PANDEMONIUM: INSIDE KILLING JOKE

Collected Interviews 2000-2006

By Joel Gausten www.myspace.com/gaustenbooks

#2 in the MUSIC MINI-BOOK SERIES

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PANDEMONIUM: INSIDE KILLING JOKE

2007 Joel Gausten (except where noted)
No part of this book may be used or reproduced in any manner whatsoever without written permission of the author/publisher. Thanks to: The ever-expanding Gausten Clan, Steve Raynor, Dave Diesel, Mick LoMauro, Jonathan Krosky, Olga at Decca, Jaz Coleman, Paul Raven, Troy Gregory, Mike Coles, Lee Popa, Ted Parsons, Chris Connelly, Jester, Chris Uhl, Carl Hanni, the mighty Pigface, Ramy, Joe Siegler, Mr. Bill Ward, Tom Greco, Pete Joerger, Mike Fintzy, Chip McMahon, Tim Miller, Jerry Jones, Dave Street, Bobby Steele, Danny Frankenstein, Frank White, Brendan Mullen, Matt Bastard, Sara Rung, Amy Bugbee, Carmela Marsillo, Andy Sekelsky, A.P. at SuicideGirls.com & Karen at Define The Meaning.

Special thanks to Martin Atkins & Linda Gausten.

Authors Note: Some of the quotes contained herein have been edited for clarity.

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For Youth, Geordie & Paul. Be careful Ill getcha one of these days!

They all have brilliant minds in Killing Joke. I guess I do it for the company. Ive never met other people like this. Jaz Coleman, 2000

CONTENTS:

AUTHORS INTRODUCTION A CONVERSATION WITH THE BLACK JESTER QUOTH THE RAVEN ATKINS SPEAKS! A QUICKIE WITH CHRIS CONNELLY TROY GREGORYS FANBOY HEAVEN

6 15 20 29 43 46

BASHED SKINS & DEADLY BUTTER KNIVES: A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A KILLING JOKE DRUMMER 49

Authors Introduction Hosannas From The Bowels Of New Jersey

It all started at a garden center. I grew up in a place called Sussex County. If youve never been there, you havent missed much besides a whole lot of tractors, cows and Bingo Nights. As you might imagine, such an environment did very little to stir my imagination as a young ladbut the place did have its moments. As a 10-year-old kid with very few travel options, my Big Days Out usually involved accompanying my parents to a local home-and-garden place called Rockaway Sales. For some inexplicable reason, amidst the piles of manure and rakes sat two music cutout bins. The first bin held brandnew vinyl priced between two and four bucks. And this wasnt just any vinyl Im talking the Cure, the Boomtown Rates and the Plasmatics here! For a perpetually bored brat about to hit puberty, this was (quite literally, if you consider the location) like finding a pot of gold in a dung heap! The $3.99 cassette bin proved equally intriguing, as I found it reasonable enough to take a chance on bands I never heard of in the hopes of discovering something brilliant for basically nothing. Thats how I discovered The Psychedelic Furs, early Soul Asylum, Madness and countless other bands that swirl in my brain to this day. One day, I stumbled upon a cassette that immediately caught my attention. The cover showed a black-and-white close-up of a guy with bushy eyebrows staring off into the distance with a look of great apprehension. At 10 years old, I wasnt quite sure what such a dire-looking cover could possibly have to do with an album called Brighter Than A Thousand Suns, but I figured Id slap down four bucks to find out. My life hasnt been the same since.
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Now, this should be the part of my introduction where I spend the next several hundred words discussing the musical merits of the greatest fucking band in the world. Sorry, but that aint gonna happen. Why? Well, if youre reading this book, its very likely you already know. But, as a courtesy to the uninitiated, here goes Killing Joke isnt something you feel. something you analyze Its

With that out of the way, let me tell you how this whole mini book came about My interest in music writing began in the fifth grade, when I published my own Xerox-and-staple Hair Metal fanzine to help raise funds for my schools Student Council. In addition to being a smashing success (It raised $13!), the experience was fun enough to convince me without a doubt that music journalism would be my lifes work. As I developed my craft over the next several years, I enjoyed more than my fair share of memorable encounters with world-renowned musicians (bumming a smoke off of Pepper Keenan, sharing a bowl of Chex Mix with Yngwie Malmsteen, talking SCTV with Geddy Lee, etc.) Of course, all of those moments paled in comparison to the series of happy accidents that resulted in the creation of Pandemonium: Inside Killing Joke. Happy Accident #1 I first met the stripe-shirted Energizer Bunny known as Martin Atkins in 1993 after a Pigface performance at the New Orleans Music Hall. In an odd case of being in the right place and the right time, I just happened to be vacationing in the Big Easy with my familyand just happened to pass a record store that had a huge poster advertising that evenings performance. Of course, there was no way in Hell I was gonna pass that up! It was a killer lineup that night Atkins, Raven, En Esch, William Tucker (RIP), the Lab
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Report guys what a fucking show! In true fanboy fashion, I bum-rushed Martin after the show in search of an autograph, which he graciously gave me. (To find out what else happened to me that night, read my quote in the liner notes to The Best Of Pigface Preaching To The Perverted.) Happy Accident #2 By 1995, I had started a little gig for myself as a concert promoter, booking 300-4000 seat venues throughout North Jersey. One night, I decided to leave a phone message at Martins label, Invisible Records, asking if any Invisi acts were available to play for me. Since it was late, I didnt expect anyone to pick up, let alone hear a strong British accent excitedly proclaim, Weve got Sheep on Drugs coming over! Its gonna be huge! Although Martin and I were unable to get our dates to mesh well enough to book the mighty SOD in my hall, he remembered our talks nearly five years later, when I got him on the phone for an interview on The Damage Manual for the Jersey paper, The Aquarian Weekly. Although I booked and conducted the interview with Martin because I loved the first Damage Manual EP, I can now freely admit that I had ulterior motives. Thanks to Martins performance on Extremities, Dirt & Various Repressed Emotions, my already-strong love of Killing Joke became an obsession when I first heard that album in 1990. At that precise moment, I had seriously considered abandoning my drum lessons completely. After all, how would I ever be that fucking good? I ultimately decided to keep playing because, well, I wanted to play with the guy! Thanks for the interview, Martin. By the wayout of curiosityyou know, Im a drummer, and Ive always been into what you doIs there room for one more in Pigface?
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Sure! Keep in touch. Well, shit, that was easy! About a year later, I got an invite from Martin to play in Pigface at a show at the Limelight in NYC. Of course, in true Pigface fashion, I had absolutely no fucking clue what to expector what I would even be doing once I walked onstage. A few hours before show time, I ran into Atkins on the street and asked him the Million Dollar Question: Sowhat do you need me to do? Guess it was the wrong thing to ask, since all the guy did was stare at me like I was from Mars. Um, should I just wing it, then? Just wing it, man! Oh, okay. And thats exactly what I did. Before I knew it, I was onstage playing toms to Stateless alongside Martin and Dickless, the tours other drummer. Then came the flood of Murder Inc., Weightless, Nutopia and the rest of the glorious noise. Every so often, Id catch a peak at Atkins behind his kit blonde hair and black stripes flying with every blast. Surreal. Oh, yeah, I also think a didgeridoo player hopped onstage for the encore, but I was way too deaf at that point to know for sure
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The best part? When Im an old man someday, I can tell the little ones about the time a half-naked woman spat fire above my head while I improvised drums to a cover of Black Sabbaths Supernaut. Happy Accident #3 In the months between my interview with Martin and the Pigface gig, I landed a job as managing editor of Liner Notes, a magazine produced for a major record store chain in New Jersey. Part of my job in this position was to write mini reviews of the Hot New Releases available at the store that month. Of course, many of these reviews tested the limits of my journalistic integrity, if you know what I mean. Thankfully, I would get a break from the advertorial BS fests now and then, like the time I was asked by the store to hype Riders On The Storm The Doors Concerto, a new classical release by a guy named Jaz Coleman. Heh heh heh! Needless to say, Liner Notes soon became quite possibly the worlds biggest supporter of The Doors Concerto Hell, we even printed a full-page Q&A interview with its creator! (Wonder how that happened) Despite Jazs reputation for being short-tempered and easily provoked (especially among the music press), I found him to be warm, jovial and more than happy to talk. Although the interview began with a discussion of Jazs recent classical work, our conversation inevitably entered the realm of Killing Joke. Of course, a mere page in the magazine didnt do the man justice. (As you might imagine, a talk with someone as intriguing as The Black Jester can be somewhat lengthy.) I am proud to finally present my complete interview with Jaz, uncut for the first time anywhere, in this collection.
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Happy Accidents #4-7 In early 2005, I decided to finally fulfill my longtime dream of writing a book. When I began the arduous task of selecting the records I wanted to feature in my book, Albums that (Shouldve) Changed the World, there was one album that immediately hit the top of my list Extremities, Dirt & Various Repressed Emotions! On Extremities, Killing Joke unleashed an intelligent take on Industrialized Metal that predicted the arrival of System of A Down, Deftones, Korn and several other nu metal acts that rose to stardom in the 1990s. The albums lyrical content focused on Jazs struggle to rebuild his life following a severe nervous breakdown brought on (in large part) by his all-consuming obsession with the occult. By revealing himself so openly, Jaz invited the listener into a captivating world of sorrow, anger, loss and (ultimately) redemption. Few artists would have the courage to do such a thing. Additionally, this period in the bands history received a considerable shot in the arm (and, at times, a heavy dose of internal controversy) once Atkins stepped in to replace original skin beater Big Paul Ferguson. Extremities also showcased a more-than-suitable return to form for the group following the keyboard-drenched indulgence of 1988s grossly misunderstood Outside The Gate. Considering Killing Jokes long-standing inventiveness and overall staying power (despite a seemingly endless string of financial and personal misfortunes), it is difficult to determine the exact reasons behind Killing Jokes inability to rise above cult status, especially in America. Ironically, the bands greatest stateside press coverage came in the early 90s, when they raised a considerable fuss over Nirvana ripping them off virtually note-for-note on their Nevermind track, Come As You Are. While others may have enjoyed the fruits of Killing Jokes labors, the band has yet to truly receive the accolades they so richly deserve.

