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from:advaita-l-request@lists.advaita-vedanta.org add to address
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subject:advaita-l digest, vol 56, issue 3
to:advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
date:wed, 05 dec 2007 12:00:01 -0600
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today's topics:

1. re: importance of ashram (jagannathan mahadevan)

2. re: importance of ashram (anuj)
3. re: advaita-l digest, vol 56, issue 2 (adishesha cns)
4. re: importance of ashram (ravi parimi)
5. re: attack on adi sankara-by dvaitins-what has been done to
resolve this? (shrisha rao)
 6. re: importance of ashram (karthik subramanian)
7. advaita in one sloka (s.n. sastri)
8. re: importance of ashram (jagannathan mahadevan)
9. re: importance of ashram (krishnamurthy ramakrishna)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: tue, 4 dec 2007 12:07:48 -0600
from: "jagannathan mahadevan" <jagannathan.mahadevan@gmail.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta"
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id:
<af813e290712041007k2536e07ap11534b80fe8781b@mail.gmail.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

hi,

by deeksha i suppose you mean "learning". i think it is largely a

personal preference as to who one should obtain guidance for learning
from. for some the idea of getting a deeksha and learn some
technicalities, which is not wrong at all, may not appeal. what is
best for you may not be suitable at all to another! for all that you
know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit someone that is not a
brahmana or not done veda adhyayana (i do not know what the rules
are!)

hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that advaita

cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he
mentions to an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of
the vedic texts but cannot teach advaita. now my question is why
should one go to sringeri matha (where sri bharathi teertha mahaswami
resides) if only grammar is taught there? of course as i mentioned
before it may not be wrong at all to go and learn grammar, but for
someone that is longing for an experience it is not suitable unless
your high ranking orders can provide that.

i am reminded of an anecdotal incident, narrated to me, about swami

chinmayananda when he was called upon to shed the "saraswati" suffix
by the same order you have mentioned as best for deeksha. swami
chinmayananda simply replied, "they can have the name, as saraswati is
with me anyway!" saraswati was indeed with swami chinmayananda and no
one can dispute that. learning is always possible where saraswati is
and it is simply the person's preference to choose who he wants to
learn from.

the point of this is that the statement that sringeri is the best
place or that the current mahaswami is the best, or that ramakrishna
order is "next" best is highly disputable without stating the metric
for your ratings!!

jagan

on dec 3, 2007 10:04 pm, ramesh ramanan <rameshramanan@yahoo.co.uk>

wrote:
> hi anuj,
>
> i did not intend to discourage you from your goal, but only wanted
to caution against the pitfalls. swami parthasarathy is very well-known
and he has written very good treatises on vedanta and the gita. he has
extensively lectured on vedanta as well. but if you could get deeksha
from sri bharathi teertha mahaswami and be under his guidance, that
will be the best you can get in this yuga. there just can not be any
second opinion on that. next to this will be discipleship under a senior
monk of the sri ramakrishna order. i do not know much about swami
parthasarathy's ashram, but i think, it ranks third in my list of preferences
if i were to join an ashram. best wishes, ramesh ramanan.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> sent from yahoo! - the world's favourite mail.
>
> _______________________________________________
> archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> to unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> for assistance, contact:
> listmaster@advaita-vedanta.org
>

------------------------------

message: 2
date: tue, 4 dec 2007 10:21:14 -0800
from: anuj <whereisanuj@gmail.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta"
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id:
<4ce141840712041021v10572e9fkcb7b1adbf6df2b81@mail.gmail.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

thanks jagan, you help clarify my point as well. i think there is

another point to be made which is that most of the people we learn
about as the great sages of the past learnt from many masters and
eventually even superseded them in their own experience of the truth.
>from budha, to ramakrishna to christ, they all grew out of their own
knowledge to become enlightened. not that i expect to become as well
known as any of them obviously, but from a advaitic standpoint, if i
am fortunate enough, i will attain the same knowledge and feel the
same peace someday. that is the goal anyway right?

