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#2 / Winter 2010

2
3 Welcome
A note from the editor

4 A World of Words
Intro by Aegir Hallmundur

6 Martin Majoor

8 Faces #
14 Ale Paul

22 Stephen Coles

30 Tim Brown

38 Nick Sherman

46 Rich Rutter
This magazine was made possible
54 Veronika Burian & José Scaglione
thanks to the kind and generous
support of our partners. Thank you! 62 Work as if You Live in The
Early Days of a Better Nation
Artwork by Jez Burrows
Platinum
Partner 64 P is for Paper
Competition winner Ayaka Ito

Diamond 66 Fakir
Partner Feature by Samantha Cliffe

70 Windows Phone 7
Diamond Feature by Elliot Jay Stocks
Partner
72 A Brief History of Uncial Type
Feature by Dan Reynolds
Diamond
Partner 76 The Ad Section

PAG E 02 CO N T E N T S
Welcome A note from the editor

I’ve recently returned from honesty that I had no idea


speaking at Brooklyn Beta, at whatsoever! Its near-immediate
which I did a presentation on sell-out was as much of a surprise
8 Faces — an overview of how it to me as it was to the thousands
went from a half-baked, slightly clamouring to get a copy.
silly idea to a real, finished,
printed magazine that sold out of This time around, we’ve tripled
all 1000 of its copies within just the print run in an effort to satisfy
two hours. At the end of the talk, the demand. We’ve also upped the
I thanked everyone who had page count, added new features,
bought a copy and unexpectedly partnered with a number of great
found myself with a tear in my eye. companies to turn this from a side
It was as if I’d suddenly realised project into a proper business, and
what had happened, and I felt enlisted the help of many talented
genuinely overcome with gratitude individuals to contribute to an
for everyone who bought a copy issue which may prove to be
of our debut issue. even better than the first!

Many people asked me if I’d known Thanks once again for your
how successful #1 was going to support. We wouldn’t
be, and I can say with complete be here without you!

WELCOME PA G E 03
A World
We live in a world of words.
Technological development in
Our words are no longer passive
things, waiting for the turn of a
As typographers and type
designers, we’re very much part
recent years has seen an explosion page and the glance of an eye. of this process. With contextual
in the ways we appreciate and They are active, they are input: ligatures and glyph substitution,
consume the written word. From software constructs possessed of we can beautify and clarify words
artisanal letterpress to digital logical structure and semantics, as they’re typed; with hinting and
billboards and nanotechnological and connected to a whole world of kerning we can ensure readability
e-ink book readers; the sheer range data. When we type our keystrokes across a range of devices and
of technology we use to display are interpreted: if there’s a ‘va’, resolutions; with unicode we can
type is enormous, and — temporary the kerning may be adjusted, if cover all the world’s languages;
phenomenon or long-term trend — there’s a double-f, the screen may with universal icons and symbols
it will all have an impact on how show a ligature, if the word is we hoped (and, perhaps, still hope)
we design and think about type. part of a search, the screen may to bring type to the illiterate.
start to fill with results before we
Type has gone beyond being even finish typing, and if — quelle
merely moveable: it is now active. horreur! — our word isn’t in a
system dictionary, it will get
highlighted or even replaced
with a ‘correct’ one.
of Words
In our design tools we look forward
to greater availability of OpenType
We’re developing a world
where our words are constantly
Perhaps decades ahead we’ll
be designing type not just
features to automatically add interpreted, corrected and now, with ligatures but whole new
our ligatures, loops and swashes, often finished for us. We’re characters for the parts of words,
and substitute our glyphs for the developing this idea of type as a abbreviations and even whole
correct ones; adding quote marks, system, something long discussed words no-one wants to type in full
fractions, arrow symbols and so and now possible. In simple but anymore. We already have some
on; the list grows. How soon before ever more interesting and complex candidates: what might the ‘lol’
everything we use is unobtrusively ways, the words we type speak character look like? What
cleaning up our mangled words, back to us; they respond to our about ‘wtf’?
teaching us that if we start typing intentions and even correct us.
this word, we can press enter Now, with our phones (and soon, Digital type and text composition
after three characters and it’ll perhaps our laptops and desktops), are going to be very different in the
do the rest, or that if we want an we’re getting used to starting future, we just have to make sure
apostrophe — don’t worry — it’ll a word and letting it suggest that what we end up reading is
add one for us. words we might mean, or even to what we intended to write.
finish them for us with barely a
confirmation needed.

Aegir Hallmundur, November 2010


Martin
Majoor 12345678

Not many type designers would boast You developed your type system of creating a sans
and a serif — and later a slab — from the same form,
about only producing one typeface which you later coined ‘The Nexus Principle’, after your
every six years, but then not every work on Nexus. Has that evolved even further since
2005 (when you wrote the article on your type design
type designer is Martin Majoor. This is philosophy), or do the same principles apply to your
the man who virtually wrote the rule more recent type design projects?

book on super-families and influenced The principle hasn’t changed, although I might
many with his famous type design have extended it a little bit. After I made ‘The Nexus
Principle’ (nexus meaning ‘connection’), that for me
philosophy: a principle that says the was the basic thing about this whole project: to make
serif, sans, and slab serif should all connections; to base it on one thing, make a sans and a
slab, and have all of them connected.
share the same basic structure. We
talked theory with the father of Scala... In the same way, you can connect a fourth font if you
want, and that is something I’ve been experimenting
with, although I’ve never shown or published it. If you
have a serif typeface, cut off the serifs, but not lower
the contrast, does it become a sans-serif or is it simply
a serif without serifs?

And with Nexus, you also have a typewriter font within


the family as well. How does a typewriter font fit in
martinmajoor.com with the overall principle?

PAG E 06 INTERVIEW MARTIN MAJOOR


It doesn’t fit in. It’s just for fun! In What about swashes? You’ve got It is possible to do this from a
Nexus Typewriter, I tried to make swash italics for Nexus. Did you sans-serif, but to me it’s totally
it as readable as possible, but you find that there’s a standard you illegible and doesn’t make sense,
always have this problem with a have for producing swashes, or is so I wouldn’t recommend it. But
very narrow ‘m’ and a very wide ‘i’, that again just a little fun? there are always typefaces — sans
and so on. It’s something that’s not typefaces — which later have
connected to the principle. It’s a lot of fun. Not so long ago, a serif equivalent. I remember
I told somebody that making Syntax — the metal version — which
swashes was one of the happiest is a very beautiful, humanist
times of my type designing life. sans-serif. Much later, there was
I really love calligraphy and a serif version added to this. It’s
certainly the very old, Italian such a horrible thing to say, but it’s
masters of calligraphy. What they so empty. It doesn’t have anything
did often amazes me, as it’s always of the strength of the original
very difficult to make a swash. Syntax. So it’s very difficult to do it
If you make one range of swash in reverse order. I don’t think it’s a
capitals, you can’t stop and you good idea. It is possible, but what
have to make another range, and comes out mostly is not as strong.
maybe a third one. I stopped with
two, but I could have gone on What is it about a serif being first
and done more! But this also has in the process that makes it the
nothing to do with the principle, best starting point?
it’s just an extra thing.
It’s the way history has developed.
Is there ever a scenario — perhaps Serifs were there first. You have to
in other designers’ projects —  ask yourself: where did they come
where the principle wouldn’t work? from? Who made these? How were
they constructed? And that is what
I don’t think so. It’s a very simple my principle is about as well: the
principle. Of course you have to historical explanation. As a type
have the serif typeface. If you have designer, I strongly believe that
that, you just cut off the serifs, these punchcutters from Germany
change the contrast, and that’s and England must have had some
basically it. You can do this with sort of example before they could
Bembo, Bodoni, with everything. start a sans. In England they must
have used Bell or something; in
Is there ever a way you can do it in Germany, they must have used
reverse, if you have a sans first? Walbaum or Didot or Bodoni.

[Left] Nexus characteristics designed by


Wim Westerveld and first published in the
FF Nexus FontFont Focus type specimen

INTERVIEW MARTIN MAJOOR


In your philosophy, 1 you highlight Just to clarify, the original idea
an example of Akzidenz-Grotesk came from the first version of the
potentially being based on display face that Jos created, and
Walbaum because it’s so similar. then you took that and started to
make the text face from that?
Yes, and that’s what I’m
doing together with Jos In fact it was two different ideas.
Buivenga 2 — proving it by One was from Jos and one was Is there going to be a slab variant
just doing it. We're making mine. It was Jos’ idea to create a as well?
a Didot / Bodoni sort of text Bodoni / Didot style display face,
typeface — a serif typeface of and when I saw that, I said, ‘I’m Well, now that you mention it,
course — which is based on trying to prove this sans-serif story, there could be! It’s not what we
a display face Jos worked on
previously, and from this text face,
we create a sans. If you make the
lowercase ‘a’ exactly on the base of

Making swashes was one of


what you did with the serif, you’ll
see that it’s really like a sort of

the happiest times of my type


Akzidenz-Grotesk or an early sans-
serif. This is quite interesting. You

designing life.
can really show that this is actually
the process of the punchcutters
when they started making the
first sans-serif.

Last issue, Jos told us a little about


this collaborative project Questa,
which I believe you spoke about so maybe we can use the Didot sort planned, but who knows, maybe
at ATypI and in Arnhem. What else of typeface to make the sans.’ if it’s a success, in the end we'll
can you tell us about it? make a slab serif.
When do you think we’ll see this,
We’re making progress slowly and live and in the public? You're known for your theoretical
are now at a stage where we've approach and wide appreciation
made a text typeface and a sans- We don’t have a deadline, but if of type history. What do you feel is
serif derived from the serif. We're all goes well, then hopefully we’ll the single most important lesson
making the display typeface again, release it sometime in the spring you've learned from the type
this time based on the serif. of 2011. masters of yesteryear?

1. My Type Design Philosophy:


martinmajoor.com/6_my_philosophy.html
2. See our last issue

INTERVIEW MARTIN MAJOOR PA G E 09


it’s a real, physical thing that
you can hold in your hands.

Helvetica is a clear rip-off of Do you do a lot of book design

Akzidenz-Grotesk. For me, yourself these days?

Max Miedinger is not an I have done, but not anymore. I


stopped because it was a lot of

original type designer. work and I wanted to concentrate


on type design. To me, it was
important to have made a lot
of books, because I know how I
should use typefaces. I always
say you must be a good book
typographer, book designer, or
I’m very much inspired by a lot There’s a lot going on in the world graphic designer to also be a type
of designers from the past; the of typography right now. What in designer. There are of course
people who are original; people particular excites you? type designers who never make
who don’t imitate the things that anything with their types, but I
are already there, and who dare to I am still always excited by feel that one should always make
be original — people like Eric Gill. books — real books, not iPads. The things with his own type.
He’s a very original type designer. iPad is nice, but I like the three-
He did his own thing and didn’t dimensional thing that a book is. Do you feel there’s a problem at
care about what others thought of To me, a book is like a sculpture: the moment with the prevalence of
it or how others did it. There are
lots of examples of designers who
imitate, and for me they’re not
real designers. I always give the
example of Max Miedinger, who
created Helvetica, which is a clear
ripoff of Akzidenz-Grotesk. For me,
he’s not an original type designer,
and I can’t learn anything from
him. However, I can learn from Gill
and people who really created new
things; people who helped the type
world to improve.

PAG E 10
Why is that? We’re at an interesting point in
time, especially with web fonts
Well, I don’t like having the finally taking off.
small caps option as a button in
InDesign. For me, it’s not nice to Everyone is now very excited about
use this. We’re developing, but in a web fonts. And yes, I’m very happy
way we’re not developing. We just that Scala is being used on the I
invent new things that are more Love Typography website. 3 But in
complicated than they used to be, five years’ time, we’ll probably all
and that’s not always good. look back and laugh about how
excited we were about it!
Do you feel that features such
as swashes, which you might I think we’re going see some very
get as an alternative glyph in a ugly websites coming out of the
OpenType font, should be kept to a poor use of all these typefaces we
completely different font file? now have available to us.

