1st October 2004, 09:18 AM

#15
definitions

Dave Pensado
Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

Before I add to the already excellent comments here, I have to admit that I don't know what mid bass is. Let's take a brief departure from BOYKELLY'S thread and try to define the audio spectrum. I will start, but these are just impressions of mine. Is there an AES standard or something else I missed? sub 0-60 bass 60-180 mid bass 180-300 lo mids 300-800 mids 800-2k upper mids 2-5k high end 5k up Like I said, I just kinda go ROUGHLY by this. Am I close? Then let's try to finish helping BK.

21st September 2004, 03:25 AM

#2
yep

Dave Pensado
Guest Moderator - September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

Shapemod, I still use the 330 alot. I like most of the presets that have a spread to them. The one I use the most is "LITTLE SPREAD". I also use the Edison alot as well as the DualFex II. I have an old Spatializer that Dexter Simmons gave me that I love, and I also use the Dytronics CycloPanner a lot. In

ProTools I use Qsound, Waves S1, and that pluggin from the Spanish company (their name escapes me, as I haven't used it in a year due to OSX upgrade. I use MaxxBass to make a lo sine wave type bass sound cut through on little speakers. MY settings are: freq=98 ratio=2.10:1 response=19.0 hipass=24 dB/OCT decay=-12 Hope this helps out, let me know.

#12

Dave Pensado
Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

Don't panic, it's me

If a law were passed that everyone on earth had to use identical speakers, our jobs would be so much easier. Most clubs here (US) add sub bass, say 80 down. That is an area that most home studios, and for that matter professional ones also, have problems monitoring. If you can't hear it accurately, about all you can do is watch the woofers and listen when they crap out. Compression is a book in itself. I personally don't think compression makes things "better". I look at compression as having two jobs. One, to increase the overall level, by managing the hot spots, and two, as an effect. I agree with most of what has been said. Let me add that sometimes the most important frequencies in a kik are 3-5K.

It helps your ear find it. Also be very detailed in the area from 180 to 120. I just realized that I have been typing for 15 minutes, and haven't said a DAMN thing. I am gonna come back to this issue, because it is one of the questions I get most often. I am currently writing a book for Waves on this subject, so discussing it here will help me organize my thots.

11th September 2004, 12:03 AM

#19

Pensado ramblings continued Dave Pensado Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122 OK, so this time let's focus on kik drums. Make sure you can hear the kik all the way down to 40hz. If you can't, get a synth and make up a sine wave based sample kik from about 80-40. EQ your original drum the best you can. Don't compress it, just pick a great sample. Now, take a piece of that drum (mult it, use a send etc. or if in PT make a time aligned copy) and compress the dog snot out of this "copy". A good starting point is fast attack fast Release, ration of 7-10. and knock off about 6-10dB. This will be your midrange knock, and the frequency that makes it sound loud. Add this back to the original sound. Now take another copy and compress 20-30 dB and roll out midrange, say 6002K. This sound should only be a "tick" and a thud. Add this back in. Add the sub (sample from synth), the knock, and the tick while in the mix, so you can really tell what's going on. If I need to explain this more, let me know. Fat loend is a lot of work. Next we will discuss bass.

20th September 2004, 12:17 AM

#5
good suggestions

Dave Pensado
Guest Moderator - September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

I would guess that the topend is not right. Check out one of the other posts to see how I do it, I can't remember which post, but it has to do with splitting the kik and using various compression. Remember if you want more bass out of a bass, just turn it up! It's BASS. if you want more lo end from a kik, turn the son-uva-bitch up. Psychoaccoustically, the ear needs some 800-1K, some 3-5k and some 10k to "find" the kik. Add these while in the mix. Don't be afraid to turn up the hi's in the chorus's. It gives the feeling that the drummer hit it harder. Let us know if this helps. Remember, like thethrillfaactor said, don't be against adding a sample that has the frequencies you are missing. Check out some of my Brian

Mcknight mixes, and tell me if any of those are close to what you are hearing, and I will send you some samples.

