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Shoji Kameda Here's another juicy topic that I thought it might be good to get into before NATC. The recent posts and discussion has got me thinking, is it still relevant to consider taiko in the US an Asian American art form? (apologies to those you who aren't in America and could care less what Asians in America think of taiko:) still your input is welcome!) First of all here are my Asian American credentials: I'm yonsei (fourth generation Japanese American). My father was very involved with the Asian American movement in the 60s and 70s he even has his own political action group: Asians for Community Action. I even married another yonsei and had a little gosei daughter. All of her cousins and 99% of her second cousins are hapa. She going to be the only Asian looking gosei on her block when she grows up but I suppose that's her problem. I'm about as Asian American as you come. Still I question calling taiko in the US an Asian American art form or calling your taiko group an Asian American performing arts group. Yes the history of taiko in the US is bound to the Asian American experience and yes at one point in time it was very important to carve out a cultural identity for Asians in America. But is it really relevant to do so today and what will it mean for taiko moving forward? Moving forward there are only going to be more non Japanese non Japanese Americans and non Asian getting involved with this art form in a substantial way. I feel like by dening taiko as an Asian American art form what we are saying is "yes you can be involved but we want you to do it our way and this little piece of taiko you can never touch". I would much rather say "here is taiko, you have just as much right to it as I do now go make it your own!". You can add "btw if you are interested here's where in comes from in the US and here's where it comes from in Japan now go make it your own!" August 10 at 4:56pm Like Comment Isaku Kageyama, C'est LaVie and 5 others like this. Adam Weiner C'mon Shoji, why all the softball questions? Kidding, I kid. Why "Asian American" and not "Japanese American"? And then to add to that, just what *is* Asian-American in terms of an art form? To me, any labeling like "Lebanese dance" or "TahitianAmerican cooking" only denes the art's origins. Aside from that, if someone wants to use the label to help dene what *they* do, great! If someone else feels it's too limiting and drops it, good for them! August 10 at 5:05pm Like Sean Ibanez Yeah, I don't think there's much else to calling it Japanese-American than signifying it's roots as a blend of American Fusion/Jazz with Japanese Taiko roots (as tenuous as that may be in light of things like taiko in Noh and Kabuki). Signifying the roots, to me, is an important thing, but I agree with Adam Weiner, there really isn't a point in getting everyone on board with labelling their group as such. I'm not Japanese at all. While I have Japanese family members, I never me them before I started Taiko. I'm big on history and historical practices, martial arts, and i had 12 years of prior percussion experience. So learning about Japan, historical taiko and performing were all great ideas. I got into taiko after seeing Kodo in 2001. I decided to nd a group that night. I think most of that reaction was to the nesse and power of the players. There was also an element of the beauty of the drums (sculptor here). But it didn't occur to me while watching the performance that this was Japanese. I just thought it was beautiful. Now that I'm more heavily indebted to it, the history has taken on an important aspect of my understanding of it. Therefore, like I said, knowing the roots is important to me. August 10 at 5:15pm Like 1 person Jon Wang I would like to see taiko transcend its racial roots. It's certainly important to be mindful of the history, but I have respect for kumidaiko more as its own musical and performance spectacle than a form of strictly cultural expression. It's not easy for me to identify with JapaneseAmerican history, and I think taiko should not necessarily depend on that nowadays - I don't nd "because I am Japanese" to be a compelling reason to play taiko. It seems strong enough as an art for to stand on its own artistic merit no matter who is playing or where it is being practiced. I hope taiko does not depend on being a Japanese thing for its

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legitimacy as an art form. You see this frequently in other martial arts. I recently spent an afternoon with a pekiti tirsia group and there was exactly one Filipino person engaging in and leading this Filipino art. He explained the history and the cultural reasons behind many of the customs, but it was clear that it went beyond just being Filipino - I saw merit in the technique and philosophy on its own, and that made it all so much more engaging. August 10 at 5:24pm Like 2 people Adam Weiner 1.) An all-Caucasian group playing either what they call "a Japanese-American art form" or "a Japanese art form". (taiko.) 2.) An all-Asian group making Tex-Mex cuisine. 3.) White rappers. Okay, that last one is a bit tongue-in-cheek but they illustrate my point. How is #1 any different from #2 in essence? August 10 at 5:24pm Like 2 people Jon Wang That being said, it would be foolish to ignore what the Japanese have done with taiko and it is undeniable that taiko has its roots and identity in Japanese culture. It's all about balance. Noting its origins is also fairly effective in describing what it is to newcomers and onlookers. August 10 at 5:26pm Like 3 people Elizabeth Stela Thanks everyone for posting. Just a little comparison with Brazil: So far what I have found is that those who dene taiko as Japanese or who have spent time in Japan seem to use taiko as a way to resist assimilation into national mainstream culture, to be proud of being Japanese descendents (representations of Japanese are not always favorable or present in mainstream media), or to interest non-descendents in Japanese cultural practices. ( However, I am still trying to come up with "conclusions" . I have not interviewed nearly everyone I want to...) I think that it is worth studying the