I think so, yes. I really would Yes, but that doesn’t bother me.
like to have the small caps in a Let them be. If they don’t exist,
separate font, so you can use it as you won’t be able to appreciate the
an OpenType feature with all the good designs! 8
buttons, but you can also choose
from the list of typefaces, which
is very simple for swashes as
[Above] ‘Phases of the iPads, and what that means for the well. I once wrote an article about

Sometimes
moon’ designed by Mark
future of books, such as the bad digital typefaces, in which I said
Thomson for the ‘Made
with FontFont’ book typography we currently have in that digital typefaces don’t exist

developments
applications like iBooks? because a typeface exists as a
shape. But the way it’s technically

go too far. For


This is all passing and there are presented is always changing:
always solutions. The first desktop from handwriting, to metal type, to

example, I hate
publishing programs — like photosetting, to digital type. Now
PageMaker — were very poor, but we have this new, hi-res display on

OpenType.
we still did things with it. Now the iPhone 4, so things get better
they’re very rich, and yet I do the and better, but who knows how it
same things with it. Sometimes will look in 25 years? Maybe Scala
developments go too far. For will only be used as a screen type
example, I hate OpenType. because there will be no books!

3. ilovetypography.com

INTERVIEW MARTIN MAJOOR PA G E 11


Bembo (hot metal, 11 point)
The best book face ever, both
beautiful and functional. Like
in many faces the digital Bembo
is too thin, too weak and too
perfect. This metal face is
strong and nicely irregular.

Fournier (hot metal, 11 point)


Based on a typeface from 1742
by Pierre-Simon Fournier, this
is quite a ‘modern’ typeface. Its
vertical stress and its straight
serifs were a big inspiration to me.

Deepdene
With Deepdene (1927) Frederic
Goudy made one of the most
beautiful italics. I wish I had
made a lowercase ‘g’ like this.

Romanée (hot metal, 16 point)


Jan van Krimpen is one of my
typographic heroes. His Romanée
from 1928 is his best typeface,
with distinguishing capitals
and an extraordinary italic.
Gill Sans (hot metal, 9 point)
Eric Gill is still by far the best
British type designer. Again this
metal version of Gill Sans from 1928
is superior to its digital counterpart.
I am very much influenced by its
humanistic touch.

Joanna (hot metal, 11 point)


Another Eric Gill typeface (1930)
Joanna is simple and straight, but
surprisingly elegant. The thickness
of the bracketed serifs are in perfect
balance with the stems.

FF Quadraat
Fred Smeijers was my room-mate
and friend at art school. In 1992 I
witnessed the genesis of this great
typeface from close by, and ever since
it has a special place in my heart.

Prensa
This typeface from 1999 is clearly
influenced by the work of W.A.
Dwiggins, another of my typographic
heroes. Cyrus Highsmith designed
this highly original interpretation;
one I look at with great respect.
Ale
Paul 12345678

Ale Paul is one of the most exuberant Argentina has become a hot bed for new typeface
design. Do you feel that Sudtipos has had a major role
characters in the world of type design: to play in that?
not content with creating beautiful
Possibly. Maybe it’s because there was nobody doing
script faces, he fills his font files with stuff with type before, or maybe it’s simply that no-one
more alternate glyphs, off-the-wall knew about it because there was no Internet or social
media. It’s never been promoted in this way before.
ligatures, and lavish ornaments than There were some exhibitions in Argentina and all
you can shake a stick at. We got in around South America in the last eight years that were
free for everyone from Latin American countries. With
touch to talk about the hot Argentinian this, social media, and with new schools opening in
type design scene, in which he’s Mexico, Chile, and Argentina with Masters programs
in Typography, they’ve all helped to create an image
playing a huge role... of something happening in South America. But there
really are things happening here. The Internet is great
for us because we don’t have magazines where we
can show our work; we don’t have enough resources
to pay for an advertisement, and we are very far from
everything. I’m twelve hours from New York!

So it’s a combination of new work and better exposure.

Definitely. But although we have typography in the


sudtipos.com universities now, some schools here still don’t have

PAG E 14 INTERVIEW A L E PA U L
typography in their graphic design The Hague, and some people are I began doing it because I lost
courses. The schools here are not now studying the Masters here in my job in the 2001 economical
focused on the important role that Buenos Aires. Everyone working crisis. I was doing packaging
typography plays in design, and in the Argentinian type industry design for eight years before that,
the problem with that is that many is involved in the Masters course after graduating from university.
designers usually don’t respect the in some way, so I see that as a very I got a cheque from T26, the
intellectual property. But hopefully positive thing. The only potential foundry that was selling my
that will change in the near future. problem I see is that a lot of first typeface. When I got that,
Some people went to study in people think of typography from I thought that if I don’t work in
graphic design, maybe I can do
type design and sell that. You do
it, you polish it, and you see what
happens. So we had some fonts,

I think the focus should be and we thought, why not make


a collective and call it Sudtipos?

on how good we are in using It was like a breath of fresh air


for typography. Not necessarily

typography and not designing because it was good but because it


was new; people from Argentina

fonts to make money. were trying to do a type project.


I never studied typography: all
I knew was packaging design. I
discovered that I was always using
the same fonts because I didn’t
have many for packaging ready to
use on my computer. I met with
a business perspective. I’m not Angel Consuper, a 73-year old
sure where the business is going. I lettering guy who was more of a
think our focus should be on how type-retouch guy who cleans up
good we are in using typography logotypes for agencies. He was
and not designing fonts just to without work too, so I asked him
make money. to begin thinking about some fonts
with a focus on packaging. That
You’ve had great success with was my first approach to hand-
Sudtipos. What has been your lettering design. (Hand-lettering
personal experience in setting is very important in packaging
up and maintaining a successful design because it communicates a
type foundry? lot to the customer.)

INTERVIEW A L E PA U L
After a few fonts, I approached a
guy that used to work in the beer

I’m interested in doing


industry. He said, ‘Yes we love your
work,’ and, ‘Why don’t you publish

things that haven’t been


with us’. They gave me a kind of
brand with my name.

Your designs typically get as close done yet.


to hand-lettering as possible. Are
actual hand-written signs your
main source of inspiration?

When I built a strong packaging


fonts collection — I call it that fonts. I began to study and buy Ministry Script, my first complex
even though it’s not exactly only more books about how to write OpenType font. I learned by error
for packaging — I found myself well, or about different systems because I did a lot of ligatures that
saying that I don’t like just doing for penmanship. I really liked weren’t useful. I keep some fonts
what is straightforward, I like to technology and discovered for packaging, but what I really try
experiment with things that are OpenType a long time ago. I to do is experiment in type. Maybe
very difficult for me to do. I don’t thought I should try to move hand it’s a little difficult because there
have good handwriting, so I like lettering to digital technology. are a lot of people doing scripts
to do nice digital handwriting That was my first experiment. I did with flourishes and everything
looks the same. But I’m not
interested in that: I’m interested
in doing things that haven’t been
done yet.

Everybody always asked me why I


always do script fonts and not text
fonts, so I did Brownstone. That is a
sans serif font, but it is a sans serif
with my touch: with ornaments
and ligatures. When I did a fern
font, I imagined a fern growing
up a wall. I imagined the wall like
white paper, and the plant as a
letter, and designed a letter that
looks like a plant. Now I want to do

PA G E 17
script fonts were never taken the limitations people have in
seriously. It seems like the user mind. I’m doing a font with more
never has the time to investigate than 2,000 glyphs and I think,
a little deeper inside the fonts he ‘Maybe I shouldn’t do code for
is using. It doesn’t have to be a OpenType. Maybe I should say this
script, either: when I hosted some font can only be used in Illustrator
workshops and showed Garamond and InDesign using the glyph
Premier’s options, people said, ‘Oh! palette, and you have to choose
Garamond isn’t so boring after all.’ the glyph one by one.’ I know I will
They find that it has a lot of ending limit my market by doing that,
glyphs; a lot of different options but I’d like to experiment with
and alternates. They discover what people think about that,
something new, but nobody and how they will use it. I used
actually teaches that. Maybe the to be very frustrated when I saw
teacher will teach that Garamond my first complex OpenType script
is a great font for a book, but they user and I found that that they
a letter where the paper is the skin, don’t teach that they can go one didn’t use any alternate — or they
inspired by tattooing. I don’t like step ahead. I think that small step used everything — it looked weird.
the type used for tattoos, so I’m makes a difference with what That’s why I think the difference
doing new fonts for tattoos. The makes a good designer. between designers is in the details.
skin is the new paper. That is the
kind of experimenting — the risk I So the user really is the limitation. What are you looking forward to
like to take. Every day I get emails from people in terms of further technological
saying, ‘I bought your font, I love involvements?
Technology has allowed you to it, but how can I use the swashes?’
create fonts with multiple glyphs, Or they ask me, ‘I want to buy
and OpenType has opened up a your font, but will I be able to use
whole new world in terms of what it?’ Another limitation I found
we can do with type digitally. But is the compatibility between
has there ever been a circumstance applications. It’s not the same
where you’ve felt limited by to use the font in Illustrator as it
technology? is in Photoshop, and Illustrator
doesn’t have the same stylistic
The biggest limitation is the user. sets as there are in InDesign. If I
Everybody knows about OpenType, had more options I would do more
but nobody knows how to use it. complex things, but actually these
Nobody teaches how to use it, limitations are very good for me,
especially with scripts, because because I design new fonts with

PAG E 18 INTERVIEW A L E PA U L
I would be happy with a glyphs exuberant — that you like the plain
palette in Photoshop! Maybe from and simple.
my narrow point of view, I would
like to see some improvements in As I said, I’m a sans serif guy. I
FontLab, but this is very focused don’t want to see paper on the
on the tools. Another thing I want screen; I see a screen as a screen
to see at some point is the ability and paper as paper. When I want
to use my fonts in web type. to see something beautiful, I like
to touch it. I like to buy books to
Are you excited by woff? read them, to open them. I like to
have some kind of personalised
I’m waiting. First I want to see contact with the thing, which
how all the browsers will support doesn’t happen for me on screen.
it, then I want to see how the That could be why I like packaging
browsers will support OpenType design and creating typefaces that
features. After that, I want to see are more focused on a different
if the fonts look good on the web. experience with the customer,
I still haven’t seen any fonts that because I like that real, tangible
made me say, ‘This is better than interaction. I know the web is real.
Verdana.’ I really don’t like how I am on the computer all day. But
most web fonts look: there are a lot still, it’s not as personal. I don’t

The biggest
of discrepancies with the rendering like to buy food on the Internet; I
and the hinting, and nothing is want to go to the supermarket and

limitation is the
really uniform. OpenType features take the packaging, look at it and
are virtually nonexistent right say, ‘That’s good for me.’ I still like

user. Everybody
now. I think everything will grow to be stimulated by design.
and at some point type will look

knows about
on screen like it does on paper. I don’t know about web fonts. I like
Personally, I prefer plain black and it when when graphic designers

OpenType, but
white; I want to read what I need go beyond my fonts, and do a little
to read and that’s all. I like blogs more by adding and amending

nobody knows
because they are image and text, things. That’s where the graphic
everything is plain: just the image design work actually come in.

how to use it.


and the information. I hate to read I don’t think graphic design is
on the screen. taking the font and just typing
it, and the trouble is that all too
It’s interesting — considering often, type on the web is about just
your style is so elaborate and taking the font and typing it. 8

INTERVIEW A L E PA U L PA G E 19
h g
h g
h g
Affair with Laπy LiΩatures
h g
h g
“…because it let me experiment with ligatures.”

h g
h g
C∑ndy Script dulce de le�e!
h g
h g
“…because it’s funny.”

BurguesScriptt de Louisy h g
h g
h g
“…because it made me very happy.”

h g
Mati ¡El príncipe del tipografía!
h g
“…because I love my son.”

h g
h g
h g
z
h g
PielScript ink & needlen
h g
h g
“…because I want to have a tattoo.”

h g
h g
FanScript aguante!
h g
“…because I love sports.”

h g
h g
Adoi� Script, el amor de mi vida
h g
“…because I love people getting married with it.”

BROWN�ONE �ur� �
h g
h g “…because people can see I’m not just a ‘script whore’.”

h g
h g Find and buy these typefaces at 8faces.com/2/fonts
Stephen
Coles 12345678

For the past six years, Stephen Coles You’ve recently left your role as Type Director at
FontShop. What’s next for you personally?
has been ‘The FontShop Guy’, serving as
Director of Type in their San Francisco It’s mostly been freelance work, consulting with
foundries and websites where typography is a focus.
office. Now he’s left to pursue other It was difficult to leave FontShop, but it was good to
projects and revive the excellent make a public announcement and say I’ve moved
on. Nobody would have thought to ask me for my
Typographica. We spoke to him about help with anything because I’ve been known as ‘The
what’s next... FontShop Guy’ for at least the last six years. So it’s
been fun work on a few side projects.

