Nolan 31

AMERICAN ARBITRATION ASSOCIATION * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the Matter Between: * * CITY OF HARTFORD * * -and* * IAFF, LOCAL 760 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
April 7, 2010
Volume 3
TERMINATION HEARING
HELD BEFORE: HARVEY M. SHRAGE, Arbitrator
CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE CHERYL S. DAMATO, CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER LICENSE NO. 00298 300 TOLL GATE ROAD BERLIN, CONNECTICUT 06037 (860)828-8847
APPEARANCES: Representing the City of Hartford: ATTORNEYS FOR THE CITY OF HARTFORD 550 Main Street Hartford, Connecticut 06103 BY: IVAN A. RAMOS, Corporation Counsel
Representing Daniel C. Nolan FERGUSON & DOYLE, P.C. 35 Marshall Road Rocky Hill, Connecticut 06067 BY: JAMES C. FERGUSON, Esquire ALSO PRESENT: DEB COLLINS-CARABILLO DAN NOLAN VINCENT FUSCO SCOTT BRADY PETER TOWEY
CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE
. . . The following is the Arbitration in the Matter between: AMERICAN ARBITRATION ASSOCIATION -and-
IAFF, LOCAL 760, held before HARVEY M. SHRAGE, Arbitrator, and Cheryl S. Damato, Certified Court Reporter in and for the State of Connecticut, held at the Sheraton Hotel, East Hartford, Connecticut, at 8:56 a.m. on Wednesday, April 7, 2010.
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M I C H A E L
P A R K E R ,
recalled as a witness by the Union, having been previously duly sworn by the Arbitrator, was examined, and testified further on his oath as follows:
THE ARBITRATOR: everyone.
Good morning,
We're beginning day three of this matter
between the City of Hartford and IAFF Local 760, and we are in the middle of the cross examination which will continue here with Union's counsel.
CROSS EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR. FERGUSON: Q Good morning chief? MR. RAMOS: witnesses. THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record. We have sequestered the
(Off-the-record discussion.) BY MR. FERGUSON: Q I am going to try not to go over ground I Despite my best efforts. THE ARBITRATOR: Let the record
already covered.
reflect, and I appreciate the reminder, that there was an agreement to sequester witnesses and at this time all witnesses have been sequestered and we can
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continue. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q You stated in your testimony that there were
three complaints brought forth against Mr. Nolan. A Q Yes. And the first one came from the chief operating
officer of the City of Hartford? A Q A Q Yes. And the second came from AC Milner? Yes. And the third came from Local 760 President
Fusco, correct? A Q Correct. And they were all basically within the same time
frame within days of each other? A Q Yes. Prior to those complaints, had you had any other
complaints concerning Deputy Chief Nolan? A Q A Q In regards to? In regards to anything. I don't think so, no. And refresh my recollection: You have been on
the department and in charge of personnel for how long? A Q Thirteen-and-a-half years. So for more than half of Dan Nolan's career, you
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know of no charges against him on any matter prior to the three that were brought forth in that short time frame, correct? A Q A suspended. Q A Q A During your tenure? When I was there, yes. For what? I believe he was suspended for a couple days You're going back to disciplines or -Disciplines or any complaints. I am aware that he was disciplined. He was
for -- it was under Chief Dobson's administration, and I think it was removing a ladder, taking his ladder out of service at a scene or disrespecting Assistant Chief Smith, something to that effect. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Do you recall the time frame? I thought it was a two-day suspension. The time frame of when it occurred? When it happened? Yes. Prior to 2000. Other than that, anything else? Not that I can recall, no. And that was prior to him being promoted to his
position he held?
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He was a line lieutenant, I believe, suppression
division at the time. Q So it didn't in any way affect his career ladder
or his promotional -A Q No. Is it accurate to say that the complaint from
the chief operating officer was anonymous? A Q Yes. Did you inquire or attempt in any way to find
out where that complaint came from? A Yes. I requested did he have any more I was told no.
information. Q A Q
So it was an anonymous complaint? Yes. In your experience in being in charge of
personnel and labor, is it common for you to investigate anonymous complaints? A Q action: A time, no. Q A Q Fifty percent of the time approximately. And do they usually result in disciplinary anonymous complaints? I am trying to recall. I would say most of the
The complaints are to follow up. But in this case you followed it up? I was directed to. You were directed to by whom?
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A Q
Chief Teale, I believe. With regard to the complaint from AC Milner,
that related to mileage? A Q correct? A Q Yeah, I didn't find any serious problems. So basically we're here today from the anonymous What Yes. And that was determined not to be sustainable,
charge of the chief operating officer of the city. was the nature of the complaint, of the anonymous complaint from the chief operating officer? A
His complaint was that Chief Nolan was I believe
meeting with applicants prior to the interview with the chief and myself for the hiring process and that he was giving the applicants the questions that we were asking at the interview. Q And what was your determination with regard to
that anonymous complaint? A Q We found nothing to substantiate it. So it's fair to say the only complaint which
caused you to discipline or recommend the discipline of Chief Nolan was the complaint from Local 760 President Fusco? A Q Yes. And was that an anonymous complaint?
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A Q
Yes. Did you ever determine who the member or members
of the fire department were who made the complaints about D.C. Nolan that were passed on to you from -A Q No. No. So we're here today because of an anonymous
complaint from a member or members of the department and you have never determined who made those complaints? A The anonymous complaint came from the president
of the union to me. Q You're not answering my question. We're here
today because of an anonymous complaint from a member or members of the department and you have never determined who those members were? A Q A Yes, I have not. Okay. You attempted to determine that?
I asked President Fusco if I could have the name
and he declined. Q And did you ask any -- withdrawn. You also in your investigation spoke to members of the class which Chief Nolan oversaw, correct? A Q A Q Yes. Approximately 20 members? Yes. Did you ask each and every one of those members
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or any of those members if they had filed a complaint through President Fusco? A Q No. Okay. So it's possible that none of the members
of the class ever complained about Chief Nolan? A Q It's possible. All right. But you didn't even attempt to try
to find out if they were the complainants? A Not through them, no. Through the president of
the union. Q Did Assistant Chief Milner when he reported the
complaint or the concern regarding the mileage of D.C. Nolan, did he indicate how he came upon or about making that complaint? A Yes. He informed me that there was a Garmin in
Chief Nolan's car and I believe Superintendent Smith who is in charge of the maintenance division checked it or was doing something with it and came up with New York Airport, Airport of New York and I think Boston on it. Q Is it common for members of the department or
the supervisors of the department to check on Garmins or GPSs in personnel cars? A Q A It's the first time I know of. And does everybody have one? I believe -- I know there's probably three or
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four out there in the chief's cars. Q A Q A Q Are they supplied by the city? Mine is. The fire marshal's is.
What about Chief Nolan's? I am not sure. So do you think it's appropriate for somebody to
go into what might be a personal GPS in somebody's car? A If it's inside the city vehicle. If it was
checked, if it was on. Q
I don't have the facts on that.
Is it proper for somebody to go into a city car
and go through checkbooks, mail or anything else that might be in the car that's personal in nature? A Q A No. How do you differentiate between the two? I don't know if that's a city Garmin, city
property or not. Q But you went ahead and what might not have been
city property and investigated it anyway, correct? A Q Yes. With regard to the Milner investigation, are you
aware that the superintendent actually reported the investigation concerning the Garmin about five months prior to his complaint, Milner's complaint to you? MR. RAMOS: this point. I am going to object at
This is not the subject of the
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discipline that's at issue here.
We didn't sustain
any of those allegations so they're not really -THE ARBITRATOR: Union on it. it. Go ahead. MR. FERGUSON: Basically there are a Well, let me hear the
I think I know where they're going on
number of charges against him anonymous in nature. Two of the three have been determined not to be effective. We're claiming disparate treatment.
We're claiming he's being treated differently than anybody else. There's no action that that has been
done to anybody before. THE ARBITRATOR: I'll allow it. The
question of how it plays out and the weight of it, but in terms of the argument the Union wants to make here I think is within the realm. Go ahead. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q A Q Are you aware of that, that it was five months? No. Would that be appropriate for somebody whether
it's a chief, officers or anybody else to hold information and then make a complaint contemporaneous with other complaints about somebody's action or inactions?
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A Q A about it. Q
I would like to have had it sooner. Does a complaint ever get stale? No, I wouldn't say so, unless someone finds out If it's brought to my attention. Well, you're aware that D.C. Nolan had been on
administrative leave for over three months by the time A.C. Milner filed his fire service, correct? A Q Yes. And so it was post the administrative leave You agree with that,
determination that it came to light. correct? A Q
Yes, it was brought to my attention, correct. And what about the other two complaints? Were
those post his administrative leave? A I don't believe so. I don't recall exactly the
time that I received it. Q A But they could have been? No. I think I received -- no, it was before I interviewed him when he was still
administrative leave.
working there, I believe. Q So he was put on administrative leave pending an
investigation for what actions exactly? A chief. Q For what actions? He was placed on administrative leave by the
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While we were looking into the allegations
against him. Q Which ones? It couldn't have been A.C. Milner.
You just testified that happened post administrative leave. A It was done after we received a complaint from That's what initiated it and
the chief operating officer.
same time I received the Union complaint. Q So you received two of the three complaints
contemporaneous and then later you got the AC Milner mileage complaint? A They all came out the same time. I believe A.C.
Milner was the last one in writing. complaint. Q
He made a verbal
Well if A.C. Milner's complaint, if his fire
service was actually three months after he was on administrative leave, wouldn't that make the other two, if they were all contemporaneously because that was your testimony previously? A Yeah. I just don't recall the exact times these
things unfolded. Q Did you find it unusual in any way that the
three different complaints about D.C. Nolan were just prior to the new recruit class starting? A No, I didn't put any relationship with it.
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Prior to this incident, had you ever received
any complaints about D.C. Nolan concerning his running of the training division or the training school? A Q No, no formal complaints. Can you recall any other time when you received
three nearly simultaneous albeit differently-based complaints about one fire official? A Q A Q No, never recall that. And you didn't find that unusual? Oh, yes, I did. And you don't find it ironic in any way that
these complaints were received just prior to him training a new recruit class? A I didn't put that together at all. I just
thought it was ironic they had all three complaints coming in. Q Now, you made some -- you testified concerning Do you recall that testimony?
the issue of Play Stations. A Q Yes.
And you stated in your direct that you asked
D.C. Nolan specific questions about the allegations against him, correct? A Q Yes. There were eight questions that you gave to him.
There were eight questions that you posited to him?
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A Q A Q A Q
I had written questions. There were eight? If that's what there were. Do you remember? I don't have them in front of me, no. And I believe Attorney Ramos asked you if you
recalled exactly how you phrased the questions to D.C. Nolan in regards to the Sony Play Stations? A Q Yes. And you replied that you asked if he requested
from recruits in training to donate Sony Play Stations in return for reduced hours to be run? A Q A Q Yes. Okay. And what was his answer to that?
He said no. Okay. And that question was posited based on
what information that you had that was the predicate for those questions or that question? A Q The Union's complaint. The Union's complaint. So the Union actually
told you that he was soliciting Play Stations from -A Q It's in writing. And was that confirmed by testimony or
statements from any of the 20 members of the class? A Yes.
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And who?
Who exactly confirmed that?
Who in
the class confirmed that? A Q A Q A Q notes? A I don't have my notes with me but I believe it That Play Stations were requested? Uh-huh. Quite a few. Who? I don't have them in my notes but I would say -What do you mean you don't have them in your
was Shapiro that bought them. Q A Q Ashley Shapiro? Yes. And did he confirm that information when you
talked to him? A Q Yes. So it's your testimony here under oath that
Ashley Shapiro told you that Chief Nolan asked him and other members of the class to purchase Play Stations? A He was asked to purchase Play Stations, tickets
-- Play Stations. Q Stations. A Play Stations. He was asked -- I don't have the I am going from memory but No, no, we're just dealing with -- just Play
exact question in front of me.
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he was asked if Play Stations were purchased before he reduced towers and he said yes. Q requested? A Q I believe so, yes. So if Ashley Shapiro said that wasn't true, then And did he say that he specifically was
he'd be changing his testimony or statement? A Q I had quite a few other guys that mentioned it. We're dealing with Ashley Shapiro. So if he
said that didn't happen, then he would be changing his statement to you? A Q I believe so, yes. And the fact that he stated to you that Chief
Nolan asked him directly to purchase Play Stations is reflected in your notes? A No, I don't have anything that says directly he
was asked by Chief Nolan. Q complete? A My notes are what they are. They're the facts Okay. So is it fair to say your notes aren't
that were given to me. Q The facts were given to you according to your
testimony here today that Ashley Shapiro was asked by Chief Nolan? A I don't think I said that. I said he was asked
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to purchase a Play Station.
I don't think I said he was I am not sure that was
asked directly by Chief Nolan. even in my question. Q Nolan? A I am not sure.
Well, who was he asked by if it wasn't Chief
If I had my notes I could tell
you exactly what the question was. Q I am not concerned with the question. I am
trying to ascertain -- he's been terminated and partly because the allegation is -A Q A Most of the guys. We're asking about Ashley Shapiro. To the best of my knowledge I believe the squad
leaders asked for the donations. Q A Q A Q A Q And who were the squad leaders again? I can't remember their names. But you talked to the squad leaders, correct? They were part of the investigation, yes. And you can't remember who they were? No. And when Mr. Ramos asked you what did D.C. Nolan
say with respect to Sony Play Stations, you stated that D.C. Nolan said he never requested Sony Play Stations; is that correct? A I believe so, that's correct.
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And as you sit here today you cannot tell me or
name one person in that class or anybody else that you investigated who directly stated that D.C. Nolan requested Play Stations, is that correct? A I am trying to recall the testimony. I can't
recall if that was directly asked. felt intimidated. Q
I know they said they
I am not asking you about that.
I am asking you
a specific question about a specific incident. A Q I can't recall. Okay. Can you recall -- we talked about Can you recall any of the other 19 who
Ashley Shapiro.
directly stated that Chief Nolan asked him or her to purchase a Play Station? A Q No. You also stated that D.C. Nolan -- you
investigated whether he requested members of the class to purchase training tickets -- pardon me, raffle tickets in exchange for reduced hours, correct? A Q Yes. Now, who of the 20 people that you investigated,
or not investigated but spoke to as part of your investigation, specifically said that Chief Nolan requested that they purchase raffle tickets in exchange for reduced towers?
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A Q
I don't recall their names. Do you recall if their names are explicitly a
part of the report that you did or the investigatory notes that you made prior to making your recommendation? A Q What was the first part of that? Do you recall if your notes reflect who of the
A Q A Q A
Yes. You do? Yes. They do, okay. Squad leaders. Mentioned that they were in the
squad when they were being asked to get donations. Q I am not talking about donations. I am talking
about raffle tickets right now. specific. A Q Okay.
We're being more
Do you recall if they ever specifically were
asked by D.C. Nolan? A Q A I believe it was the squad leaders. He asked the squad leaders specifically? To the best of my recollection, I believe it was
the squad leaders when he had his meetings at the end of the day. Q And your notes will reflect who those people
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were? A I think some of the squad leaders were
designated in my notes, yes. Q A Okay. I think McCue was one, Stevenson was, Marvin I don't know what they call them battalion
Stevenson was. leader. Q A Q A
So McCue and Stevenson? Yes. Anybody else? Those six squad leaders, I believe. I don't
have their names. Q And you would suspect since he stated that if
you were claiming under oath, he would state that that was accurate? A Q That's what it says in my notes, yes. Other than the raffle tickets and the Play
Stations, were there any other specific items requested by D.C. Nolan according to your investigation? A I believe money was involved. A T-shirt was donated. A salsa lesson
was donated.
Recruits were asked
to go to businesses to solicit donations. Q Let's take them one at a time. Who specifically
stated that Chief Nolan solicited money from the recruits? A Squad leaders through their meetings.
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Q A Q A
Which squad leaders? I don't have their names. Are they reflected in your notes? I believe so. If I had my notes I could tell
What about the salsa lesson?
Was it more than
A Q A Q A
I believe there was one salsa lesson. And who specifically indicated to you? I can't recall his name. What about the T-shirt? Can't recall his name. Something like a $20
T-shirt was donated. Q A Q
Family members donated money.
We're on the T-shirts now. T-shirt, okay. And you say that Deputy Chief Nolan or Training
Chief Nolan directed members of the class to solicit donations from businesses? A Q Through the squad leaders, yes. Let's talk about soliciting businesses. You
testified that was a concern, I believe, because it would reflect negatively on the department to have a member of the department going out into the community to solicit business. A Yes.
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So is it fair to say that as the person
responsible for discipline, that that is verboten; that that is not allowed in the department to do that kind of thing? A Q A Q To walk into a business and solicit money? Yes. We frown on it. Did you ever discipline anybody else because
they did that? A Q Not that I recall. Are you aware that that is an ongoing
proposition as we speak? A Q A Q To solicit businesses? Yes. No. And has there ever been an SOP or directive from
you, Chief Teale or any other leader of the department indicating that was not allowed? A Q I am not familiar with one. So even though you frown on it, you have never
made it an official policy of the department to prohibit such activity? A Q I don't believe so. Isn't it true that you're aware that every year
members of the department pass the boot for MS?
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A Q
Yes. And you have never directed members of the
department not to take part in that activity? A Q Correct. And that members of the department as part of
that activity, go to businesses soliciting money? A Q A I am not aware of that. Not at all? Not going to businesses. We stand out in the
street and receive the money. Q So it's okay to do it directly from the public
but not to do it from businesses who might have deeper pockets? A Q For muscular dystrophy, it's for causes. What about the recent activity in writing from Are
members of the department soliciting money for Haiti? you aware of that? A Q Yes.
And that's also allowed or countenance in the
department? A Q A Q Yes. Was it in writing? I don't believe so. Was there a directive that that was an exception
that was unpublished?