history of each group,the life experiences of each person in the group, and why each person wants to dene taiko in the way they want to dene it within the larger social context. Sorry, I guess I didn't answer the question. August 10 at 6:12pm Like Samantha Mark Especially after seeing so many forms of "taiko" from different countries such as China, I personally don't think deeming it Japanese-American is fully appropriate. Yes, the word taiko is in Japanese, but sometimes I feel like people forget that this form of drumming also exists in other countries (and I don't just mean taiko groups forming around the world). My dad had showed me this movie entitled "The Drummer" from Netix and it's basically about the Zen Drummers from China and their drums pretty much look the same, their bachi look the same, and the way they play is very similar. So, relating to the question, I sometimes believe the general view on the art of taiko can be rather misleading, causing newcomers to think it's solely a Japanese thing (but I think it can denitely connect more with other cultures' forms of it). I think Kelvin Underwood had posted a video a while back of a couple of groups from other countries =) I just looked it up and I think it might even be the Zen Drummers. But anyways, I think that collaborating with other groups would help strengthen the "taiko" drumming community even more, further chipping away at any type of racial separation and the whole "I can't try it because I'm not Japanese" mindset. August 10 at 7:06pm Like Stanley N Shikuma I think taiko today is clearly part of the World Music scene and not contained within any one country or community. That said, I personally feel a strong connection to taiko because of my roots in the Japanese American community and the Asian American movement. If you look at the development of taiko in North America, the rst ten, maybe twenty, groups to form came out of a Japanese American community (though even from the beginning, the membership was not strictly JA or Asian). Back then, playing taiko was part of a movement for ethnic identity, political power, personal pride and breaking racial stereotypes. For many women, this was particularly appealing - at the rst NATC in 1997, we estimated that ~70% of taiko players in NA were female. Times have changed and so has taiko. Is taiko an Asian American art form? I'd say that's where it originated in North America, but that's not where it is centered today -- and even less so in the future. I would still say taiko has its roots in Japan. Not to limit it, but to accurately describe its cultural and geographic origins. No different than saying Bossa Nova has its roots in Brazil, Reggae has its roots in Jamaica, or that the Blues are rooted

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in the African American experience. Just acknowledging sources. August 10 at 9:29pm Like 1 person Yuri Kageyama As Stan says, if one is gong to get technical about denitions, taiko would be Japanese, not American at all. Archie Shepp once told me that jazz (although he doesn't like that term) is so African American that, all things being equal, a black musician is going to be better at playing it than someone of another ethnic group. It is black music. He also said that a Japanese is generally going to be playing top-notch hogaku, not a white or black musician. That said, there is only good or bad music, so let us play/write/create and live and get it on. It may matter in community politics where you grew up or what race you marry. But in art all that doesn't matter a hoot if you can't play. And ultimately art is there to transcend all these divisions. August 11 at 11:32am Like Bruce Ghent Do they call baseball in Japan an "American Sport"? August 11 at 11:47am Like Yuri Kageyama Everyone knows baseball as played in Japan came from the U.S. There are even theories about how the "Japanese" brand of baseball developed into something "different" from "American" baseball. At the same time, many Japanese players dream of playing in the majors, and Hideo Nomo was a pioneer. All this adds to the geatness of baseball. It is not a detraction. It shows how universal baseball is. And how greatness and the love for a sport surpass national boundaries. August 11 at 11:53am Like 1 person Art Lee Yuri Kageyama Possibly a good argument starter will be this post, but you are welcome to counteract...I will have to disagree with Archie Shepp and anyone who thinks that a type of music is stereotypically best played by a certain type of person. First of all, there is no such thing as "Black Music". It is just a stereotype name used in Japan for grouping together musicians of African descent. That said, there are many "white" Jazz pianists who are amazing top class Jazz musicians. By the same token, if a person of any race studies taiko in exteme depth, as well as the culture and history that made taiko in Japan what it has become (not just the performing aspect, but the history that goes beyond), then that person has just as much a chance of becoming a top notch taiko artist as any Japanese person. Of course, artistic sense and talent will play a part in the early and middle stages. But I believe that if a person is dedicated enough and humble enough to suppress pride and ego, whilst opening their mind and heart to all that is possible to be learned...and taking the time and dedication required to really understand fully what it is being undertaken, then there are no limitations to what any person of any race can do. August 11 at 12:07pm Like Yuri Kageyama Hi Art. Long time no see. I understand many people would disagree with Archie Shepp. It is not necessarily a popular opinion. As I said, I think national/racial boundaries are there to be crossed and the divisions overcome through art and music. But to ignore that people have opinions like Archie Shepp would be naive. And his music is powerful and speaks for itself. And he is also a warm and wonderful person. Many Japanese taiko masters feel they know the music best because they have the tradition, background, experience, style. Unfortunately, that is something one must often deal with if an American or any other outsider wants to study it, at least from the masters in Japan. August 11 at 12:16pm Like Bruce Ghent @ Yuri....exactly....and that's the path I see " American Taiko" taking.... August 11 at 12:28pm Like Bruce Ghent @ Art - Thanks for help breaking the mold... August 11 at 1:13pm Like Adam Weiner Imagine watching a taiko player who is covered from head to toe in a unisex outt and wearing a mask. You have no idea what gender, race, or age they are. You're impressed by how good they are. At the end of the performance, they take off the mask and you're surprised to see that they're really... You ll in the blank. Why are you surprised? ;) August 11 at 1:49pm Like 1 person Carl Tollander 90 August 11 at 2:16pm Like Chat (10)