so teachers may come and go, they may be great or the "best" but by
judging them as so, one forms an opinion and opinions are not always
true, only the ultimate truth is true. i read a cute saying yesterday
"the only truth is the self, the rest are all opinions".

anuj

on 12/4/07, jagannathan mahadevan <jagannathan.mahadevan@gmail.com>

wrote:
> hi,
>
> by deeksha i suppose you mean "learning". i think it is largely a
> personal preference as to who one should obtain guidance for learning
> from. for some the idea of getting a deeksha and learn some
> technicalities, which is not wrong at all, may not appeal. what is
> best for you may not be suitable at all to another! for all that you
> know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit someone that is not a
> brahmana or not done veda adhyayana (i do not know what the rules
> are!)
>
> hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that advaita
> cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he
> mentions to an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of
> the vedic texts but cannot teach advaita. now my question is why
> should one go to sringeri matha (where sri bharathi teertha mahaswami
> resides) if only grammar is taught there? of course as i mentioned
> before it may not be wrong at all to go and learn grammar, but for
> someone that is longing for an experience it is not suitable unless
> your high ranking orders can provide that.
>
> i am reminded of an anecdotal incident, narrated to me, about swami
> chinmayananda when he was called upon to shed the "saraswati" suffix
> by the same order you have mentioned as best for deeksha. swami
> chinmayananda simply replied, "they can have the name, as saraswati
is
> with me anyway!" saraswati was indeed with swami chinmayananda and no
> one can dispute that. learning is always possible where saraswati is
> and it is simply the person's preference to choose who he wants to
> learn from.
>
> the point of this is that the statement that sringeri is the best
> place or that the current mahaswami is the best, or that ramakrishna
> order is "next" best is highly disputable without stating the metric
> for your ratings!!
>
> jagan
>
> on dec 3, 2007 10:04 pm, ramesh ramanan <rameshramanan@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> > hi anuj,
> >
> > i did not intend to discourage you from your goal, but only
wanted to caution against the pitfalls. swami parthasarathy is very
well-known and he has written very good treatises on vedanta and the gita. he
has extensively lectured on vedanta as well. but if you could get
deeksha from sri bharathi teertha mahaswami and be under his guidance, that
will be the best you can get in this yuga. there just can not be any
second opinion on that. next to this will be discipleship under a senior
monk of the sri ramakrishna order. i do not know much about swami
parthasarathy's ashram, but i think, it ranks third in my list of preferences
if i were to join an ashram. best wishes, ramesh ramanan.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > sent from yahoo! - the world's favourite mail.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > to unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > for assistance, contact:
> > listmaster@advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> to unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> for assistance, contact:
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>

------------------------------

message: 3
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 00:54:34 +0000 (gmt)
from: adishesha cns <cnsadishesha@yahoo.co.in>
subject: re: [advaita-l] advaita-l digest, vol 56, issue 2
to: advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
message-id: <676794.65587.qm@web7606.mail.in.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

dear sri anuj

namasthe

>from your letters i understand that you are intending

to become a swami. that is good. i would like to bring
to your kind attention about real vairagya and the
temporary vairagyas those have dealt in various
oriental works. you can cross very your mindset with
these and take decision thereafter.

true vairagya : if one develops an undying interest in

brahma and decides that the present birth should be
the last birth to him.

temporary vairagyas : these are of three kinds.

certain circumstances make us to take sanyasa. but
after some time when the emotions recede the aspire of
becoming a swami will fade.

01. puraana vairagya: while listening or discussing

about philosophy the idea of taking sanyasa will
occur. but after some time the same will fade.

02. smashaana vairagya: when the near and dear ones

die the idea of taking sanyasa will occur. but after
some time the same will fade.