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Since my ultimate goal was to write a book focusing on music that deserved a second listen, Killing Jokes inclusion in my work was an abso-fucking-lute no-brainer. My first official act as a budding book author was to shoot over an interview request to Atkins, whose immediate and enthusiastic response got the whole thing cranking. Although it took me another 15 months to actually get Martin on the phone for the interview, his brutally honest insight into Killing Joke circa 1988-1991 was well worth the wait. Happy Accident #4 came just a few hours after the interview, when Martin emailed me to ask if Id be interested in speaking with Chris Connelly about his work with various Killing Jokers as frontman of Murder Inc. I had already crossed paths with Mr. Connelly a few times over the years, most notably when we shared the stage together at the Limelight show, so I was thrilled to have Chris involvement in this project. Always the gentleman, Chris is second only to Mr. Raven in having the quickest interview-request response time in the entire history of the Albums project. Speaking of whichHappy Accident #5 happened when a completely shot-in-the-dark interview request sent to the official Killing Joke website resulted in Raven ringing my cell less than 24 hours later Happy Accidents #6 and #7 have to do with two guys whove enriched my journey beyond words. Ted Parsons and Troy Gregory have each become major players in the Albums book, as they both did time in three of the spotlighted bands Killing Joke, SWANS and Prong. It was a true gift to secure Teds participation, as he was the guy occupying the drum throne when I finally got to see Killing Joke perform live sixteen years after first hearing Adorations on my boom box. In addition to being a great interview subject (especially when it came to discussing his touring exploits with Coleman and Co.), Ted was kind enough to pass along contact information for a number of previously inaccessible SWANS members. His support and generosity planted the
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seeds for not only the SWANS chapter in the Albums book, but also my soon-to-be-published mini book, SWANS: An Oral History. I first met Troy Gregory on Myspace, and our subsequent phone hookup resulted in one of the best times Ive ever had interviewing a musician. An incomparable wit, Troy ran off a slew of humorous tales about his tenure as Killing Jokes touring bassist on the Democracy tour. Best of all, I recently had the pleasure of continuing our talk in-person when my band, Broken Heroes, swung into Detroit to play a gig. Considering the fact that Troys early work with Flotsam & Jetsam was among my favorite music when I was a kid, my whole experience with the guy has been quite a trip one that I look forward to continuing for years to come. Of course, all of these wonderful happy accidents contributed to a not-so-wonderful dilemma: How in the world was I going to possibly use all of this great material? Thats where this mini book comes in. As I continue to sift through the myriad of details Ive collected on Killing Joke for the final Albums book, I feel its a great idea to also present the band in their own words in the form of a standalone tome. A word of warning: If you are unfamiliar with Killing Joke, this mini book will likely be a frustrating head-scratcher. Several of the names, events and plot twists referenced within these pages will only resonate among true Gatherers. Pandemonium: Inside Killing Joke is not intended to be a primer of the history of Killing Joke, nor is it meant to provide a historical overview of the groups entire body of work. That will come later this year, when Albums that (Shouldve) Changed the World finally sees the light of day. In the meantime, I hope this interview collection will provide a rare look inside the personalities, attitudes, conflicts and victories that define a gloriously indefinable band.

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This aint gonna be a smooth readbut if you know anything about this lot, you should already know that The eventual Killing Joke Albums book chapter will also feature the voices of a few key non-band members, most notably Extremities tour soundman Lee Popa and original Killing Joke album cover artist Mike Coles, whose experiences and memories add a new dimension to an already intense story. My humble thanks to them both. Now, if you are new to the world of Killing Joke, here are the instructions: Put down this book immediately. Buy anything bearing the name Killing Joke (yes, even Outside The Gate!). Close you eyes and open your mind. Let this music move you in ways you never thought possible.