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A Q A cause.
I don't believe so. That the rules of the department to -We frown on it. Something for Haiti or national
THE ARBITRATOR: one. A Or national cause. THE ARBITRATOR: A Yeah, we do.
I didn't get the last
You do allow it?
BY MR. FERGUSON: Q So you make a determination, don't publish it,
that certain causes are okay and yet are disciplining a, quite frankly, terminating a 20-year member of the department with no -- with one previous discipline when he was a line lieutenant for engaging in basically the same activity? A towers. They were soliciting money to have reduced That would be an added on. It's a little
difference there. Q What's the difference? It's a charitable
contribution. A They felt intimidated. They felt this
individual had control of their career. Q Okay. So it's not the activity of charitable It's about the person who
contribution you object to.
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asked it and his relation with the people involved, correct? A We do not authorize individuals on the fire
department to go on, without our knowledge to go in to businesses representing the fire department for donations. Q A that. Q recent. So let's take Haiti because that's the most With regard to Haiti, somebody was in charge of Do you know who did that on behalf of the At all? We don't. Without our knowledge we don't allow
doing that. department? A Q A Q
I can't recall.
The city did it also.
And you approved of that? Yes, I approved of that. Somebody came to you ahead of time and said it's
okay to do that and you're allowed to do that, to solicit? A Q No one came to me, no. Okay. On direct you were asked about the drill
tower, correct, and running towers? A Q Yes. And you were asked during your testimony to
describe the inside of the drill tower at the fire academy. A Do you recall that testimony? Yes.
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You stated that it had metal stairs going up,
that it had no windows and it was six stories high? A Q A Q A Q A No windows. It had openings.
So it does have -Well, it does have openings. And it's metal stairs? I believe so, yes. You believe or are you sure? I haven't been down there in years but I believe
it's metal stairs. Q So it wouldn't surprise you if that's incorrect
and it's actually concrete stairs? A No, it wouldn't surprise me. It's been years
since I have been in there. Q I show you this picture and ask you if you can
recognize it? A Q A Yes. What is that? That's where they -- that's the tower where they
ran their stairs, they ran their punishment towers, I guess, at the training facility. Q correct? A Six stories high, one, two, three, four, five, And it's not six stories high, it's five,
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Q A
You're counting the roof? One, two, three, four, five, six. MR. FERGUSON: Okay. I'd like to
offer that? MR. RAMOS: No objection. Union 1 is received. Received in
THE ARBITRATOR: (Union Exhibit 1: evidence - described in index.) MR. RAMOS: Looks different, though. THE ARBITRATOR: all need to have the same one.
It's a good picture.
Hold on a second.
We
(Off-the-record discussion.) THE ARBITRATOR: been received. Union Exhibit 1 has
There was a bit of confusion as to
different versions of it that were inadvertently circulated. Union 1 is the official -- Union 1 does
not show the stairs right in front of you as you look at the picture. It shows the stairs, just a slight
bit of the stairs to the side and that will be the official copy. I am giving it back to the Union's counsel who will make additional copies at this point. BY MR. FERGUSON:
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I am going to show you the stairs.
Do you
recognize those stairs? A It looks like the ones in the training tower. MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR: I'd like to offer that. Union 2 is marked and
received, which is the stairs which is identified as the stairs and tower and that's being returned to Union counsel as well to make additional copies. (Union Exhibit 2: evidence - described in index.) BY MR. FERGUSON: Q With regard to your questioning of the members Received in
of the class, did they tell you that they had to run six stories each time? A Q No, I don't recall that. Did they tell you they ran all the way to the
roof every time? A Q No, I don't recall that either. There was significant testimony from you
concerning your concern that the running of towers in the case of that class was excessive, correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Did any member of the class indicate to
you the number of towers that were actually run on a daily basis by members of the department?
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I believe some of the probation firefighters
mentioned they were doing like 20 a day or something to that effect. Q 20 a day? A Q No, I don't. Do you recall some saying they didn't run 20 a Do you recall which said that they were running
A Q
I am sure some said that. But your testimony is that some unnamed -- I
don't want to use the word witnesses -- firefighters that you questioned said they ran 20 towers a day? A Q According to my notes. According to your notes. And did they say how
many times they ran 20 towers a day? A Q I can't recall. Do you recall how many you said ran 20 towers a
A Q A Q
I can't recall. You can't recall even one? It's in my notes. Is the objection the number of towers they ran a
day or the fact that he gave multiple towers as discipline? A The objection?
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Well, the objection:
the thing that you find
warrants termination. run 20 towers a day? A
Is it because they had to actually
What warrants termination is firefighters that
felt intimidated by soliciting and donating and in return they get reduced towers where they felt towers were being added on just to increase donations. And we had, out of We had a vast
20, 19 people in the class, one cadet. majority say there were donations.
Some of them felt
intimidated and Chief Nolan denied all of them. Q Okay. So is there anything other than the fact
that Chief Nolan denied it and the fact that members came to you and complained that or in your investigation determined they were intimidated, is that the sole reason he's being terminated, those two things: the fact that
members were apparently intimidated because they had to buy raffle tickets or they were requested to buy, not had to but were requested to buy raffle tickets, and the fact that when you talked to Chief Nolan he denied that. that the reason? A Is there anything else? Is
I wasn't part of the hearing that terminated I do the preliminary hearing to present the
Chief Nolan. facts. Q
I am asking you based on the facts you elicited, Objection?
was there any other --
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. FERGUSON: Q
MR. RAMOS:
Finish.
Was there anything other than what you just
stated that caused you in your investigation to recommend to the chief the action that ultimately took place regarding -A I didn't recommend anything. I gave the chief
the facts of what my investigation showed. Q Well, in your opinion as somebody who does
discipline, is effectively in charge of discipline, what actually did you find that was in violation of department rules and regulations albeit not written, that caused you to determine that there was some actions that were wrong that were conducted by Chief Nolan? A Q A In my opinion? Yeah. Oh, okay. Abuse of power, having them again go
out for soliciting money, et cetera. Q A And what else? I have 20 people come in front of me saying, Chief
most of them, the majority saying this went on.
Nolan denied it except for maybe -- let me correct. Except for the running of the tower at -- I can't think of the -- he did say that -- I can't think of the name of it right now. It just slipped my mind. Anyway, there was
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one that Chief Nolan said. Q A Q A Q The Big Climb? Yes. He admitted the Big Climb? Yes. Was it okay for him to engage them in donations Is that okay?
for the Big Climb? A yes. Q A Q A
If it was just for the Big Climb in my opinion,
And the other was the Lea Foundation? The Lea Foundation was another one. Was that okay? It's okay to a point where it wasn't being used
to reduce towers, put towers back on. Q Okay. So the Big Climb was okay. The Lea
Foundation was okay? A Q In my opinion, yes, the Big Climb was okay. So what exactly -- what exact charitable
donations that were sought by Chief Nolan to the extent that that's true, was not okay? A Q A From what I investigated? Yeah. He asked for money. No routes were given. He
asked for any donations. Q For what?
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Tickets to be purchased.
He had family members.
He had recruits going to their families to get donations. Q I understand the allegation. I am asking what
events or what charitable donations were not okay? A Most of them didn't even know what they were
donating to. Q Is it your claim that Chief Nolan enriched
himself in any way as a result of these donations? A Q No. Going back to the 20 towers a day, did they say,
the ones that supposedly said 20 towers a day, did they say how many times they ran 20 towers a day? A Q A Q times 5? A The general consensus was they were running I don't recall. Did you ask? How many times a day, I am not sure. How many days? They were there for 14 weeks, 14
towers almost every day. Q A Q Twenty towers a day? Approximately, from my memory. If there were no donations involved for
allegedly reducing towers, would 20 towers a day be cause to terminate somebody? A Depends what the towers were given for. No.
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No, it wouldn't be cause for termination if
there was no quid pro quo in your estimation? A Q Not to me, no. So you don't object to the number of towers.
You object to the fact that in your words they were, members were intimidated to get reduced towers by making donations; correct? A Q A Yes. And that constitutes abuse of power? The abuse of power was the intimidation where The towers were given just
donations would reduce towers. to a higher number.
Some more donations were being
brought in to reduce towers and at the end they thought that Chief Nolan had their career in his hands. Q Isn't that true for every training chief; that
the careers are in the hands of the training chief and the training department with regard to their activities during the 14 weeks; isn't that true? employees, right? A Right, they're probationary. They can recommend They're probationary
hiring or dismissal. Q Right. As a matter of fact, Chief Nolan, during
that class, did recommend dismissal of a number of firefighters: A three?
I believe he did, yes.
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As a matter of fact you personally came to the
training division to investigate his recommendations, correct? A Q I have done that a few times. And in fact you did recommend that at least one,
if not two members of that training class be dismissed for not performing up to the standards of the department on the recommendation of Chief Nolan, correct? A Q That sounds accurate. With regard to the raffle tickets, you said that
approximately half of the class stated in their statements to you that Chief Nolan, through the squad leaders, recommended that they purchased raffle tickets and if they did they would be reduced towers, correct? A Q A more. Q A Q Well, you previously testified? Yes. Half, okay. So it's safe to say half of them Yes. So half of them said that wasn't true? I don't know. I am going at least half, maybe
denied that too, correct, or a little less than half? A Q A I am not sure that's the right number. I am just going by what you said. The majority of the class knew about raffle
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tickets as a total, knew about raffle tickets, knew about donations. Q Okay. Just answer the questions. Your counsel
will have a chance to ask you all the questions he wants after I am done. There was also some testimony on direct concerning Wiis. A Q Yes. And what was your testimony, if you can restate Do you recall that?
it here, concerning Wiis? A A Wii was supposed to be purchased for Captain
Costello, I believe, which the money was reimbursed back to I think it was Shapiro. Q And is that also -- was that to reduce towers?
Was that also to reduce towers? A Q I was given that impression, yes. Were you given that impression or was it stated
by Mr. Shapiro? A I believe it was to reduce towers. It was all
part of the system, the ongoing problem. Q That wasn't a donation. That was something that
one of the members of the training division was looking -A It wasn't a donation because I believe the
firefighter was reimbursed. Q Is that one of the reasons he's being
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terminated?
That he sought on one of the members of the
department -A Again, it was taken as part of the whole
donation thing for reduced towers. Q When you spoke to D.C. Nolan, did you ever ask Was that ever one
him about the Wiis, the Wii incident? of your questions to Chief Nolan? A Q A Q I don't believe so.
So he never had an opportunity to explain that? I grouped that in with the Play Stations. Even though the Play Stations were for charity
and the Wii was for -A Just electronic games, Wii or Play Stations. I
used them both. Q There's no evidence on the record from your
investigation that anybody was directed by Chief Nolan to purchase a Wii or chair for charitable donation? A Anything on the record? The recruits were -- I
was told the recruits were told to get a Wii or electronic game for Captain Costello for his wife so she could give it to him. Q A Q A And that was at the Laudermill hearing, correct? I wasn't at the hearing. You weren't at the hearing? No.
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Q situation? A Q A of them. Q
So when did you learn about the Costello's Wii
From one of the recruits. That was Ashley Shapiro? I am not sure it was Ashley Shapiro. A couple
You testified previously that it was
Ashley Shapiro. A I believe he's the one, to the best of my
recollection, that purchased the electronic games. Q A Did he tell you that? I believe he did, to the best of my
recollection. Q A Q Okay. Yes. But did anybody tell you that it was at the And other people mention that he did?
direction of D.C. Nolan directly? A Directly. I am not sure. I believe it came
through squad leader meetings. Q And you don't even know as you sit here today
whether it was D.C. Nolan who directed them through the squad leaders to find a Wii for Captain Costello? A Q Squad leaders. I can't recall that.
And you do recall that you never questioned
D.C. Nolan in your investigation, in your discussion with
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him at the start of the investigation about the Wiis? A Q I believe that's accurate. Okay. Your question No. 3 of your questions,
did D.C. Nolan tell you in the class that if you participate in the Big Climb on your own time, the towers would be reduced, correct? A Q A I guess. And 7 of them said yes and 13 said no? That's correct. THE ARBITRATOR: What you're referring
to there is something in evidence? MR. FERGUSON: don't know if it's in. THE ARBITRATOR: referring to earlier. This is what I was He created a chart. I
It was marked for
identification as City 2, is that consistent? MR. RAMOS: That's correct. But I don't have a I'd
THE ARBITRATOR: copy of that.
I take it I didn't receive that.
have to go back in the transcript. MR. FERGUSON: MR. RAMOS: in. I want it in. MR. FERGUSON: about it. I am asking questions It's City Exhibit 2.
Well, Jim doesn't want it
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THE ARBITRATOR: it coming in now? MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR:
Are you agreeing to
Yes. City Exhibit 2 is now
received, and if the arbitrator can get a copy of it. MR. RAMOS: Okay. What I am referring to
MR. FERGUSON: is the second to last page. THE ARBITRATOR:
Let the record
reflect the question counsel for the Union referred to that -Why don't we just take a three-minute break here and everyone can stretch their legs. (City Exhibit 2: evidence - described in index.) (A recess was taken at 9:48 a.m. and the hearing resumed at 9:55 a.m.) THE ARBITRATOR: If we could just go Received in
back to that last exhibit we were just referring to now received as City 2 and, Mr. Ferguson, you made reference to. MR. FERGUSON: Yeah, on the second to
last page, there's responses from the -- my question was predicated upon the second to last page which is a chart of the answers of the people concerning the
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various questions which are on the preceding pages that were asked of the members of the department or the class. THE ARBITRATOR: MR. FERGUSON: questions. THE ARBITRATOR: I am asking whether What are we doing? I am going to ask some
you're all set to go so he can continue. MR. RAMOS: I am all set. The witness has in
THE ARBITRATOR: front of him City Exhibit 2. MR. FERGUSON: he has no recollection. THE ARBITRATOR:
He can refer to it if
Fair enough.
The
witness does not have in front of him City Exhibit 2. There are some questions that are going to be asked and if at a particular point we'll get it to him if necessary to look at. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q And I was asking you question No. 3, did
D.C. Nolan tell you or the class that if you participated in the Big Climb on their own time that towers would be reduced; and your answer was yes? A Q Yes. And according to your chart, 7 recruits said yes
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and 13 said no; is that correct? A Q If that's what it says. Question No. 4, D.C. Nolan asks you to donate
money for punishment towers to be reduced? A Q Yes. And according to your chart, 8 of the recruits
said yes and 10 said no? A Q That's what it says. So according to this chart these also had
inconsistent answers that contradicted each other, correct? A Q Yes. That's how they said yes or no to.
And that would by shear logic stating that if
they were inconsistent internally among themselves that some of them would be inconsistent with D.C. Nolan's testimony also, correct? A Q A I wouldn't know. Right? Well, they answered the questions and some were I try not to
saying yes and some were in the gray areas. point the gray areas -Q
But 12 of them said no; 8 of them said yes.
Twelve of them were consistent with Nolan and 8 weren't? A Q Okay. Do you know who those 8 were off the top of your
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head? A Q No. Did those members you questioned, were any of
them ultimately dismissed from the class? A Q A Q A Q A Q The members I questioned? Yes. One member was I believe. Just one? Maybe two if you count -- two. And do you recall what their responses were? No. Okay. Would you expect that the ones that were
dismissed might have negative feelings towards Chief Nolan? A Q Yes. In fact, you know that they did have negative
feelings towards Chief Nolan, correct? A I wouldn't know that but I would expect if they
lost the job. Q Were those members that were disgruntled might
have negative opinions against D.C. Nolan, were they appointed or recommended to another class? A Q Yes. And is that, in your experience, something that
happens very often in the department; that members of the
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department who are dismissed for inadequate performance are allowed to reenter another class? A Q No. Is that a policy of the department to allow them
to do that? A Q A Q involved? A There's politics involved with a lot of things. I don't believe it's a policy. Was there any politics involved in that? I wasn't involved with any discussions. Okay. So it's possible there were politics
I wasn't involved with discussions. Q Fair enough. Of the 20 people that you questioned, did you credit the testimony of any of them more than others? A Q response? A I just brought them in and we try to get them No. Not at all. You gave equal weight to each
completed in a week's time the best we could, do it in a short period. Q With so many different answers to the seven
questions and so many inconsistencies among the members of the class, how did you reach a conclusion with regard to what you're asserting here today?
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A stated. Q
I didn't have -- those are the facts that were
So you never concluded like you're testifying
today that he was abusive of power and that he required members -- members were intimidated? that? A I concluded myself. I never put it in writing You never concluded
or was never involved in any meetings. Q So that leads me back to my previous question.
Based on the inconsistency in the testimony where in one case 8 recruits said yes with regard to donating money for reduction in towers and 12 said no, how did you conclude that the 8 were correct since you didn't weight anybody differently, and the 12 were incorrect? A That was one question out of how many questions?
There was a lot of -Q I am asking about that question. So you would
conclude that the 12 were right because you didn't weight them, that D.C. Nolan never asked members of the class to donate money because 12 said no and 8 said yes. If you
didn't weight them, if you didn't weight the 8 higher than the 12, how did you come to the conclusions? A Q A Are you talking my personal? Well, you're the one that conducted the -This is a preliminary investigation. I
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conducted a preliminary investigation and it has to go to the chief's office. There's no conclusions or anything.
It's just facts given to me. Q But now you're testifying, Chief, with all due
respect, and I do have respect that you didn't weight them and you have concluded that Chief Nolan intimidated and abused power? A Q Some of the recruits, yes. I am a little confused. You say that all you
did was report the facts and now you're testifying that based on those facts that you have concluded that Chief Nolan abused his power and he did a quid pro quo or solicited money for reduction in towers. conclusion, correct? A Q Correct. And you also said you didn't weight the answer, That's your
