork and it's real. It's
6 got a stamp it and you know it's a real deed. He
7 says, oh, well, okay.
8 And, you know, so I go back to my brother and
9 I said, hey, just act like you're looking at that
10 and I said, where is the truck? And he point at
11 it. I said, okay.
12 I said in a few minutes when the cop get close
13 to me, I'm gonna to say that I got to piss and you
14 point me over to the part of the fucking fence
15 right behind them cars to take a piss. When I get
16 behind them cars, it's your responsible to get the
17 God cops' attention, so I can go over there and get
18 the VIN number.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, he said, all right,
21 all right, that's a deal, right? So he stood there
22 looking like he was looking at the papers, right,
23 and I fucking -- hey, I gotta piss. He said go
24 over there behind that old fucking car. Hey, I go
25 over there behind the car.

126
1 And, sure enough, he pulls the cop's attention
2 just long enough. I walked right around the corner
3 and write the VIN number down and walked right back
4 out and got between them cars he never even know
5 it. And then he takes that and gets a clear title.
6 I told him, I said, you know, I said it's one
7 thing you get out trouble with that, but, goddamn,
8 that's something else you not only got out of
9 trouble, but now you got the --
10 SAMMIE EVANS: The police assistance.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, yeah, the fucking truck
12 and a clear title, goddamn, man. But he's that
13 smooth. He's that fucking smooth.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Make me think about that song
15 Smooth Criminal.
16 RUSSELL TILLIS: Oh, he's smooth. He got --
17 he kind of got -- he got a sex charge in his
18 jacket, too, from way back.
20 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. He's fucking -- he --
21 SAMMIE EVANS: He ain't no saint, yeah.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He got felonies, too, now.
23 He got it on sex charges way back. But he's been
24 under the radar for so long and he's under the
25 radar.
127
1 SAMMIE EVANS: But he's been on that type of
2 lifestyle, though.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, he still -- he's just
4 under the radar. Goddamn, he come over there with
5 them whores. I got them locked up in the room.
6 They're shackled to the fucking floor.
7 SAMMIE EVANS: That's satisfied his --
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: She's butt naked. She stayed
9 butt naked. He ain't stupid. He know exactly what
10 I'm doing.
11 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, that satisfy his little
12 crave, though.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. He come over there and
14 fuck the shit of her and fuck the shit out of her,
15 she's safe until the bitch recognized him and he
16 freaked out on me.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: Goddamn --
19 SAMMIE EVANS: How did you to know she was
20 gonna recognize him?
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Who the hell knows. And then
22 one time -- I -- I -- was needing a fucking ride,
23 right, I got stranded, so I go over to a store.
24 This was about 15 years ago when they had pay
25 phones beside the stores. I'm standing in front of

128
1 the store and I'm at one talking on the phone,
2 right?
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: And I'm waiting for somebody
5 to drive up, park the car in front of the gas pump,
6 go inside to pay, and I'm gonna go out there and
7 crank the car up and drive off, so I can get to
8 where I'm going.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: All I need is just point A to
11 point B transportation.
13 RUSSELL TILLIS: That's all I want, you know
14 what I mean, I ain't stealing and chopping it up or
15 anything like that, right? I'm talking on the
16 phone, sure enough this guy comes up in a Marquis,
17 a big old fucking Marquis, and he gets out of the
18 car and he goes in and I notice he put his hand in
19 his pocket when he gets out.
20 So I'm thinking, okay, he's still in the
21 switch. So he goes in the store. I'm walking over
22 to the car, pop the door open, crank the car, and
23 drive off. I drive about three blocks and all the
24 sudden there is a Pinto behind me. I don't know
25 where this Pinto -- little Ford Pinto, but the