A Killing Joke album should be pretty easy to find just go to any great record store or do an online search And if that doesnt work, try a garden center

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A Conversation with the Black Jester (2000)* Im sure that developing The Doors Concerto was quite an undertaking. When did the idea for it first arise, and how long did it take you to put it all together? Jaz Coleman: The idea for it came about two years ago, and then I just thought about it and dreamt about it for one year. I sat in cafes and just thought about what it should be like, and which pieces I should do, and what associations I had and what images came to mind when I thought of those pieces. I focused on that, almost like superimposing another image on the image. For example, Spanish Caravan has a Che Guevara association, and the Vietnam War is obviously associated with The End. I dreamt about it for one year, and then put pen to paper and just went consecutive days until it was finished, basically. I have to get into an almost feverish pitch when I take on a big score. I become the most anti-social person. (laughs) I enjoyed doing it. One of the things that happened was, just before I was about to start doing it, a friend and colleague of mine no names mentioned said to me, Look, theres this movie soundtrack. Why dont you do this movie soundtrack instead of doing fucking arrangements? You do them great, but theyre just fucking arrangements. I was so angry, I couldnt sleep for four nights. On the fourth morning, Im exhausted and I was so fucking angry that he said this to me. I thought to myself, Right, Im gonna take on this Doors Concerto and move Heaven and Earth with it and just put everything into it, so that fuckers gonna eat his words. (laughs) The reason why people have never done good arrangements of rock music before is that they dont care enough. Its just a job to them. I did it with as much passion as I do with any of my own music and more, and it has a lot of my own music in it. You cant think about not getting publishing or
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this or that. I just wanted it to be the best that I can get. It was emotionally very taxing doing the whole thing. It exploded, because I got to meet all the living instrumental Doors, and they just fell in love with it. You can feel that Morrisons very close to these three musicians, and when they heard the music, they were visibly moved. I couldnt get a better compliment. I quite consciously did a couple of very strange things Im sure no composer would do. From the beginning, I set out to communicate with the soul of Morrison, and the way I did this was, I wanted to get a violinist who had very similar traits in terms of how they lived their lives. I felt that I touched on something really quite spiritual bringing Nigel (Kennedy) in. I felt that I was privileged to get closer than anyone could ever get to the whole spirit of the Doors. By having the endorsement of the guys themselves, I believe that I succeeded in what I set out to do. Is there one moment of the concerto that you feel best conveys its overall spirit? Fortunately, I have more than one moment. (laughs) Yeah, I have some favorite moments. I love The Unknown Soldier. Obviously, its a real development from the original, but Im fond of it. It captured something. I have people ringing me up telling me that they are moved by what are just really, in truth, arrangements. I feel that Ive tapped into a resonance, and its something really quite spiritual. I believe that I tapped into the soul of Morrison through a violin. Its a mind-blowing fucking experience, really. Youve often described your dual involvement with classical arranging and Killing Joke as a schizophrenic dilemma. Do you find it difficult at times to balance the two extremes?
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Its strange. One minute, youre playing for a few thousand people and theyre jumping off the balconies like lemmings, and the next minute youre onstage with a symphony orchestra. I cant reconcile the two yet, no. (laughs) Killing Joke is featured on the Free The West Memphis Three benefit album. Why did you decide to contribute to this cause? Were all opponents of the death penalty. Simple as that. You know what? If I even encounter somebody whos prodeath penalty in my presence, theyll fucking get it! Civilization must, must, must be compassionate and must forgive at the end of the day. I dont believe that Man has the right to take life. I just do not believe it, and thats why we contributed to it. On the Extremities tour, you introduced The Beautiful Dead by saying that people who used automated rhythms were dead. Why, then, did Killing Joke seem to have a change of heart with Pandemonium and Democracy? Thats a good point. WellYouths influence, of course. I dont knowI should never say never, but I dont really care for it. I think that the worst thing about sampling is that everything seems so metronomic. Theres no fluctuation of tempo. Theres no great feeling. If you look at the graph, it reaches one level and thats it. I do not find any spiritual satisfaction just in that. Of course weve always had the drums and Geordie, which makes the whole thing bloody explode. And thats it, really. You can really get rid of the sampling side of things. Youve often described Killing Joke as a band of individuals. With that in mind, how have you all been able to maintain the band for 22 years?
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I think we all really want to do it, always. But we dont want to overdo it, you know? I think so many bands are stereotypes. My life is not a stereotype. Ill tell you what, I like to get into the middle of the woods, set up a little camp and stay there playing my drums all night or whatever. I like to go to the other side of the world. Im a bit of a gypsy myself, you know? I dont like living like, Im in a band, so therefore thats how I live. Im glad I do other things, and Im glad everybody else does other things and Im glad were all different as individuals. I like that everybodys well read. They can discuss architecture, art, music. They all have brilliant minds in Killing Joke. I guess I do it for the company. Ive never met other people like this. Youve said that a key role for a musician is to forge a primal connection with the audience. Do you think that technologies like Napster and the Internet benefit or hinder this connection? Someone said the other day that technology is at the extent now that people who cant achieve orgasm can put an implant in and have the same experience. The next fucking thing, youll be plugging your head into the computer! Im an adventurist, you know? The idea of our heads growing larger being plugged into computers and doing less and less and looking at a screen is personally abhorrent. Its not for me. There are good things about the subversive side of the Net that are very interesting, but I dont have any deep respect for technology. At the end of the day, I think that intelligence will be better applied looking at sustaining natural resources and food resources. After all these years, is there one moment that will be forever etched in your mind? Oh, God! Theres so many! Ill just try and list a few. The experience of recording in the Kings Chamber in the Great Pyramids and coming out and having all of these musicians
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outside welcoming Youth and me as were coming out, and the vibe in the air, was pretty bloody sensational. There are thousands of Killing Joke gigstheres just too many in 22 years. Its just been orgasmic, really. (laughs) Too many good experiences in too many places. I think recording my first symphony, getting to that point when I never thought that would ever happen, was a great experience. Dreaming about an island at the end of the Earth, and all these prophesies and stuff that Id become obsessed with, and then ending up there and those things coming trueI think all my dreams have come true. All I seek now is just to master what I do.
* 2000 Thomas Greco Publishing, Inc. Reprinted by Permission.

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Quoth the Raven (2005) Legend has it that you rejoined Killing Joke only two days before Extremities was recorded. What led to you becoming part of the fold again? Paul Raven: (Laughs) Well, it was a little bit longer than that. I think it was more like five weeks, actually. I always quite admired Martins playing and Martins approach. When I heard some of the ideas that Geordie was already knocking around, it gave me the opportunity to make the record that we should have made after Night Time. That was really my musical motivation. Also, I needed the money. Everybody was at the top of their game when they made that record, with songs like The Beautiful Dead and whatnot. Even on Hosannas From The Basements of Hell, were still sort of drawing from things that we made on Extremities that we havent made since. The band had gone through some difficult times in your absence. How would you describe the general atmosphere of the band when you returned? There was a whole different atmosphere surrounding the band due to them taking care of their own business a little bit more. There was a renewed spirit of aggression, musically, with Martins involvement. For all of Martins other misgivings, hes an innovator and he really did a good job on that record. I believe we got Martin at the absolute peak of his powers. Martin and I instantly got on personally as well as musically. I always say that he made me sound really good on that record.
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On Extremities, you and Atkins sounded like you had played together for years. How were the two of you able to lock in so well in such a short period of time? By going it for like ten hours a day for three weeks. (laughs) Thats probably more than most bands rehearse in six months. How would you compare Martins style and approach to Fergusons? Ferguson is a much more soulful player, and a much more primal, instinctive player than Martin. Martin, during that period, tended to be a little more stylized. But Martin had fire in his balls on that record. I really loved what he did. When we went on to Murder Inc., those guys found a big grey area where they both blended well. Its a shame we couldnt resolve our differences and keep that lineup together. But there were a few cathedral-sized egos around, and that will never do. Are you referring specifically to Murder Inc.? Actually, from Martins involvement with us, period. Martin did do a lot as far as his organizational qualities and whatnot, but then he wanted to own the show. Thats why Paul is still family, and Martin is not family. Martin will never play in Killing Joke again, but we still have a lot of admiration and respect for Paul. Thats the general consensus. For you, what was the most challenging aspect of recording the album?