that you didn't credit any of the particular firefighters or members of the class differently than others; and again, wouldn't you say that if 8 recruits said yes to the quid pro quo and 12 said no, that more than half the class, in fact 60 percent of the class said he didn't do that, correct, according to that answer? A Q That's what the answers were given to me, yes. But yet you conclude that the 8 recruits who
said yes were correct and the 12 that said no were
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incorrect, correct? A I concluded there was reason to believe that
this should go to a formal hearing. Q But now you're here testifying based upon
your -- withdrawn. Is it fair to say that once you concluded your report, you were no longer involved in the process? A Yes. MR. RAMOS: stated many times. MR. FERGUSON: I claim it. Here's the question. You stated, Objection. It's been
THE ARBITRATOR:
I want to make sure I am clear on this.
and I just want to make sure I am stating what you have already stated. You stated you did not make any
recommendations in your report, is that correct? A Correct. THE ARBITRATOR: Did you have any
conversations with the chief or anyone who is in a position or who made the decision in this case as to your recommendations? A I had a conversation with the chief to go
forward with a formal investigation and I think I was in there one day and I said, We have to do -- I would recommend a formal investigation.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. FERGUSON: Q
THE ARBITRATOR:
Okay.
I think that
you have exhausted his personal beliefs on this question here because the connection is not there. MR. FERGUSON: I'll move on.
I also read the report of your findings that you
submitted to Chief Teale, and is it fair to say that you only documented negative comments about D.C. Nolan? A I would say the majority of it, yes, to the best
of my recollection. Q Were there any positive comments made by the
recruits concerning the class and D.C. Nolan? A voluntary. end. it. I believe some of them mentioned that it was I am not sure if I put that in the page at the
Some of them said it was voluntary -- this could do He would say it was voluntary that they could donate
but they also felt intimidated at the same time. Q What about any other positive comments about Did you ask any
recruits, about the class in general? questions concerning that? A Q No. No? THE ARBITRATOR:
Let me make sure.
The last comment you said that some of the recruits said that he said to them, they said it was voluntary
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if they wanted to donate or not donate. A Yes. I believe two or three; or I shouldn't
give a number but some of the recruits did say that but they also felt they were intimidated and they said it was sort of a -- forgot the word they said, but they felt intimidated and they were going to do it and they just wanted to get through training. THE ARBITRATOR: proceed. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q And do you recall who those specific members who Thank you. You may
said they were intimidated are? A Q No. Wouldn't you think it would be important, since
that's the reason he's being terminated, to note who was making these charges against Chief Nolan? A Q A Q I believe it's in my notes. It is? Yes, it is. Okay. And you previously testified this last
time just as a way of recalling, you also testified that towers were reduced in many ways, correct? A Q scores? Yes. Trivia, good old class performance, high test
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A Q A Q A Q
Yes. Do you find anything wrong with that? No. That's okay? Yes. And you didn't denote that in your report to
Chief Teale? A Q A Q That they were reduced for that also? For a lot of reasons. I don't believe so. Now, you testified that there were a certain
charities that are countenance or allowed or recommended or supported by the department, correct? A Q correct? A Q A Q A Q Yes. In a more formal way? Yes. The chief one being United Way? Yes. And each member of the fire department receives Yes. And others that are supported by the whole city,
a donation form for United Way along with a payroll deduction slip, is that correct? A Yes.
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And it's also true that that's voluntary; they
don't have to do it, correct? A Q Yes. It's also the case that the fire department
members must complete a form stating even if they choose not to donate to the United Way, they would check "choose not to", correct? A Q I believe it's on the form, yes. And wouldn't that be a situation where a member
might feel intimidated if they don't choose to donate to the United Way since that's something that's supported by the department? A Q I don't know. I don't believe so. So in other words, it's
So that's different.
okay for you or Chief Teale or the leadership of the department to formally submit United Way slips to all the members of the department with a payroll deduction slip and if somebody doesn't want to donate, they have to check specifically that they don't want to donate, correct? A Q Yes. And you don't think that could be intimidating
to members of the department? A I don't believe so. I don't see how it could
Well, don't you -- not you personally but
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doesn't the leadership of the department have final say in who's promoted? A Q A Q A Q The chief does, yes. Okay. And it's the chief's charity, correct?
It's the city's charity. But he supports it; he's out front about it? Yes. And that's not the only charitable charity or
charitable event that is supported by the department, is it? A Q The only charitable event? No, it isn't.
The fire department is also involved with the
Cromwell Children's Home, correct? A Q Yes. And that's something that the chief seeks
donations from the members of the department for, correct, or has in the past? A Q In the past I believe. Okay. And MDA we mentioned, and there's also
toy drives for local elementary schools during Christmastime? A Q A Q Yes. And you support that? Yes. And in fact charities, that charity --
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withdrawn. With regard to the toy drive, merchants are specifically solicited, aren't they? A I don't know. I am not part of that. I don't
collect the toys. Q But if there were. If somebody comes here and
testifies, you have no problem with it because you know that it goes on, correct? A Q A Q A the Union. Q So it's okay if it's a member of the department If they solicit toys? Yes. If they solicit for toys if we're aware of it? Yeah. I don't think the fire department. I think it's
if it's Union activity but not for training? A We know where they're given. They're given to
the children of the city. Q So is it your complaint that there's not a
solicitation but rather that you don't know or didn't know with regard to this whether or not the charities went to Lea Foundation, for example, or the Big Climb or any of the other charities? A That's not my complaint at all. That's not my
concern, I should say.
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Okay.
You stated in your previous testimony on
direct that you had a big concern about the safety of the recruits, correct? A Q Yes. And you said the city's great concern about the
investment in a recruit firefighter are for them to be injured or removed from a class reduces the amount of firefighters they can put on the line, correct? A Q Yes. And is it fair to say that you were also
concerned about the safety of line personnel? A Q Yes. Would this concern extend the concern of the
public citizens they are paid to protect? A Q Yes. Is it accurate to say when you want to
supplement the line firefighters you in fact want them to be supplemented with probationary firefighters who can perform these fire evolutions not to endanger the firefighters or the public? A Q Yes. And in fact that's why you send firefighter
recruits to training for 14 weeks, correct? A Q Yes. So that at the end of 14 weeks they can perform
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the necessary evolutions safely to protect their fellow firefighters and also the public? A Q Yes. In previous testimony you define what the
recruits' training consists of during the 14 weeks of the academy. A Q Do you remember that testimony? Yes. I think I briefed over it.
You stated it consists of a hose evolutions,
ladder evolutions, medical training, paramilitary in structure, and that there were practical evolutions they were graded on in order to pass. your testimony? A Q Yes. To your knowledge, would one of these evolutions Is that consistent with
that recruits are required to pass be known as "roof ladder ventilation evolution"? A Q A Q Yes. And you're familiar with that, correct? Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this evolution
would require a recruit to, one, raise a 35-foot ladder up a two- or three-story building? A Q With other recruits, yes. Then carry a 14- or 16-foot roof ladder up the
35-foot ladder, right?
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A Q
With another recruit, yes. Slide the roof ladder on the beam up to the
pitch of the roof? A Q Yes. Then flip the ladder on the side and push the
hook end of the ladder over the peak of the roof on the building? A Q A Q Yes. And that's the evolution, correct? Yes. Once that is accomplished, the recruit would
then take up a gas powered saw, correct? A Q A Q Yes, they would bring up equipment. And how much does that gas powered saw weigh? I am not sure. Okay. Twenty pounds. And then they have to cut a
Fair enough.
ventilation hole in the roof, 4- by 4-foot ventilation hole, correct? A Q Yes. And the purpose of that is what? The purpose of
cutting the hole in the roof is what? A Q A The training purpose. Well, the actual purpose. Getting the gasses out. MR. RAMOS: I am going to object --
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. FERGUSON: Q testimony. it.
MR. FERGUSON: MR. RAMOS:
Why? I
-- on this whole line. Did I miss
don't see the relevance of all that. something? MR. FERGUSON:
I am going to get to
MR. RAMOS:
It's very interesting. It's part of his direct
MR. FERGUSON:
I am going to cross-examine on it. THE ARBITRATOR: I am going to let you
continue and then we may take a break. We're in the ventilation hole. MR. FERGUSON: He's answered yes.
Is it fair to say this operation during a fire
emergency is performed during five or ten minutes? A Q A Q It's done as quick as possible. Huh? Yes. Is this a crucial task when people are known to
be trapped in a building? A Q Yes. And when recruits perform this evolution at the
academy, is it in a controlled environment? A Yes.
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With no actual smoke, fire, power lines down and
recruits would have an air mask on, correct? A Q Correct. Do you remember being in a meeting at the
training academy along with Debra Collins with human resources during the first week in November of 2007? A Q I don't recall. Regarding the -- let me -- regarding the
substandard performance of Felicia Graves, one of the recruits? A Q Yes, I believe we did have a meeting. And did D.C. Nolan make it clear to you that
recruit Graves was failing academically and physically and violated the code of conduct policy because of her safety issue and her lack of ability? A Q To the best of my recollection. And he put it in writing also. He gave you a
fire service to that, right? A I don't recall but I believe that would be the
normal course to follow. Q And do you recall at the conclusion of that
meeting that you actually went out the front door of the academy along with Ms. Collins and D.C. Nolan and Lieutenant Juda to see Recruit Graves to perform that duty?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 35.
A Q
Yes. Do you remember her performance or can you
describe what you witnessed? A I believe Recruit Graves was at the top of the
Another probation for her was a firefighter behind She was having trouble pushing
her with the roof ladder.
the roof ladder up the roof on the beam, if I remember correctly. Q And after fifteen minutes isn't it true that she
could not effectively perform this evolution? A Q It was a while, yes. And you specifically, you personally asked
D.C. Nolan to stop the evolution? A I don't recall that but I think I would have
stopped it, yes. Q And would it be fair to say that recruit Graves
was being evaluated in a controlled environment without dangerous smoke, fire or children to be rescued? A Q Yes. Would it be fair to say that she could not
perform minimally the requirements of that evolution? A Q service. Yes. And you previously testified you received a fire What action did you take after you received the
fire service?
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A Q A Q
On Recruit Graves? Uh-huh. I don't recall. Well, let me refresh your recollection or Isn't it true that you and AC Milner met with
attempt to.
Graves and allowed her to continue in the class despite all the deficiencies in the Nolan fire service and after you requested that she be dismissed from the class? A Q Yes, I believe that's accurate. Is this a common -- is it common practice for
two assistant chiefs to have a private conversation with a recruit with numerous violations to include safety to be allowed to continue in the academy? A chiefs. Q Is it common after viewing, understanding all We have conversations with recruits to assistant
the problems that she was having with a myriad of evolutions, with a myriad of safety concerns, to allow somebody to continue at that point? A We had the meeting with her and she was allowed We do not have the ability to That's up to the chief of the
to stay in the class.
remove her from the class. department. Q
Did you make a recommendation to the chief to
remove her from the class?
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A Q A Q A Q class? A Q
I believe I did. You did? Yes. At that time? Within that time period. And the chief allowed her to continue in the
I believe so, yes. And you're aware, are you not, that many of the
towers -- withdrawn. You're aware that the way discipline occurs and has occurred for many, many years in the department is all recruits, if some recruit does something wrong that the whole class receives the same punishment, whether it's a run? A Q Yes. That's standard operating quasi military
procedure, correct? A Q Yes. And the idea behind that is that you work as a
group, you work as a team on the fire grounds when you become a firefighter and that you're only as strong as your weakest link; would you agree with that? A Q Yes. And would you agree that in the estimation of
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the fire training division, that Recruit Graves just could not cut the mustard, correct? A Q Yes. But she was allowed to continue by, you say,
Chief Teale another couple of months, correct? A Q She was allowed to stay in the class. Would you consider that to be preferential
treatment for someone? A I believe, yes, because we were looking for
female recruits. Q Okay. So if she had been a male recruit,
there's no doubt in your mind that she would have been dismissed from the class? A Q I am not sure. Well, based on your experience. Based on your
experience. A Q Yes. Ultimately, two months later, she was dismissed
from the class? A Q She was dismissed. And why? Let me refresh your recollection. Wasn't it due
to more violations and substandard operations? A Q Substandard performance, I believe. And substandard performance?
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A Q
Yes. But yet you previously testified here today that
Recruit Graves was invited back into the next class? A Q A Yes. Why? The chief of the department allowed her back in Other people that have --
the class as other members.
that were removed from the class. Q Based on your experience in the fire service for
over 30 years, is that consistent with the way you would run a department? Well, you did run a department. Would
you have done that same thing in West Hartford when you were the chief? A Q No. Now, she wasn't the only member of that
department of the training class that was dismissed during that 14 weeks, correct? A Q A Q There was other members dismissed. One was Edsel Rodriguez? Yes. And he was also dismissed due to consistent
substandard academic and physical performance, correct? A I believe so, yes. THE ARBITRATOR: going in a similar direction? Are you going to be
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MR. FERGUSON:
No, I am almost done. Thank you, though.
We're going to move right along. I understand. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q A Q And he's not a female. Yes.
Edsel is a male, right?
And he was also recommended for dismissal by
Chief Nolan prior to the actual dismissal, correct? A Q Correct. And in spite of that, he was allowed to continue
in the department, in the class for some weeks thereafter? A Q Yes. Okay. And after he was dismissed, he was also
invited back to attend the following class? A Q Yes. Is that consistent with the way these things
formally happen; that people are invited back to a subsequent class? A Q No. And the subsequent class was just
coincidentally, maybe ironically shortly after anonymous complaints against Chief Nolan and he was suspended, correct, or placed on -A Q Yes. So he was taken out of the class. They were
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allowed to come back in even though they had inadequately performed in the first class, correct? A Q A Q Yes. Okay. Was that political?
I don't make those decisions. Okay. Do you know if they have any connections Aren't you Aren't you aware
with -- let's pick a name -- Mayor Perez? aware, sir, let's just cut to the chase.
that Felicia Graves and her father, former member of the fire department, are good friends with Mayor Perez? A Q I wasn't aware of that. What about Edsel Rodriguez? Does he have any
connection with Mayor Perez? A Q I believe he's acquainted with Mayor Perez, yes. And a third member of that class, Aida Ramos was
also invited back to the next class after being dismissed, correct? A Q Yes. So there's three members of the department who
were inadequate academically or physically and yet they were invited back to the next class? A Q Yes. Has that ever happened before to your knowledge
in the 13 years you've been in the department? A I can't recall that --
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Q A Q
Okay. -- that it happened. And let's just throw one more name out there. He also was written up for substandard
Ernesto Santiago.
performance and dismissed from the class, correct? A Q A Q Yes. And he was allowed to come back also? Yes, he was. And Aida Ramos and Ernesto Santiago also have
political connections in the town? A Q A Q I am not aware of it. You're aware of any connection to Mayor Perez? I am not aware. With regard to the investigation of Chief Nolan,
was the -- you said you did the preliminary investigations? A Q A Q Yes. And you recommended a formal investigation? Yes. Is that normally what happens with an Is there normally an investigation after
investigation?
you conduct it with regard to discipline? A Q A Yes. They do a formal.
Who does the formal? The chief will do it.
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To your knowledge did the chief do the formal
investigation in this case? A Q A This case? Yes. There was a meeting in his office when he had
corporation counsel there and he was conducting it. Q Isn't it true that after you had talked to --
maybe you don't know but if you don't state it and we'll go on -- isn't it true that the investigation was actually conducted by corporation counsel, by this gentleman here? A Q It was in the chief's office. It was in the chief's office. And do you know
of any other time in 13 years -- you and I have done a lot of disciplinary situations -- where the corporation counsel -MR. RAMOS: irrelevant. MR. FERGUSON: it. It's absolutely relevant. THE ARBITRATOR: No, it's not. I claim Objection. It's
It's part of my case. Let's finish this
line of questioning here and then we're going to meet outside. Go ahead. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q Do you know of any other time in 13 years, and I
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would venture to guess just from my recollection you and I have been involved in formal and informal investigations of firefighters a hundred times in the last 13 years, of those hundred, what other time other than Chief Nolan was the corporation counsel involved in what you term a formal investigation? A When Chief Nolan was disciplined back under We had -- I can't think of I believe you were
Chief Dobson's administration.
the lawyer's name now for the city. involved with that. Q
So other than Chief Nolan who at the time was a
lieutenant, right? A Q Yes. And there's been investigations in my tenure of
deputy chiefs, captains, lieutenants, many line firefighters, other than Chief Nolan, has any other investigation, formal or informal been conducted albeit under the auspices of a chief by a member of the corporation counsel? The answer is no, correct? A I am trying to recall if there's any others.
Because corporation counsel is involved with some of our disciplines, terminations. No, I don't recall. Q Not at the investigation stage?
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A Q A Q
I would agree with that. I am talking about the investigation. Yes. There's never been in the hundred-plus
investigations I have been involved in and you have been involved in many of them if not all of them, where the corporation counsel is involved. A Yes. MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR: Let's talk. (Short recess for counsel and the arbitrator to confer.) BY MR. FERGUSON: Q Moving back to the issue of safety, you stated I am going to move on. Off the record.
in previous testimony that deputy chief of training is assigned the safety officer's role in the department, correct? A Q A Yes. And what does he do as a safety officer? He responds to major incidents and he has the He can
ability to overrule the incident commander.
change, alter or completely stop any evolution going on at a fire scene in fear of safety of the firefighters or civilians.
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And that's to protect the safety and not just
the firefighters but the public, too? A Q Yes. And so it would be important for him as the
training chief to make certain that nobody gets out of the academy unless they can effectively perform the functions of a firefighter? A Q Yes. So you would agree with me that it's part of his