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David Cheetham Adam Weiner I'm stealing that. :) August 11 at 3:43pm Like Shoji Kameda @Yuri Kageyama Yes taiko is from Japan. Yes someone steeped in Japanese culture is going to play Japanese taiko better than someone that doesn't have that background. Yes taiko originated from Japan and there is much to be learned from the source and if we are going to expand into the future we'll need to study more from the past. But what I'm working toward and hoping for the future of taiko is an art form that is open enough to allow many people to be their authentic selves with the taiko. Yes someone steeped in Japanese culture will play Japanese style taiko better than someone who doesn't have that experience. But you can use the same argument to say that someone who is steeped in a multi-cultural environment will play a style that reective of that culture better than someone who grew up in Japan. You can take this a step further to level of the individual artist. If you can study enough to go deep with the taiko and know who you are and be true to that then no one is going to play your personal style of taiko better than you are. This is why I'm constantly encouraging people to take more ownership of the art form and try to represent who they are with the taiko not some idea they have of what a Japanese tradition is. It's not to downplay the importance of tradition or say that you just because you hit the drum with a batch you are a taiko player (@chris shigeo holland) it's to say that if you do this well if you own what you do the taiko world can expand to include you and we all of us that love this art form will be richer because of it. August 11 at 4:05pm Like 2 people C'est LaVie Well said. August 11 at 4:07pm Like Jon Wang Somebody steeped in Japanese culture will be able to play Japanese taiko much better. The question I have regarding taiko is: at its deepest level, free from the fetters of history and geography, is the core of kumidaiko necessarily Japanese? Evolution is all about change, even if in small steps. I hope that I can play some kind of taiko, more representative of my own life, history, experiences, and culture, that stands apart from that. I'm not Japanese but I still play taiko. Actually, that's part of the success I see in mixed martial arts - there's been so much combination and innovation that someone's ghting style is utterly distinct from others, even if its contains unmistakable elements from a certain culture's art. Different styles are broken down into their essential strengths and weaknesses, and people who practice have a ne-tuned sense of how to train with a great level of mindfulness and open mindedness. I think that's really cool. August 11 at 5:39pm Like 1 person Adam Weiner I'm going to stir up the water a little and ask, does it even matter? Will what you/we label taiko change how much it means to you or change why you play it? I know this is a forum where questions are posed and responses follow, but when we dig so deep into such an intellectual discussion I think it's important to look up and realize that taiko is going to do what taiko does regardless of what we think it is. :) August 11 at 5:49pm Like 3 people Shoji Kameda Adam Weiner I don't think it matters that much what label taiko gets. I do think it matters what we think internally about our own relationship to the art form. These debates are only useful if they develop, informs and deepen our personal relationship with the art form. August 11 at 6:03pm Like Bruce Ghent @ Adam...after they take the mask off, I'm surprised to see they're really a Smurf. August 11 at 6:05pm Like 1 person Adam Weiner @Shoji - and I do agree it's important, but perspective (and taking a deep breath) is something we all need when the discussions get so..."in depth?" I can't think of the right word. @Bruce - then you need to lay of the hallucinogenics. lol. August 11 at 6:08pm Like Isaku Kageyama I'm studying hand percussion (primarily Chat (10)

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congas) at Berkee and I asked one of my professor if it matters that I'm not Latin American. He said, "Hey there are some people that are really insecure and they're going to trash you but that's their problem. It only becomes your problem when you start getting upset about it. It's more important to nd your sound and say something that only you can say." Another professor said, "It's OK if some people don't want to play with me for whatever reason because I get to play with some of the best." Both of these answers were legit enough for me so I stopped worrying about being Latin American enough and started practicing more. I'm not a heavy conga player but I'm still getting called because not every gig requires the likes of Giovanni Hidalgo. August 11 at 6:22pm Like 1 person C'est LaVie Isaku Kageyama: Also Just think how many people might miss out on something they would really love, just because of thinking they were not of the right ethnic group to participate. August 11 at 6:30pm Like Bruce Ghent @ Adam...I'm not going back to Taiko Rehab...no no no... August 11 at 6:33pm Like C'est LaVie Isaku Kageyama: Before I ever took Taiko, I use to run (excercise) by the Dojo daily and hear them play. For a good whole two years on my run, I'd pass by and hear the drums. Sometimes I'd stop and peek in and think, "wow, I really want to do that". It was not really an ethnic thing keeping me from learning taiko, I'm Haole as they come. It was my age and dyslexia. I'd always think, "I'm not coordinated enough, or I'm seriously Dyslexic and It will take me forever to learn those patterns. Then one day when I was about 55 or 56 I just said, "LaVie!, what are you waiting for?"