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The most challenging aspect, and what also gave us the big payoff, was the fact that it was all bare-knuckled, no padding, straight up, in-your-face recording and not a whole of computer shit and overdubs like the way people like to make records now. We did great live takes of the record, and we nailed them. That is something thats not easy to do. Its sometimes easy to sort of make a relevant picture with your music, but its not always easy to take a Polaroid snapshot of a spirit and vibe, and thats what we got on that record. The songs really translated well from the original ideas, and they were still fresh and new enough for us to execute and record them really well. Martin Rex, who did that record he passed away last year did a great job, too. He did a great job of being referee in a quite a hectic, heated period personally between everybody. Which moments on Extremities are you proudest of? I really like Age of Greed. I think thats a great recording. Like I mentioned before, I think Beautiful Dead is a great song. We managed to retain the same atmosphere, or parts of atmospheres, from Revelations or whatnot on that record. Thats something that was lacking for some time. If I have to nail it down to one particular part, I think it would be the return of our menacing, brooding selves on The Beautiful Dead. In 1991, you were quoted as saying that Extremities was the definitive Killing Joke album. Do you still feel that way? When I listen to it, I still feel that it is in many ways. Its a more complete record that a lot of the other records, and it illustrates a lot of our strengths musically. I think that the 2003 record was also in that same vein. In some ways, that was more of a definitive record than some of the others merely because its so focus and pointed in its vibe.
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Do you have any fond memories of the plastic-bag photo shoot? No! (Laughs) I thought the pictures turned out quite hilarious, but I dont remember that much about it except for it being very hot, sweaty and a pain in the ass. How successful was Extremities compared to the other Killing Joke records? Well, that depends on what you term success. For me, the fact that weve survived this long is success, to be honest. But with that specific record, it was a success insofar as it was a return to our top form, basically. During the Extremities period, Martin was handling many of the bands business affairs. How did having a member take such a strong role in that side of Killing Joke affect the dynamic of the band? Actually, it was good. Now, of all us do that. It was just a little but weird to have someone who was sort of considered an outsider wanting to steer the ship. But while he was steering the ship and everything was good, it was good. But as soon as commissions started disappearing from places they shouldnt have been disappearing, and the figure shuffling started, thats when things had to change. I personally think that most musicians are fucking lazy bastards that deserve to be ripped off because they dont take care of their own shit. So, in that respect, he was doing the right thing, and his spirit of independence sort of regenerated our original spirit of intent in Killing Joke, and that was good.

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Why did you and Martin split from Killing Joke? I was already based in America, and America was my home. Chicago held a lot for me musically. Between Jourgensen and William Tucker and Chris Connelly and a lot of the other people I knew, it seemed like a natural progression for me to go back. I was also sort of impressed by Martins entrepreneurial skills. I was very happy to help him try to create more of a buzz with Invisible. You know, hes a good guy and we had fun in that respect. Ive recently been back in touch with him, but Ive had a lot of times when Ive missed Martins tenacity. If theres one thing I love about him, its that he dont quit. I do actually respect him on a musical level. Hes still doing it, so I can appreciate that. How did Murder Inc. come about? That led from our belief that Killing Joke needed to be touring more in America. When Alex Harvey had his noise out of joint, the Sensational Alex Harvey Band did an album without him. And we decided to just do that. It stemmed from my enjoyment of playing with both Paul and Martin. I was like, Man, it was great playing with Paul, and its great playing with Martin. How great would it be to play with both of those fucking lunatics? Fortunately, they hit it off. How much of the music that comprised the Murder Inc. album stemmed from what Killing Joke was doing at the time? Im not really sure if thats even part of the equation. Murder Inc. was a bit like, Okay, everyone show up with one idea you can share with the other person, and then were knock off a few other things while were there. We wanted to do that with Steve Albini, and thats basically how it started.

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Why didnt Murder Inc. last beyond that one album? Thats a very good question. I dont know. Id like to think that one time Id be able to do it again. A lot of it was based around the business end of it. It was very loose. Chris and Martin sort of fell out, and people were just bickering and bitching and whatnot. If it aint fun, then whats the point? On a similar subject, how would you best sum up your Pigface experience? Oh, I had a very happy time in Pigface. I totally loved being in Pigface. I still believe in the original concept of Pigface. It was very liberating, and I met some lifelong friends doing it, even though we made a few rough recordings. I was looking at that Glitch video the other day, and that was just of despicable and distasteful quality. But the whole spirit of, Okay, what are we gonna get tonight? was really great fun. The beautiful nightmare hits town! Actually being able to stretch your creativity in different areas that you may not be able to do with any other medium was great. It was great fun and amazing to do. Ive never ruled out going out and doing it again. Ive just never been invited. (laughs) So, if given the chance, you would work with Atkins again? I would never rule out working with Martin, but not in the context of Killing Joke. I cant see him ever doing that again. After Killing Joke and Murder Inc./Pigface, you joined up with Prong. What was the greatest lesson you learned from Killing Joke that you applied to your work with Tommy and Ted?
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Thats a good question. I dont really feel that I even started to take music seriously until I was in Prong, to be honest. In Prong, we really put a lot of work into it, both musically and business-wise. We sold a lot of records and we had fun. I believe that we did include a lot of what we were trying to do with Killing Joke being original and innovators. With Teds work with SWANS and whatnot, he was bringing a lot of credibility to the plate also. In some ways, Prong was my own exercise, because Killing Joke was never my baby from the get-go. Prong was something that I had to prove to myself, that I could get out there and take another vehicle into the same arena and at least succeed at the same sort of level, and have people whose opinions I respect care about what I was doing. Thats what I think we achieved with Prong. Youve been back in Killing Joke for a few years now. After all this time, what does working with Jaz and Geordie give you that you havent found by working with anyone else? They are not the only purists I know, but they are the purest of the pure when it comes to what they do and who they are. They sacrifice a lot to keep that purity happening. I really, really appreciate that more now than I ever did back then. There was a time when I thought that how they lived was very narrow-minded. In some respects, its like slipping on an old overcoat, or that old pair of boots you like to wear. Theres so much that doesnt need to be said now. We have a musical understanding and a personal understanding. Ive spent over half my life with these guys, basically. Without sounding too much like Spinal Tap, we all balance each other out pretty well these days. The new approachable, sober Killing Joke. (laughs)

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There have been some amazing drummers in Killing Joke over the years Paul, Martin, Ted Parsons, Dave Grohl. What does it take to be a drummer in Killing Joke? It sounds like one of those jokes. Whats the difference between a Killing Joke drummer and a toilet seat? The toilet seat only has to deal with one asshole at a time. Resilient is the best way to describe the quality that you need. You need to have a lot of self-confidence in what you do, and you need to be resilient, because we can all be pretty hard taskmasters at times. Ben Calvert, who we have now, is in no way a slacker. Hes on top of his game, and he knows what hes doing. He brings his enthusiasm and his interpretation of the old material. He knows exactly how it should sound, and what we want. We consider it a blessing that weve met him at this point. Hopefully, he will be with us for the foreseeable future. Why do you think Killing Joke never rose above cult status, especially in the states? I really dont know. I really couldnt say. Maybe because we didnt put as much work into touring. Maybe because we didnt want to play the whole corporate fucking game. Are you satisfied with Killing Jokes place? In history? Yeah, I am certainly. But there was a point when Paul and I split, we wanted to take the whole thing up a gear. We wouldve really liked to have been where Metallica are today. I think if we had been a little more open-minded and embraced a little more of the love that was being shown to us from America and responded, maybe we would have
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had more commercial or regular success. But, as I said before, I really feel that our success is judged by our survival in this crazy world.