responsibility to wash out firefighters who are incapable of performing at least at a minimum level on the fire grounds? A Q A Q To recommend, yes. Right, the chief ultimately decides that? Yes. And is it true that normally the chief goes
along with what the training chief says with regard to the ability of the firefighters? A I would say after the chief looks into it, he
would make a decision. Q Other than these four people we have talked
about in testimony today, do you know of any other firefighters that were recommended for dismissal or ever reinstated? A I don't remember the names but some got hurt in
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a previous class and have gone back. Q But I am not talking about people who were hurt
or in fact there was one actually that was called to jury duty for a significant period of time? A Q Yes. I am talking about people who could not
physically or academically perform the functions of a firefighter. Do you know of any who were washed out for
those reasons directly related to the abilities of the functions of a firefighter who have ever been reinstated and put into a subsequent class? A Q No. Now, subsequent to Nolan's suspension while he
was still employed, there was another class, correct? A Q Yes. And five recruits quit or were dismissed from
that class, correct? A Q A Q I don't recall but we dismissed people, yes. Were any of them invited back? I don't recall. Okay. I don't think so.
Now, in your direct testimony you
testified that platoon leader Marlin Stevenson specifically brought up issues pertaining to safety during the investigation. A Yes. Do you recall that testimony?
He was concerned with it, yes.
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You stated that he was concerned with all the
towers they were doing, correct? A Q Yes. Is he one of the ones that said they ran 20
towers a day? A Q I can't recall. And you said that he specifically said to you it
was not safe, that recruits could become injured and not complete the training, is that correct? A Q Yes. So your testimony, just to be clear on the
record, is that former platoon leader Marlin Stevenson explicitly said he had the safety concerns of towers under the command of D.C. Nolan? A Q A Q Yes. And he brought that to your attention? Yes. Okay. MR. FERGUSON: questions of the witness. THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Ramos? MR. RAMOS: Yes. Thank you. I have no further
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. RAMOS: Q A BY MR. RAMOS: Q
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
Let's go to the issue of providing false Deputy Chief Nolan
statements during your investigation.
volunteered the information that salsa lessons were donated, correct? A Q A Q Yes, I believe so. He told you that information? I believe so, yes. That was a donation given -MR. FERGUSON: Salsa lessons or lesson? MR. RAMOS: Salsa lessons. I am going to object.
I believe it was one lesson. MR. RAMOS: Okay.
All right.
Did you specifically ask him about
salsa lesson, about the salsa lesson? A Q A Q No. This is something that he told you? I believe it had to do with the Big Climb, yes. Now, so you're telling us that he volunteered
information that a donation was given about salsa lesson, correct? A I believe so, yes.
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But when you specifically asked him about cash
donations, what did he say? A Q He said there was no cash donations. When you specifically asked him about Play
Stations, what did he say? A Q No Play Stations. He didn't volunteer any information about Play
Stations like he did with the salsa lesson? A Q That's correct. Now, raffle tickets, did he volunteer any
information about raffle tickets? A kind. Q Okay. Now I am going to -- now that your notes He said no raffle tickets or any tickets of any
are in evidence, I would like you to -- I am going to show you a page which unfortunately they're not numbered but it's the fifth page in. THE ARBITRATOR: Exhibit 2? MR. RAMOS: Yes. The witness has City This is City
THE ARBITRATOR: Exhibit 2. MR. FERGUSON: numbered. THE ARBITRATOR:
Mine are actually
Yeah, at the top
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left. MR. RAMOS: They don't follow. I agree some seem to
THE ARBITRATOR:
be numbered and some seem to not be numbered but you're saying five pages including the top sheet? MR. RAMOS: Yes. That would be a
MR. FERGUSON: non-numbered page. MR. RAMOS:
It says March 27, 2008. I am going to mark
THE ARBITRATOR:
the top of it with a 5 indicating it's the fifth page. MR. RAMOS: It's important because I
think that page is important and that's why I am asking. THE ARBITRATOR: BY MR. RAMOS: Q Assistant Chief Parker, what is that page? What You may proceed.
does that page show of your notes? A Q This is the interview with Deputy Chief Nolan. So would that contain the answers to the
questions you asked him? A Q Yes. Now, could you point, physically point us to
your notes as to the issue of raffle tickets and tell us
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what it says? A Down at the bottom, "No raffle tickets solicited
during recruit class and did not have any raffle tickets or any tickets of any kind." Q Did you make those notes during your interview
of Deputy Chief Nolan? A Q Yes. Now I am going to ask you the same issue with What did he Could
respect to the issue of Play Stations.
respond with respect to the issue of Play Stations? you help us with your handwriting? A games." Q Okay. "No Sony Play Stations or electronic video
Same question I am going to ask you about Is there any notation with respect to the
cash donations.
issue of cash donation? A Yes, Chief Nolan's reply did not ever say donate No cash to reduce towers.
cash, gifts to reduce towers. No one made cash donations. Q Okay.
Specifically, let's focus on that last
one that says No -- is that your underline? A Q A Q Yes. And then it says "No one made cash donations"? Right. Now you spoke with several -- you spoke with
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approximately 20 recruits.
Did you have recruits
specifically come and tell you that they brought cash donations? A Q Yes. Yes. Now, would it be fair to say that -- well,
isn't it true that not all of them made cash donations, correct? A Q A Q Correct. Only some of them? Yes. So in the back of this document that I am
showing you of your notes, you would have notes of each interview with each recruit, correct? A Q Yes. Okay. Now, just for example purposes, let's
look at -THE ARBITRATOR: record. (Off-the-record discussion.) THE ARBITRATOR: has now been numbered. City Exhibit No. 2 Let's go off the
The numbering that each side
has put including the arbitrator is put at the bottom right-hand corner is the official pagination and would be used as reference with witnesses as well as in the brief.
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Okay.
So Mr. Ramos, you wanted the
witness to take a look at City Exhibit 2, page -MR. RAMOS: Thirty-four. We were
looking at Marlin Stevenson. BY MR. RAMOS: Q Now, before I ask you, I believe is that correct
that that's the page of your interview of Marlin Stevenson, page 34? A Q Yes. Now, before I ask you, these recruits, they
narrated their own personal recollection of what transpired? A Q Yes. Okay. And in the case of Marlin Stevenson,
apparently you have somewhat of an independent recollection of what he said? A Q Yes. Do you find him to be credible under what he was
telling you? A Q Yes. And why would that be? What factors would you
take in determining that he was credible? A The way he answered the questions directly. He
had a lot of knowledge of what was being the platoon leader. He had knowledge of -- he's a close tie with
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Chief Nolan and his meetings. credible. Q
And he came across very
Now, did he narrate specifically what at first
he undertook to get cash donations, for example? A Q Yes. Now, based on your notes now that you have them,
could you tell us, what were those efforts that he described to you? A Solicit to sell raffle tickets, bring gifts for
an auction to reduce towers, Saint Patrick's Day parade $20 for tickets. Street function. Q To raise money. It was at the Arch
It's a restaurant. There's a
Now, can you look at the next?
reference to a day spa, $200.
What does that indicate?
Do you recollect what was that donation that you have there? A Q A spa, $200. Yes. What is it? He went in and solicited for donation for a day Salsa lesson. He brought in the day spa. I
believe Stevenson brought in salsa and Shapiro for Play Station, 10 or 20 dollars was donated. Q Okay. Now, is there any way based on your --
that Deputy Chief Nolan would not have any knowledge of this information that Marlin Stevenson is providing you?
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A Q A himself. Q
No.
He said it came from his squad meetings.
And who sat at those squad meetings? Deputy Chief Nolan and the squad leaders
So firefighter Stevenson recruit at the time
says that these items were discussed at these meetings, these issues? A Q Yes. Do you know if Deputy Chief Nolan rejected any
of these donations, didn't accept it? A Q I have no knowledge of it. Okay. But when you interviewed, for example --
when you interviewed the firefighters, did they narrate to you then bring into the station and giving it to the chief -- to the academy, I mean, not the station? A He said he brought the donations in. To give it
directly to the chief, I don't recall. Q Okay. All right. Now, I see -- now here it
says "No receipts" right under no receipts is -- page 35, we're on. What does it say right under no receipts? This
is again Marlin Stevenson. A "The squad leaders asked to sell and get gifts.
Squad leader and class addressed." Q And can you tell us what your recollection is -What does that mean?
"squad leader and class addressed."
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That the whole class was addressed to sell or
get gifts, sell tickets or get gifts. Q Okay. So that would put into context in
narrative form what you tried to do just by providing the chart you provided on page 37? A Q Yes. So isn't it fair to say that the narrative
recollection that recruits had was also taken into consideration in your recommendation to continue with the investigation? A Q A Yes. And why was that? There were so many recruits -- it was usually
when we have investigations like this, usually the person being investigated and the witnesses are pretty much on track. This is totally different. Chief Nolan had no
recollection and denied asking the recruits to sell tickets or collect any money. At their first few
interviews I think it was obvious that we had a difference of opinion on what was going on; and again, I thought there were just a couple of disgruntled recruits in the beginning but I believe we had enough information on this investigation for another hearing to be arranged so that Chief Nolan could answer these allegations again. Q Now, you are the person -- you testified that
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you're the person in charge of personnel matters on behalf of the chief of the department, correct? A Q Yes. And is it fair to say that whenever disciplinary
matters occur, you often consult with other departments on different issues? A I consult with corporation counsel and HR on Most of it is done in-house.
some of the issues. Q A Q
So you would contact my office, correct? Yes. And depending on the severity of the issue,
isn't that dependent on how severe the disciplinary issue involves? A Q Yes. Do you think providing false statements to a
superior is a fairly severe disciplinary matter? A Q Yes. What if that person is the third highest ranking
member of the department? A Q Very serious. Going again to the issue of false statements.
Attorney Ferguson very well pointed out how stringent requirements have to be to know that we get the utmost, the best people out there doing our work as firefighters, correct?
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A Q correct? A Q A Q
Yes. Because there's safety concerns involved,
Yes. Discipline is a necessity in this field? Yes. And wouldn't you say that being able to trust
the word of your commander one hundred percent is of utmost importance? A Q Yes. And based on your preliminary investigation,
were you concerned about the trust that the recruits, the new or new men and women coming in would have in the third highest ranking member of the department? A Q Yes. Okay. Now, let me take you back to -- I was I
looking through the notes and I think I messed them up. am trying to find where the, point out to the arbitrator where your notes start regarding -- because they're very lengthy. Each individual recruit. I believe it starts
somewhere around page -- I believe they start somewhere on page 10, is that correct? it's page 11. I think I am wrong. I think
Well, you help me out, please? THE ARBITRATOR: What are we
identifying?
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MR. RAMOS: the whole section.
I just want to identify
He's not going to testify in
detail but the whole section he testifies of his notes. THE ARBITRATOR: MR. RAMOS: Interviews?
Interviews, yes. Starts on 11. Is that
THE WITNESS:
MR. RAMOS:
Yes.
So hopefully in
deliberations or in discussions in brief, we know what those notes are. THE ARBITRATOR: Fair enough.
Starts on 11 and goes to 36 for the discussion.
This also included members of the training division and our EAP, employee assistance person, Ms. Fay Soltys also, so you have got the 19 recruits, a cadet and members of the training division and Ms. Fay Soltys was in that investigation. BY MR. RAMOS: Q A Q A Fay Soltys is the EAP? Yes. She's retired now.
What was the relevance of her being present? She was on the panel with the chief and myself.
She was the -- she was keeping us in line of who was coming in to be interviewed. She was our administrator at
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the panel.
She didn't ask any questions.
She did the
introductions. Q Now, you testified that the recruits tell you What happened Do you know
that someone requested -- did I hear right? with the Wii?
Not the Play Station, the Wii.
what happened, who got it? A No. It was brought up -- to be honest with you, It was brought up by a
I didn't even know what a Wii was.
recruit early on saying it was a Wii and he explained to me what it was. Q And when you asked about electronic games to
Deputy Chief Nolan, did he have any acknowledgment of the purchase of the Wii? A Q No Play Stations or electronic games. Did he tell you, "I don't know what a Play Did he say, "Explain to
Station is," Deputy Chief Nolan?
me what you mean by Play Station"? A Q I don't believe so, no. Now, at this point in your investigation, did
you try to get a handle on exactly how many towers were issued? Was that something that you tried to get a
definitive number? A them. Q But you didn't try to gather? It was all over. Fifty, 100, 200 on some of
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A other. Q
I didn't compare the testimonies with each
But they were numbers like I think in your
report going back to C-4, you quoted, you included some quotes that indicated that towers were issued in excess of of ten towers, is that correct? A Q If that's what it says there, yes. Now, there's, Attorney Ferguson mentioned that
there are a number of charities that from time to time the city has somehow been involved or city employees have been involved. Is that openly acknowledged that those
donations are sought and is that something that's somehow kept from people knowing about this? A Q A Q Yes. The city charities, yes.
So we all know about it, correct? Yes. In the case of the charities that, and the
donations, are submitted in a form -A Q A Q A Q Yes. -- to a particular charity? Yes. In a formal way? Yes. Now, at that point in your investigation, I
guess you were -- were you -- did you go as far as to
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determine whether donations were accepted by Deputy Chief Nolan? A Q They were accepted, yes. Okay. Now, changing the line of questioning,
you stated quite openly that you had a difference of opinion on how you would have handled Felicia Graves, her situation with the department, correct? A Q Yes. You would defer from the chief, you have a
different opinion from the chief? A Q Yes. And you are the assistant chief for the
department, correct? A Q Yes. And since this Felicia Graves situation
occurred, it's been a number of years now, correct, maybe two years? A Q Yes. Okay. Have you suffered or received any
retaliation for deferring from the chief, having an opinion that's contrary to the chief with respect to Felicia Graves? A Q No. Have you sensed any hostility from city hall,
meaning the mayor or anyone under him for your difference
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of opinion in the case of Felicia Graves? A Q No. Do you think that partisan politics had anything
to do with the Felicia Graves decision? A Q The decision to remove her from the class? Well, strike that. Has anyone called you or has anyone called you personally or let you know that she, they deferred with you and that they're not happy with your recommendation? A Q No. Do you know of anyone that's taken adverse
action against Deputy Chief Milner who also witnessed some of this? A No, I know of no action. MR. RAMOS: I have nothing further. Give us a couple
MR. FERGUSON: minutes. THE ARBITRATOR: (Short recess.) MR. FERGUSON: questions of the witness. THE ARBITRATOR:
Off the record.
I have no further
Thank you.
(Witness excused.) MR. RAMOS: I am ready to continue
with the chief but I need a few minutes to talk to
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him, please. THE ARBITRATOR: it now? MR. RAMOS: It's 11:30. Tell me honestly what Okay. What time is
THE ARBITRATOR:
you really -- I don't mean to suggest you wouldn't tell me honestly, but what's a responsible amount of time here because if somebody wants to get a snack bar or something like that, I'd rather use the time in between now than do you need 10 minutes, 15, 10 minutes, 20. MR. RAMOS: About 20 to 25. Why don't we
THE ARBITRATOR:
reconvene at noon and then if somebody wants to go down and get a hamburger. (A recess was taken at 11:31 a.m. and the hearing resumed at 12:10 a.m.)
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C H A R L E S
A L L E N
T E A L E ,
called as a witness by the City, having been first duly sworn by the Arbitrator, was examined, and testified on his oath as follows:
THE ARBITRATOR:
If you would state
your name for the the record, please. A Charles Allen Teale, Sr. THE ARBITRATOR: And what position,
just official for the record, do you hold? A Chief of the Hartford Fire Department. THE ARBITRATOR: held that position? A Ten years as of March 26, 2010. THE ARBITRATOR: And were you employed And how long have you
by the City of Hartford prior to that time? A Yes. I have been. THE ARBITRATOR: A How long overall?
Restate the question, please. THE ARBITRATOR: How long have you
held a position with the City of Hartford? A Twenty-eight years. THE ARBITRATOR: with the fire department? And has that all been
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Yes. THE ARBITRATOR: And prior to being
chief, what position did you hold? A I was the deputy chief of training. THE ARBITRATOR: you hold that position? A Approximately four years. THE ARBITRATOR: And if you could just And for how long did
go back prior to that, what position did you hold? A Captain of training. THE ARBITRATOR: And do you recall
approximately how long you held that position? A Two years. THE ARBITRATOR: us back. A I served in the suppression division as a And just keep taking
lieutenant prior to that for a period of approximately six months. Prior to that I was a lieutenant in the training Prior to that I was a
division for a year and a half.
lieutenant in the suppression division for approximately one year. And prior to that I was a firefighter in the
suppression division for five years. THE ARBITRATOR: Your witness. Thank you.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. RAMOS: Q
DIRECT EXAMINATION
Good afternoon, Chief Teale.
I am going to ask
you a little bit to describe.
I hear from your testimony
today right now that you have quite a bit of experience in the training division, is that correct? A Q That's true. And that would be approximately 13 years of
experience more or less in the training division or more than that. A No, it was actually less than that. The figures
I gave were approximations. Q
It was more like ten years.
And maybe my notes are mistaken. So you worked in the fire academy on different,
or the training division in different capacities, correct? A Q That's correct. Now, can you give us based on that knowledge and
you rose up to be deputy chief of training? A Q That's correct. Not all fire chiefs have necessarily come from
that background, correct, from the training division? A Q I don't believe anyone has. But in your case you are, so could you describe
for us, because it's an issue today, it's a termination of a deputy chief of training. Could you describe for us
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based on your knowledge as chief and as a former deputy chief of training of the duties of that position with respect specifically -- I'll ask you to explain with respect to the recruits at the academy? A Well, under general direction, you administer a And in
program for the training of fire recruits.
addition to that responsibility, you administer a program that's designed to meet various standards that the suppression division in particular has to meet with regard to training purposes. Q But with respect to the training of recruits,
what duties or powers does the deputy chief of training have with respect to the dismissal of recruits? A Well, the deputy chief of training cannot
dismiss a recruit but the deputy chief of training can recommend the dismissal of a recruit. Q A Okay. And normally that's taken into consideration by
the person who has the authority which is the director of human resources, to dismiss. Q Okay. Now, describe briefly for us what the
training program is for a new recruit that comes into our academy? A Well, the -- there are various standards in
particular to the National Fire Protection Associations,