129
1 Pinto ain't no match for this Marquis, right?
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: So I fucking get on the
4 Marquis and take a couple turns and I speed off,
5 right, and I'm thinking, man, I don't know what the
6 Pinto is -- what was that about, you know? So I
7 pull up in this driveway to fucking turn around.
8 I pull up in the driveway to turn around and
9 this girl comes running out and says, hey, hey,
10 what are you doing in my father's car? Of all the
11 fucking turns for me to take, I turn around in the
12 goddamn guy's own fucking carport. It was his
13 daughter's (laughing) --
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: -- the father around the
16 corner from the gas station. Apparently, he was
17 going to visit his daughter and she stopped there
18 to get some gas. I steal the car, I don't know who
19 was in the Pinto. I never found at the out, but he
20 chased me. I turned around in the driveway and
21 that was the guy's destination in the beginning.
22 Small world.
23 SAMMIE EVANS: Small world.
24 RUSSELL TILLIS: I'm thinking, yeah, she comes
25 running out and she's like, what are you doing with
130
1 my father's car? And I'm thinking, father's car,
2 what the fuck are you talking about? And I'm
3 thinking to myself, there is no way in hell I steal
4 this guy's car and you're his daughter. It's just
5 too fucking -- too coincidental.
6 SAMMIE EVANS: He probably -- he probably got
7 somebody --
8 RUSSELL TILLIS: He did.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: He probably got somebody that
10 was driving that Pinto to help try catch you.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: I don't know who it was. I
12 never did find -- I drove that fucking car down the
13 street about two miles and got out of it and left
14 it. I thought that car is too hot. Fuck that.
15 Yeah, I said fuck that. I ain't --
16 SAMMIE EVANS: That's the same type of
17 coincidence like how your brother --
19 SAMMIE EVANS: -- how that girl spotted your
20 brother.
21 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah, that's my point, yeah.
22 He comes over there thinking he's just gonna fuck
23 her and his usual come over and fuck the bitch and
24 do whatever he wants to do her. And I'll be
25 goddamned, if she didn't recognize him and he

131
1 fucking freaked out. Freaked out. You got to kill
2 her. I said, I ain't got no problem with killing a
3 bitch, but I -- you know what I mean, we do that in
4 due time, you know?
5 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, like you say you got to
6 cook that dope up, man.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: Well, ole Jimmie, he liked
8 that fucking meth, man, but you figure I cook a
9 quarter ounce of dope for him for $300. About $45
10 a gram.
12 RUSSELL TILLIS: Then you have a little party
13 over at the house.
14 SAMMIE EVANS: Make your money back?
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Nah, just to have a party
16 and, you know, party dope.
18 RUSSELL TILLIS: You know, so that way people
19 come over and do dope free and you don't have to
20 spend a lot of money.
22 RUSSELL TILLIS: He brang me the box of
23 Sudafed and I cooked the shit, you know, four boxes
24 will cover almost 8 grams, right at a quarter
25 ounce, you know, he gave me $300 to cook it. He

132
1 averaging about $45 a gram, that's not too bad.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: Nuh-huh.
3 RUSSELL TILLIS: It takes me about two hours,
4 two-and-a-half to cook it. So I get $300 for a
5 couple hours' work.
7 RUSSELL TILLIS: I need to -- you know what I
8 mean?
9 SAMMIE EVANS: That ain't bad at all.
10 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. You know, and it's
11 win/win situation all around.
12 SAMMIE EVANS: You just got you a few
13 different hustles that way you keep money coming
14 in.
15 RUSSELL TILLIS: Yeah. Exactly, yeah, yeah.
16 Well, that's how I support myself pretty much, you
17 know, between the whores and the cooking a little
18 dope, you know, until the police show up with a
19 misdemeanor arrest warrant and, viola, here I am in
20 jail for this.
21 Then the whole fucking thing hits the fan and
22 then I'm laying in my bunk thinking, okay, well,
23 the Public Defender ain't gonna help me, I'm fixing
24 to get 30 years, it looks like I'm gone. You know
25 what I mean?
133
1 I might beat it on appeal, but the odds of
2 them unearthing that fucking body on that property,
3 even if I beat it on appeal, I'm gonna get out and
4 have to fight that.
5 SAMMIE EVANS: You might -- you might be able
6 to -- to win the -- the first go around that way
7 you don't even have to go to prison.
9 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, it sound like they get
10 you.
11 RUSSELL TILLIS: In misdemeanor trial you have
12 to understand objection, cross-examine, direct
13 examination, how -- (unintelligible) -- when the
14 State objects how to lead -- how to lead the
15 witness in telling the jury. It's about
16 presentation.
17 SAMMIE EVANS: So you wouldn't let the Public
18 Defender represent you one you got into the trial?
19 RUSSELL TILLIS: The Public Defender don't do
20 nothing, but just -- they ain't gonna do nothing,
21 but hang a man. I got to go to the bathroom
22 anyway, man. Let me get on out of here and let
23 them boys get on --
24 SAMMIE EVANS: When I get through with the
25 motion, I'm gonna show you the format.