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Atkins Speaks! (2006) How well did you know the other guys in Killing Joke prior to working with them? Martin Atkins: I didnt. My first contact with Killing Joke was in London. They played some upstairs room somewhere in Camden. I was in PiL at the time, dating the bass player from the Delta 5, Bethan Peters. I think she took me to see them, because she worshipped Youth. This was 1979, 1980. I remember Youth finding Bethan in the audience somehow. His eyes were just lit, and he was going on and on and on about the pretty blue lights on his new amplifier! He had this new Trace Elliot amplifier that had all these blue lights. He was just mesmerized by that. I dont remember much about the show. I didnt meet Jaz or Geordie or Big Paul. Fast-forward six or seven years, and Im driving around the states with my band, Brian Brain. Geoff Smythe, Margot Olaverra and I had auditioned keyboard players in New York, and this guy John Bechdel came in from somewhere in Philadelphia. He auditioned, and became part of Brian Brain. At that time, a guy with a sampler was like, What the fuck is this? This is amazing! He made a mix tape for me, and I remember driving and asking him, Okay, whats this song? Hed say, Killing Joke. Then an hour later, Id ask, Okay, whos this? Hed say, Thats Killing Joke again. It turned out that four of my all-time most favorite songs were Killing Joke, and I just didnt know they were Killing Joke. That was my second encounter with them. Geordie was the one who got you involved in the band in the first place, right? Right. After five years with PiL, I left during Christmas of 1984. I moved to New Jersey from Los Angeles, and just said, You know what? The music business is just fucking
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disgusting. Having an around-the-world hit with PiL, and a house in LA with a swimming pool and palm trees, just didn't make me any happier. I was miserable. I moved to New Jersey with my girlfriend, and my immigration status ran out. I was an illegal alien, and a French friend of mine hooked me up with a construction job. We were digging ditches, building deckswhatever. It was during that time that I connected with Tico Torres from Bon Jovi, because the guy running the company had a landscaping job for Tico. When people say, What did you do with your summer? I say, I planted trees for Bon Jovi's drummer! Tico came out to talk to everybody with this, like, ridiculously hot Playboy model wife or something. He recognized me from PiL, and he had seen us play at Roseland in New York. We were talking drums for half an hour, and he ran inside and got me some of his drumsticks and photographs and some other crap. Then we just stood there, and I said, "Okaywhere do you want me to plant this next tree?" That afternoon, I got a bone flu, where it feels like there's a screwdriver in-between every joint in your body. I had five layers of clothes on, and I was sweating. It started to rainand This Is Not A Love Song came on the boom box. One of the Croatian guys in the crew said, Hey! This is you, Martin! You superstar! I'm like, Dear Lord, thank you. What's next? Am I gonna be struck by lightning? Very soon after that, the French guy, an American guy and I started our own construction company. We were having a pretty good time because we were all punk rockers. We'd build $15,000 decks in Princeton, New Jersey and have barbeques at lunchtime and fly the Pirate Flag above the deck. So that could've been it for me, but one day I got a call from Geordie just out of the blue. He'd met a guy in Washington DC called Charlie, who had supplied the PA for a couple of PiL shows. Charlie was in London auditioning to
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play bass for Killing Joke, and he told Geordie that he knew me. Geordie wrestled Charlie to the ground and kept him in a headlock until he gave him my phone number! So he just asked me if I wanted to join the band. So there I am with a successful construction company that had been going for six or seven months. I had also been married to my first wife for a few months. That had solved my illegal immigration situation, but once you apply for resident alien status in the states, you can't leave the country until you're approved. That could take two to three years. There are exceptions, like if it's for career reasons. I thought, Okay. I'm a fucking professional drummer. I always have been. Here's this huge file of press clippings from the New York Times, Melody Maker and blah blah blah to support my claim. So we went down to the immigration office, and they denied my claim. Why? I have no idea. I guess they didn't feel that drumming was a profession. I don't know. I thought we made a very careful, substantiated claim. All I was doing was trying to accelerate my process. So the decisions for me to join Killing Joke were leaving the construction company, leaving my wife of six months and knowing that if things didn't work out for some reason, I might be trapped in England for a year. This is a big leap-of-faith kind of situation. Into those last couple of weeks of this decision, every time I'd go in to the Melody Bar in New Brunswick, Matt Pinfield would immediately play This Is Not A Love Song or a Brian Brain song. Then he started playing Killing Joke Change, Wardance, Love Like Blood. I'm like, Oh My God! On a certain level, this band has more hits than Blondie! But then my wife at the time said to me, I don't want to burst your bubble, but you're talking about music from their
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first few albums. Before you risk everything, you really should listen to this album called Outside The Gate. I couldn't fucking believe it! Talk about insane, out-ofcontrol MIDI layering! ExcessI don't even know the words that come to mind! It had so much layering that it had a home-recording sound and no understanding of what the band was about! I'm like, Fucking hell! How can I join that band? I wanted to join Killing Joke! I finally rationalized the whole thing and said to myself, I'm listening to the band without me in it. I don't know what the band is going to sound like with me in it, but I know I want it to be more like the fucking Killing joke that I love! I got on the plane and went to London. I didnt know where I was going to stay. I think I stayed with Geordie for a couple of nights, then Jaz found a place for me an hour and a half outside of London. It was, like, two bus rides, two trains and a walk to the rehearsal room. Of course, the rehearsal room was around the corner from Jazs house! Thats just the way it was in Killing Joke. I didnt mind traveling to the rehearsal, but after six hours of rehearsal, I was soaking wet. I had to bring a change of clothes with me, and I was exhausted. I lost a lot of weight over the course of a month. Then, the two-hour ride home in rush hour was pretty horrible. Things were pretty good immediately. We played some songs that we knew, and we immediately began working on new songs. It was really good for me, from a drumming point of view. You later put out Killing Jokes The Courtauld Talks on Invisible. That was shortly after you started working with them, correct?
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Probably within the first eight months, maybe a year. That was INV004 the fourth album on the label. Was it successful at the time? No. I started managing the band very quickly after arriving in London because it was a fucking mess. We started handling the bands merchandise as well. I designed the Hitler shirt and some other stuff, like the banners and the backdrops. My recollection was that we shipped 1000 copies of the album, which wasnt very many back then at all. I immediately ordered a repressing, which took about four weeks because it was vinyl. The day the repressing arrived, I got my first returns on the first 1000, which meant I didnt need any of the repressing. So it mightve done 1000, and maybe 500 to 1000 in the CD format. Nothing spectacular, really. Killing Joke worked with a couple of different bass players before Raven came back. I know Andy Rourke from the Smiths was involved, although exactly what he did has always been a bit ambiguous. Can you help clear that up? First off, Charlie was playing bass. He was responsible for giving Geordie my number, but he wasnt getting better with each passing rehearsal. There were just random mistakes all over the place, so we auditioned another bass player. Andy Rourke was the guy, but (crew member) Fil (LeGonidec) was very vocal in saying, Look, this guys a fucking smackie. Fuck this shit. With my previous experience with PiLI had all the experiences I ever wanted in my life with heroin, from another member of that band. We were a little bit cautious, and we asked Andy upfront about that, and we rehearsed and we had photographs taken and press releases done. Then, after about ten days,
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he just stopped showing up. I was kinda pissed, so we put out a press release saying that we fired him, and we did a photograph with an x across his face. His manager called me, outraged. Im like, You know what? Fuck you. We spent two weeks rehearsing thats my time away from my wife. We have the costs of these rehearsals, and everybodys time. Were keeping his bass rig. When we sell it, Ill let you know how much more money you still owe us. Fuck the fuck off! After that, this guy Taif Ball got involved in the band. I think we did six or eight months with Taif. We did an American tour and dates in Europe. How did the atmosphere change once Raven was back in the picture? The feeling was, Here we fucking go! Were on it here! It was a little bit strange for me, because I had been playing with Taif, and then heres Raven. He kind of came into the album rehearsals. Theres something about Ravenhes a very charismatic guybut theres something about his bass playing that isnt technical. I said to Fil when we were out on the road with Pigface, You know, my fucking drums sound different when Im playing with Raven. Anybody who heard that said, Oh, fuck off! We were once in Toronto on this Pigface tour, and Raven jumps onstage with us and started playing. When he did, a few people looked at me, like, Holy shit! Youre right! I think it has to do with how he naturally plays and how I naturally play. I push and pull, and he pushes and pulls. We got straight into rehearsals, and Martin Rex mapped my drumming. He would record rehearsals, and would take the DAT tapes, load them into a computer and look at my drumming. The debate was whether or not to have me play to a click. I taught myself how to play drums by listening to the Beatles. George Martin would use tempo as a tool. To
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make a chorus more triumphant, he would up the BPM four to six beats. When Martin Rex told me that was what I did on choruses, Im like, Oh, fuck! He said, Dont worry. When you come back into the verse, you bring it back down to the same tempo as the last verse. He also said, On a melancholy instrumental section, youll slow it down to make it more melancholy. On an outro, Ill very gradually speed it up. That has the effect of the same repeated refrain, but the second refrain is slightly shorter than the first refrain. It keeps the brain analyzing things instead of thinking, Yeah, Ive heard this before. Im bored. If you dont keep an outro up, it feels like its slowing down and getting more boring as your brain gets used to it, so I naturally speed outros up to keep them interesting. It was really interesting to learn that. Was there ever any thought of putting Extremities out on Invisible? Why did the album ultimately go to Noise? Honestly, I dont remember. At the time, Invisible was just invisible. We werent manufactured and distributed by Touch & Go yet, and Pigface hadnt come out. Yes, it was a label, but the spoken word album was the fourth album. Two years after that spoken word album, we had nine people in the office, we were manufactured and distributed by Touch & Go and we were available everywhere. I dont think I would have even thought about putting out Killing Joke through Invisible at that time. The Invisible logo is on the album because we were managing the band. As youve mentioned, you were managing Killing Joke during your time with them. How were you able to reconcile your responsibilities to them as a band member while taking on the responsibility of steering the bands career? How did that affect the atmosphere between you and the other guys?