03. prasuthi vairagya: when a pregnant lady undergoing

labour pains she takes thousand oaths not to mate with
her husband any more. but after delivery as the time
passes she forgets her oaths and longs for her
husband. this kind of vairagya is known as prasuthi
vairagya.

you are authority to check what type of vairagya you

have developed. if it true one please go ahead. if not
please wait till the true one develops.

another point. one can himself initiates into sanyasa.

but generally people try to affiliate to a certain
smpradaya.

one can become a swami / sanyasi instantaneously by

pronouncing 'praisha manthras'.

(please refer to devanagari (sanskrit) script for

correct pronunciation).

the praisha manthras are;

om bhuuh sanyastham maya

om bhuvah sanyastham maya

om suvah sanyastham maya

om bhuurbhuvasuvah sanyastham maya

note:- earlier in the days of yore, advaithi sanyasis

used prefer not to take a new name after becoming a
sanyasi as it again tantamount to identifying himself
/ herself with body or corpse than with brahman.

but todays law of the land do not permit so. therefore

you can choose a new name of your choice which can
remind you always brahman.

regards

adishesha

--- advaita-l-request@lists.advaita-vedanta.org wrote:

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> is more specific
> than "re: contents of advaita-l digest..."
>
>
> today's topics:
>
> 1. re: importance of ashram (anuj)
> 2. re: importance of ashram (sanjay srivastava)
> 3. re: importance of ashram (anuj)
> 4. re: importance of ashram (ravi parimi)
> 5. re: importance of ashram (anuj)
> 6. re: importance of ashram (k kathirasan ncs)
> 7. re: importance of ashram (ramesh ramanan)
> 8. re: importance of ashram (anuj)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> message: 1
> date: mon, 3 dec 2007 11:18:02 -0800
> from: anuj <whereisanuj@gmail.com>
> subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
> to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta"
> <advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> message-id:
>
>
<4ce141840712031118g19455321r8e5fb141c14fb738@mail.gmail.com>
> content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> thank you both siva and ramesh, i agree that there
> are places which
> might not be cohesive for my purposes so i must be
> cautious. where i
> am planning on going however
> (http://www.vedantaworld.org/) is a
> sincere and time proven place. i have met the
> founder swami
> parthasarthy personally and some of his disciples as
> well and know
> that this is the right place for me to further my
> understanding and
> search.
>
> please visit the website so you may see for
> yourself.
>
> thank you again for adding me to the list and i look
> forward to the
> knowledge that resides within.
>
> anuj
>
> on 12/3/07, sivaramakrishnan muthuswamy
> <muthushiv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > dear rameshji,
> > i am bit puzzled with your advice to mr.anuj.
> ashram is a great setting where one can practice
> spirituality. that is why adi shankaracharya
> himself set up ashrams at various corners in india.
> i am sure mr.anuj would have contemplated on
> choosing a good ashram as he is 28yrs old. infact
> in this present yuga, only ashrams can provide
> proper requisite for sastras prescribed spiritual
> practice. grahasthashram life or living the life of
> bramachari outside the ashram setting without being
> watched is dangerous as the progress cannot be
> watched for. i consider ashram's life is drinking
> nector. there is no point in watching the nector
> from outside.
> > even to study vedanta we need like minded people.
> otherwise why in olden days gurukul has been
> created? currently we don't have that kind of
> system. ashram offers a great place to study
> vedanta under the true guidance of the noble guru.
> the advaitic knowledge is a transcendental
> knowledge. only a true teacher alone can impart
> that. the knowledge outside this system will be
> only scholarly. the uselessness of this has been
> pointed out by adi shankaracharya in baja govindam.
> > having said that, i should say the compassion
> rameshji is having for his anuj mr.anuj is really
> huge. i am sure he really wants his anuj to select
> an enlightened master so that he is not
> disappointed. i completely agree that part. my main
> objection comes only on his later part of his
> statement where he suggestes "it
> > is better to watch and participate from the
> outside instead of
> > becoming a member.."
> > having clear in mind that every event in this
> world is happening at the will of the lord, i
> wouldn't worry much about mr.anuj's future. forgive
> me rameshji if my words are not correct.
> > sincerely yours
> > siva muthuswamy
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- original message ----
> > from: ramesh ramanan <rameshramanan@yahoo.co.uk>
> > to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
> <advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > sent: monday, december 3, 2007 8:03:33 am
> > subject: re: [advaita-l] new member introduction:
> anuj
> >
> >
> > hi anuj, welcome to the fold. but before joining
> any ashram, please
> > check out its credentials thoroughly or you will
> soon be disillusioned. it
> > is better to watch and participate from the
> outside instead of
> > becoming a member. best wishes and love, ramesh
> >
> > "jaldhar h. vyas" <jaldhar@braincells.com> wrote:
> hello, my name is
> > anuj, i currently live in san francisco, but am
> > moving back to india (new delhi) sometime in the
> next month after
> > having spent 10 years here in the us. i am 28 and
> have decided to
> > follow my spiritual calling and join an ashram to
> further my
> > understanding of vedanta over the next 3-4 years.
> i am joining this
> > group because i would like to read about other's
> ideas and have a
> > place to learn from like minded people.
> >
> > i hope this is all you needed. oh1 yes, and i
> agree to the terms and
> > conditions of this group/website. :)
> >
> > namaste,
> > anuj
> > _______________________________________________
> > archives:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > to unsubscribe or change your options:
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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------------------------------