134
1 RUSSELL TILLIS: Okay.
2 SAMMIE EVANS: I'm gonna show you the format
3 of the motion and you tell me what time it is.
4 RUSSELL TILLIS: All right.
6 RUSSELL TILLIS: Hey, look, she type it all
7 for you, though?
8 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah, yeah, she gonna do it
9 like she did the last motion. She gonna make it
10 look real professional and all that, but I want to
11 go ahead and just that include the grounds myself,
12 you know what I'm saying? I do the grounds and I
13 let her do the arguing. I just let her argue.
14 Oh, D gone sleep all day.
15 (End of conversation.)
16 - - -
17
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25

Tillis Jailhouse Confession Transcript Part 1

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1

1 PRE-TRIAL DETENTION FACILITY AUDIO RECORDING BETWEEN

2 SAMMIE EVANS AND RUSSELL TILLIS RECORDED

6 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right. It's on.

7 Time is 1305, 1:05. Today's date is 2/5/16.

8 Detective Dennis Sullivan and Glenn Warkentien, we

9 are here with Sammie Evans to place the recording

10 device on him. That's the microphone.

11 (Music playing in the background.)

12 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: You got pockets on the

13 side here by chance?

14 SAMMIE EVANS: Nuh-huh.

15 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right. If it comes

16 off -- it should be all right, but if it comes off,

17 throw it in a pocket on your shirt.

18 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: You wanna take it cross

19 ways like that?

20 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Um.

21 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: Go cross like that.

22 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Yes. Push it down there.

23 I'm gonna put this one here, because it's --

25 SAMMIE EVANS: I think will hold.

1 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right.

2 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: It comes out just slide

3 it in a pocket somewhere else.

4 SAMMIE EVANS: All right.

5 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: You got socks on?

6 SAMMIE EVANS: Yeah.

7 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: It's sensitive you can

8 put in your sock or if you have to, but obviously

9 you want to closer --

10 SAMMIE EVANS: Right.

11 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- if you can. Just

12 before we go, since all this is on, we'll make sure

13 you came to us voluntarily; is that correct?

14 SAMMIE EVANS: Correct.

15 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Did Detective Warkentien

16 or anyone with Jacksonville Sheriff's Office make

17 you any promises of your assistance?

18 SAMMIE EVANS: No, they didn't.

19 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Okay. Everything you're

20 doing, again, is freely of your own will and you

21 reached out to us. We didn't even know you

23 SAMMIE EVANS: Correct.

24 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- the other day, right?

25 SAMMIE EVANS: Right.

1 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: Okay. Go ahead and have

3 SAMMIE EVANS: Okay.

4 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: The time was what we

5 said, 1:05. Four to six hours, okay?

6 SAMMIE EVANS: Okay.

7 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: If it happens after that,

8 I can't guarantee it won't be on there, so just be

9 cognizant of the time if you see the time is on

11 SAMMIE EVANS: Okay.

12 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: All right. Let's ride --

14 DETECTIVE WARKENTIEN: We'll come back up to

16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: 629.

17 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: I'll be right back. Get

18 out that sun you'll be all right. Just to let you

19 know, too, while we were in there --

20 SAMMIE EVANS: Uh-huh.

21 DETECTIVE SULLIVAN: -- Ebron did do his plea.