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I dont think there was any point where I was steering the bands career. I was trying to help with some logistics like a business plan more than a career plan. One of the things we did very quickly was get the band over to the states. I knew there was a market. I also knew that five of my favorite songs in the world were by Killing Joke, but I didnt know it! We had to get over to the states and let people know! During the recording of Extremities, we were offered a show in Geneva and a show in Warsaw. They were both for a lot of money. Financially, I thought we needed to do them. We had been trapped in the studio for eight weeks. I petitioned the idea of, Well take a break from recording, and we can start mixing while the crew are driving the equipment to Poland. Then, well fly into Polandwell miss two daysthen well carry on mixingthen the crew will drive the equipment to Genevathen well fly to Geneva. That was the kind of thing I introduced looking at logistics and making things a bit more flexible. What kind of input did John Bechdel have on the album? Well, the input I had with John was, For fucks sake, dont join this band! I remember saying to him, Look, were mates from Brian Brain, but once this stuff starts rolling, Ill say a few words but Im not going to start standing inbetween people. John was replacing a guy called Dave Dave the Keyboard Slave, who Geordie set on fire! I think Paul Ferguson poked him in the eye with a drumstick! I have a wonderful photograph somewhere of Killing Joke onstage in Baltimore. There wasnt room for keyboards onstageso we just put the keyboards in the toilet! We set up two mirrors so Dave could see around the corner of the stage so he could get the count in. This photos looks like hes playing keyboards onstage, but he isnthes in the toilet! Somebodys reaching over him to use the payphoneand were in the middle of a gig! Its fantastic!
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The keyboard position was Jazs job, so all youre ever doing was hopefully recreating Jazs vision as close as you could come, which would never be perfect. I think what John introduced was the technology. Suddenly, were not using this fucking old, temperamental stuff. We were still using them, but there were also loops and ideas and sounds going on. I think thats what he brought to the album. Are there any moments on Extremities that still resonate with you now? For North Of The Border, Jaz wanted what he described as nails on a chalkboard. I found a tin serving tray, and started scraping it on the ceiling of the studio at the Townhouse That was wild, being back at the Townhouse, since thats where I did The Flowers of Romance with PiL. We start recording this screeching sound of this tin tray, and I remember it left this silver snails trail all over the ceiling! Jaz booked three to five days in Studio B at the Townhouse, and then I negotiated the best rate ever direct with Virgin, based on, Look. I used to do the overnight sessions with PiL. Its Martin. What the fuck? I nailed the drums in ten hours. The whole album. I remember Martin Rex breaking down in tears one day while mixing Age Of Greed because of the heaviness of the lyrics. I remember the tuna melt sandwiches. I also remember leaving the control room. We were all producing the album. Martin Rex would get a good sound, and then Raven would come in and nudge the bass up. Then, Geordie would come in and go, Yeah, yeah! and nudge the guitars up. Then, Jaz would come in and nudge the keyboards up. On the first day I nudged the drums up, I thought, You know what? Im making a production decision here to sit in
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the other room. This is ridiculous! If theres just one less person nudging his own faders up, maybe thats a good thing! I remember calling Jessica Villines, who used to work at Chicago Trax, and saying, Look, we need something like, 100 POUNDS OF BEEF! She recorded that stuff and sent it over to us for Age of Greed. What led to the creation of Murder Inc.? Thats very interesting. I know that Jaz has accused me of trying to steal Killing Joke. I just accepted that as someone who felt betrayed, whatever. But the reality is, Jaz started Murder Inc. We were touring Europe when the first Gulf War was happening, and there was definitely a feeling of, Alright, Americas gone to war. Where the fuck is this going to end? I began to overhear conversations that Jaz and he wasnt trying to be private about it was reserving flights from wherever we were, maybe Vienna, to New Zealand. Because I was running the budget on the tour, Im like, Look, if you leave the tour in Vienna, some of the expenses havent been paid. Maybe there were a couple of big money shows on the end. At the end of the last day of the tour, the budgets have all been paid, the merchandise has been paid for, the buses have been paid for, the crew has been paid and thats it. But if Jaz leaves tour in Vienna, how do we get home? That was what I was looking at, and what the fuck? If you look at any three, four, five, eight-week tour, there might be periods on that tour when youre very cash light. I didnt know how we would get home from anywhere in Europe, or how we would put gas in the bus to get us back. These were clearly problems that Jaz hadnt thought about or, I think more accurately, didnt care about. I think we were all pretty disgusted.