message: 4
date: tue, 4 dec 2007 23:20:48 -0800
from: "ravi parimi" <rparimi@gmail.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta"
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id:
<21c20ce70712042320p2020076dodfaeed4dbf58238c@mail.gmail.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

> by deeksha i suppose you mean "learning". i think it is largely a

> personal preference as to who one should obtain guidance for learning
> from. for some the idea of getting a deeksha and learn some
> technicalities, which is not wrong at all, may not appeal. what is
> best for you may not be suitable at all to another! for all that you
> know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit someone that is not a
> brahmana or not done veda adhyayana (i do not know what the rules
> are!)

don't mean to begin a flame-war here, but isn't it ironic that an

institute that is committed to spreading the knowledge of vedanta and
supposedly abides in the fact "sarvam khalvidam brahma" bases so many
of its actions on caste? when i look at the videos in sringeri's
website or any others in which sringeri swamiji appears, he is often
flocked by priests or brahmins only, and seems to maintain quite a
bit of physical distance between himself and devotees. i cannot help
wondering if adi shankara himself laid down such laws to be followed
by all the leaders of the shankara matha in subsequent years. if a
book listing such laws does exist, can someone please point the same
to me?

the best any teacher can do is to impart proper education to pupils

and perhaps lead by example. as bhagavan ramana maharshi pointed out
many a time, the knowledge of the self cannot be obtained by doing
karma a or karma b, for if it is such, it will go away in time. also,
bhagavan says that the self is one's greatest teacher :)

the major outcome of shastra adhyayana is to train the mind and make
it pure. beyond that it really is isvara's grace.

there's a wide variety of gurus that teach vedanta in today's world,

and it is often a challenge for one to choose a guru. one's destiny
seems to have a major hand in leading one to a guru for spiritual
guidance.

here's wishing anuj well in his quest..

------------------------------

message: 5
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 04:04:37 -0700 (mst)
from: shrisha rao <shrao@nyx.net>
subject: re: [advaita-l] attack on adi sankara-by dvaitins-what has
been done to resolve this?
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <pine.gso.4.64.0712050338160.13065@nyx3.nyx.net>
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

on tue, 20 nov 2007, vidyasankar sundaresan wrote:

>> i heard from one of my friends that adi sankara has> been attacked
>> viciously by the dvaitins. i also read a

> that is true.

while on the subject, let us note that such attacks have also occurred
by
others (e.g., the mimamsaka parthasarathi mishra, and various
naiyayika-s,
vishishhtadvaitins, and others). some criticism/abuse has also flowed
in
the reverse direction.

my own view, also shared by people i respect, is that it is generally

more
fruitful to carefully develop one's understanding based on a careful
study, rather than waste time on who abused whom in what century.
>> many advaitin friends have contacted the dvaita list> moderator,

really? such as who, for instance? i have e-mail and postings going
back
a decade or more, and find no such contacts (which is not unreasonable,

since as vidyasankar points out, i am hardly someone who can help in

this
matter).