My main focus now is a database of typefaces in


use. I’ve always been interested in how designers
choose and use type. Foundries have become more
sophisticated in how they promote their stuff.
Complete and useful typeface specimens are much
more common now, so that helps in type selection.
But seeing how a font performs in the real world is an
important part of making that choice, and there has
never been an independent resource dedicated to that.

Is this new site going to be maintained by a centralised


source, or are you going to allow foundries to
stephencoles.org contribute to that database?

PAG E 22 INTERVIEW STEPHEN COLES


That is definitely something we to do that we want to make it as are just twelve people. I was
want to do: we want to make it independent as possible; so there the only guy that was dedicated
very open and independent. At may be some foundry sponsors, just to typography. There were
the moment there are a couple but the goal won’t be to sell web developers, tech support,
of partners on it and it’s pretty typefaces from any one foundry: accounting, administration and all
closed because we want to build our real goal for the project is for it of that; but I was the only actual
something that’s presentable first, to be more of an educational and type guy there.
but the idea is that everybody inspirational resource.
can participate in it; becoming The office in Berlin is in charge of
something like Typedia. 1 Who are you developing this with? the FontFont foundry production
and is the headquarters for all of
Right now I’m working with Nick the other FontShops. There are
Sherman, Petr van Blokland, more type people there, of course,
Indra Kupferschmidt, and Marc but as far as FontShop.com and all
Oxborrow. The idea is to start of the content that was created for
talking bout type in use and build that site and all the auxiliary sites
an archive. We hope to involve around it such as The FontFeed 2
font resellers and foundries soon. and FontStruct, 3 all of the type
Pulling from their archives of their content was basically just me. We
own fonts in use and inviting them did get help from people like Yves
Is it going to have any links to participate in other ways. Peters who runs The FontFeed,
to Typedia? and designers and developers
Can you give us an insight into who work on other sites. My role
I’d love to work together with what you did day-to-day was creating content and creating
Typedia and it would make a lot at FontShop? the experience for people and
of sense. Typedia has that little designers so they could learn how
‘in the wild’ section for each font FontShop is a much smaller to find what they need as far as
page, which is currently pulling organisation than most people shopping for fonts is concerned.
from Flickr. Even though we have realise. I think one thing we all
machine tags working for Flickr, it’s fought against was the idea that Is there anything in particular you
still not a very standardised way because of all the history behind miss about that?
of sharing typefaces in use; so this it, all the FontShops around the
new site can hopefully plug into world, and all of the great type Obviously when you have
that and share the images with designers the FontFont library something where thousands of
those kinds of sites, and also bring represented, it is a massive people come to look for fonts
in font data from them, sharing organisation. But really, in the everyday — where you have the
information back and forth and San Francisco office — which runs ability to shape how that looks and
making it easier for users. In order the website FontShop.com — there how it’s organised for them — that

1. typedia.com 2. fontfeed.com
3. fontstruct.com

PAG E 24 INTERVIEW STEPHEN COLES


was the thing I enjoyed the most speaks well of the FontShop name,
about the role. and it was something fun to build,
so they built it. It all comes from
The FontFeed has become a great Erik’s guidance. He isn’t involved
resource for all things type. Is it a on a day-to-day basis, but he
challenge to remain ‘independent’ founded the company because he
while being linked to FontShop? loves type, and that’s pervaded
through to each new project that
Well I don’t think it was, they fund or work on. As long as
particularly for Yves, whose main they maintain that kind of passion
role has been running that site. for typography, they’ll always be
Being on his own and able to say set apart from other sellers.
what he wanted on that website
made it easy for him to feel
independent. We set down some
guidelines when we created the

One of the great things about


blog; as you know, FontShop is a
sponsor and links to fonts will go

FontShop is that they’re


to FontShop.com, but beyond that,
everything that each author says

willing to put resources into


is their own opinion and their
own voice. They can write about

things that don’t necessarily


whatever they want and with
complete freedom.

It really is a nice independent drive a lot of sales.


venue, and I think one of the great
things about FontShop is that
they’re willing to put resources
into things that don’t drive a lot
of sales. It’s really educational
and it’s the kind of thing that Even though you’ve left FontShop, hopefully they’ll still let me put my
they’ve always been willing to put are you going to continue writing word in from time to time.
money into, which is a rarity in a for The FontFeed?
business of that size. Fontstruct is Typographica... The FontFeed... The
another example of that, too: it’s I hope so. We’re still discussing Mid-Century Modernist... How do
completely free. It’s not a revenue how things will work, but as far you balance your time between
driver, but it’s just something that as I know my name is up there, so all of these projects?

INTERVIEW STEPHEN COLES PA G E 25


I wish I could say that I’m very passions, and whenever I get the wayside — like Typographica
organised about it and I’ve excited about a particular piece of has been lately — because all of my
determined where it makes more furniture for example, then The font love has gone into FontShop
sense to put my time during Midcentury Modernist is where my for the last few years. When I say
the day, but really these all just time is going to go for that day. that will change, it’s because now
represent different interests and Eventually some things get put by I can dedicate my typography
interests to Typographica and
these other things. It really is just
a matter of personal interest in
projects that gets me motivated

I think that the most exciting for that day.

thing [right now] is the general Part of your ‘next step’ is to revive
the relatively quiet Typographica.

interest in typography. Do you have any major new plans


for the website now that you have
more time to work on it?

No, I don’t have anything that I can


reveal yet. We have lots of plans,
but nothing that has enough shape
to describe it. I will definitely be
doing the ‘Fonts of the Year’ review
that we missed last year. We’re
going to make sure we do one for
2010, and maybe even a review
of the decade of fonts. Now I have
a place for my own views about
the industry — some of which I
probably couldn’t have voiced
before being at FontShop — I’m
going to be a little bit more
opinionated, which is something
I look forward to doing because I
have a lot of opinions!

So we can expect to see quite a few


more posts on Typograhica now
that it’s your main type outlet?
That’s right. I’ll be writing a lot about more relevant to a broader

Fighter
about the way that fonts are audience, and that’s exciting.
used on this new site — the ‘fonts
in use’ site — but anything else Especially on the web, everyone
typographic is going to go there. is probably going to say that web
type is what is the most exciting
What excites you in the world of to them right now, which makes 1 A Better Son/DAughter rilo Kiley
typography right now? sense because that’s the biggest
technological breakthrough of the
interluDe ColD ColD WAter (StringS) MirAh
I think that the most exciting last couple of years. But I think 3 inK on the PAPer the ProM
thing is the general interest in it’s really the extension of that:
4 PePitA CAlexiCo
typography. It was such a niche it’s that people will now suddenly
profession and field for so many notice that, ‘Hey, I’m not looking 5 thiS PlACe iS A PriSon the PoStAl S
years, and so esoteric, and now at the same three typefaces online 6 nuDe AS the neWS CAt PoWer
anybody knows what a font is and anymore.’ And so the people who
that actually is a very new thing. aren’t just font geeks are going 7 Serge FolK iMPloSion
That’s probably been the case to continue to be more aware of 8 the lAnDlorD iS DeAD Do MAKe SAy th
9 Don't holD your BreAth CAllA
for maybe ten or fifteen years, typography, which is a great
but in the scheme of publishing thing for everyone.
that is a very short time and it’s 10 tAKe A WAlK SPoon
11 DeStroyer the KinKS
exciting to see people actually I’m really glad you mentioned the
paying attention to what they general interest in typography,
see — not just in terms of what it is because it’s a question I asked 12 SWeeter thAn Anything Bonnie "Pr
semantically, but the design of the
typography and the design of the
people in the first issue. And I
agree with you: I feel there’s a
13 velvet WAltz Built to SPill
typeface — so I think that will make resurgence in interest and the interluDe ColD ColD WAter (DruMS/ClAPPing/Cho
everything that we do and write layman is more aware of type 15 WAKe uP the WAlKMen
16it is.
not the SAMe
then he was a few years ago.
believe You wouldn’t have Ben FolDS
I think that many of the people you been 17 DArKneSS
able to produce and have the PoliCe
so

18 CAn't get uSeD to thiS John Cunnin


asked — and I am guilty of this as much success with a documentary
well — tend to be sequestered in like Helvetica ten years ago,
our little world of font geeks and you can
but 19 DuKeS uP
now because it’s MoDeSt MouSe
often we don’t notice or we don’t
20 DeAth oF A DiSCo DAnCer the SMit
something many more people are

to people
talk about typography outside aware of. That documentary was
that world; so it’s hard to tell interluDe
interesting ColD ColD WAter
who weren’t (StringS) MirAh
sometimes that it really is growing
designers, and I think that that’s PoStluDe enCore ChAnt FroM My BlooDy
in general interest, but I really do an important thing to note. hultSFelD FeStivAl, SWeDen, 4
8

INTERVIEW STEPHEN COLES PA G E 27


h g
h g
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A magnificent 30 second
Affair with Laπy LiΩatures
KNOCKOUT h g
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Amplitude
‘…because it let me experiment with ligatures.’

h g
with all the

h g
C∑ndy Script dulce de le�e!
h g
of the mid-century modernist era! A journey recorded with

h g
‘…because it‘s funny.’


Scala via
BurguesScriptt de Louisy h g
Salt Lake City,
Stockholm,
Berlin,
San Francisco,

h g
and Oakland.

With the enthusiastic help of those variant, stylish heroes, italic, bold, bold italic, and by the grace

h g
of one cat,it the
‘…because madeadventure continued. One last peak to climb. A visit to an original. A face that has
me very happy.’
been evolving steadily since 2002. Behold, the deadly sword-points and flying fox tails of Mount

Pitu .
Mati, el príncipe470
del tipografía!
characterſ
h g
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& 3 superb weights .

‘…because I love my son.’

h g
h g
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R z
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Robust, geometric lines from the

PielScript ink & needlen


klavika plain
h g glowed in the slow sunset. A low

h g
‘…because I want to have a tattoo.’ ring shone like an expectant nim-
bus. Serifs flew. Inexorable. It was

h g
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FanScript
Clifford
Kobayashi
aguante!
Georgia
Carter
vs.
h g
‘…because I love sports.’

Freight
o
inc m

h g
ing
An

h g
Adoi� Script, el amor de mi vida
h g
train,
‘…because I love people getting married with it.’

BROWN�ONE �ur� �
h g stretching time. Seconds expanded in a flurry.
Strokes modulated. Axes swung. Only a scant

h g
few adepts could identify the disctinct forms


in the mælström. Awe redrew all our faces. J
‘…because people can see I’m not just a “script whore”.’

h g
h g Find and buy these typefaces at 8faces.com/2/fonts
Tim
Brown 12345678

What started as a school project You’re in the process of redesigning Nice Web Type.
How is that going? You’re documenting it on Tumblr?
propelled Tim Brown into the spotlight
and his current role as Type Manager Yes, that’s what I wanted to do. More important than
redesigning the site is talking to people about how I
for Typekit. We talked to Tim about Nice approached designing it. I haven’t met anybody who
Web Type and his process of designing designs the way I do, and I want to see what people
think about that. I wanted to open up and share what
from the type outwards... I’m doing.

What is your method of design? How do you think that


it differs from other designers?

It’s reflected in the outcome of my final designs. Most


often I start with markup and content. I used to work
at Vassar College, and we wouldn’t always have content
for our site before we designed for it. By reading the
content and talking to the client, you get a feel for
what it’s about, what people need to use the site for,
and what their experience will be as they absorb the
content. From the content, you can then take cues
about the typeface selection.