!! Who cares? Do it for yourself, not for anyone else" Now I'm 59 and I wish I learned years ago!! In any case, point being....If a person is the 'wrong' ethnicity, not a fast learner, or whatever age, that should not matter. I guess it's different if you're a pro and it's your job. But I'd really encourage everyone else to follow your promptings. For me, It was merely getting over the fear of not being young enough or good enough. If I had let that get in the way, (and I almost did) I'd one day be 90, thinking, "aaah sure wish I'd done that" .....I may not ever be in the ellete or perform, but I TRULY LOVE and enjoy playing and it's become a very personal thing to me.:) August 11 at 6:46pm Like 2 people Bruce Ghent A Taiko Lab student came to live in SF for awhile and he was planning to study with a prominent group in SF (where I started from many moons ago), but his instructors told him not to because it would very much like studying in Japan, but instead study with an "American Taiko" group/school...he/they chose me. He didn't inform of me of this until the day before he went back to Japan. Made me think for quite awhile of what I was teaching...questions of legitamacy and other so-called injustices to the art form that I might be committing occupied my thoughts. Are we a second class taiko organization? Will they be looking at me as a snapshot of what American Taiko is? I've traveled & performed throughout Japan but what is it that I'm doing? And how about my "taiko-dancers" (Dance Brigade) who I went to Cuba with this summer. There seemed to no questions of legitimacy from the Cubanos about a bunch of pretty white girls in western costumes playing taiko. We did speak on the historical background/tradition of the art form for the television and the Maestro there loved them and said it takes a certain breed to be able to dance & drum. And as for my taiko teacher, he has embraced GRRRL Brigade (all-teen girl group who dances/sings/plays taiko in gypsy outts) and supports them whole-heartedly. So I've laid my ill-fated presuppositions to rest and come to fact that as Adam had alluded to: Taiko is what Taiko does, I am what I do and I know where I came from. August 11 at 7:38pm Like Yuri Kageyama Wow. Thanks for all your thoughts. They make me feel the future of taiko is bright. The power of Music lies in how it can bring people together. And no one is advocating that differences (in individuals, nations cultures, traditions) dont matter. They do matter. And one must not forget the experience of racism, and how that makes an individuals experience very very different. That should be respected. That is part of something that makes someones sound unique. We need to understand this and make sense of this, and embrace and learn from the views of people like

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Archie Shepp, while seeking selessly to cross borders if we hope to rise above this in a meaningful way. Otherwise, we are doing a disservice to Americans like Bruce, Kenny, Chris, Isaku, Shoji and so many others who have gone through so much not only to study all kinds of tradition but also endure the pain of exclusion to win inclusion, as true artists, to ultimately nd ones own voice, and make this world a better, less racist, more musical place. August 11 at 8:21pm Like Matt Palmer So for the most part, we are discussing how "we" see taiko. Obviously we matter, we are they ones playing after all... I don't know how much Shoji thought this might become a strictly racial conversation, but as someone with a dalliance in ethnomusicology, I'm very interested in this conversation. Something I think would be interesting to look at would be an audience response... For example, let's say Shoji, Kelvin and I each start a taiko group. Aside from the fact that my skill as a player and teacher is like, a thousandth of either of them, if we each played for the same audience, I wonder which group would be most liked? Would racial judgements play a part? How about which group would the audience think most authentic? Maybe it doesn't matter, and maybe as artists we should say "who cares?" but at the same time, we are redening what that audience believes taiko to be when we play for them. If it's always a "traditional" show then that's the concept of taiko we promote. Racially speaking, I rather feel that when I play in a taiko group that's 80% Caucasian, the Caucasians in the audience can see themselves as possibly playing... At least, that's been my experience with people who register for classes after a concert. Likewise, sign people up for information (in my region anyway) at a San Jose, Kenny Endo, or Taikoproject concert, and you will discover a much higher percentage of "Asian" names on the list. I just thought I would expand the conversation to how others view taiko performances, particularly in the context of authenticity. I just want to add that, to me, authenticity is when you are true to yourself, and make the art you want to make, unless of course you tell your audience that #2 on the set list is a Japanese traditional piece called Miyake, and then you play something that has not even the slightest resemblance to the piece. Then you are just openly displaying your ignorance and lack of diligence as a person studying an art form. :) August 11 at 9:43pm Like Matt Palmer Sorry to post again right away, but I thought of an alternate example that's interesting food for thought but may be taiko urban legend. I forget most of the details, but there was supposedly a member of Kodo who was an excellent dancer. She absolutely mastered a regional dance and decided to enter the local competition. She lost to a local girl who performed admirably, but not as well as she did. She was told she did not win because, not having the blood of the region and not growing up breathing the air of the region or seeing the sights the people of the region saw every day, she simply could not perform the dance of that place as well as someone who had those experiences. While