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1001, which is the professional standard for firefighters, dictates what training is necessary. There are other
standards that must be adhered to with regard to hazardous material training. I believe it's OSHA regulations
29 CFR 2910.130 that takes also into consideration confined space rescue. the fire department now. We do have EMS responsibility in We did not when I was deputy
chief of training or at least to the extent so there are standards related to EMS response that must be taken into consideration. There are various standards and various
organizations that have some say as to what must be taught in the training academy. Q A Q And how long is the program? A minimum of 14 weeks. Is it fair to say -- I just want to move on. Is it fair to say it's a fairly rigorous training that a recruit goes through? A It is very rigorous. It used to be called drill
school because the information is supposed to be drilled into a portion of the brain so that when you have to act under stressful life-threatening circumstances, the information is readily available and you can act according to your training. Q generally? And how long are the days of training,
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A five p.m. Q
Generally from eight o'clock -- eight a.m. until
And do you know if they're required to study at
night for a test too? A Q There's nothing but studying. So after you finish a long day, a recruit
finishes a long day of exercises and lectures, he goes and studies at home? A He or she should be studying all the time. You
must understand, of course, that the information, it must be learned, understood and retained. It's not just
learned, understood and retained, it must be implemented, utilized under life-threatening conditions. Knowing the
information can be a difference between life or death for a citizen or for the recruit who will become a firefighter. Q Thank you. I think we covered some of these So I'll ask
areas earlier so I don't want to repeat them.
you to explain briefly, what does it mean -- in a different area -- what does it mean to be the safety officer for the department? A Well, the safety officer, commonly referred to
as the incident safety officer, is the person responsible more so than anyone else for the safety on the fire ground. In the Hartford Fire Department, typically the
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safety officer is utilized on the fire ground of a multiple alarm fire in the Hartford Fire Department to make an evaluation of various things that could affect the safety of a firefighter. For example, just for example,
the potential of a building to collapse, the proper wearing of personal protective equipment by the firefighters, whether or not actually firefighters should be in a particular area. The safety officer has, because
of rank and because of position on the fire ground as safety officer, has the ability to put a stop to an evolution if the safety officer feels as if the evolution will result in serious injury or death. Q So if a second alarm fire or higher breaks out
anywhere within the City of Hartford, is it fair to say that that safety officer will have to be at the scene? A Q A Q Yes. So at any time? Yes. Somewhat to oversee in safety matters the
companies involved with fighting that fire? A Q Absolutely. Okay. So, and in the City of Hartford, who is
the safety officer? A Q That would be the deputy chief of training. And you've held that position or that
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designation to us, deputy chief of training? A Q Yes, I have. And Deputy Chief Nolan as deputy chief of
training had that designation also, correct? A Q That's correct. Thank you very much. Let's move on now.
Did there come a time to your attention when there were allegations regarding Deputy Chief Nolan regarding the training academy? A Q Yes. What were you made aware of when you heard about
this allegations? A Initially, the allegations were that the
recruits were being asked to do things physically that they should not be asked to do. Recruits have to take a
strength and ability test called the CPAT prior to becoming recruits. Therefore, while going through
training it isn't necessary to take a test to become firefighters. They have already taken the test. And if
they are recruits they have already passed the test, so the concern that was brought to my attention was excessive physical training. I looked into the matter through the
assistant chief of operations and the assistant chief of personnel and labor relations and came to realize that there was a physical or strength and agility test being
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planned for the recruits and I ordered that the test be stopped; that it not be used. Q Now, later on did it come to your attention that
a complaint had been filed by the -- by Local 760 Firefighters Union? A Q Yes. Okay. That was sometime afterwards. And what was -- what did you do in
response to that complaint? A I directed the assistant chief of personnel and
labor relations to conduct a preliminary investigation into the matter. Q A Q And who would that be? Assistant Chief Michael Parker. Were there any others besides that brought by
Local 760, were there any other complaints that you were aware of that were brought to the department's attention? A Q There were many. Okay. There were several.
And so did Chief Parker commence an
investigation regarding the allegations? A Q Yes, he did. And do you know what Assistant Chief Parker did
to conduct that investigation, what steps did he take? A Initially he notified the deputy chief of
training to come in and answer questions related to his conduct during that recruit class in question.
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Q A Q A
Do you know what those questions pertained to? Yes. Could you explain? They were questions related to the use of towers There were
for punishment, an excessive number of towers.
questions related to receiving money, the deputy chief of training receiving money from recruits in exchange for a reduction of the towers. an exchange of gifts. There was questions related to
When the recruits brought in gifts, There were several
the towers would be reduced. questions. Q
There were many, many questions. Okay. And again, I think I asked you if Chief
Parker conducted an investigation? A Q Yes. And did he forward to you any findings, any
document with his findings of fact of what he found out during that investigation? A Q Yes, he did. And I am going to show you City 4. Do you recognize that document? A Q A Yes, I do. What is it? This appears to be the initial document that was
sent to my attention from Assistant Chief Parker regarding his preliminary investigation.
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Okay.
Thank you.
Now, did you, after reading this document, did you have any concerns regarding Chief Parker's findings? A Yes, I did, and primarily the concern I had was
the information that was being presented by the recruits seemed to be in such abundance and in unison that I thought there was conspiracy against the deputy chief of training. Q A What do you mean by that? I thought they sat down and said, Let's say
something bad about the deputy chief of training and if we say the same thing, it will get him in trouble. Q And did you -- do you have any other concerns
regarding Assistant Chief Parker's report? A Well, the primary concern that I did have was if
this was some form of conspiracy, the director of human resources should be made aware of it and because it would, should they all be lying in essence, the recruits, it would mean that it would be necessary to terminate them. They were at-will employees. I didn't believe the I just did
allegations to be true at that point in time. not know if they were true. Q
So at that point, what steps did you take to try
to determine whether this allegation or this statement made by the recruits were true or not? What did you do?
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I felt it was necessary to conduct an
investigation utilizing the assistance of human resources and corporation counsel. Q And describe what the investigation consisted
We brought in the recruits, then probationary
firefighters and we brought in the training officers and questioned them regarding this matter. Q Union? A Q Union? A To the best of my recollection, the Union Yes. Who were present during this meeting from the Was the Union present, representatives from the
president was present, Vince Fusco. Q A Do you know if Scott Brady was present? I believe Scott Brady was present but I am just
not certain. Q recruit? A Q Yes. You brought each one of them one-by-one and So you brought in each probationary former
spoke with them one-by-one? A Q Yes, I did. And as they came in -- could you again tell us
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who was present at the meeting specifically? A To the best of my recollection there was Union
president, Scott Brady, Deb Collins-Carabillo, and corp counsel, yourself. Q And when they completed -- who asked the
questions of the recruits? A I asked some of the questions and also corp
counsel asked some of the questions. Q And when they completed answering your question
or my questions, what did we -- did we do anything else to secure their testimony? A Eventually it was necessary to obtain affidavits
from each person that testified including some of the training officers. Q Now, did you specifically ask, during that
investigation, did you specifically ask this probationary firefighters, former recruits now about allegations that Play Stations were brought in by some of them during their time in the training academy? A Q Yes. And what information did you elicit from that,
did you obtain in general terms? A They did indicate that the Play Stations were
brought in, in an attempt at reducing the number of towers that they were receiving for punishment.
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Okay.
And was this corroborated by more than
one of them? A Q tickets? A Q Yes. And what did they say or did they confirm or Yes, it was. Now, did you ask them questions regarding raffle
deny that there were raffle tickets being sold? A They confirmed that raffle tickets had been sold
and the more raffle tickets they sold, the less towers they would have to run. There was a system, a formula
that they shared that actually showed that the more raffle tickets they brought in, the fewer towers they would have to run. Q Now, did you ask, and again, we have, the city
has kept a copy of the affidavit signed by these individuals, correct? A Q Yes. I am asking you if you asked them, did you -- my
next question is, did you also ask them whether they had provided donations in cash to Deputy Chief Nolan? A Yes. I do recall asking that question and they Sometimes it was
did indicate that they brought in cash. their own money.
Sometimes it was money from relatives
but they did bring in cash.
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I am going to ask you more specifically each one
of these questions but let's move on. Now, did you ask them specifically whether there was an understanding between them and Deputy Chief Nolan that towers would be reduced if they brought in these gifts or donations? A Yes, there was an understanding. In fact, there
was a formula that was utilized besides what it was, it was $100 equals ten towers, something to that effect. Q Do you know how the recruits became aware of
this formula? A They were approached during roll call. They
were also approached -- he would meet with these squad leaders, I believe they were referred to as. He would
meet with them periodically and I think there were four of them, and through them he would disseminate information also. Q Okay. Now, let's go specifically to some of the
issues with each one of these four areas. I think we should ask you -- the Play Stations. Did the recruits, did they mention how they -- not all of them bought Play Stations, correct? A That's correct. MR. FERGUSON: not to lead the witness. I am going to ask him
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THE ARBITRATOR:
Sustained.
How many Play Stations were provided by the
recruits, do you recall? A Q I recall two. Now, how did it come to be that everyone became
aware that these two Play Stations were donated? A An announcement was made according to the
probationary firefighters that the Play Stations were brought in and as a result of the Play Stations being brought in, towers would be reduced. This is what a
probationary firefighter said took place during roll call, so it was a means by which the person who brought in the Play Station would be rewarded for their efforts and the entire class would know that the reduction in towers was one of the gifts that was brought in. Q A Q And who made this announcement? The deputy chief of training. Now, with respect to the raffle tickets, did
they say in what context these raffle tickets were offered and where in the academy? A The raffle tickets went to the various squad
leaders and the squad leaders gave the raffle tickets to the members of the recruit class and the members of the recruit class went out into the community. Sometimes they
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went to businesses.
Sometimes they went to relatives.
Sometime they bought them themselves but in any event they would sell the tickets or buy the tickets and bring the money back to the deputy chief of training. Q So they would bring it back to the deputy chief
of training, but who gave it to them -- did you determine who gave it to them in the first place? A Q A leaders. Q A Q A Who gave them to the squad leaders? The deputy chief of training. And then the squad leaders went on to sell them? Well, squad leaders did sell them but also the Sometimes they Gave them the tickets in the first place? Yes. It seems as though it went through the squad
rest of the recruit class sold them, too. bought them themselves. Q
Now, during those interviews, what did you learn
regarding the punishments posted by Deputy Chief Nolan? A The punishments were extreme and excessive. As
a training officer I have run towers with recruit classes, as many as six, and I think that's as much as I could do. But there were times when some of the recruits could not run fast enough to meet with the approval of the deputy chief of training and because they ran too slow the entire
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class would get 75 towers.
Now, to give you an idea of They
what that consists of, each tower is six stories. could not physically run that many towers.
I don't know
if anyone can, so in order to offset the number of towers, they had to bring in money or gifts. That was the system
that was established according to the recruits and some of the training officers. Q Okay. Now, let's go back and clarify some of
these things. You say they didn't run fast enough? A Q done? A That's correct. Can you explain in what context was this run What is this that you're referring to? At the end of the day, the recruits and the
deputy chief of training would go on a run and on the way back, if he passed any of the recruits, there would be towers assigned to the entire recruit class. One recruit
in particular, Ms. Felicia Graves, and actually second recruit, Mr. Salestino Jimenez often could not run fast enough to keep up with the deputy chief of training, and when they could not run fast enough the entire recruits would get more towers. One time they were assigned 150
towers because he passed both, Salestino Jimenez and Felicia Graves. Q So you say you spoke with the recruits. Were
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you able to corroborate the specific testimony with anyone other than a recruit? A that, yes. Q I'll ask you, did you ask this question of any With the training officers I was able to do
of the lieutenants at the academy? A Q A Q that be? A Q I believe it was Michael Patterson. Did he specifically -- was asked specifically Yes, I did. And did you obtain an affidavit from him? Yes, I do recall receiving at least one. And who would that be, what lieutenant would
about assigning 75 towers to Felicia Graves because you specifically asked him about that? A Q That I just don't recall. Okay. Well, now, also going back to the issue
of the run, this daily run, as a former deputy chief of training and someone with experience in the academy, what's the purpose or the importance of this run within the whole context of the training? A To make certain that the recruits stay in good
physical condition, particularly with regard to their cardiovascular ability. that is demanding. They're going into a profession
They're going to have to be concerned
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about not only exerting themselves but doing so while wearing turnout gear and in an extreme heat environment and under a very stressful set of circumstances, so we do engage or have engaged in physical training in making an attempt to be certain that they remain in good shape. Once again, they've proven they do the job through CPAT. It's not an evaluation. It's just so when they get on the
line, they can handle the rigors of firefighting. Q So how important is the speed factor of this
daily run in your opinion? A There is no criteria that I know of that can be
utilized to determine how fast a recruit can or should run. Q Because just to give you an example, in the case
of other professions like police, running within a certain speed is of utmost importance. training? A Not in fire training but I believe with the Is that the case in fire
police, you're referring to the evaluation process? Q A training. Right. Necessary to become -- that's not during That's during the test necessary to become a
police officer, so there is a criteria, physical criteria for becoming a firefighter but it isn't during the training process. It's during the evaluation process.
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Q A Q
Prior to entering the academy? Correct. So having explained that, the role that running
serves and the training of a firefighter, what is your opinion of the punishments being imposed, that were being imposed by Deputy Chief Nolan at this time? A Unnecessary, ineffective, possibly likely to
cause injury; and when utilized in conjunction with an exchange for money and gifts, unacceptable and unconscionable. Q All right. Now, I am going to backtrack a
little bit with respect to again the issue of money. Do you have, without looking at the affidavits that we took down in your notes, do you have any recollection of some of the amounts and some of the efforts, some of the amounts collected by some of the recruits? A I believe one recruit in particular brought in Precise amounts I don't
approximately $200, Fred Nelson. recall. Q
Do you happen to know Fred Nelson prior to
becoming a firefighter? A Yes. He was a cadet prior to becoming a
firefighter and explorer prior to that. Q Now, can you briefly tell us what is the
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explorer program? A They are inner-city youth who have expressed an
interest in becoming firefighters but not necessarily. Sometimes they're just interested in being part of an organization, the Explorers Post is like a boy scout troop. Q So in that capacity you met Fred Nelson as a
young explorer? A Q That's correct. Do you happen to know his upbringing and his
family a little bit? MR. FERGUSON: BY MR. RAMOS: Q A Q from? A Q Oh, he said he got it from his parents. Okay. Do you happen to know -- do you feel that How much money did Fred Nelson bring in? To the best of my recollection $200. Did he tell you where he brought that money Relevance?
was -- do you happen to know based on your, on your knowing him whether or not his parents were in a position to make that kind of contribution. MR. FERGUSON: What's the relevance? THE ARBITRATOR: Sustained. I am going to object.
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As I indicated to both of you off the record earlier, I think we know what the focal point of this case is and we should stick to it. BY MR. RAMOS: Q What did you ascertain with respect to going to
area -- I think you mentioned that -- I don't know if you mentioned about the issue of going to area businesses and seeking donations. A What did you ascertain?
The leader of the recruit class,
Marlin Stevenson, I recall did relay that he went to local businesses to sell raffle tickets. whatever these tickets were. Not raffle tickets,
But in any event, he went to
different businesses in his uniform trying to sell tickets when he should have been studying. He would take the
money and he would turn the money over to the deputy chief of training. He was not the only person who did that.
There were several members of the recruit class who in addition to going to their family members, went to area businesses and gave the impression that it was something related to a fire department function of which we knew nothing about whatsoever. in uniform. And once again, they did this
Fred Nelson in particular as I recall, his
family lived on Garden Street, one of the poorest neighborhoods in the state, and he got $200 from them. know they didn't have money for this purpose but he got I
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that money from them and he turned that over, too. Q Now, did you ask the recruits why they were Did you ask them
seeking these donations or these gifts? that? A Q Yes, I did.
Can you tell us, did you get -- what kind of
responses did they give you? A Many of them were concerned about the direct
effect of not bringing in the money, meaning that they would have to run more towers if they didn't. They were
concerned about running more towers because they thought they would get injured. And other people expressed
concern over the fact that they knew the deputy chief of training's opinion of them as recruits would be used to determine whether or not they could become firefighters. They were very, very concerned, in essence, with losing their jobs if they didn't please him. Q Did some of them say, was there something -- a Did they say it was mandatory or
mandatory thing? voluntary? A
They didn't indicate it was mandatory but if
they didn't do it, they knew they would have to run their tower and they also knew it was possible they could lose their jobs. And once again they were concerned about If you get injured,
getting injured running those towers.