My considerations are: reasons, solutions, emotions.


nicewebtype.com Why am I making this site? What are the reasons

PAG E 30 INTERVIEW TIM BROWN


people are going to be here? Why composition, type is the genesis of
does it need to exist? That’s the what I do. From the typeface, you
absorbing content part. Solutions can get proportions for the layout,
are the functional parts of the historical references that you
site that need to exist. I’ve taken can use for decisions in pairing
a hard line with the Nice Web fonts, or size-relationships. You
Type redesign: I’m not putting in have so much flexibility when you
anything that doesn’t absolutely use type as that atomic element;
need to be there. That’s partly that starting point. I think that is
because I have questions about what’s different about how I design
the conventions we stick to as compared to other people: I don’t so I started doing what I’m doing
web designers; those that exist start with a layout and then choose with Nice Web Type now, just not
because we’ve been relying on type; I start with type and then in public. I was building a site,
them for years. Why does the site grow out from that. little by little, and keeping notes
need to show you navigation all about it. The site was my way of
the time? Why does the site need How long has the Nice Web Type bringing typography and web
to show you the search as part of website been going? design together when my college
the ui? Google have been doing curriculum couldn’t.
some interesting things with Since 2006 or 2007. The website is
their homepage with elements quite young compared to the idea From your point of view, has it
that don’t show up until you start of the project, which started while changed much in terms of what
moving the mouse around. I was in college. That was my bfa you’re seeking to accomplish with
thesis, which came about because the project and the kind of content
Once I know exactly what needs I just fell in love with a number of you cover?
to be present, I can start doing things all at once. In typography
rough sketches and deciding class, there was the balance of It has, but I’m trying to return what
where things should be placed. classically good typeset pages and I was trying to do in college. I still
That’s when I get to the typeface type as a formal thing. There’s a love Robert Bringhurst’s book, 1
selection: when I have an idea of right and wrong in type. If you but at the time it was my only and
where things should be placed learn certain rules, you’re doing favourite resource. What I wanted
and an intimate knowledge it right. There are no such rules to do was like Richard Rutter did
of the content. I start to think in fine art: there’s just something with webtypography.net: to apply
about how I want people to feel magic to it. At the same time, I all the rules to web design and give
about this, which always leads was learning about web standards people a guide. 2 After school, I
me to typefaces first rather than because I was working in the read a lot and followed what others
colour, photography, or layout. publications office in my college, were doing. I read everything that
Although I certainly appreciate the and Jeffrey Zeldman’s Taking Your Richard posted; he was a huge
power of those elements and of Talent to the Web was on the shelf, influence on me. Jon Tan and

1. The Elements of Typographic Style


(Hartley and Marks, 1992)
2. Rich talks more about his project
from page 46 onwards

PAG E 32 INTERVIEW TIM BROWN


Jason Santa Maria were as well;
I’ve been reading their stuff for
years. Saving the things that other
people write was really important,
and that’s how Nice Web Type
started; not only bookmarking
them, but writing a little bit about
them in the bookmark description.
When Ma.gnolia 3 came out, it
was amazing, but then it crashed
early in 2009 and I lost most of
that work. That event made me
think differently about the project,
and I started to write. That’s what
propelled it into the site it is now.

Is it hard to maintain a the site


with up-to-date information in a
constantly changing climate?

Although there’s a lot going


on, I don’t feel that it’s hard to people and looking on websites,
follow, although I do admittedly it’s very impressive. The work

I don’t start with


spend every day thinking about that Peter Biľak is doing with
it! When I was working at Vassar Typotheque 4 is wonderful. It’s

a layout and then


before Typekit hired me, it was a beautiful redesign, and he’s
a challenge to remain aware of a smart guy; I really like what

choose type; I
things, but it’s what I like to do. he’s doing with that service. Tim
Ahrens at Just Another Foundry 5

start with type


Even in the short space of time has also got a great service offering
since we published issue one, a lot really crisp typefaces for the

and then grow


of things have changed. How do screen. What the guys at Webtype 6
you feel about the foundry-specific are doing is also really inspiring.

out from that.


services that are popping up?
Services as a model is what I like.
I haven’t tried anything besides I knew I liked Typekit even before
Typekit. I’ve looked at them, but they hired me, because it makes
from what I know by talking to things so much easier. You don’t

3. The now defunct social bookmarking service 4. typotheque.com


5. justanotherfoundry.com
6. webtype.com

INTERVIEW TIM BROWN PA G E 33


the file size, you have to think
about the subsets, how much you

Until we don’t have to support want to include on your page,


the definitions and connecting

ie8, it’s going to be hard to go them to css selectors; there are


conventions. So the model of a ‘kit’

woff all-in. that goes with your site or project


is comforting.

What can you tell us about your


day-to-day role on Typekit?

I’m type manager, so I talk with


have to worry about updating font that. It’s also nice to have all of all our foundry partners, update
files when something changes, my type selection in one place: a all the fonts in the library and
or configuring font matching project-based spot to think about examine them with the partners
between @font-face definitions type and to group and study to see how they’ll perform on the
and css declarations. The syntax things. I think services like that are web. I’m in the process — along
is changing all the time. The woff the way forward. with Jason and Mandy Brown — of
format is coming along, but until evaluating our library and
we don’t have to support ie8, it’s Do you think there are any improving not only the quality, but
going to be hard to go woff all-in. standards emerging? Or is all helping people find and use the
Complexity is needed in the different competition pulling type. So part of my job is caring
@font-face definitions; it’s just everything in different directions? for the library, technically, and
easier to let somebody else handle liaising with our foundry partners,
Well, there are conceptual things who are amazing people. It’s a
that were very undefined before, dream for me to be working with
with Typekit in particular. The the type designers that Typekit
guys I work with — Jeff Veen, is working with; they’re just
Ryan Mason, Ryan Carver, Greg incredibly smart people. Experts.
Veen, Jason Santa Maria, and Matt I can always consult one of them
Collier — made part of the effort and learn more. It’s incredible.
before I came over there: they’re They have a reverence for tradition
helping people think about fonts that you don’t often find on the
as this new asset. It’s not like web, and that is in line with my
you just rig fonts to your css and own style of designing: thinking
use them normally. There’s a lot about the meaning of things, the
more to it: you have to manage math involved in typography,

INTERVIEW TIM BROWN


and the cultural implications of writing posts on the Typekit site. To
doing things a certain way. They be writing for the Typekit blog is an

What we learn
are a great group of people to immense joy for me. It’s everything
spend my time with. The other that I want to be doing in my job.

is reflected in
part of my job is equally fun and What I learn goes into the
probably what I want to be doing Typekit service immediately. The

the product
if I could be doing anything. It was developers I work with are the
what I was doing with my spare smartest people I’ve ever met, and

right away.
time — with Nice Web Type and they iterate on Typekit every day.
when working at Vassar — learning They’re always working on it, and
about web typography and sharing deploying new stuff to the live
it with other people. Jeff Veen has code. What we learn is reflected
provided some awesome direction in the product right away, and we
to our team, and one of the things can see if people like it, and then
I look forward to doing more of is learn even more. We have a ‘tools’
section for our foundry partners, features we can expect to see
which tells us what the included soon in Typekit?
glyphs are, how that matches up
to our default subset, and how it We’re working on language
will match up to our other subsets, support. The thing I’m most
vertical metrics information, and excited about is the way writing
the relationship to css. If it isn’t will influence the service. There
set the right way, type can be are twelve of us now. We have
positioned differently in different daily stand-up meetings and
browsers and can get clipped. So everybody counts. We’re always
the tools at Typekit started as an fielding ideas and organising
exploration into how type behaves plans. The educational blog posts
on the web, and later those tools that we’re planning will not only
get built into Typekit so that all be useful to people, but also to
our foundry partners can use this Typekit the organisation. We’re
service to check out their fonts, going to have a section called
change them, and upload new ‘Learn’, and the blog — and the font
versions to us. It’s amazing to do pages themselves — are all going
what I want to do and use that to be integrated to help people
knowledge to make people happy, decide on particular typefaces for
and make their designs better. different reasons and how to use
them. For me, that’s what is most
Are there any juicy ‘coming soon’ exciting about my job. 8

INTERVIEW TIM BROWN PA G E 35


Q
Scala
Sans surfer.


Now featuring Brown & Co.

unibody

CRONOS

wave blend!

№3
Goudy Swash,
Then, with a

Shelly sang Róisín Dubh


A
Róisín ná bíodh brón ort fé’r éirigh dhuit:
Caslon Tá na bráithre ’teacht thar sáile ’s iad ag triall ar muir,
Tiocfaidh do phárdún ón bPápa is ón Róimh anoir
’S ní spárálfar fíon Spáinneach ar mo Róisín Dubh.

Is fada an réim a léig mé léi ó inné ’dtí inniu,


Trasna sléibhte go ndeachas léi, fé sheolta ar muir;
An éirne is chaith mé ’léim í, cé gur mór é an sruth;
’S bhí ceol téad ar gach taobh díom is mo Róisín Dubh.

Mhairbh tú mé, a bhrídeach, is nárbh fhearrde dhuit,


Aldus Is go bhfuil m’anam istigh i ngean ort ’s ní inné ná inniu;
D’fhág tú lag anbhfann mé i ngné is i gcruth-
Ná feall orm is mé i ngean ort, a Róisín Dubh.

Shiubhalfainn féin an drúcht leat is fásaigh ghuirt,


Mar shúil go bhfaighinn rún uait nó páirt dem thoil.
A chraoibhín chumhra, gheallais domhsa go raibh grá agat dom
-’S gurab í fíor-scoth na Mumhan í, mo Róisín Dubh.

Dá mbeadh seisreach agam threabhfainn in aghaidh na gcnoc,


Verdana is dhéanfainn soiscéal i lár an aifrinn do mo Róisín Dubh,
bhéarfainn póg don chailín óg a bhéarfadh a hóighe dhom,
is dhéanfainn cleas ar chúl an leasa le mo Róisín Dubh.

Beidh an Éirne ’na tuiltibh tréana is réabfar cnoic,


Beidh an fharraige ’na tonntaibh dearga is doirtfear fuil,
Beidh gach gleann sléibhe ar fud éireann is móinte ar crith,
Lá éigin sul a n-éagfaidh mo Róisín Dubh.

Find and buy these typefaces at 8faces.com/2/fonts


Nick
Sherman 12345678

Nick Sherman has his fingers in many Tell us about your love for wood type and what you get
up to at The Hamilton Wood Type & Printing Museum.
type-related pies: he was almost single- How did you get involved with the project?
handedly responsible for the redesign
It’s a pretty unique wood type museum, not only
of MyFonts, he serves on the advisory because it’s one of the few type museums in the
board for the Hamilton Wood Type & world, but because it’s definitely the only one that is
dedicated exclusively to wood type. It’s located in the
Printing Museum, he consults for the original factory building for Hamilton, which used to
highly-praised Cooper Union Typeface be the largest manufacturer of wood type in the world.
At one point it had more or less a monopoly on wood
Design program, and has now joined type, at least in America.
the ranks of The Font Bureau. We sat
I got involved with them through a project I did at
down to talk about the family that is school. It was an intercut wood type project where
the type design community... I designed my own experimental, modular wood
typeface, and produced it as a printable, movable type.
It was through that project that I met someone from
the museum, and they encouraged me to go out and
spend time there. So I took a whole month and did a
sort of residency there, and I’ve been involved with
them ever since. I’m now on their ‘Board of Advisors’.
Last year they had their first annual Wayzgoose as
a means of encouraging more people to come to the
nicksherman.com museum and get more wood type activity going on.

PAG E 38 INTERVIEW NICK SHERMAN


The first time I was there, I was
doing a lot. They had a lot of wood
type that had to be identified,
and I helped them do that. I did
some printing just for fun and
to get acquainted with the wood
type, and I spent a lot of time just
looking around. There’s so much
there; it’s kind of like a playground
for me. They have a pretty
impressive collection of old wood
type specimens that I spent a lot of a look at things, to take notes and It’s funny: I gave a talk recently
time looking at; not necessarily for photos, and to put everything into at the Type Directors Club here in
anything specific, but just to take my mental database. New York, and it was about wood
type. I started the talk by clarifying
Do you think there’s more interest that a lot of people think of me as
in wood type these days? ‘the wood type guy’, but there’s a
lot of other stuff that I’m interested
Yes, for sure. I think not only in in. Metal type is just as interesting
wood type, but letterpress printing to me as wood type.
in general. I think wood type plays
a big part in that because it’s much I’ve been working with The Dale
more forgiving than metal type. Guild Type Foundry and we’ve
It’s almost like training wheels recently launched their website.
for letterpress. If you’re learning They’re one of the very few
to use wood type, the concepts type foundries that can create a
are easier to understand because foundry-type font from drawings
it’s on a larger scale. I also think of letters all the way through the
that part of the reason why wood process of making patterns and
type is a big part of this letterpress cutting matrices, finally casting
resurgence is that it tends to it as a metal font. The history of
show the texture a lot more, due the company is really interesting.
to the wear and tear being more The American Type Founders
evident on such a large scale. The Company — which was at one point
imperfections draw people in. the largest producer of metal type
in the world — slowly got smaller
Do you enjoy doing work with and smaller as the demand for
metal type as well? metal type decreased. The last

INTERVIEW NICK SHERMAN


stuff was, and he bought all of it over again: get the dates down, get
and continued casting type. But I the names down, the places, and
think that Theo has done enough things like that. It was almost as
type casting for his lifetime, so much of a learning experience for
he’s just recently sold The Dale me as the students, because I had
Guild Type Foundry to my friends to re-learn everything in order to
Dan Morris and Michael Courier, teach it. It had been so long since
both of whom are New York-based I’d thought about type on that
letterpress people. basic a level.