>> someone named rao, but he didn't have the> decency to respond
properly.
>> in fact, he hurled abuses> at people who expressed concern.

i guess such an allegation is mild in comparison with, e.g., tommy

hilfiger's reputation and business being damaged by false accusations
of
racism, but it is equally absurd in a way. i have not abused anyone
"who
expressed concern," for the simple reason that no one has "expressed
concern" to me, and why should they?

for the record, i don't believe i have spoken ill of sankara personally
at
any time, in public or in private. some years ago there was also a bit
of
comment to me personally when i opined on the dvaita list that
character
assassination of sankara is hitting below the belt in a way and ought
to
be avoided, and that the historical accuracy of the mani-majnjari is
not
entirely without question (quite apart from this matter).

regards,

shrisha rao

> vidyasankar

------------------------------

message: 6
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 13:17:59 +0000 (gmt)
from: karthik subramanian <karthikvathula@yahoo.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <333825.20647.qm@web36413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

hi,

@anuj

>> from budha, to ramakrishna to christ, they all grew out of their
own
knowledge to become enlightened. <<

few questions:-

1. if all these grew out of their own knowledge to become enlightened

and if you intend to quote that as example, why ever do you need to go
and study under swami parthasarathi?

2. does this mean that the role of a guru is overdefined?

3. could you please elaborate on the enlightenment of the buddha and

the christ?

by the way, sri ramakrishna indeed became enlightened out of his own
knowledge, but he received guidance from three great masters - bhairavi
brahmani, totapuri, and last but not least, bhavatharani.

@jagan

>> for all that you know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit
someone that is not a brahmana or not done veda adhyayana <<

what makes you so sure about this?

>> hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that advaita

cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he mentions
to an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of the vedic
texts but cannot teach advaita. <<

isn't there any extent to interpret the words of a world-renowned

jivanmukta in a literal way?

hh chandrashekhara bharathi need not had to utter a word. just a

brief glance of his conferred the highest knowledge on several people. the
erstwhile peetadhipathi of sri yoganandeshwara saraswathi mutt,
yedatore, sri ganapathi bharati was one such person that had this good
fortune. a very ordinary patashala vidyarthi that he was, a glance from hh
changed his whole life. he attained vast knowledge of the veda, vedantha
and shastra. he is known his knowledge of purvamimamsa and for the
performance of several mahayagnas like the garudachayana and
darshapurnamasa. after becoming a turiyashrami, he shone as one of the greatest
realized masters.

@ravi

>> when i look at the videos in sringeri's website or any others in

which sringeri swamiji appears, he is often flocked by priests or
brahmins only, and seems to maintain quite a bit of physical distance
between himself and devotees. i cannot help wondering if adi shankara himself
laid down such laws to be followed by all the leaders of the shankara
matha in subsequent years. if a book listing such laws does exist, can
someone please point the same
to me? <<

the following is quoted (edited by me for brevity) from a discussion

at www.kanchiforum.org/forum/
 ----------- "abrahmakita janani" -- a namavali in lalitha
sahasranamam. the nama next to this is varnasramavidhayini. combining these two
names, periyavaal (kanchi paramacharya) answered a question.