14th September 2004, 02:32 AM

#5 Hey man! Tell Colin I said hello... ...what a great singer! Yeah I do remember you. I am gonna answer this question in several segments over the next few days. Like I have said before, it took a lot of time and experimenting to come up with the skills I have, and I can't type as much as it would take to answer quesions like this. Check out some of my mag interviews and answers to some of the other threads, because I have partially answered this. I like to use a combination of samples and gear on drums. For kiks and snares I rarely use pluggins. I know you don't want to hear that, but the out board gear I use is actually not too expensive. Let's take kiks today. I tap off a piece of the original sound, and split it to 3 tracks. The original I EQ with the board (SSL). On the second tap I run it thru a 160XT, ratio 6:1, and knock off enough to get the mid attack or thud to come thru (don't use the Over-Easy in). Run this into an API 550A. Next, take any compresser that has variable attack and release and use kinda fast A/R. Crank the threshold down to knock off 25 or so dB. Run this into any EQ and focus on the attack. You mite have to add 20dB at 10K. Experiment. Now combine all three tracks plus your samples (usually 808 type subby sound, or mid thump sample, etc.) Pick your samples so they don't change the original sound, just make it better. Before you knock this technique try it. I do the same with vocals, snares, bass, guitars, and damn near everything. The beauty of this is that you preserve the dynamics and transients, but still have compression! So your apparent loudness, clarity, and punch are still improved better than if you compressed and EQ'd only the original sound. Can I stop typing now...thanks! More to come on this later....

Dave Pensado Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

13th August 2004, 06:18 AM Dave Pensado Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

#2 hand cleaned You may have heard my remix of the Brittney/Madonna tune. I don't use gates. Hiss reminds me of the ocean, and that is a wonderful thing. Experiment with the 1k-3,5k range. That is where the clarity and in-your-face is. Don't use reverb on the main elements. Think of reverb as a pan front-to-rear knob. Put you kik and snr loud, then turn them up another 4dB. Now

make your vocals sit on top of that. Select a few important elements of the track to hear, and screw the rest. REALLY. If you turn your mix up and it hurts your ears, then you are close. My HURT YOUR EARS, and I'm proud of it.

12th August 2004, 05:00 AM

#3 McKnight vocals Brian's engineer, C. Wood, is one of the best. I run Brian through McDsp E6, then into an old Gates Sta-Level compressor (tube similar to LA2A), out of that into an Avalon 2055. I try to do the carving with the E6 (the way it comes up, no preset), and broad gentle strokes with the 2055. I might add a bit of guts (600) with the console (SSL). If you can't find a Gates, then the Bomb Factory LA3 is pretty close. Sometimes I add a little too much on top, and de-ess with Waves unit. I rarely knock off more than 2-3 dB with a compressor, preferring instead to ride the fader. I split the signal to the console into 2 faders. One has the chain above, and the other fader is usually an 1176 (Ratio=4, A=fast, R=medium) and knock off about 8-10 db. I compensate for the duller sound with the 2055, or 1073, 560A, and on the thinner notes, I will add more of this fader. On the Breathy notes, I use more of the Gates fader. I just don't like the sound of compression on vocals, so I compress "manually" with the fader automation. At this point (about 3-4 hours), I usually pull out a clean razor blade, and attempt to cut my wrist......

Dave Pensado Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

13th August 2004, 06:23 AM Dave Pensado Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

#6 ....well I like to put efx on only a portion of the spectrum. I will take an exciter that is on the bacs, and add chorus to that. Or vocal doubler on the H3000. That way you are not chorusing the mud on the bottom. I will also put a harmonizer in front of the reverb, and put it up an octave, so my reverb is an octave higher than the vocal. I automate the Pluggins on the vocals, especially the EQ's to make each word pop out.

13th August 2004, 05:43 AM

#5

20-20K Dave Pensado Guest Moderator September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122 There are 52 cards in the deck, if I play poker, I want to use all of them. In music, I have got to hear from 10hz to 30khz! I just love finishing a mix, and cranking the piss out of my mains and feel my body vibrate. (Isn't that an Olivia Newton John song?) It gets tuff down there, because the octaves are only 20-50 cycles wide. Use plenty of tube and class A electronics to avoid phase shift, and the lo-end will be clear.

13th August 2004, 06:11 AM

#3
Yeah, Renie and CL

Dave Pensado
Guest Moderator - September 08 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: los angeles Posts: 122

I ALWAYS "augment" the drums. Most producers don't have the facility to hear full spectrum, so I usually add sub to the kik, and maybe a sample with some knock (800-3k). Go right now and pinch the kik and snr from No Doubt's "Hella Good". They are great to add to other samples. I am known here for straightening out failed productions. So I am expected to do whatever it takes to "fix it". But about 1/2 the stuff I get is already pretty close. Every producer wants something different from me. Some want the demo, but slightly better, and some want me to replay everything. I don't think you can have a static approach, every song is different.