You do a lot of teaching as well, You were virtually single-handedly


including overseeing a lot of stuff responsible for the MyFonts.
at The Cooper Union — is that right? com redesign and their lovely
newsletters. Was it hard to leave a
Yes, I’m involved. My technical project you had such a big hand in?
title at The Cooper Union is
‘advisor’. I’d been helping them Definitely. In some ways I feel like
figure out who to come in to talk I still haven’t totally left. As far
and what kind of material to be as working situations go, I’m not
teaching. I did the website for technically working with MyFonts
them as well, but I’m also going to anymore, but all the people I
be taking part in the programme worked with there are the greatest
by attending the classes. people ever, and I still talk to
them on a daily basis. I send them
What has becoming an educator emails on a weekly basis saying,
done for your own understanding ‘This is broken. Fix it,’ or just giving
of type? them quick ideas about what they
should do to make things better.
person who was trained at atf You learn that when you have to So I’m definitely still watching
was a guy named Theo Rehak, and teach somebody something that over it like it was my child. It’s not
when they went out of business you’re familiar with, you have to something I feel I could just walk
in 1993, he bought a lot of all of really know whatever it is you’re away from, especially because it
the most important stuff that was talking about, especially the was a continuation of work that I
at atf. He got a job there because history. I would have a general had been doing in school. A lot of
he wanted to figure out how to idea of what was going on — and I my motivation — even working for
do type casting for himself. By could explain it generally — but in MyFonts — was selfishly motivated.
working with them, he got a good order to give a good lecture about It was stuff that I wanted to see. I
feeling of what the most important it, I basically had to learn it all wanted a website that did this, so

INTERVIEW NICK SHERMAN PA G E 41


That’s been the main thing that
I’ve worked on with Font Bureau
so far. It’s interesting going from
working at MyFonts, which is the
largest collection of fonts in the
world. There is obviously a huge
variation in how fonts are made,
how they’re packaged, and how
they’re sold; different foundries do
different things in different ways.
Working with Font Bureau, it’s so
much more focused and I can have
more control over how the fonts
are shown. All the people involved
at Font Bureau have this long
history of working with type and
understanding how it’s used. A lot
of the people at Ascender worked
on Verdana and Georgia, and all
the screen fonts that people have
been relying on for so long. I had
to know about web fonts when I
was at MyFonts because it was the
upcoming thing, but now — even
though it’s less than a year later — 
so much has changed with how
people are using fonts online, and
the general reality of web fonts. It’s
crazy how quickly it’s moving.

I was building it around that idea. still have a lot of ideas for things It must be difficult at times!
Obviously I thought about helping I wanted to do, and I left a to-do
other people, and we had to do list a mile long, but I’m definitely I feel like part of my job is to try
testing and things like that, but happy with the way it turned out. to stay on top of things. I dedicate
it was something that I felt really time every day to making sure
strongly about, and that I still feel Have you been heavily involved I know what’s going on: how
really strongly about. That’s why with the Webtype project that Font technology has evolved, and
it was such a good job for me. I Bureau are a part of? how the standards and processes

PAG E 42 INTERVIEW NICK SHERMAN


are going. It’s much more time
sensitive now than a lot of the

When you have a typeface that


other stuff that I had worked on,
but I like it. The more I work on

has been worked on for years


it, the more I’m interested in it;
especially working with people

and years, and you’re ready


like David Berlow. It’s amazing
working with him because he

to release it to the world, it’s


understands things in a way that
is unlike anybody that I know.

important to do it right.
He’s kind of like this mad scientist
in a way. I’ll think I have a good
understanding of how it works and
what the ideal situation should be,
and then I’ll talk to him about it for
twenty minutes and my mind will
be totally changed.
present things. In terms of how of a better word — competition;
You’re involved with type in many the extremes of the type world but he would put me up when I
different ways. How have those come into play, it’s great that the was visiting San Francisco. The
extremes from the type world fed type world is so small; there are type community feels a lot more
into each other and your work? always so many crossovers as far like a family.
8
as projects that I’m working on.
One of the things I’m most Someone that I would have worked
interested in is not just type, but with at MyFonts might come into
the way in which it’s presented. The Cooper Union to teach a class.
When you have a typeface that It’s such a small community, and
has been worked on for years and everyone is so interconnected that
years, and you’re ready to release it’s hard not to have crossovers.
it to the world, it’s important to It’s nice. A lot of times the
do it right. There are only a small ‘competition’ is just a good friend
number of people who really of yours who happens to be doing
think about it in depth. When I’m something similar. Stephen Coles
presenting digital fonts — and even is a perfect example of that with
fonts that are purely digital in the me when I was working at MyFonts
sense of web fonts — there are still and he was working at FontShop.
a lot of the same principles that We had very similar jobs at
apply in terms of how you should companies that were — for lack

INTERVIEW NICK SHERMAN


Auto•Auto•Auto
Feijoa & Aivy
“This sans-serif family from Underware is a stylish but highly usable face,
equipped with a good range of weights and typographic fixings like small caps and oldstyle figures.
Es la verdad.
However, the fact that it has three different sets of italics — varying from tame to lively and swashtastic — is what
makes it really interesting to me, and versatile enough for any variety of uses.

Liza Pro, c’est magnifique!


“ This script from Underware is a masterwork of OpenType functionality and a highly
considered take on how to emulate hand-painted lettering with a systematic set of typographic
rules. A lot of thinking and problem solving went in to the font in order to provide great results
without requiring lots of work by the typesetter. Its exuberant style is also hard to ignore.”

Benton Sans & Miller


“I realize they aren’t the most exciting typefaces in the world They just work really, really,
from a visual standpoint, but it would be hard for me to make well. Plain and simple, they get
any kind of personal top 8 list without including them. the job done without any fuss.”

••• Bell C entenni al •••


“A specialized typeface by Matthew
Carter, Bell Centennial was developed
specifically for use in phone books.
The letterforms have an odd appearance Bass, S Phase IV, Why Man Creates St, Jetstream, BKLYN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 535–1927
at large sizes due to their ‘ink traps’, CARTER & CONE
but these notches improve readability 3rd Planet “Gæa”, Sol Star System, Orion Arm, The Milky Way Galaxy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 353-9712
by counteracting the ink spread which Sherman, N Woodtyper Pl, Pizza Rules! Prefecture, Speciminism, USA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 617–5223
plagues small text printed at high Stocks, E Curly HQ, 108c Stokes Croft, Bristol, UK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 832–2337
speeds on low-quality paper.” Tan, J Set in 6-point at Mild Bunch HQ, 108c Stokes Croft, Bristol, UK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 832–2337
“ Unnamed font Wood type
This font of wood type was hand-cut, circa 1826, by Darius
Wells — one of the more significant figures in wood type history. The
font has narrowly survived two fires and is among the oldest existing
fonts of American wood type. While the typeface design is interesting
on its own, these particular blocks fascinates me the most as physical
and historical objects. The font is now housed at the Hamilton Wood
Type & Printing Museum.

Italian Wood type


This wonky slab serif, first shown by Caslon & Catherwood in 1821, has
been referred to as a ‘typographic monstrosity’, among other things.
Indeed, the reversal of thick and thin strokes does result in some
unusual forms. I’m not sure exactly what it is, but something about
the ridiculousness and originality of this face has earned a soft
spot in my heart.

Georgia and/or Verdana


“ Until relatively recent technological advances, these two have been among the only typefaces that could
be reliably used on websites. As such, they have become some of the most ubiquitous typefaces in the
world. Both designed by Matthew Carter, they were decades ahead of their time as far as being designed
and engineered from the ground up specifically for readability on the computer screen. They will act as a
model for other such fonts which will become more and more prevalent in the years to come.”

Find and buy these typefaces at 8faces.com/2/fonts


Rich
Rutter 12345678

When most of us were being weened You’ve been working on applying Robert Bringhurst’s
work to web typography for some time now with your
off table-based website layouts, he was website ‘The Elements of Typographic Style Applied to
busy applying Bringhurst’s seminal the Web’. How is the project going?

work ‘The Elements of Typographic It’s been dormant for a couple of years and not much
Style’ to the world of web design, and has happened to it, due to time constraints and having
so many other things to do. I’m trying to get more
he’s still at it. As one of the founders of people to try and help out with some of it, and I’ve
accessibility-focused agency Clearleft, got a new sense of vigour about it because there are
so many good things happening with css: things are
and more recently the co-founder of moving on so quickly and right now we’re on the crest
font delivery service Fontdeck, Rich of a wave. I really want to start going back through the
whole guide and updating it, because in some places
Rutter is one of the most respected it refers to some modules which have since been
authorities on web type... merged or re-named in the spec. In the fonts module
in particular, there’s a lot of new stuff appearing which
needs to be talked about. So it will soon be redesigned
slightly and tweaked.

What developments would you like to see happen in


the near future?

The main thing for me is simply for proper OpenType


clagnut.com features, which is massively important for non-Latin

PAG E 46 INTERVIEW RICH RUTTER


fonts. But even just thinking about
Latin ones — just having an ‘ff’ or
an ‘ffi’ ligature when it’s required
in the headline hasn’t been so
much of a problem in the past
because Georgia and its ilk have
been designed in such a way that
they don’t need ligatures. But
when you start using font linking,
a lot of the fonts need ligatures to
stop the clashes happening, and so
ligatures need to be enabled.

The latest version of Firefox has


kerning, which is quite important
for type set at bigger sizes.
Kerning and common ligatures
are turned on by default on Macs,
and they are turned on by default
on Windows when the type is
over 20 pixels. In Safari they’re can’t read it; it doesn’t make any Have you contacted foundries and
turned off by default, but you sense. We’ve got some support people like yourselves to try and
can turn both those on with the for Greek and Cyrillic. Greek, in form a library of typefaces, so that
optimize:legibility property. some ways, is a rare language: you can support some of the lesser-
it’s only written in one country, known languages?
What can you tell us about and among academics, but of
Fontdeck’s noble support for rare course there are quite a number of Yes, but we haven’t been hugely
languages? Jon Tan mentioned this designs out there. We are hosting proactive recently because we’re
last issue and it sounds great. one of the Cyrillic ones for pt Sans, building up our library of Latin
which is one of my chosen ‘eight fonts, but we have managed to
That’s still the goal: to be able to faces’ because I think it’s such an host pt Sans. I met a designer in
provide support for languages astonishing achievement. When Armenia who has a foundry called
that don’t have many typefaces. you consider Japanese and Chinese Pomegranate, which just does
It also depends on the foundry: languages, OpenType features are Armenian stuff, and we should
if they give it away for free, we needed in order to swap things in have some of those soon. However,
host it for free. With some scripts, and out. As a long-term goal, we’re some stuff that we want to do in
ligatures are essential: if the committed to looking to do other the future with connected scripts is
ligatures aren’t working then you scripts, too. very difficult to do; until browsers

PAG E 48 INTERVIEW RICH RUTTER


offer more support for this, it’s need to protect your ip; but how control over that. Web services
almost not worth touching. In much of your text consumption are becoming more and more
particular, Japanese and Chinese is done on screen, and how prevalent for lots of different
languages have huge character much is done in print? It’s got to things. You’d never think of
sets — 6000 glyphs as opposed to be a significant proportion and hosting your own maps, for
300 for a fairly basic Latin script —  it’s the same for most people. If example, and I think the same
so these are also problematic. you’re designing text, surely you analogy applies to fonts, and
want people to read it! If you’re may apply to more things in the
What have you learned since eliminating, say, 40% of their future. It applies to jQuery as a lot
launching Fontdeck?