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you can get wiped out of the training academy and you won't become a firefighter, at least not that time around. Q Now, so when you completed this interview
process with all the recruits with your investigation, what did you do then? A training. Q A Q terms? A That he was to come in and answer to charges Okay. Yes. Okay. And what did you state to him in general Did you do so in writing? What was your next step?
I scheduled to bring in the deputy chief of
related to his conduct as a deputy chief of training during that recruit class. Q Okay. I am going to show you a document. THE ARBITRATOR: BY MR. RAMOS: Q Chief Teale, do you recognize this document I City 5.
just showed you? A Q A Yes, I do. And what is this? This is the letter telling him to come in for
the Laudermill hearing. Q Is this the letter you referred to now I believe
you said the charges, you scheduled a meeting with him?
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A Q A Q office? A Q
Yes. So that was the Laudermill? Yes. And this is how you notified him to come to your
That's correct. Okay. Now, I am going to direct your
attention -MR. FERGUSON: MR. RAMOS: Are you offering that?
Yes, I offer it. No. City 5 is received,
MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR:
November 19, 2008, letter to Deputy Fire Chief Nolan from Fire Chief Teale. (City Exhibit 5: evidence - described in index.) BY MR. RAMOS: Q A What were the charges? Abuse of authority, providing false statement to Received in
superior, jeopardizing the health and safety of firefighter recruits, misuse and failure to abide by direct warning you not to attend department activities. Q Now, you say that on the first sentence of the
Laudermill letter you indicate that on April 21 Deputy Chief Nolan had been placed on administrative leave?
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A Q A Q A
That's correct. And did you notify so in writing back then? Yes. Take a minute. (Pause.) I just have to get my glasses. THE ARBITRATOR: Let's move it along
here. Any objection to City 6? MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR: No. City 6 is received:
April 26, 2008, letter from Deputy Fire Chief Nolan to Chief Teale placing the grievant on administrative leave starting month, April 21, 2008. (City Exhibit 6: evidence - described in index.) THE ARBITRATOR: of -BY MR. RAMOS: Q So you had placed -- Deputy Chief Nolan had been If that takes care Received in
on administrative leave during the period of time you were interviewing the recruits and conducting this investigation, correct? A Q That's correct. Is there any instructions that you gave Deputy
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Chief Nolan when you placed him on administrative leave? A Q A Yes, there were. Can you tell us what that is? That he wasn't to visit any fire department
facilities or contact any employees in the fire department unless receiving permission from me; and if he needed to access his office or personal effects, that he had to contact me to make the necessary arrangements. And also
that he had to be available during city hours during his regular work schedule and that he had to provide me with a telephone number that he could be reached at. Q Okay. So when you drafted the charges, were
there any charges filed for any violation of those instructions? A Q I'm sorry. Would you repeat that, please?
In your letter charging him in the Laudermill
letter explaining his charges, were there any charges related to violations of the orders you gave him when you placed him on administrative leave? A Q A Yes, there were. And what was that charge about? Well, in particular I recall there was, he
disobeyed a direct order not to contact any employees in the fire department unless he had permission from me. Q And did you have information that he had
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contacted department employees at that time? A So it appeared. I did see him interacting with In particular at the
members of the department.
graduation ceremony of the recruit class that graduated on August 8, 2008, he attended the graduation ceremony among other things. MR. FERGUSON: that? A 8/8/08. MR. FERGUSON: BY MR. RAMOS: Q So that was one of the charges listed in your Thank you. What was the date of
Laudermill letter? A Q That's correct. In addition to all the charges provided on the
second page, top of the second page, correct? A Q That's correct, yes. Now, I am going to direct your attention to the
issue of false statements, providing false statements to the superior. What were the areas that Deputy Chief Nolan
was accused of providing false statements to Deputy Chief Parker? A You mentioned area. That there were no raffle tickets of any kind,
no Play Station or electronic games were exchanged, no money exchanged. There may have been some others but
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that's what stands out most. Q Was there the issue of -MR. FERGUSON: He's reading them. issues. I am going to object.
He can ask if there's any other
He said he's already testified what he
remembers. THE ARBITRATOR: MR. RAMOS: BY MR. RAMOS: Q I am going to move on to the other charge of Sustained.
I will rephrase.
abuse of authority. What were the -- where were the areas of concern with respect to that charge? A I felt it was an abuse of authority to have the
recruits after assigning them an unacceptable number of towers per infraction to tell them that they can reduce the number of towers by giving him money and gifts. thought that was direct abuse of authority. Q Okay. So did you conduct a Laudermill hearing I
regarding these charges? A Q Yes, I did. During the hearing, did you specifically ask
Deputy Chief Nolan whether he sold raffle tickets? A Q Yes, I did. And what did he tell you in response to your
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question? A He said that, something comparable to the effect
that "At first I did not remember having any raffle tickets but now that I think about it, I did have raffle tickets to sell." Q And did you find that explanation credible in
light of your -- of all the evidence that was before you? A No, I did not, because it was at least ten
months prior to my asking him the question that he was asked the question by Chief Parker. He could not remember
having raffle tickets when he talked to Chief Parker, which is why he said no, apparently, but he said no, he didn't have raffle tickets but now all of a sudden he could remember he had raffle tickets. answer acceptable. Q Now, did you ask whether he obtained Play I didn't find the
Stations from the recruits? A He said that he didn't know what a Play Station
was, as I recall. Q Stations? A I just remember him saying he didn't know what a Did he say anything further regarding Play
Play Station was. Q And did you find that explanation in response to
the charge of providing a false statement with respect to
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the issue of Play Stations, did you find that was a truthful answer? A No, I did not. The answer he gave to Chief If
Parker was no, he did not receive any Play Stations. he didn't know what a Play Station was, how could he
answer no to the question when Chief Parker asked him the question? He would have said, "I didn't know what a Play
Station is," then so no, I didn't find that acceptable. Q What about with respect to the testimony
provided by the recruits to you in their interviews? Would that shed any light as to whether he was telling the truth or not? MR. FERGUSON: about what? MR. RAMOS: Okay. Rephrase the Object. Vague. Truth
THE ARBITRATOR: question. BY MR. RAMOS: Q All right.
The recruits came to you and
described the form in which they donated Play Stations, correct? A Q That's correct. I think you testified that it's already in
testimony that announcements were made by Deputy Chief Nolan regarding the receipt of a Play Station, correct?
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That is correct according to what the
probationary firefighters said. Q Now, that testimony, how do you reconcile the
testimony of the recruits describing how Deputy Chief Nolan announced the receipt of the Play Station? How do
you reconcile that with the fact that he didn't know what a Play Station is? A truthful. I couldn't understand how it could have been The recruits answered the questions with regard
to gifts and money in a way that made you think that they didn't know there was something wrong going on. It's as
if they thought it was accepted practice and a policy of the Hartford Fire Department. So they simply provided the
Play Station and the money and any other gifts that they could, thinking that it was just the right thing to do which it obviously is not, especially in exchange for reduction in towers. THE ARBITRATOR: I just want to make
sure I understand the last -- the recruits thought it was proper -A No, they answered the questions in such a way to
make you think they didn't know it was improper for them to have to reduce the number of towers by giving them money. THE ARBITRATOR: I just want to make
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sure.
In other words, I want to understand what When you asked the recruits the
you're saying. question. A Yes.
THE ARBITRATOR:
The response you got
from the recruits lead you to the conclusion that the recruits believed that this was sort of common practice and an appropriate practice in the Hartford Fire Department to bring these items in to work with? A That's what it appeared. They thought this was
what was required of them. honestly.
They discussed it openly and
The day before graduation they were rehearsing When they were in line
for their graduation ceremony.
practicing for graduation, they were collecting money to give to Chief Nolan. It was that commonplace. THE ARBITRATOR: the right thing to do? A They thought it was. Apparently they were They thought it was
convinced of it. BY MR. RAMOS: Q Now, let's go to the issue of money. Did you
ask in your Laudermill hearing with Chief Nolan, whether he obtained money, received cash donations, I am going to say cash donations from the recruits? A He did say he did receive cash donations but not
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to exceed a concern amount. total. Q
I believe he said it was $200
Well, you're testifying, and did you find that
answer to be truthful? A I did not because based upon what the recruits
told me, the amount of money that was brought in far exceeded $200. I couldn't tell if it was less than $2,000
and I simply could not determine exactly how much money was exchanged. Q money? A Q Yes, he did. Did you find that based on that testimony that But he did admit in the Laudermill taking some
he told the truth to Chief Parker with respect to the question as to whether he received cash donations? A He lied to Chief Parker but he told me the He did receive money but
partial truth about the money.
he indicated it wasn't much money. Q So you're telling me you believe him to have
lied to Chief Parker and then to you again? A He did lie to Chief Parker but once again he
told me that he did receive some money but he indicated how much money he received which was less than the amount he obviously received. individual. He received at least $200 from one
The rest of the recruit class also tried to
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contribute money. Q And did those recruits state the approximate
amounts or the amounts that they donated in their affidavits? A Yes, but only approximate amounts. No one
seemed to keep any receipts. Q A Q And was that a concern? A great concern. Now, with respect to the issue of lying, I want Did there come a time when
to ask you one more question.
you tried to ascertain how many towers -- during the Laudermill, you tried to ascertain how many towers was Deputy Chief Nolan giving as punishments? A Q A Yes, I did. And what did you ask Deputy Chief Nolan? How many towers did he assign to the recruits
for infraction, and I recall him saying, "I doubt 75; ten tops," is what he indicated. Q Did you ask him specific -- could you describe
for us exactly what questions -- how you phrased your question to him with respect to the issue of the towers? A I simply asked him how many towers did you
assign at one time to the recruits per infraction and he indicated ten tops. Q Did you ask any follow-up questions?
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I asked him if he at one time assigned to the
recruit class 75 towers, because one of the recruits could not run fast enough and he said, "I doubt 75 towers." That's the answer I got. "I doubt 75." Q A It wasn't a very clear answer.
He said, "Ten, tops."
Did you find that answer truthful? No, because there were too many of the recruits
that attested to the fact that there were many, many more towers than ten they were assigned at one time; and at the end of the day, sometimes the training officers would be assigned to watch recruits as they ran off some of their towers. Q Now, let's go to the issue of the charge of
violating your order not to contact members of the department. Did you ask Deputy Chief Nolan about that
charge, whether that was indeed the case? A I did ask him about interacting with members of
the department and he said that he didn't think it was a reasonable order for me to tell him not to have contact with members of the department. He did indicate that he
had relatives on the job that were -- he could contact but this wasn't about his relatives. He attended several
functions of the Hartford Fire Department and interacted with many more people than just his relatives. he interacted with people who were part of the In fact,
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investigation and that was a grave concern. Q Now, when you say of grave concern, could you
explain why? A The reason why he was ordered not to interact
with members of the department so that an investigation could be conducted without people who were being questioned during the investigation interacting with the deputy chief of training. That means that when we, I
brought in some of the members of the department that were in the training division working as instructors, they had interacted with the deputy chief of training. know what conversations took place. Q You stated -- what was the event that you I don't
mentioned that he had attended? A That was just one in particular. I believe
there were several but I witnessed one event, the graduation ceremony of August 8, 2008. And also he
attended the September 11 observance ceremony that we had at the Old State House on September 11. He did send me an
e-mail late the prior evening asking if he could attend but I never gave him permission to do so; and once again, that e-mail was sent late the previous evening which I could not pick up the following day after the September 11 ceremony. Q But as far as the graduation ceremony, did he
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ask you in any way to, contact you to go to graduation? A Q Not at all. Graduation ceremony, does it involve people that
he would normally work with as deputy fire chief? A Q correct? A You're going to have many of the instructors who Absolutely. Deputy chief of training.
It's his division's activity for the most part,
were working in the recruit class prior to the one that graduated on August 8 of 2008. Q And some of those instructors you interviewed,
did you interview for your investigation, correct? A Q Yes, I did. Now, with respect there was another charge I Did you make a
believe of misuse of a city vehicle. finding with respect to that issue? A
I could not determine that there was a misuse of I
the department vehicle by the deputy chief of training.
did look into the matter and just could not conclude that there was an abuse of the vehicle. During the time period
in question, the vehicle was assigned to other people. It's possible that someone else could have run up the mileage on the vehicle, and the deputy chief of training did indicate that was the case. Q So that was not taken into consideration at all
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in your decision? A No, inconclusive. Just couldn't determine that
he had abused the vehicle. Q So we have the charges in front of us in I would like you to, starting from -- I am
Exhibit C-5.
going to ask you one by one, asking you the following question. Did you find -- did you find the charge of
abuse of authority -- did you find Deputy Chief Nolan to have engaged in abuse of authority and why? A Yes, I did find him to engage in abuse of He
authority because of the treatment of the recruits.
was in a position of power to recommend whether these individuals would be hired as firefighters. He used that
position in order to get them to sell raffle tickets for him to bring him gifts, to bring him money and when they didn't bring them in at the rate that was acceptable to him, he punished them with an inordinate number of towers and even threatened them that once they got on the line, that they would have to come back once they were hired as firefighters, that they would have to come back and run more towers. These individuals were coerced into bringing That's abuse of authority.
him money and gifts. Q
Now, with respect to the issue of providing -There's still one issue. Is there
now, let me rephrase.
anything wrong with asking for donations per se in the
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City of Hartford? A There's nothing wrong with it but you can't You can ask for donations
coerce a person into doing so.
but no one is forced into giving them money or gifts and getting money from family members and members of the business community. Q Now, you stated that -- let me move on to the
second charge. With respect to the issue of providing false statements to a superior, what were your findings with respect to that issue? A He did provide false statements to Assistant Assistant Chief Parker asked him several
Chief Parker.
questions that if he had answered them honestly, we would simply have not been here today. We could have probably But what
addressed the matter completely at that stage.
happened is we had to bring in recruits, I'm sorry, probationary firefighters which is highly unusual. I
can't recall probationary firefighters being called in anything other than discipline. employees. They were at-will
Those are the ramifications of providing false We could have provided fairly
statements to a superior.
simply -- it would have called for corporation counsel and HR but it would have been resolved in a more simple fashion, I believe. They were probably terrified.
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One of the charges is jeopardizing the health Could you elaborate a
and safety of firefighter recruits.
little bit about the charge, first of all? A Yeah. The number of towers they had to run even
initially I was surprised to see at the graduation ceremony that particular recruit class that there was a videotape shown which I could not find later but the videotape showed the recruits running towers in their civilian attire. And I came to realize after questioning
the recruits that they were told to run towers the very first day of training. And I can't imagine what they
could have done to warrant such treatment and I asked the deputy chief of training why did you assign the recruits towers on the very first day of training while they're still in their civilian attire, which is dangerous? And
he said, "I don't know, you will have to ask them that." Q Was this a question you asked during the
Laudermill hearing? A Q Yes, it is. In relation to the charge of jeopardizing the
health and safety? A Q Yes. And when he says you would have to ask them
that, what is your opinion or -- strike that. He says you would have to ask them that. Do you
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consider that an appropriate response to your question? A No. And particularly in light of the support He was
this man has received from this administration.
promoted from the rank of lieutenant and elevated to the rank of deputy chief of training, the third highest ranking position in the Hartford Fire Department. He had On He
the complete and total support of my administration. my watch the budget of his division almost doubled. received additional personnel. from this administration.
He had nothing but support
To receive an answer like that
was completely and totally disrespectful and totally unnecessary. He should have just answered the question That's the way he's been treated:
openly and honestly. openly and honestly. Q training.
You reference his promotion to deputy chief of Who was the chief who promoted him to deputy
chief of training? A Q I was. I promoted him to captain also.
Now, we'll go back to that. Well, let's ask you now. Allegations have been
made that this is as a result of some sort of vendetta resulting from Felicia Graves and her performance at the fire training academy. Was there a recommendation to
dismiss Felicia Graves by Deputy Chief Nolan? A Yes, there was.
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What was the reason for that recommendation to
dismiss her? A Q A She disobeyed a direct order. And what was the direct order? To get back here. She was -- physical training When they
apparently took place at the end of the day.
completed physical training so they didn't have to spend time taking showers while on department time they got in their cars and went home. When they finished doing this
one run in particular, Felicia Graves didn't run it fast enough so the deputy chief of training -- I later came to find out. I didn't know this when she was dismissed -The
gave her 75 towers, gave the recruit class 75 towers.
entire recruit class knowing that they would have to work off those towers either by running the towers or getting money, were not pleased with her in the least bit. fact, they were very, very upset with her. In
She was upset,
perhaps audibly so, meaning that she could have been crying and she walked away from the deputy chief of training to get to her car. At that time the deputy chief She did not get back
of training said, "Get back here."
there and he yelled out, "If you don't get back here now," something to this effect, "If you don't get back here now, don't ever come back." And he followed up by turning her
in for disobeying a direct order.
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And did you support that recommendation of