this is a great way to talk about the differences of technical mastery and pure spirit, I can't help wondering what that judge would think of a discussion like the one going on here... August 11 at 9:54pm Like 1 person Isaku Kageyama Contests are so full of BS. The local girl was probably the judges daughter or some crap. August 11 at 11:35pm Like 1 person Art Lee Shoji Kameda I didn't have enough time to redirect to your original question at the time. I don't think it is relevant to consider taiko in the US as an Asian American art form. I do consider taiko in North America to have its own avor and spice...very different from taiko in Japan. And this certain avor of taiko has become prevalent enough to consider it a North American art form. Now please understand that I am referring to the technical, physical and visual aspect of taiko as an art form in North America. When I consider the in August 12 at 12:09am Like Art Lee inuences of cultural identity, I can understand why the rst generation of Japanese American people in the US would have taken this art form from Japan and embraced it as their own at a time when it was necessary to do so then. I also look at myself and the African American half of my identity. And I remember that although I have faced exclusion and racism, it was never to the degree that my parents, and grandparents faced. Yet, they struggled to give me a life where I didn't have to deal with issues of race and could just be as equal as any other person...just to simply be the best human being I can be. So, when I began African drum lessons in Japan, I didn't do so because I felt the need to express my identity. I did so because I love the music and wanted to

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improve my taiko ability through learning other types of music. I think it is perfectly ne for someone who wishes to express their cultural heritage to do so through learning taiko, but I don't think taiko in North America **of our generation** needs to be anything other than North American taiko...if not simply taiko from Japan. August 12 at 12:36am Like 1 person Chris Shigeo Holland At the risk of sounding rude and making some people feel uncomfortable, can I say something? You know how we are having all these philosophical debates about tradition. What tradition is, how we dene it, what counts, doesnt count, what matters, doesnt matter. . . before we even get to that point can I ask how many of us have actually made an effort to learn what the traditions are? Like, REALLY tried? How many of us have taken the time to go and see the taiko that we are talking about? How many of us have been to kabuki? noh? seen edo style matsuri bayashi at a festival? seen hachijo daiko? seen chichibu yatai bayashi at the actual festival? Seen gojinjodaiko up close? How many of us saw Oguchi Sensei before he passed away? How many of us have sought out teachers that are considered masters, or top players in all of the taiko world? I don't want to sound stuck up, because that is not my intention at all. Looking at the people who are commenting on this post it is very easy to nd people who have really been there and seen all these things, however, it is the vast minority. Before we have these philosophical conversations maybe we should focus on getting enough people exposed to the traditions in a real way (not just video or talking about it) Like actually encouraging more people to take the leap, seek out the best teachers, go and see these festivals for themselves. I dont even feel like the community as a whole is at a place to be having this conversation. I dont even feel like I am at a place to be having this conversation and I am living in Japan playing "Japanese taiko" , whatever that means. Lets talk about how much we disagree about what tradition is and its importance after we have dedicated a signicant chunk of our lives to trying or best at understanding it. . . I hope this didnt come of the wrong way, I'm just sayin' August 12 at 10:46am Like 3 people Jon Wang I can certainly admit to knowing basically nothing about taiko. I would still like to discuss it. It's the best that we can do for those of us who don't really have the means or life situation to make to Japan and really devote the time it would require to learn the real traditional stuff - it would take a lifetime to just understand all there is to taiko in Japan. I don't really have the capability to drop everything in my life and pursue the art under the tutelage of a master like some of those who inspire us, and I guess that means I can never be one of those superstars in the taiko community - I accepted that a long time ago. That's part of why I'd like taiko to not be bound by the Japanese label. And that's a big part of this discussion getting too hung up about knowing a ton about legitimate taiko is a major barrier to people engaging with the art, and I feel that a big part of the identity of American taiko is its openness and willingness to integrate new people who have a passion, even if it's not "raised properly." And Chris, you don't have to be really apologetic. It's a perfectly legitimate point that doesn't get much exposure when you round up a bunch of North American taiko players and ask them about an art that actually has its history in a different country. August 12 at 11:02am Like 1 person Chris Shigeo Holland Jon Wang I denitely didnt want to give off the idea that I think that everyone needs to be in Japan studying taiko for their whole lives for us get anywhere, I denitely dont feel that way and I never want someones inability to study taiko in Japan to stand in the way of them becoming serious about the art. In fact, I see it as the responsibility of those who can make that jump to share everything that they know and learn with the rest of the community. . . But at the same time, I don't know where the balance is. I feel for whatever reason N. American taiko has taken on this philosophy that anything goes, and if its not taiko, then who cares! its North American Taiko and we are doing our own thing. Who are you to tell us what we play isnt taiko? I liked the baseball analogy brought up earlier. No one in Japan denies that baseball comes from America. No one tries to re-invent baseball and create a new sport and still call it baseball. If they invent something new they call it something new. The cool thing about Japanese baseball is that now it has gotten to a level were it is in the running for the best baseball in the world. They didnt even have to be American to beat the Americans at their own game! But they