There have been hard lessons


for sure. This applies to anyone

You’d never think of hosting


staring up a dot com, but it’s
especially true if it has been set up

your own maps, for example,


as a side project, as was the case
with Fontdeck. You have to get

and I think the same analogy


the legal and financial side sorted
out as soon as you can, while you

applies to fonts, and may apply


are building the app. The whole
thing has been a really interesting

to more things in the future.


experience, as has getting
involved in the type industry. It’s
a close-knit community, similar
to the web design industry. The
majority of the foundries are either
actively or already selling web
fonts in one way or another, either
by themselves, through a third reading time, then that doesn’t
party, or both; or they’re seriously quite make sense to me.
considering it. Unfortunately, there
are still a group who are holding Do you see a growing interest
out and believe that the likes of in font delivery services or do
Fontdeck are the type agents of designers still want to host the
piracy. They are in the minority fonts themselves?
but sadly they are very vocal. That
attitude has got to change. In some Some people like to host their
ways, I can understand how you own stuff and they like having

INTERVIEW RICH RUTTER


of people link off to Google’s code For the kind of work that Clearleft no coincidence that our front-
distribution for this, and for jQuery does, that’s probably true. end developers at Clearleft are
there are a lot of advantages to Information design or application typographic enthusiasts as well.
that. There’s a model there that design primarily revolves around There’s a line of communication
isn’t just about fonts, and spans words, so the layout and the size that needs to be open, and it
across a number of things. is really important to hierarchy extends to wider projects. But it
doesn’t necessarily mean that at
the end of the day you’re going to
get nice curly quotes out of a cms,
unless you happen to have the

There’s a line of communica- luxury of typesetting an individual


page, which — let’s face it —very

tion that needs to be open, and rarely happens. What about


orphans and widows? Somehow

it extends to wider projects. you need a non-breaking space


inserted. Someone somewhere

But it doesn’t necessarily has got to specify that, and


someone somewhere else has

mean that at the end of the day got to make sure that it always
happens and that it can happen

you’re going to get nice curly programmatically. There are a lot


of different ways of approaching

quotes out of a cms. it, but it’s a challenge. It’s one of


those things that’s just down to
attention to detail, which is what
typography is all about: all of these
tiny details that build up to form a
bigger picture.

Clearleft’s focus is on usability. on a page. Many organisations


What role does typography play have visual designers in house
in making a website usable? Have and front-end developers, so
there been core principles that there’s a communication point
have come up time and time again? there where the designers specify
type sizes, measure, line heights,
It’s an intrinsic part of good design. and margins; that all needs to be
Information Architects recently said communicated to the person who
that 95% of design is typography. is actually writing the css. It’s

PAG E 50 INTERVIEW RICH RUTTER


people that what he’s saying can the very basics of typography;
be achieved on the web, especially something we’ve felt challenged
when you consider it was started by, because of the fairly limited
in 2004 when css support was a technology we’ve been using up
lot worse than it is now. It’s still the until recently.
case of these guidelines that he’s
setting down; if you were to follow I believe that browser defaults
them, you can achieve it. There are are the enemy of considered
a lot of steps in this. Let’s say you typography, by which I mean
have been taught these guidelines browsers set margins and they
and maybe spent a few years in set line heights themselves,
print design and are branching out which isn’t wrong, but they’re not
into doing web design; you may considered; they don’t necessarily
be a good print designer but not work as well as they could do. This
necessarily willing to carry some of is why I think css resets are a very
those things you learnt over to web good idea: if you get rid of all those
design because you think it’s too margins and line heights and all
hard, or you think it’s not worth line heights are set solid, then
it because it’s only a screen. I get you’ve got to go back and change
Besides these things, what would the impression that some of that those; if you go back and change
you say are the main obstacles attitude actually does exist and is them, that means you have to think
the web design community has probably quite prevalent. about what you’re changing them
to overcome to understand and to as opposed to using what comes
implement the key typographic It seems that one of the challenges out of the box. That’s extremely
principles espoused by Bringhurst? is really just getting to grips with important. 8
I think it’s probably not unfair
to say that there are a relatively
small fraction of professional web

I believe that browser


designers out there who have
actually been taught design. I

defaults are the enemy


wasn’t taught design by anyone
other than those people who had

of considered typography.
written the books and the blogs
that I read. I taught myself about
typography just out of a rampant
interest in it. The Bringhurst
project was more a case of showing

INTERVIEW RICH RUTTER PA G E 51


Feijoa & Aivy Es la verdad.
“Feijoa is simply lovely. Kris Sowersby designed the face so
that ‘a straight line is a dead line’ and that’s what must give
its femine, handwritten feel. I could look at it all day, but then
what about the gorgeous italic and the fabulous ampersands?”

Adelle loved Xen tiene siete años!

№7
“I love slab serifs. This is one of the best of the modern
crop, and surprisingly versatile. The heavy weight is
big, fat and chunky, great for display work requiring an
impact. The lighter weights are more subtle, particularly at
smaller sizes, and can happily be used for continuous text.”

“Bodoni

f
can be something of a cliche, but I really enjoy it at display sizes.
It can say romantic, classy, European, Italian. I particularly love


it in a black weight – Robert Hunter Middleton’s Bodoni Black
is particularly extravagant (love that ‘f’!).
PT Sans ПараТайп
“I was introduced to this at Typecon 2010. Commissioned by the Russian Federation to cater for its
78 written languages, it’s a magnificent achievement and comes in eight styles. Essentially it’s a fully
hinted, humanist sans screen font which I hope will replace the usual candidates – it is free after all.”

Baskerville 1757
“Baskerville is such a classic face, it would be hard to leave out.
My brother, a super-talented graphic designer, chose this version
when designing the stationery for our wedding. There’s an
authenticity to it which is both charming and solid.”

momentus &
BLISS
“When choosing 8 typefaces, a sans-
serif family is surely required. Bliss
is a very British sans with humanist
forms of Gill Sans, but without the
awkward idiosyncrasies. It’s neutral
enough to fit most purposes, but with a
lively character twinkling through.”

Plantin*1913 “ I’ve liked Plantin for a long time. It’s classy, but actually quite utilitarian
with its large x-height and relatively low contrast; consequently it works
rather well on screen. Famously used in Monocle, I’ve also seen it used
creatively on Underworld’s 12” vinyl artwork.”

Oh, and Georgia


(We love you!)

Find and buy these typefaces at 8faces.com/2/fonts


Veronika Burian
& José Scaglione 12345678

In our debut issue, we combined You work as a duo yet you’re thousands of miles
apart — how does that work on a day to day basis?
our seventh and eighth ‘faces’ and
interviewed type design duo Post [Veronika] We talk every day on Skype and through
email. Without the Internet our relationship wouldn’t
Typography. This time around we be possible. It doesn’t really matter where either
continue the tradition and speak of us are, as long as we can be online and the time
difference isn’t too different, then it’s fine. We can
to former University of Reading talk about things that need to be dealt with. It’s nice
classmates Veronika Burian and to meet each other once or twice a year, and that’s
basically the maximum time we get to see each other.
José Scaglione, collectively When we started, for the first year or two, we didn’t see
known as TypeTogether... each other at all.

So you didn’t start TypeTogether while you were both


studying at Reading University?

[Veronika] No, we started it in 2006. José was in


Reading one year after me. Right after graduation I
started with Dalton Maag in London.

[José] It was an idea we had been playing around


with and discussing whenever we actually saw each
other. I think we always knew we would end up doing
type-together.com something together.

PAG E 54 INTERVIEW VERONIKA BURIAN


& JOSÉ SCAGLIONE
[Right] Adelle in South
African newspaper ‘City
Press’, redesigned
by Peter Ong

How does it work? How do you things that way. Neither one of discuss them again in case we’re
decide who does what? us gets too stuck or focused on ready to start production on them.
something, because often when
[Veronika] It changes all the time. you look at things for a long time [Veronika] That tends to
If we decide to do a new typeface, you don’t notice mistakes, so it is happen quite often because we
we discuss it in great detail and helpful to get feedback right away. get sidetracked on other custom
decide on the general direction; projects, or admin. But designing
on what kind of typeface it’s going [José] In the first stages, we have typefaces is a lot of hard work.
to be; what type of application ‘letter a’, ‘letter a.alt’, ‘letter a.alt2’, On top of that you also have to
we aim for. In our case it’s mostly and then we look at it, test it, and promote yourself.
editorial design. discuss it over and over. Another
interesting thing about the way [José] Veronica and I also like to
[José] We like starting with just a we work together is that most of do academic speeches at colleges
few characters, sending them back our designs spend at least six to or visit classrooms and discuss
and forth to discuss details. The eight months in a drawer. At many design. We give workshops and
one rule that we have is that if I points in time we have designs lectures, sometimes on our own
design a basic shape, it’s then up that we have started. Right now we and sometimes together. These
to Veronica to fix it or edit it, and have four or five typefaces that are things are time-consuming.
vice versa. in the early stages of development.
We like to let them rest and then Do you feel that your collective
[Veronika] It’s really handy doing revisit them a few months later to style is a coming together of

PAG E 56 INTERVIEW VERONIKA BURIAN


& JOSÉ SCAGLIONE
Eastern European and South
American styles?

[José] That’s a tough one. Let me The one rule that we have is
that if I design a basic shape,
be honest: I don’t really like talking
in terms of styles. I like to think

it’s then up to Veronica to fix


that we’re focused on a particular
kind of typography, specifically

it or edit it, and vice versa.


for editorial use. I’m not sure that
we have a fixed style in the sense
of the way our stuff looks. I don’t
think someone will see one of our
typefaces and say, ‘Oh, that’s a
Scaglione and Burian.’

[Veronika] I think that’s foundry with two fonts. Since it What are lessons have you learned
something for other people to takes a long time to develop a new from running TypeTogether?
decide. Of course we have our typeface, we began asking a few
preferences; we have shapes we people if they would like to publish
like that are really attractive to with us. In some cases it was very
us that we use elsewhere. But I fast, and in others, we still haven’t
agree: I don’t think that we have released them! It’s not that they
templates of shapes of letters that send us their files and that’s it, we
we always use. We try to find new actually work very closely with
solutions and try not to repeat them. We give the designers a lot
ourselves. of feedback and suggestions and
do post-production. In some cases
These days you publish typefaces it took quite a few years to develop
from other designers as well as and fine-tune the typeface because
your own. How do you decide most of the designers don’t
if a typeface is suitable for the dedicate every minute of the day
TypeTogether brand? to it. They have other projects and
clients to attend to. But in terms of
[Veronika] At the beginning it how we choose, we have a library
was very much our friends from that has a certain focus, and we
Reading. We only had a couple try to stay within that and always
of fonts in our repertoire, and consider high quality as a factor,
you can’t necessarily run a type be that aesthetically or technically.

[Above] Athelas in ‘Tradiciones Argentinas’,


a letterpress book by The Society of
Argentinian Bibliophiles

INTERVIEW VERONIKA BURIAN PA G E 57


& JOSÉ SCAGLIONE
independence. A small foundry well-known type design courses in
has a very clear focus; a very clear the world. Did you guys enrol after
aesthetic. This is very good for working in the design industry
designers looking for typefaces for several years?
to use. Of course we hope in the
future that we’ll be much better [José] For me it was very hard.
known. We have a lot of potential I had to attend Reading while
clients who need typefaces. working part-time, and also it was
a big investment. I didn’t know if I
[Veronika] For me personally, would get any return from it.
the independence factor is very
valuable. I love to be independent. [Veronika] That’s very true.
Working for someone else in the In my case, I needed the break
creative field is very difficult. It from being in Milan as a product
isn’t as gratifying as when you designer. Taking that year
build or create something for off was absolutely fantastic.
yourself. You have much more Groundbreaking. Life-changing,
freedom. Of course, you have many if you will. It was a very good
more risks to take, but I wouldn’t investment for me.
change anything.
Do you think it has influenced
Do you guys still do non-type where you are now?
design work for clients?
[Both] Definitely. Absolutely.
[José] I do a bit of editorial
design. I work on bits and pieces And they also run a one-week,
for newspapers and magazines, condensed course, too — one that
although not as much lately. The gives you a taste of the Masters?
type design part is taking over.