terminating her, dismissing her for not obeying a direct order? A Q Yes, I did. There is a reason why I did.
Well, you did not support Deputy Chief Nolan's
recommendation for dismissal? A No, I did support his recommendation to dismiss There is a reason for
her from the training academy. that. Q A
Can you explain the reason for that? Certainly. The deputy chief of training has to
maintain a certain level of control over the recruit class, it is true. His orders must be followed. If she
disobeyed a direct order, she heard the order and understood the order and then she should be dismissed from the class. However, when I did interview her to discuss
this entire matter, it became apparent to me that she possibly did not hear the order. If she didn't hear the
order or didn't understand the order, termination would not be necessary so I did not terminate. I dismissed her
from the program, put her back in her previous position as a cadet and allowed her to go into the next class. Q Were there any other concerns brought to your
attention regarding Felicia Graves? A Prior to that occurrence there were. She seemed
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to have a problem with her helmet.
It couldn't stay on
for some reason, and it was brought to my attention by the deputy chief of training that it was possibly due to her hair style that her helmet wouldn't stay on. saying that much. I recall him
That is all I can recall him saying And you must understand
about her at this point in time.
a recruit class does have several people in it that normally have challenges. That's the only challenge I
recall about Recruit Graves. Q Other than insubordination -- other than the
letter of dismissal for insubordination later on by Deputy Chief Nolan -A Q A For disobeying a direct order, yes. So you recall two incidents? Yes. Well, the initial incident was mundane.
He was not recommending dismissal because her helmet came off. He was just complaining about it. And sometimes
they're a forwarning.
If things of this sort continue, Obviously, we can't have a
something has got to happen.
person on the fire ground who can't keep their helmet on. It's unsafe. So I understand why it's necessary to
address it informally but this was no informal complaint. When he turned her in for disobeying for a direct order, he wanted her out of the class. Q And did she join the following class?
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A Q A Q A Q
Yes, she did. And in the training academy? Yes. And did she pass that class? Yes, she did. And those classes, who goes to administer the
final evaluations in those classes? A The final individual to recommend hire or
dismissal is the deputy chief of training. Q Is there any -- are there any other personnel
involved in judging their evolutions and performance? A Q A They judge but they can only recommend. And who would they be? Well, there were two captains of training. I
believe there were four lieutenants, several firefighters, perhaps a detailed captain so there were three captains. The precise number of people I don't recall. Q And did they recommend her to graduate in that
second class? A Q Yes, they did. Now, is there any other personnel outside of the
city that monitors the evolutions or grades the evolution? A There is the Connecticut academy provides a
testing for the position of, or the certification of Firefighter 1 and Firefighter 2. They make evaluations in
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determining whether a person should be hired. Q A statement? Is that a state agency? May I retract the latter portion of that last The Connecticut academy does not make a They just determined the
recommendation to hire.
firefighter to that status. Q And do you know if they got the firefighter
status at that point? A Yes, to the best of my knowledge she did. (Short recess.) BY MR. RAMOS: Q Chief Teale, you indicated that you found that
four out of the five, Deputy Chief Nolan had engaged in the conduct that he was accused of doing in four out of the five charges. Now, I would like you to tell us today
why did you find that termination was the appropriate punishment in this case? A I gave serious thought to anything else but --
including demotion but I simply could not find the place where a person who abuses authority, provided false statement to a superior, jeopardized the health and safety of subordinates, in this case recruits, but would do so in general and a person that would disobey a direct order. could not think of a position, what position could that work, as a captain, as a lieutenant, as a firefighter, not I
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in the Hartford Fire Department.
This conduct is
unacceptable at any rank in the Hartford Fire Department, unacceptable, so I was left with no choice but termination. Q Thank you. One follow-up question to that.
Could there have been a position where he would not have had to interact with any of his recruits that contradicted his testimony? A fashion. No. No, the department isn't structured in that
No matter what job you have, you have to Even if
interact with other members of the department.
they were put on different tours or shifts because of our -- the shortage in personnel that we have in the department, we periodically have to have people cover with overtime. around it. Q Do you consider -- would you consider a There's -- they would have to interact; no way
mitigating factor the fact that he claims that he didn't know that requesting, aggressively requesting for these donations was wrong? Do you consider that a mitigating
factor at all in this case? A Q A No. Why is that? Because if that was the reason why he engaged in
the behavior -- if that was the reason why he behaved in
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the behavior he engaged in, why did he lie about it when questioned by Chief Parker? If he didn't know that was
the wrong thing to do, he'd say, Yeah, I did that, and then when told that was the wrong thing to do, you apologize, take full -- take responsibility for your actions, apologize, make full restitution. money you took. Give back all the gifts. Give back the Promise never We
to do it and take whatever discipline is given to you. all make mistakes but you don't get out of it by lying. That's the problem here. It started off with a lie and
then went downhill from there.
Disobeying a direct order. If he
These are the things that happened after the fact.
had just told the truth when he was brought in by Chief Parker, we probably could have resolved this in a better fashion than termination. MR. RAMOS: Nothing further. THE ARBITRATOR: go off the record. (Off-the-record discussion.) THE ARBITRATOR: Let me just state for Mr. Ferguson, let's Thank you, Chief Teale.
the record by pre-agreement we agreed to end promptly at two o'clock and do need to stick to that schedule, so whatever time is left and whatever appropriate breaking point a minute before two, I'd appreciate it
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if we do cut it at that tipping point. Mr. Ferguson?
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FERGUSON: Q Prior to the alleged charges which ended in the
termination of Deputy Chief Nolan, did you have any kind of a relationship with him? A Q A Q Yes. How would you describe that? It was a good professional relationship. Okay. And you worked together in some capacity
or another for 25 years that he was on the department prior to his termination, correct? A We worked in the same firehouse at one time, if
that's what you're referring to. Q A Q Uh-huh. Yes. And you bumped into him professionally in
various capacities after that? A Q A Q Yes. Did you work with him at the training academy? No. Not at all, okay. So you had left when he became -- when he went
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there originally as a captain? A following. I vacated the position and he assumed the He went into the position of captain of
training, not deputy chief but captain. Q In fact, you had a relationship with his family
too; you gave a eulogy at his dad's funeral, correct? A Q Yeah. And prior to these charges, you were chief for
six, seven years? A than that. Q A Q Well, you were chief? Oh, for seven years, you're right. So a few years have gone by since. Prior to I suppose. Actually, it's a little bit more
this incident, this training class, did you ever have any reason to challenge his integrity? A No. In fact I defended him when people said bad
things about him. Q Okay. And did you ever have any question to
challenge his honesty? A Q No, I can't say that I did. Okay. And while you were chief and he was the
deputy chief of training, he operated previous recruit classes, correct? A I can only recall one. You're referring to
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classes. Q 2001.
Maybe there were but I just -He went into the academy around 2001, 2000,
Are you saying there was only one class between
2001 and the class that caused him to be terminated? A Q A classes. Q A Q A Q When was that? I believe it was in 2001. There was no class in 2004? Maybe there was, sir, but I just don't remember. Okay. Okay. But whether it was one or two or I don't recall another class. There was no other class? There was one class so that would make two
another number, you never had any problems with him in the conducting of the classes at that time? A Q Did not have any problem. Would it be fair to say that -- withdrawn. With regard to charitable contributions, isn't it true that you're personally aware and that Deputy Chief Nolan has been involved in many charities throughout his entire career at the Hartford Fire Department? A one. Q A And would that be the Lea Foundation? Yes. I am aware that he has been involved in at least
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And you're aware of that because you have had
some personal involvement in it also? A Not really. I attended one meeting but the
extent of the involvement would just be limited to attending the meeting. Q And at that meeting you did not become aware
through a discussion that occurred at that meeting that in fact fire department members were contributing and actively participating in the Lea Foundation? A Q people -A Q A No. That was not discussed in front of the other Who was at that meeting? I don't recall, sir. Well, it was a number of people, correct? Oh, there are quite a few people but it was ten
years ago and quite frankly it was a meeting that I attended because I was thinking about running the tower in CityPlace and I didn't do it, but that's the only reason why I was there to ascertain whether or not I would have or not. Q But do you recall a discussion about the charity
and how charitable contributions would be elicited? A sort. I don't remember that at all, no, nothing of the Once again, the purpose of my attending that
meeting was to determine whether I was going to run; the
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police chief was also considering it. THE ARBITRATOR: tower? A CityPlace's stairwell is 38, 39 stories high and You mean to run the
I was doing physical training by practicing running that tower. THE ARBITRATOR: what you mean by "run." Okay. I wasn't sure
You mean physically run. It's the Big Climb that
MR. FERGUSON: we're talking about.
THE ARBITRATOR:
I am not sure where
that climb had actually taken place. BY MR. FERGUSON: Q While we're on that subject, I am going to skip
ahead but that doesn't matter to you. A number of members of the department participate in the Big Climb, correct? A To the best of my knowledge they do but
precisely who, I don't know. Q A Q And it is a charitable event? Yes, it is. Have you taken a position against members of the
department participating in that climb? A Q Not at all. Have you taken a position with regard to making
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charitable contributions to that event? A Q No, not at all. With regard to charitable contributions, is
there anything in writing that prohibits members of your department from participating and/or collecting money for charitable events? A There's nothing in writing to prohibit people
from participating, from contributing to charitable events, no. Q And we're not here today because Chief Nolan
engaged in collecting money for charity, are we? A Q No, that's not the reason why we're here. We're here today -- and if Chief Nolan collected
money outside of the training class for the Lea Foundation, the Big Climb, for the Irish Society, for anything else, you would not be disciplining him, correct? A Q I would not be disciplining him for that, no. As a matter of fact, you're aware that right
now, members of the Phoenix Society for at least a month and a half have been collecting money for Haiti? A Q A Q I was made aware of that, that's correct. And there's nothing wrong with that? No, sir. So this has nothing at all to do with collecting
money for charities?
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A Q
That's correct. If in fact it turns out that Chief Nolan did not
coerce firefighters to give money in a quid pro quo fashion, coerce them, then we wouldn't be here? A There are several things, reasons why we're
Q A
I am asking about that one particular reason. I think we may be here because he disobeyed a
direct order. Q A Q A Okay. We may be here because he lied to a superior. Okay. We may be here for a variety of reasons,
unfortunately. Q But that would not be the reason, if he didn't
coerce employees, that wouldn't be one of the reasons? A Q That's correct. Okay. Good. THE ARBITRATOR: Can I just follow up? If the
This has been a curiosity.
grievant had asked those of the recruits whether they would be willing to contribute -- "I have got this charity, are you willing to contribute," and some people did and some people did not and it was the beginning and the end of that conversation, where
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would that fit into what you've just been asked by Mr. Ferguson? A There would have not been an objection to a The problem was the quid pro quo. I gotcha, okay.
request for donations.
THE ARBITRATOR:
Just hang on one second. (Pause.) BY MR. FERGUSON: Q Now, with regard to charitable giving within the
department, is there any written directive, standard operating procedure or anything else from your office or from the office of the nonunionized support units -assistant chiefs directing employees not to participate in charitable events? A Not to the best of my recollection. There are
hundreds of policies but I don't recall that sort of thing. Q case? A Q Right. And is there anything in the department policies And you would know that now at least after this
or directives written that preclude or prevent or direct employees not to collect money from businesses in town for any reason, charitable event or otherwise? A No, there's nothing in writing.
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Okay.
And that's even after this event.
There's never been anything put in writing against that? A We have never had a problem with it up until
And you don't find anything wrong with the
Phoenix Society going to local businesses collecting money for charity as members of the fire department, specifically Haiti? A I don't have a problem with them doing that,
it's true, but I don't condone them coercing them in doing so. Q And do you have any information in this case
that Deputy Chief Nolan coerced any business or any member of the public to give to any charity that he was collecting for? A Q No business or member of the general public? Yeah. Do you know of any -- I am not talking We're talking about general public. I
about the class.
just want to define what we're talking about here.
Do you
have any evidence, did you make any determination, did you base any of your reasons for termination upon the fact that members -- that Deputy Chief Nolan went to local businesses or individuals in the town to collect money for the charities that he supports? A I don't have any evidence that he coerced any
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businesses or members of the general public into giving money. Q So when we use the word "coercion," you're
talking about his interactions with members of his class, the 20 people in his class? A yes. Q Okay. And with regard to the members of the We'll get to that in a minute. I am talking about the members of the class,
class -- withdrawn.
You're aware as the chief of the department that the city and the department support the United Way? A Q Yes, sir, I am. And you sent out as a regular part of your
responsibilities written requests for contributions to the United Way, correct? A Q That's correct. And part of that request is a check mark for
people who do not wish to contribute, correct? A The exact form of the documentation I can't tell That's something that I don't
you what it consists of. get involved with.
That's the United Way interacting
directly with the department. Q Okay. Would it surprise you that the form has a
check mark for people to indicate that they do not wish to contribute?
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It would not surprise me.
I have filled out I haven't recently,
that paperwork myself in the past. though. Q
And so there would be written evidence of people
who want to contribute to United Way and those who don't? A Q That's correct, but I never see any of it. Okay. But you could. It goes through your
office, correct? A Q A Q A Q A No, it does not. It doesn't? It doesn't go through your office?
No, it does not. There's not a check-off for deductions? That would go -It goes through your payroll? It goes through the payroll services. If you're
saying it goes through the department in general, that's a little different. I misunderstood your question. So it
goes through the department in general but I want you to understand that I don't view this information. need for it whatsoever. they make -Q Is there something in writing that explains that I have no
It goes to the United Way and
to the people who contribute and don't contribute in the department? They would know you would not know who
contributes and who doesn't?
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A Q
No, there's nothing in writing to that effect. Since you of course make the final determination
on who gets promoted, correct? A Q I do make the final decision who gets promoted. And it's very clear, Chief, that you support the
United Way? A Q That is quite true. And you ask the other members, the members under That's something you
your direction also support it, too. would like them to do? A Q
I don't ask them to do so, no. It's not clear to the members of the department
that you support and that the department supports United Way? A I certainly do support it and the department and
city supports the United Way but I never ask any individual or even groups of individuals directly to give to the United Way or any other fund-raising function that I am involved with. Q Are you involved in any of the local charities
on your own? A Q A Very much so, yes. Like which ones? Camp Courant, Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater
Hartford, United Way, I don't know if the Connecticut
154
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Historical Society is referred to as one.
I have been
involved with many other organizations but most recently those are the ones that I have -Q Have you ever solicited contributions on behalf
of any of those organizations? A Q Have I ever solicited? Have you ever solicited on behalf of those
organizations' contributions? A Q A Yes. Sold tickets to events for those? No, not selling tickets. What I generally do is
public speaking engagements for them, and I contribute my own money to these various organizations. Q Okay. Do you recall in 2007 and 2008 shortly
before this occurred or while this was occurring, I guess, that you made a request to D.C. Nolan that he elicit members of the class to participate in the Veteran's Day parade? A Yes, I did ask. I generally ask if anyone is
interested in marching in the parade and I am sure I informed Chief Nolan that the recruits could march also. Q A You asked them if they would march, correct? No, I did not. I said that they could march. One of the things that I have I
didn't ask them to march.
come to realize is when you ask people in the department
155
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
to do things, you end up paying them. (Laughter.) MR. RAMOS: Good answer. This may be an
THE ARBITRATOR:
appropriate point to stop rather than starting another few questions. MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR: Sure. Let me say again,
this was by pre-arrangement in starting early, et cetera. Since the chief is on the witness stand now,
although it seems like this may be an easier request than usual since I'll be informed that he will be retiring shortly, you can't discuss this case with counsel or anyone else. Unfortunately, we'll be
coming back here on the 21st but at this point we'll pick up exactly where we left off at this point and we'll presumably complete, at minimum that day, complete your testimony and release you from having to be present. Thank you all. the 21st. MR. FERGUSON: THE ARBITRATOR: At 8:30? We'll start at 8:30. And I'll see you on
We can go off the record. (The hearing was adjourned at
156
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1:53 p.m.)
157
CERTIFICATE
I hereby certify that the foregoing 155 pages are a complete and accurate computer-aided transcription of my original Stenotype notes taken of the Arbitration hearing in the Matter of: CITY OF HARTFORD -AND- IAFF,
LOCAL 760, held before HARVEY SHRAGE, Arbitrator, and before Cheryl S. Damato, Certified Court Reporter/Notary Public in and for the State of Connecticut, held at the Sheraton Hotel, East Hartford, Connecticut, commencing at 8:56 a.m. on Wednesday, April 7, 2010.
____________________________ Cheryl S. Damato Court Reporter-Notary Public
My Commission expires: December 31, 2013
158
I N D E X
WITNESS Michael Parker Charles a. Teale
DIRECT
CROSS 4
REDIRECT 75
RECROSS
94
142
CITY EXHIBITS (Received in Evidence) EXHIBIT NO. 2 5 6 DESCRIPTION PAGE 42 117 118
Notes of Parker ....................... Notice of Laudermill hearing .......... Letter to Teale from Nolan, 4/26/08 ...
159
UNION EXHIBITS (Received in Evidence) EXHIBIT NO. 1 2 DESCRIPTION PAGE 29 30
Photo of tower ........................ Photo of stairs and tower .............