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did have to play baseball, and they had to play by the rules. They had to learn the basics, the principles, they had to study the greats. They had to train, and learn, and train, and learn, AND THEN and only then did Japanese baseball players become recognized as the legit badasses that they are. August 12 at 11:17am Like 1 person Adam Weiner @Chris, yeah I didn't feel like you came across where you need to apologize. Here lies the danger of a few of us intellectualizing in detail about taiko. I honestly don't feel like the large majority of taiko in NA is "anything goes". To me it seems most groups play for the love of the art, and are happy to simply have the resources to exist. There are a few groups that might push the envelope or try to mix in some crazy stuff, but if you start actually counting those groups, how many are we really talking about? I've seen and heard of a lot of groups that do try to follow "the rules", either what they think Japanese taiko should be like or what their founder/sensei tells them to do. But when you look at how hungry people are for taiko knowledge (this group, TaikoForum.com, the NATC, etc.) you can see that people WANT to learn but don't have the time, resources, or even the support from their own group. As for the baseball analogy, how do we know there weren't some wacky Japanese teams playing baseball in a circle instead of a diamond early on, or combining the rules of other sports just because they could? Were they admonished for not following the "rules"? Did they care? Granted, it's a competitive sport and not a performing art, so that's a bit of apples and oranges, but you get my point. :) August 12 at 12:35pm Like Isaku Kageyama If an average beginner practiced snare drum rudiments on a shime for 30 minutes every day, mixing it with taiko rhythms here and there, in 6 months they would be playing some really good shime. It might not sound traditional, but it would still be good. And as fellow taiko drummers, we would see that this person had put in a legit effort and we would respect that, if not be moved by it as well. The only thing stopping you from being as good as you want to be is you. Its not your environment or race or anything like that. If you just sit down and put forth a legit effort youll be cool. Youll be better than all the bad players, and all the good players will know youre working hard and respect you for that. August 12 at 1:22pm Like 4 people Shoji Kameda Chris Shigeo Holland Jon Wang Adam Weiner Great turn of conversation. You guys touch on a excellent point. Which is talk and passion on a FB group is great but what are actually going to DO about it? I will say that my participation in this group has opened my eyes to the want and need for NA taiko to get more exposure to quality instructors of all kinds. I've been asking myself this same question: "What am I actually going to do about all the @#$% I write and talk about?". I recently had a conversation with Yoko Fujimoto about taiko in north america and about tradition and innovation that helped me clarify my thoughts on the subject. Some of you have heard this analogy before but here goes. We need to think of tradition and innovation as two points on opposite sides of an expanding sphere in three dimensional space. If we want to move more toward innovation then we must expand the sphere which means movement toward tradition in an equal amount. Tradition and innovation are not in opposition they are part of the same expanding sphere. It's our job to expand that sphere to a point where it can include everyone because that represents the scope of what taiko can be. This is how I think about taiko on the individual level as well as the level of the art form. If I want to make more innovative music then it needs to be supported by a deeper and more expansive understanding. If I want taiko to grow it means not just putting my energy toward On Ensemble but also putting energy into supporting groups with the opposite philosophy of On Ensemble. This all great an all but what am I actually going to DO about it? Being a part of this forum and seeing and reading how passionate many of you are about taiko has really inspired me. I'm rededicating myself to being part of the solution to building more community and putting my $$ where my mouth is:)

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Which got me thinking about the things that almost everyone can agree on in the taiko community. For example I think 100% of us would like to know more about hachijo and miyake and would LOVE to have the opportunity to study in more depth from the source of these two styles that have so heavily inuenced taiko as we know it. This got me thinking about my own local SoCal taiko community. For the most part people gets along pretty well but there are clicks of groups that kind of hang out together and support each other but I'm wondering if there is something more basic like trying to get someone from hachijo to come to Los Angeles and teach a week long or month long intensive that all of the SoCal taiko groups could get excited about. Anyways this is a long and rambling post. But I wanted to share a bit to let you all know that the thoughts that get posted here do inuence how I'm thinking and will inuence how I act! August 12 at 1:35pm Like 1 person Jon Wang @Isaku that's a good point and that's sort of been the crux of my taiko development for the past couple of years. I'm relying on practice and mindfulness, since there's a relative dearth of instruction on the East Coast (though I believe that is changing even as we speak), and I know that the stuff that me and my group are trying to produce has very little rooting in the really traditional stuff. If anything, training in Western music and martial arts informs our taiko, in