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I called my wife at the time, Leila, and I got a phone number for Chris Connelly. I approached Chris really humbly, because at that time, Ministry were huge and Revolting Cocks were huge. I said, Chris, I know youre a fan of Killing Joke. Any day now, Jaz might just leave and I dont know how were gonna get through this. Is there any way that you would consider learning Killing Joke songs so that, if this does go down, you can jump on a plane and sing through the last ten shows and we can go home and we dont have a $20,000 debt over this? He agreed to do that. I dont know how many people even know that story. Im sure Jaz will read that and go, Oh, fuck it! But thats true. When youre on the road, anything can happen. Ive had outbreaks of spinal meningitis on the bus. Ive had people break hands, break windows, fucking heroin withdrawal, you name it. But to be on tour in wartime is ten times the anxiety. To be on tour in wartime with a singer whos prepared to ditch his band at a moments notice for his own safety is really horrible. That might have been the last straw for me. There is another layer to all of this that I want to explain. John Bechdel was involved, and Raven was on bass. I asked Paul Ferguson to come in and drum because I just had my external love affair with his drumming. I also thought it would be very interesting and weird for me socially, like Lets deal with that. Lets see what happens. Geordie is one of my all-time favorite guitarists in the world, and Chris Connelly is one of my favorite singers, so it just grew from that. But while we were all in Chicago rehearsing, we were hit with a Killing Joke debt from the merchandising company. It was substantial $20,000 or $30,000. I just thought there was no way I should be responsible for that debt, and none of us should have been responsible for that debt. I thought, Jaz is making the decision whether we play and tour or we dont, so he can have the fucking debt! Plus there was no way for me to make Killing Joke money to address a Killing Joke debt.
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I sent a fax to Jazs attorney. I dont remember what it said, but it got the result I was looking for, which was a fax from Jaz and his attorney saying, I own the name Killing Joke 100 percent. I AM KILLING JOKE! From a managerial point of view, I got exactly what I needed from Jaz and his attorney, and I faxed it to the merchandise company and said, Well, this guy and his attorney say theyre 100 percent Killing Joke. Address all financial Killing Joke problems to the office that says they are 100 percent responsible. So I can conclude that the fax I sent to them said something like, Were gonna be Killing Joke, which it clearly wouldnt be and wouldnt want to be, because Killing Joke was Killing Joke. I saw this fax again maybe two months ago, and I thought, Ah, shit! Thats the other side of the coin to my story about being at war. Jaz didnt know that the fax was the device to get rid of a $25,000 merchandising debt. I remember when that fax came through, we were all laughing and high-fiving because we strategized something and it achieved a result, but the regular guy in me certainly would want to apologize to JazTo know that everybody in your band is in Chicago recording an album, then to get that faxthats pretty horrible. On an artist-to-artist level, I would say to him, You know, this was what it was designed to do, but that was pretty ugly looking back on it, and you must have felt pretty threatened and insecure, and I apologize. But I would still say that he fucking started Murder Inc., absolutely. Have you been in touch with Jaz since those days? No. I was at a Killing Joke show in Chicago maybe two or three years ago, and I went backstage. Geordie was there, but I think Jaz had been drinking so he was still asleep or something. My deal these days is that if somebody has a problem, Im happy to go and meet them face to face and cut through the bullshit. Geordie and I spout off about each other from time to time, but I love him and I love his fucking
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guitar playing. Its unbelievable. Im way passed the point of being so nave to think that the people I make music with that resonates the most would also be the people Id love to hang out with all the time. Thats not necessarily always the case. So I went to the show, saw Geordie and hung out with him. I was downstairs at the Metro, and the agent came over to me and said, You better get out of here. Jaz knows youre here! I said, Well, tell him that Im slightly to the left of the stage down in front, and Ill be here for the next hour if hed like to come and see me. What the fuck? So, no, I havent seen him. If given the chance, would you ever consider returning to a real, true Killing Joke project? In a heartbeat. You knowIve had my label for 18 years, and I think things started to change for me when I started to teach (at Columbia College in Chicago) about three years ago. Im sure other teachers have described this experience, but when I was spouting my words of wisdom to the class maybe not words of wisdom, but at least 18 years of experience I started to feel what I was saying to these kids, and I started to listen to the advise I was giving them. When Im speaking, something happens where it goes in my brain! Ive started to spend less time dealing with idiots who dont understand or appreciate the help that Im giving them. If Im going to spend five hours arguing with somebody over a tour routing stuff that I know inside and out my tolerance for wasting my time has decreased. Amongst that three-year process, Ive also looked at the things that Ive enjoyed. Certainly, onstage if not always
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offstage Killing Joke was pretty wild. I think it had the potential to be much larger than it ever was. Look at the whole Eighties/Nirvana thingthat sound is in the nations consciousness, or a global consciousness. I think that its just attitudes within the band that prevented them from capitalizing on what they had. Just from a drumming perspective, I would love to drum with Killing Joke. I dont know if thats possible for them or for me, to just drums for Killing Joke, because I have opinions. But I dont think my opinions are detrimental to the overall cause of the band. If there was a tour that was like The Best of Killing Jokeoh my God, I would love to do that!

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A Quickie with Chris Connelly (2006) When and how were you first introduced to the music of Killing Joke? What struck you most about the bands music at the time? Chris Connelly: I bought Requiem when it first came out. I must have been 15, I suppose. I loved it I played the grooves out of that one! What struck me was the traditional rock instrumentation played in a very nontraditional way, but still being loud, blistering songs. They were one of those bands that leapt beyond punk. At that time, if you had not managed to transcend punk, you were lost in a UK Subs/Exploited time warp. Killing Joke also had a real threat behind them, mainly thanks to the music press and the hype. It was like a weird mix of thug and scientist. You first worked with Martin on the Ministry tour in 89/90. How would you best describe his drumming style, and what do you think he brings to a musical project that wouldnt otherwise be there? He's a great drummer, a loud drummer. He was playing with Bill on that tour, and for that time, they were great counterfoils, in my opinion. Martin told me that he had actually offered you a possible spot in Killing Joke prior to the formation of Murder Inc. What was it like getting that phone call from him? I was there at the time he asked me. I was happy to be asked, but I am a very different vocalist from Jaz. It was rather overwhelming to think of learning all these lyrics, and
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begging for acceptance from a very loyal fan base. I was apprehensive and not too sure one has to treat other peoples music with a lot of sensitivity and empathy. I am not that guy to just go, Sure, I can do that. No problem. I have a lot of respect for Jaz Coleman. He is not just a vocalist. What do you think you brought to the music of Murder Inc. that perhaps wouldn't have been there had Jaz been involved? Silly question. Listen to it that's me. I do not write or sing like Jaz. I cannot write or sing like anyone else, really. It has been both my strongest and weakest point in a weird way. I sometimes wish I could be this chameleon that slips into a mold, but I am stuck with me. When I collaborate, I always try and approach the material with a view to understanding what the others are saying, but whilst not trying to be anyone else at that time. There was certainly an interesting assortment of personalities in Murder Inc. How would you best describe your working relationship with Raven, Geordie, John, Martin and Big Paul on that album? From what I remember, it was a really good-natured experience. I love all of these lads. We were in the middle of the country, sharing bedrooms, drinking a lot of beer and smoking pot. They had more of a history together than with me, but everyone wanted to make it work. Ultimately, why do you feel Murder Inc. didnt survive beyond that first album?

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There may be many reasons, not all of them nice. Ultimately, we all lived very different lives and had many other commitments. Would you welcome the opportunity to work with this lineup of players again? Actually, yes. I would love it! How would you compare working with Geordie and Martin again in the Damage Manual to your experiences with them in Murder Inc.? Thats kind of tough. The Damage Manual was...complex. I wrote and recorded my contributions to the project pretty much alone, without interacting with the band which, actually, was similar to Murder Inc. Its rare that I solicit input regarding my singing, and I never solicit input on lyrics, and I don't like jamming. When the album was recorded, prior to mixing, the band met for the first time. Very disparate characterstoo disparate for it to work. Although I personally enjoyed myself, the friction was unbearable. Youve worked with Martin a lot over the years. From a collaborative standpoint, what does Martin offer you that you haven't found working with another musician? Well, hes Martin, so hes different than any other musician. He rarely questions what I do, and has open ears and generally will go out of his way to make a situation work if it appears unworkable. I also do appreciate that he is British. There is a very shared and similar sense of humor, and thats always essential!