periyavaal was giving darshan. a bhakta asked: "since lalitha

sahasrananam mentions that ambaal is the mother of all this world we all
become sahodharas. if this is so, why to move with some people without
physically coming in touch with them or touching them? how is this
untouchability appropriate?"
periyavaal: for this question the answer is in the very next
namavali. "ambaal who is the mother of everyone has also established the
regulation of varnasrama. she is also the varnasramavidhayini ! -----------

|| labhed vanchitartham padam brahmasamjnam guroruktavakye mano

yasya lagnam ||

regards,
karthik

---------------------------------
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message: 7
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 19:34:41 +0530
from: "s.n. sastri" <sn.sastri@gmail.com>
subject: [advaita-l] advaita in one sloka
to: advaitin@yahoogroups.com, advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
message-id:
<7b890d4a0712050604j255454a3j8ab40b621362788e@mail.gmail.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

the essence of advaita vedanta is given in a nutshell in the following

sloka
in narayaniyam of narayana bhattatiri (dasaka 98, sloka 7):--

bhushasu svarnavadva jagati ghatasaravadike mrttikavat

tattve sancintyamane sphurati tadadhunapyadvitiyam vapuste |

svapnadrashtuh prabodhe timiralayavidhau yadva-

dvidyalabhe tathaiva sphutamapi vikaset krshna tasmai namaste ||

tattve sancintyamane- when one reflects on the true nature of things,

bhushasu svarnavadva?like gold in ornaments, or,
ghatasaravadike?in pots and other vessels, mrttikavat?like clay,
jagati- in the universe,
tat advitiyam te vapuh?that non-dual aspect of thine (alone),
adhuna api?even now (when we experience the universe as existing),
sphurati- shines.
svapnadrashtuh- for the dreamer,
prabodhe- on waking up,
timiralayavidhau?when the darkness is removed (by light),
jirnarajjoh ca- of the worn-out rope also,
yadvat tatha eva?in the same way itself,
vidyalabhe?on the dawn of knowledge,
sphutam vikaset api?the reality will also shine clearly,
(he) krshna, tasmai te namah?o krshna, prostrations to thee, who art
that
(the reality).

when one reflects on the true nature of things, one will realize
that,
just as there is nothing but gold in all gold ornaments, and nothing
but
clay in all pots and other earthen vessels, so also, there is only thy
non-dual self in reality even when this universe is seen as existing.
this
reality will shine clearly on the dawn of knowledge, just as the things
seen
in a dream are found, on waking up, to have never existed and the
worn-out
rope (which was mistaken for a snake) is seen clearly when the darkness
is
removed by a light. o krshna, prostrations to thee who art that
reality.
s.n.sastri

------------------------------

message: 8
date: wed, 5 dec 2007 08:51:54 -0600
from: "jagannathan mahadevan" <jagannathan.mahadevan@gmail.com>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: "a discussion group for advaita vedanta"
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id:
<af813e290712050651m617d818clf164fa95fbe1cc8a@mail.gmail.com>
content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

on dec 5, 2007 7:17 am, karthik subramanian <karthikvathula@yahoo.com>

wrote:
>
> @jagan
>
> >> for all that you know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit
someone that is not a brahmana or not done veda adhyayana <<
>
> what makes you so sure about this?

i am not sure, but i have not heard otherwise very often.

>
> >> hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that
advaita cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he
mentions to an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of the vedic
 texts but cannot teach advaita. <<
>
> isn't there any extent to interpret the words of a world-renowned
jivanmukta in a literal way?

i apologize, but i did not misinterpret. i was only trying to say that
individual experience is important and that determines who one chooses
to be with.

>
> hh chandrashekhara bharathi need not had to utter a word. just a
brief glance of his conferred the highest knowledge on several people.

i will agree undoubtedly, although i would like to say that it must be

an experience of the devotee of hh who felt that way after the
interaction with hh.