addition to over a decade of combined collegiate taiko experience of varying kinds. @Shoji I'm really looking forward to what you work on and I'd like to help you in any way I can. I know that this taiko publication will denitely be a big step in the right direction when it comes to getting exposure to a variety of styles. August 12 at 1:47pm Like 1 person Matt Palmer Hey Chris, you make a lot of great points. For me personally, I lived in Tokyo from 2001-2002. I had great opportunities, like seeing kabuki and biwa performances. But most likely my biggest regret is not pushing to study taiko there. I had no (read, living in Tokyo on $500/month after rent) money to travel, and unfortunately, my Japanese friends told me that getting into a taiko club was unlikely, especially for a foreigner, so I should do something easier like shamisen. Which I did, and I kept up with it after I got back, but I wonder often how different my life might be if I had started lessons at nihon taiko dojo or oedo sukeroku taiko... Anyway, I thought this discussion was less about tradition and more about whether taiko in the US is an Asian American art form. I know for me, the questions I asked were simply an attempt to get taiko players to think about their taiko audience. I'm sorry if I was in any way offensive, I meant it simply to be an objective look at how I've observed people reacting to performances etc. I love everything everyone has said, and I think that's the crux of things for me. Communication. Just by talking I hope we can improve things. Resources and opportunities are hard to come by on the EC as was mentioned. I recognize my own lack of experience and have asked others like Kaoru Watanabe to come and work on pieces like Miyake and Yatai so that we can try to get a better understanding of the roots. In addition to holding classes in a center that supports Asian American arts and artists, all of our current revenues go to bringing in instructors and buying equipment. Right now, that's what I can do. I hope we do have more exposure and more opportunity to expand the spheres of tradition and innovation! I really like that explanation Shoji, thank you for sharing it. August 12 at 2:07pm Like Bruce Ghent @ Jon - from what I got to see and share with Rutsubo, I think all of you have good roots and great respect for the art form. Trust your instincts and keel it up. August 12 at 2:12pm Like 1 person Shoji Kameda Isaku Kageyama well said! So true. Must go practice now. Jon Wang likewise! I have another kind of big idea that maybe we can pull off together and perhaps tie into the ECTC:) I'll be in touch. August 12 at 2:44pm Like Isaku Kageyama Jon Wang I'm on the East Coast too bro. There's not much taiko here but there's a lot to do and a lot to learn. Come hang out at Berklee with me some time. August 12 at 6:06pm Like Jon Wang Yeah, I'm still getting settled in to the post college Chat (10)

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life. I'll be moving to Boston in a few weeks, so I'm sure you'll see plenty of me. By the way, have the East Coast Taiko Conference folks spoken to you, yet? August 12 at 6:08pm Like Isaku Kageyama Jon Wang I got a FB invite. Are you talking about that? Anyway, just give me a call when you're in town man. 857-472-4201 August 12 at 6:09pm Like Chris Shigeo Holland Matt Palmer Thats too bad that your friends discouraged you, but its never too late! I think that is great that you had a chance to see things like kabuki though! This question of whether or not Taiko in NA is American Taiko, Asian American, Japanese American, etc. is missing the picture. We can be American playing taiko. We can be AA playing taiko. We can be JA playing taiko. We can be Puerto Rican american playing taiko! But at the end of the day taiko is Japanese, that is inescapable. To me lots of people keep trying to escape from that fact. Taiko is Japanese. You cant ignore tradition, you cant ignore the fact that taiko is Japanese. That doesnt mean you cant be yourself, or do your own thing, but it DOES mean that you cant just have a free for all and do whatever you want and still call it taiko. I dont think that people like that idea. They want to be 100percent free and the second someone mentions something that sounds like a denition, or restriction or whatever everyone gets up in arms. I want people to express themselves through taiko. I want as many people in the world as possible to be exposed to taiko and have the opportunity to play. But it is not a free for all. Before we go too crazy trying to invent something new, or come up with all these unneccesary denitions I think we should rst try learning as much as we can about the traditions, and then over time some of these "questions" wont even be questions anymore, and we can start talking about the next stage. Or at least, thats how I feel...I think its great that you are seeking out help from experts that you have access to. In the future itd be great to get more of that happening right? August 13 at 12:23am Like Adam Weiner @ Chris - I have to put on my Devil's Advocate hat here and ask, how is taiko Japanese? The drum itself? What if it's made from a U.S. manufacturer out of synthetic material? I know a lot of people that don't consider that taiko. The art form? Well if you say taiko's origins are in Japan, yes. But if you say "Taiko *is* Japanese", then it seems that taiko is still "owned" by Japan, which I doubt anyone here would agree with? Once an art goes global, who has claim to it? August 13 at 1:04am Like Isaku Kageyama You don't think taiko is Japanese? August 13 at 1:21am Like Adam Weiner Just throwing the question out there. Taiko the drum or taiko the art form? If it's Japanese, then what does that mean - how is it dened as such? Honestly, I hate for this to be another discussion in semantics, but I'd like to get people thinking. August 13 at 1:23am Like Yoshihiko Miyamoto Adam Weiner I have a question I want to ask. Why do you want Taiko to be non-Japanese-artform? August 13 at 1:49am Like 2 people Stephen Sano Heh-heh . . . Shoji, I'm going to go nd your midterm for the "Perspectives in North American Taiko" seminar from , oh, 17 years ago, and see how you answered this question. ;) August 13 at 1:57am Like 1 person Adam Weiner I'm sorry if my question isn't clear - I never said I wanted taiko to not be Japanese. I'm simply asking for people to clarify what it means for taiko to be "Japanese". I don't have an agenda. Is the *drum* itself Japanese? What if it's made in the U.S. out of plastic? Is it still Japanese? I've seen things called "taiko drums" that don't look or sound like taiko to me. Are they Japanese? Are they taiko? Is the *art form* currently "Japanese"? If so, how? How would we dene the current state of the art in that way? August 13 at 1:57am Like Isaku Kageyama Dude, if they don't look or sound like taiko Chat (10)