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AMERICAN ARBITRATION ASSOCIATION * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the Matter Between: * * CITY OF HARTFORD * * -and* * IAFF, LOCAL 760 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

HELD BEFORE: HARVEY M. SHRAGE, Arbitrator

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

THE ARBITRATOR: everyone.

We're beginning day three of this matter

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

He was a line lieutenant, I believe, suppression

or his promotional -A Q No. Is it accurate to say that the complaint from

So it was an anonymous complaint? Yes. In your experience in being in charge of

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

Chief Teale, I believe. With regard to the complaint from AC Milner,

His complaint was that Chief Nolan was I believe

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

Yes. Did you ever determine who the member or members

of the union to me. Q You're not answering my question. We're here

I asked President Fusco if I could have the name

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

the union. Q Did Assistant Chief Milner when he reported the

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

checked, if it was on. Q

I don't have the facts on that.

Is it proper for somebody to go into a city car

This is not the subject of the

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

discipline that's at issue here.

I think I know where they're going on

done to anybody before. THE ARBITRATOR: I'll allow it. The

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

determination that it came to light. correct? A Q

working there, I believe. Q So he was put on administrative leave pending an

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

While we were looking into the allegations

against him. Q Which ones? It couldn't have been A.C. Milner.

the chief operating officer.

Milner was the last one in writing. complaint. Q

Well if A.C. Milner's complaint, if his fire

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

Prior to this incident, had you ever received

the issue of Play Stations. A Q Yes.

And you stated in your direct that you asked

There were eight questions that you posited to him?

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

He said no. Okay. And that question was posited based on

statements from any of the 20 members of the class? A Yes.

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

Who exactly confirmed that?

exact question in front of me.

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

to purchase a Play Station.

I don't think I said he was I am not sure that was

asked directly by Chief Nolan. even in my question. Q Nolan? A I am not sure.

Well, who was he asked by if it wasn't Chief

If I had my notes I could tell

CHERYL S. DAMATO/COURT REPORTING SERVICE

And as you sit here today you cannot tell me or

recall if that was directly asked. felt intimidated. Q

I know they said they

I am not asking you about that.