[Veronika] No, I don’t. I’m not


a graphic designer, so I don’t
[Above] Ronnia in [José] For us, I think it was a come from that area. I’m a type
‘Women of Design’ by process of learning the business, designer. Type design and running
Bryony Gomez-Palacio
and Armin Vit which has some very nice bits TypeTogether is more than enough!
and some not so nice. Legal
[Right] Bree in
‘I love her’ poster by stuff is never fun, and neither is We’ve spoken a lot about Reading
Marina Chaccur admin, but it gives us a sense of and it’s certainly one of the most

PAG E 58 INTERVIEW VERONIKA BURIAN


& JOSÉ SCAGLIONE
[Veronika] From our experience together every year to discuss the
with week-long workshops, it’s field and to continue supporting

A lot of veteran
great. They pack a lot into that one another. The problem with
week. If someone really has some these meetings is that you can

designers in
passion for type design, it’s a great quite often get involved in
thing to do. ventures like this that distract you,

editorial and
but it’s fine: I think what we are
[José] I think it’s a very good crash building here is really positive. The

book design have


course. It’s a lot of information letter.2 competition is the second
in a very small amount of time, type design competition, held

never drawn a
and then you get to go home and exactly ten years after the first. The
process it for as long as you want. idea is to have a snapshot of the

letter; and once


current state of excellence in type
[Veronika] Even if one doesn’t design, and it will be the biggest

they start to draw


start to do full-on typefaces, I still competition out there because it
think these workshops play a good covers a ten year span. The idea is

a letter, they
part in a designer’s development, not to have a winner, but to select
because it’s an enrichment of your 100 works that represent the state

realise, ‘This is
knowledge. I’ve noticed a lot of of that excellence. We expect to
veteran designers in editorial and have a lot of submissions with a

actually really
book design have never drawn lot of great designs and we have a
a letter; and once they start to great jury as well.

tough work!’
draw a letter, they realise, ‘This is
actually really tough work!’ They [Veronika] It would be nice if we
discover another level of design could do a book like we did last
that can be appreciated, and that time, but at the very least we’re
then can enrich their own work. going to have this conference.
They will then be better able to
choose typefaces and how to [José] I’m sure we’ll have some
look at them. opportunities to get this out
there. The idea is to show how
What can you tell us about the things have developed, which
letter.2 competition? 1 will eventually give us a timeline
of type. Ten years from now we’ll
[José] In 2001 there was the first have another competition with to
type design competition run by see how things are moving. I think
ATypI. Veronika and I both feel it’s letter.2 will be incredibly important
important for type designers to get to the type design industry. 8

1. See page 85 [Above] Bree and Karmina in ‘DN Divadelní


Noviny’, redesigned by Studio Designiq

INTERVIEW VERONIKA BURIAN PA G E 59


& JOSÉ SCAGLIONE
Breetogether
“Bree has its origins in our logotype.

serifs of the 19th century. However, early in


the design process, we decided to move away
from the mechanical feel and adapt Adelle
to a more humanist model. It was conceived
specifically for intensive editorial use, mainly
in newspapers and magazines, but its person-
ality and flexibility make it a real multiple-
purpose typeface. As it becomes larger in
print, Adelle shows its personality through a
series of measured particularities that make
it easy to remember and identify.”

Abrildisplay&text

It is a sleek sans serif that delivers a polished and modern look and feel for branding or
headline usage. Bree is quite unusual in being a spirited and rhythmic upright italic. It
successfully merges elements from handwriting with contemporary typography.”

ADELLE
“Adelle is a slab serif, inspired by classic slab

“Abril is our latest project and is still a work-in-progress.


KARMINA
“Karmina is our first collaborative project, which
resulted in a fresh and contemporary work-horse
typeface. It was built to withstand the worst
printing conditions: low quality papers, high
printing speed with web presses and variations
in the ink level of the printing press. Karmina’s
features, such as the rather large serifs, intended
to work perfectly in small reproduction sizes,
the sharpness of the shapes, including some
calligraphic reminiscences, the large and yet
graceful and narrow proportions, grant Karmina
outstanding legibility and economy.”

It is a font family engineered mainly for newspapers and magazines


that features friendly and elegant styles for headlines and robust and economic
styles for text. Abril Text is inspired by Scotch Romans, sturdy work-horses from the
19th century, while Abril Display has more influences from French Didot-styled typefaces.”
¶ National
$₨€₪₢₤

FenwayDelight
“Trade Gothic was one of first
typefaces I worked with and I
still like it. It is clean, simple
and somewhat independent, but
at the same time it feels a bit
quirky and very warm, friendly.”

Fedra

Serif
• ••
B & A
“We paid close attention to National when looking for an accompanying sans
serif for our Adelle. Definitely an impressive piece of design by Kris Sowersby.”

TRADE GOTHIC
“Matthew Carter’s
Fenway is simply beautiful.”

by Jackson Burke from 1948–1960

“Peter Biľak’s Fedra Serif is a beautifully crafted typeface. A very nice


contemporary example of technical quality and careful design.”

Find and buy these typefaces at 8faces.com/2/fonts


Artwork
by Jez Burrows

Every issue we’re asking one of our favourite


artists and fellow type fans to create a piece
of type-inspired art. This issue we called on
Jez Burrows and he produced the wonderful
illustration you see on your right, as well as
our cover art.

Jez says of the quote: ‘I can’t help but feel


enormously buoyed by that quote every time I read
it. It suggests this unstoppable, almost romantic air
of productivity, and my artwork is just an attempt to
show it visually.’

Jez has kindly made the artwork available as


desktop backgrounds for your computer, iPhone,
and iPad. Visit 8faces.com / 2 / wallpapers for
the downloads.

If you’d like to contribute artwork to a future issue


of 8 Faces, please email editor@8faces.com.

PAG E 62 ARTWORK
JEZ BURROWS
P is for
Paper
Last issue, we ran a
competition to win a
limited edition print
by Jessica Hische.

The challenge? To design a drop


cap. The winner? The very talented
Ayaka Ito, who hand-made this
wonderful ‘P’ from paper. Thanks
to everyone who entered and
congratulations to Ayaka!

PAG E 64 CO M P E T I T I O N W I N N E R
AYA K A OTO
=
Feature

What’s the best way to Feature it in a book would have been so arduous a
journey. Given the enormous
present the versatile written on the subject of amount of time, effort, patience
and edgy Fakir, a voluntary suffering and and perseverance taken to create
the typeface, it seemed only fitting
typeface that took five printed in the blood of to feature this design in more
years to arrive at the the author, of course! than simply a display catalogue.
What was required was something
finished product from When European design collective that would be worthy of all the
the first sketches? Underware created the blackletter hard work and suffering taken
Fakir, they may not have to create Fakir. Arriving at an
anticipated that the process of appropriate solution took more

AFGGGGGGGG
bringing this typeface to fruition time: another year, in fact. But a

To have something powerful,


simple, and readable was more...

PAG E 66 F E AT U R E FA K I R
solution was finally concluded for this subject, Underware’s approximately two to three months
and the decision was made to attention soon came to Ruud was agreed. However, six months
create a publication focusing on Linssen; the Catholic Dutch author, later, no story had materialised.
the subject of voluntary suffering, poet and journalist. ‘If there’s Ruud had in fact become heavily
which seemed entirely appropriate anyone who really knows what involved in writing an extensive
for all the time and effort that suffering truly means, it’s him.’ says book on the subject, and instead
went into its creation. For a Gothic Sami Kortemäki of Underware. of two months, The Book of war,
typeface such as Fakir, the theme mortification, and love took two
was certainly fitting: harking back Ruud immediately took to the years to complete. The author
to medieval times when the Gothic idea, and the decision was soon ascertained that he had rewritten
style of type first originated in the agreed for him to write a short every sentence of the book at least
days suffering was a daily theme. story on voluntary suffering,

GGGGGGGGGHD
In order to find suitable material and a deadline of completion in

...important than following the


style of historical blackletters.

F E AT U R E FA K I R PA G E 67
five times, and that the book had seemed to be to freeze-dry the
‘changed his life’, giving him an blood; this was found to be the
entirely new perspective on the best way to remove all water from
subject owing to his extensive the human blood. The substance
thought and research on the left after the lyophilising process is
matter. ‘Suffering,’ he described, a powder of pure blood. Once the
‘has already been a major theme powder was created, it was then
in my life for many years. But not relatively easy to turn the powder
voluntary suffering.’ The creation into an oil-based offset ink.
of the book therefore became an
example of voluntary suffering in Fakir is the namesake of the
itself. One could say that it is the Hindu religious mendicant: one
essence of Linssen’s voluntary who performs feats of endurance.
suffering. In light of this, and in The vision behind the creation of
true Gothic style, the decision was this blackletter was to design one
made to print the book with the more suited to modern times: for
blood of the author. was found, but the team saw the readers not used to the traditional,
positive side of it, ‘Let’s see it elaborately decorative blackletters.
The simple (and somewhat this way; production failures are ‘We didn’t go to the library to study
macabre) idea soon turned into appropriate for a project about old blackletters; instead we started
a complicated issue of how voluntary suffering.’ said Sami. with a clean slate.’ described Sami,
printing an entire book in human After tapping Ruud’s blood, the ‘To have something powerful,
blood could turn into a practical next stage of the process at first simple, and readable was more
solution. This was no easy feat, appeared to be nearly impossible: important than following the
and a number of trial and error to turn blood, which is water- style or construction of historical
situations ensued before a solution based, into offset ink, which is blackletters.’ Prior to any initial
oil based. After talking to dozens sketches, the decision was made
of ink experts, chemists and to design the typeface to be strong

AFGGGGGGGG
physicians, the best solution and black with nail-sharp forms

Our Fakir fonts are very graphical;


they form strong word images...

PAG E 68 F E AT U R E FA K I R
without a strict grid. It was proving that a blackletter family ability for a blackletter face.’
vaguely constructed on broad can be practical and versatile. The journey from Fakir’s initial
nib textura, with broken, edgy, Fakir’s family of eleven text and conception, to printing an entire
interrupted strokes. ‘Try to sit display fonts is just that, covering book in blood to showcase the
on a nail bed and you’ll know why a range of identities from the typeface, tested the patience and
fakirs like to read just these kind fragile and poetic Fakir Italic, to tenacity of the team, and was by
of fonts!’ explains Sami. the aggressive graffiti style of Fakir no means an easy feat; but therein
Display Black Small Caps. Sami lies a poetic beauty that ties in
A fundamental concept for explains: ‘Our Fakir fonts are very completely with the subject of the
Underware was to have a number graphical; they form very compact book: voluntary suffering.8
of blackletter fonts that work very and strong word images, but they
well together and could be used to also have an ability to stay readable

GGGGGGGGGHD
set all levels of type in a magazine, and legible. We think that’s a rare

...but they also have an ability to


stay readable and legible.