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they're not taiko. August 13 at 2:04am Like Adam Weiner @Isaku, then the other question to follow that is: If someone plays on a taiko but has never learned much about the art form, are they playing "taiko"? August 13 at 2:07am Like Yoshihiko Miyamoto probably they are playing "taiko" badly. August 13 at 2:10am Like 2 people Isaku Kageyama I think you just answered your question when you said they're playing on a taiko. August 13 at 2:14am Like Yoshihiko Miyamoto Well, I do not know if this could be your help. But I always think there should be some common terminology. For my convenience, I use "Taiko" to call Japanese drum as instruments. And I say "Taiko performance" or "Kumidaiko" upon referring to Japanese drum performance. So, I would say North American Taiko is North American style Taiko performance? August 13 at 2:21am Like Isaku Kageyama Adam Weiner Has someone been giving you crap about not being Japanese enough to play taiko or something? Don't mind those people because the real good ones that are worth playing with aren't hung up about that. August 13 at 2:21am Like 3 people Adam Weiner @Yoshihiko, I personally have my own denitions, but thank you for yours. :) @Isaku, no one really gives me crap - maybe it's my height? lol. To both responses, I just want other people to think more about the terms we use. When is taiko not taiko? When is a taiko player a percussionist? Who denes what is "Japanese taiko"? Those are the questions I like to pose. But I don't want to stray (too far) from the original question Shoji posed...but it's probably too late now! August 13 at 2:38am Like Yoshihiko Miyamoto Shoji Kameda Get it back on track! I have to go to my friend's birthday. August 13 at 2:45am Like 1 person

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Shoji Kameda Haha... so we are back to the age old "What is taiko?" question. I will save us all about 100 posts and just let you know what the eventual semi consensus will be: "Who cares as long as a it's good." I picked this subject originally because you do see taiko groups and others advertise themselves as an Asian American performing arts group or a group rooted in a Japanese American tradition and wanted to challenge that idea. I understand that the history of taiko groups starting in North America is bound to the Japanese American experience but that is different than the technique and artistry of taiko. If we are talking about technique and artistry then basing what taiko can be on such a short history just seems crazy. Taiko in NA was started by a bunch of pot smoking Sansei who started playing taiko in their 20s, didn't know what they were doing, made half of it up as they went a long. They made some great innovations along the way and we should keep the ones that work and build from there. It can be our starting point but can't be our ending point. If we use the term Japanese American taiko only to signify the roots of our groups in NA as Stan has suggested then that's great. If we use it to signify any kind of ownership then I think we're screwed. For the record I think that taiko originates from Japan but that there can be many styles of playing taiko. I think that you should know as much as you possibly can about the source and about the traditions that taiko comes from. I think you should seek out and learn from the best teachers available to you from all sources traditional and otherwise. But in the end I think it's just an instrument and I it doesn't bother me if I see someone playing a taiko with no taiko experience. A great jazz drummer can play a set of taiko and it will be great. The only thing that bothers me is bad music. And let me clarify what I mean by bad music. I'm not talking strictly about the execution of the music. Some badly executed music is actually great music and some well executed music is really bad. It's a combination of factors that make good music but the most important in my mind is "realness". Is it truthful? Is it honest? August 13 at 7:29am Like 3 people Shoji Kameda Stephen Sano please do not do that:) I can't even agree with the stuff I posted two days ago. I should start all my posts with a little caveat: (I might not believe the following but I"m going to post it anyways and maybe your responses will help me gure out what I"m thinking on the subject). August 13 at 7:37am Like 4 people Write a comment...

La Matsuri Taiko http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=150370321710439 LAMT presents "Sukeroku Style Taiko Workshop" by Tosha Kiyonari - AM Location: San Fernando Valley Japanese American Community Center Time: 9:00AM Saturday, September 10th August 13 at 3:42am Like Comment Shoji Kameda Hey guys! One of the real innovators of the NA Taiko Community could use your help. Michelle Fujii is producing her rst solo concert project and is trying to nd 101 supporters at $33 a person to help make it a reality. I'm not going to be able to make her concert but have pledged my support and I'll hope you join me:) support | mi-fu.me mi-fu.me I recognize that the path I am now embarking upon is because of so many people, like you, who have intersected with my life. For that, I thank you for being a part of informing, shaping, and impacting the artistic journey I am beginning now. August 2 at 11:55pm Like Comment Share Stanley N Shikuma, Marinda Chen, Maryll Phillips and 12 others like this. View all 23 comments Michael Morita To the one who taught me to make curry @ Chat (10)

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