>
> regards,
> karthik
>
> ---------------------------------
> get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. click here to
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>
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>
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message: 9
date: wed, 05 dec 2007 10:30:37 -0500
from: "krishnamurthy ramakrishna" <puttakrishna@verizon.net>
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram
to: "'a discussion group for advaita vedanta'"
<advaita-l@lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
message-id: <0jsl00dow1dxov19@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

hi karthik,
ramana maharshi also was enlightened out of his own experience.
enlightening
out of one's own experience is advaita. if a guru is not the
instrument,
it does not mean there was no hand of guru; it goes without saying that
the
guru led him up to that stage in the prior life or lives. all that was
needed in that particular life was a trigger to bring out that
experience
and enlightenment. the role of a guru is never overstated. can you
 receive
a phd degree without the advice of a phd or equivalent experience?
regards,
krishnamurthy ramakrishna.

-----original message-----
from: advaita-l-bounces@lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces@lists.advaita-vedanta.org] on behalf of
karthik
subramanian
sent: wednesday, december 05, 2007 8:18 am
to: a discussion group for advaita vedanta
subject: re: [advaita-l] importance of ashram

hi,

@anuj

>> from budha, to ramakrishna to christ, they all grew out of their
own
knowledge to become enlightened. <<

few questions:-

1. if all these grew out of their own knowledge to become enlightened

and
if you intend to quote that as example, why ever do you need to go and
study
under swami parthasarathi?

2. does this mean that the role of a guru is overdefined?

3. could you please elaborate on the enlightenment of the buddha and

the
christ?

by the way, sri ramakrishna indeed became enlightened out of his own
knowledge, but he received guidance from three great masters - bhairavi
brahmani, totapuri, and last but not least, bhavatharani.

@jagan

>> for all that you know the sringeri swamiji may not even admit
someone
that is not a brahmana or not done veda adhyayana <<

what makes you so sure about this?

>> hh chandrasekhara bharathi swamigal himself has said that advaita

cannot be taught but only experienced. in one of the quotes he mentions
to
an aspirant that he may at best clarify some grammar of the vedic texts
but
cannot teach advaita. <<

isn't there any extent to interpret the words of a world-renowned

jivanmukta in a literal way?

hh chandrashekhara bharathi need not had to utter a word. just a

brief
glance of his conferred the highest knowledge on several people. the
erstwhile peetadhipathi of sri yoganandeshwara saraswathi mutt,
yedatore,
sri ganapathi bharati was one such person that had this good fortune. a
very
ordinary patashala vidyarthi that he was, a glance from hh changed his
whole
life. he attained vast knowledge of the veda, vedantha and shastra. he
is
known his knowledge of purvamimamsa and for the performance of several
mahayagnas like the garudachayana and darshapurnamasa. after becoming a
turiyashrami, he shone as one of the greatest realized masters.

@ravi

>> when i look at the videos in sringeri's website or any others in

which
sringeri swamiji appears, he is often flocked by priests or brahmins
only,
and seems to maintain quite a bit of physical distance between himself
and
devotees. i cannot help wondering if adi shankara himself laid down
such
laws to be followed by all the leaders of the shankara matha in
subsequent
years. if a book listing such laws does exist, can someone please point
the
same
to me? <<

the following is quoted (edited by me for brevity) from a discussion

at
www.kanchiforum.org/forum/

----------- "abrahmakita janani" -- a namavali in lalitha

sahasranamam.
the nama next to this is varnasramavidhayini. combining these two
names,
periyavaal (kanchi paramacharya) answered a question.

periyavaal was giving darshan. a bhakta asked: "since lalitha

sahasrananam
mentions that ambaal is the mother of all this world we all become
sahodharas. if this is so, why to move with some people without
physically
coming in touch with them or touching them? how is this untouchability
appropriate?"
periyavaal: for this question the answer is in the very next
namavali.
"ambaal who is the mother of everyone has also established the
regulation of
varnasrama. she is also the varnasramavidhayini ! -----------
 || labhed vanchitartham padam brahmasamjnam guroruktavakye mano
yasya
lagnam ||

regards,
karthik

---------------------------------
get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. click here to know
how.
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