F E AT U R E FA K I R PA G E 69
Feature

Microsoft is not a name The new mobile os has a ui that ‘A lot of ui you see these days is
is distinctively type-heavy. In about making things pretty by
that many associate a dramatic departure from the adding decoration. I wanted it to
with groundbreaking icon-heavy visual style of iOS and look beautiful once you stripped out
Android, wp7 is very clearly an the decoration; something pure.’
design, but the stigma attempt to get back to basics; to
is undeserved: they’ve employ solid design principles The ui’s design and interaction
instead of elaborate graphics to guide — which Microsoft kindly
done much for the deliver a fulfilling but ultimately let us have a peak at — references
world of type, from very simple user experience. way-finding as a key inspiration
and it’s clear that this simple,
commissioning modern We spoke to Jeff Fong (Design no-nonsense approach permeates
classics such as Matthew Lead for wp7) and Simon Daniels the entire experience. ‘It’s about
(Lead Program Manager for Fonts, having something glanceable,’
Carter’s Georgia, to Windows Core Experience) about says Jeff. ‘Iconography is of course
paving a new path for the phone and how importantly
type played a role in its realisation.
type rendering with the Jeff had previously worked on the
DirectWrite engine. Their Zune ui and done a lot of work on
bringing content to the forefront.
latest achievement is He says that the phone was about
Windows Phone 7. formalising these principles:

PAG E 70 F E AT U R E WINDOWS PHONE 7


With type playing such an
important role in the new os, we
asked Simon which typefaces were
used. ‘There are six weights of the
Segoe wp family, which is based on
Zegoe, used on the Zune interface,’
he explains. ‘However, Segoe
wp was developed specifically
for the phone and there’s a new
set of numerals.’ Interestingly,
there are no italics used in
the ui at all. Simon cites the
difficulty working with multiple
languages: ‘Arabic or Asian italics
were particularly problematic!’
One of the weights — originally
[Above] The panorama part of that, as well, but when we developed for the Zune hd but used
view that lies at the designed our icons, our goal was to much more extensively on wp7
heart of wp7’s core
visual experience extend the work already being done is the interestingly-named Segoe
by the type.’ Semilight: ‘We had a Light and a
Regular,’ explains Simon, ‘and we
One of the things that immediately liked the elegance of the Light, but it
struck the 8 Faces team was the was a little too light when rendered
panorama view, where large on digital displays, so we needed
headings often disappear off the something in between.’
screen to the right, and further
content is hinted at, rather When asked what he feels wp7
than resorting to the regular brings to the world of mobile-
forward / back arrow metaphor. It’s focused design, Simon points out
fresh and daring approach. ‘A lot of the simplicity, ‘which is so hard
people were uncomfortable with it to get right.’ We agree: having
at first,’ says Jeff. ‘We wanted things such a type-focused ui means
on screen to have a different sense the design has to be extremely
of scale. It’s a fun, unique design well considered. Jeff says that his
element to play with, and all part of hope is that, ‘it will have a positive
simplifying the process to make it impact on how people think about
feel like one large expansive space interfaces at Microsoft... and in
instead of tiny windows.’ the world at large.’ 8

F E AT U R E WINDOWS PHONE 7
A Brief
History of
Feature

Type
Uncials and half-uncials Today, graphic designers often continue to be used for a variety
use the term ‘uncial’ to describe of cultural applications, display
were developed in Irish letter styles, although this is purposes, logos, and signage;
the Roman Empire. not particularly accurate. In early especially in Ireland.
medieval Europe, many books
Originally used for Latin produced in Ireland, Britain, or If uncial typefaces from the
or Greek texts, these Irish monasteries on the continent, primary vendors of digital fonts
used insular scripts influenced by are searched for, it’s difficult to
scripts were also used earlier forms of Roman writing. classify the results as being clearly
by scribes writing in After the reign of Charlemagne in uncial, half-uncial, insular, or any
Europe, the Carolingian minuscule other specific style.
Germanic and Gaelic became the predominate style of
languages. Since uncials letter in most countries where the Libra and Simplex are a pair of
Roman alphabet was used. Insular related display typefaces from
have never really scripts made the transition to the Lettergieterij “Amsterdam”,
disappeared from the typography when books printed also known as The Amsterdam
in the Irish language began Typefoundry, or simply Tetterode.
western vocabulary of appearing in the sixteenth century. Sjoerd H. De Roos designed Libra,
letters, they’ve been used Although the printing of books a unicase alphabet made up of
in Gaelic typefaces fell out of broad nib pen-based forms, in
for multiple modern common practice in Ireland during 1937. Simplex is its sans serif
languages, too. the twentieth century, these forms counterpart, developed by De Roos

PAG E 72 F E AT U R E A B R I E F H I S TO R Y
OF UNCIAL TYPE
[Above] Libra [Above] Rieven

together with Dick Dooijes in 1940. character is stylistic, rather designer Victor Hammer seems
Both men were giants of 20th than historic or linguistic. Libra to have had different motivations
century Dutch type design, and and Simplex are not literal from De Roos and Dooijes.
these uncial typefaces function as revivals of any specific book Hammer worked with uncial
footnotes in their bodies of work. hands. Dutch printers were the letterforms throughout his long
Still, Libra and Simplex offer an primary market for the types, career. Before emigrating from
interesting vantage point into how although the typefaces were Vienna to the United States in
uncial typefaces were viewed in also distributed abroad. New 1939, he had travelled widely,
the mid-twentieth century. display typefaces should appear spending almost a decade in
unique — presumably, this helps Florence. His work — which
Although De Roos hoped that Libra their sales — as printers would be included many books — was in
would be used as a book face, more likely to consider them if several languages. Hammer felt
Tetterode marketed it and Simplex they appear different from other that texts written in Latin had
as display faces. Both designs are designs of the same foundry, or a different appearance than in
unicameral, rather than including Tetterode’s competitors. Very few modern English, French, German,
the standard upper and lowercase. uncial typefaces were available or Italian. Latin words have a
This feature ties Libra and Simplex in 1937. Printers who purchased lower frequency of ascenders or
into the many lowercase writing these types could rest assured that descenders, for instance. Inspired
experiments going on in European the design would create a unique by Irish scribal writing, like the
design at the time. text image on the page. style of letters seen in the Book of
Kells (which is written in Latin),
The typefaces’ use of the uncial The Austrian-born artist and Hammer developed his own

F E AT U R E A B R I E F H I S TO R Y PA G E 73
OF UNCIAL TYPE
[Left] Simplex

uncial style handwriting, which he had no uppercase / lowercase Despite the ubiquity of poor
translated into several typefaces differentiation, Hammer’s concept American Uncial digitisation, a
from the 1920s to the 1950s. for uppercase letters featured version of Neue Hammer Unziale is
serifless roman capitals, rather available from Adobe and Linotype.
In 1943, the Dearborn Type than the enlarged ‘lowercase’ Using this lends a more graceful
Foundry cast the first version of seen in some other uncial or appearance to text, and is even
his American Uncial typeface. The Gaelic typefaces. The design of the more faithful to Hammer’s
design did not enter distribution uppercase letters from American design intentions.
until 1954, when the Gebr. Uncial / Neue Hammer Unziale is
Klingspor foundry in Germany similar in appearance to those of Monotype’s Colmcille type family
published it. Klingspor changed Hermann Zapf’s Optima (1958). may be a better choice for Irish
the name to Neue Hammer Unziale. text rather than Libra, Simplex,
Today, the design is available in Klingspor distributed Neue or American Uncial. Designed
several digital versions, under Hammer Unziale with a set of large explicitly for book printing in
both names. initials. These stylised versions Ireland, its fonts include authentic
of the lowercase were really Gaelic letterforms, as well as the
Unlike Libra and Simplex — as well ornaments, rather than proper diacritics required by the Irish
as some of Victor Hammer’s earlier letters. Unfortunately, most digital language. Colm O’Lochlainn, a
typefaces — American Uncial / Neue versions of American Uncial today printer and typographer from
Hammer Uncial is a bicameral are made up of just these initials, Dublin, designed Colmcille’s
design. Since handwriting rather than the true upper and regular and italic during the
styles in the early Middle Ages lowercase letters from design. 1930s; Stanley Morison, Monotype

PAG E 74 F E AT U R E A B R I E F H I S TO R Y
OF UNCIAL TYPE
Corporation’s typographical uncial lowercase with capitals that
consultant, played a key role in are rather roman, Rieven Uncial’s
ushering the face’s development upper and lowercase letters are
along. In 1988, O’Lochlainn’s son more harmonised.
Dara added a design for a bold
weight. Today, Comcille is available Designed in 2008 by German
as an OpenType family, with designer Ludwig Übele, Walhalla
regular, italic, bold, and bold is a revival of Oldřich Menhart’s
italic variants. Česka Unciala, released by Státní
Tiskárna in 1948. Walhalla Sans
Each of the OpenType fonts is a sans serif version, conceived
include a number of extras. Beside of by Übele himself. This ‘serif’
the standard character set, users and sans serif pairing is more
may switch on Irish versions of continental than Irish, but Übele
A, G, d, f, g, r, s, and t. Alternate includes the acute and dot accents
designs for A, E, G, T, g, and t are necessary to set Irish-language text
also included. 40 ornaments are (although, the typefaces may need
also inside the fonts. These glyphs Gaelic alternates of some letters
are mostly of the traditional Irish before traditional typesetters could
knot pattern variety, and may be deem it appropriate).
used together to construct borders.
As was the case with Hammer and
The development of uncial Skaggs, Menhart spent many years
typefaces continues into the 21st developing his Česka Unciala. All
century: digital font-making tools three designers hoped to create
make designs easier than ever to new uncial faces that would be
bring to fruition. The most recent worthy interpretations of old
uncial to receive critical acclaim is book hands, in contemporary
Rieven Uncial, designed by Steven typographic form. Walhalla
Skaggs for Delve Fonts, which Sans reminds us of Simplex, but
received a Certificate of Excellence also somewhat of Colmcille’s
in Type Design from the Type italic. Where Colm O’Lochlainn
Directors Club in their tdc² 2010 expanded on his upright face to
competition. Skaggs, influenced create the first-ever finished Irish
by Hammer’s example, set out to italic, Übele’s Walhalla Sans shows
create an uncial face appropriate a thorough investigation and
for book text. Unlike American understanding of the
Uncial, however, which pairs an uncial letterform. 8

[Left] Walhalla You can find Dan’s complete bibliography for


this article at 8faces.com / 2 / uncial

F E AT U R E A B R I E F H I S TO R Y PA G E 75
OF UNCIAL TYPE
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Credits
Editorial Artwork & Design Photography
Written & edited Designed by Elliot Jay Stocks Elliot portrait by Chris Casciano.
by Elliot Jay Stocks elliotjaystocks.com Ale portrait by Daniel Bericua.
elliotjaystocks.com Stephen portrait by Michael
Typeface choices spreads Kressner. Tim portrait by Ryan
Copy edited by Samantha Cliffe designed by Jon Tan Carver. Rich portrait by Jack
samanthacliffe.com jontangerine.com Barnes. Jez portrait by Lizzy
Stewart. Fakir photographs by
Pages 4 & 5 written Cover artwork & illustration Underware. ‘P is for Paper’
by Aegir Hallmundur on page 63 by Jez Burrows photos by Ayaka Ito. Windows
ministryoftype.co.uk jezburrows.com Phone imagery used courtesy
of Microsoft Corporation.
Pages 72 – 75 written Illustration on pages 4 & 5
by Dan Reynolds by Annica Lydenberg
typeoff.de dirtybandits.com

Pages 64 – 67 written Uncial type examples typeset


by Samantha Cliffe by Dan Reynolds
samanthacliffe.com typeoff.de

Audio interviews transcribed Website designed & built


by Brian Beavers, John Griffiths, by Kyle Meyer
Karen Kuhn, Michael Oullette, kylemeyer.com
Allen Tan, Heather Van De Mark, & Dan Millar at Decode.uk
and Mai-Chi Vu decode.uk.com

Printed in England
by Prime Group
primegroup.co.uk

Set in FF Unit Slab


(and FF Unit for page footers)

PAG E 86 CREDITS
Thank you The small print This issue is dedicated
Our contributors: 8 Faces, volume 1, number 2.
to those who believed
Samantha, Aegir, Dan Reynolds, issn 2043-7692. Published in in us and rushed to get
Jon, Jez, Annica, Kyle, Dan Millar, November 2010 by Elliot Jay
and the photographers Stocks Design Ltd. © 2010 Elliot
a copy of issue one in
Jay Stocks Design Ltd. & the the first two hours of its
Our interviewees: contributors. All rights reserved.
Martin, Ale, Stephen, Tim, Nick, Contact: editor@8faces.com
release. Thank you for
Rich, Veronika, and José your support!
For errata, please see
Our partners: 8faces.com / 2 / errata ~ Elliot Jay Stocks, Editor
Ascender, Chank, Fontdeck,
FontFont, FontSmith, Jeremy
Tankard Typography, La
Fabrica, letter.2, Mark Simonson,
Parachute, Process, Typolar,
Typotheque, Underware,
and Webtype

Special thanks to
our extremely generous
‘Platinum’ and ‘Diamond’
partners: Linotype, MailChimp,
(mt) Media Temple, and Microsoft

Extra special thanks to Erik


Spiekermann, for guidance

CREDITS PA G E 87
This issue:
If you could use just eight
typefaces for the rest of your
life, which would you choose?

Martin Majoor,
8 Faces is a new magazine
for devotees of typography

Ale Paul,
that asks this question — and
many more — to eight leading

Stephen Coles,
designers from the fields of web
design,

Tim Brown,
print design, illustration, and
of course type design itself. Plus:

→ An introduction by Ministry of Nick Sherman,


Rich Rutter,
Type’s Aegir Hallmundur

Veronika Burian,
→ The story of Underware’s
contemporary blackletter Fakir

→ A look at the type-focused and José Scaglione


interface of Windows Phone 7

→ Dan Reynolds on uncial type

→ Exclusive artwork by Jez Burrows

issn 2043-7692 02

9 772043769008

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