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Troy Gregorys Fanboy Heaven (2006) How did you end up playing bass in Killing Joke? Troy Gregory: Geordie married a girl from around the area. It was really funny, because my wife was working at this bar, and she said to me, The guitar player from Killing Joke was there today. I was like, Theyre not in town! I had met Geordie and pretty much everybody else in Killing Joke, but only as a fanboy, really. I went and saw than a bunch of times, and they were always hanging out. Theyre very easy to approach. I hung out with them all night in New York once when those guys were playing in Murder Inc., so Geordie remembered me when I saw him in Detroit. My wife and I had dinner with him and his wife a couple of times, and they were always there in the bar in the morning. Wed hang around at the house and talk about music Can and shit like that. Geordie and I hit it off. One day, my wife says, Geordie called, and he wants you to call him. Its about a possible gig. I called him up and he said, Youth cant do this tour. At first, they werent sure who they were going to use for drums. Geordie came over and jammed with my brother and me, with my brother playing drums. My brother was disappointed, because it looked like he was going to be able to go at first, but Geoff Dugmore was available. They had worked with Geoff before, and I dont think they wanted to mess up the lineup too much. Geordie came over and we ran through songs. He said, Do you want to do this tour? We can pay you $1000 a week. Im like, Holy shit! I was working at a record store for nothing. I had never gotten paid that much before, and we really needed the money. Plus I just love that band. Dirt was the last Killing Joke record I bought. I didnt hear anything off of Pandemonium, and then they had this new record (Democracy). Geordie didnt let me know which songs they were going to play. He was like, Well sort it when were
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there. We flew to England, and at some point during the flight I got really, really sick. I eventually had pneumonia a couple of years later, but I think I had the same symptoms back then. When I got off the plane, we went to where Youths studio was at, and Jaz was there. Jaz was kind of weirded out about a Yank joining his band. It was kinda funny, because we show up and Im sick as a freaking dog, and hes all like, DRINK SOME MORE WINE! YOUVE GOT TO BE ALIVE TO BE IN KILLING JOKE! ITS ALL ABOUT DRINKING WINE AND HAVING A SPLIFF AND HAVING A GOOD TIME, MATE! And Im just ready to die more than anything. At our first rehearsal, they were like, Right, lets play Mathematics of Chaos. Im like, What the fuck is that? I wasnt really told what to learn. During that first day I jammed with him, Jaz was really looking at Geordie like, Why did you bring this fucking kid over? They really had that British schoolboy way of dealing with each other really getting on each others tits, you know? I was like, Look, will you guys just sort out what the fuck you wanna play and Ill learn the shit? Ill have it down tomorrow. Geordie was like, Hell get it. Hell get it. I remember calling my wife, and she asked, Hows it going? I said, Ah, I wanna come home! This sucks! Fortunately, their keyboard player was a big herbalist, and he gave me some weird root that I just boiled and drank. I stayed up all night learning the whole set. I came back the next day, and I felt amazing and played the set. After the first song, Jaz looks over to me and says, Oh, so you do have this. No worries. It was interesting, because I was wondering if we were going to play anything off of Dirt. I said, We should play Struggle or Inside the Termite Mound or something like that. I had it in my mind that we would do something off of each record, like Rubicon off of Brighter Than A Thousand Suns or Tabazan off of Night Time. I had all their records. I even
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bought Outside The Gate! I did get them to play Primitive, and that was cool. Actually, that was such an enjoyable tour because I hadnt done anything cushy like a bus tour in years. The idea of having a rood crew was so funny! I knew I wasnt going to join the band because I dont like to be tied down to one thing, but I must admit that I had that adolescent giddiness when we played Wardance and Change and stuff like that. Ive jammed on those songs with friends before, but to actually play the songs with them was pretty cool. Geordie is still one of my favorite guitar players. He has his own individual style. It was just this really weird vacation that I got paid for, and I got to play Killing Joke songs at night with Killing Joke. I flew (my wife) Laura out, and she was on the tour with us. Jaz was all into the idea of females being there so we didnt just act like a bunch of locker room boys. Men tend to behave a lot better with ladies around. I dont think I could ever work on a full-on record and tour with them. I wouldnt mind doing it again, but Im so caught up in my own stuff now. Ive got three bands that mean a lot to me, so to do that again would be weird. But I love them, especially Geordie. It was probably my favorite job off all the ones Ive ever had.

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Bashed Skins & Deadly Butter Knives: A Day in the Life of a Killing Joke Drummer (2005) When did you first hear Killing Joke? Ted Parsons: I heard Killing Joke when I was in high school, and I saw them on their first tour. This was around 1981. I saw them at the Channel in Boston, and I think Al Jourgensen was at that gig. I just thought they were the shit. It was punk with an attitude, but it was tight and concise and everything that I really loved in music at that time. Of all the stuff I was listening to Joy Division, Gang of Four, Stranglers Killing Joke was the bomb. That was the stuff. How did you end up sitting in that drum throne for the 2003 tour? Well, they had been talking about that thing for five years. I got a set from Raven years ago! I was like, Give me a set list and Ill learn the shit. I know half the music anyway! They had chosen about four or five drummers for the 2003 album, and I really wanted to play on that record. I practically begged them to play on that album. They were going to have all these drummers play. I think Danny from Tool was going to play on it, the System of A Down drummer, me and then Dave Grohl. But Dave Grohl came in and said, Im gonna play on the whole album or nothing. They were like, Okay. That sounds good. I was really fucking disappointed. It kinda bummed me out, but I said, What the hellIll tour with you guys! They trusted Ravens judgment, because Geordie thought Prong was crap! (laughs) I tried to play him some Prong, like Did you check this out at all? Hed be like, No. Its bollocks. Its crap. Id always call Geordie The Stereo Nazi on the bus. Hed always throw everyone elses CD out of the player and throw
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in the four tracks he really liked. He was like a little kid, playing the four tracks he liked over and over and over again for like three months! What was it like having to recreate those Ferguson drum patterns? Those guys always ragged on Paul Ferguson for being a crappy drummer, but I just thats bad vibes and bad blood going on. I loved playing that stuff! That, to me, was the meat and potatoes of Killing Joke, along with Geordies sound. With me, it was like, Okay, how do I reproduce this stuff? I guess I played a bit sharper and with more of a metal approach. I actually met Ferguson back in 95/96, and I used to hang out with him and pick his brain about stuff. Actually, I think Geordie would come up with a lot of suggestions for the drumming. In fact, that was the case with fifty to sixty percent of Paul Fergusons drumming. What was your most memorable experience from that tour? I think there were a couple of nights there that were just supersonic and I was in Heaven. I thought, This is kind of like the pinnacle of my drumming career! We played the London Astoria, and I thought the second night was one of the best performances ever. Also, just getting the praise from the bandJaz was always telling Raven that there was really good tension going on between him and me. But I think one of the more humorous things was when Jaz threatened to kill us all on a ferry, and he was threatening us with a plastic butter knife! Jaz would just get insane. Hes be like, Im gonna kill you all! Some nights, hed get so out-of-his-mind blotto drunk that I dont think he knew what he was saying.

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Was there anything in particular that led to the knife coming out? I think the alcohol. Years ago, Jaz came out to the house that I was living at with Prong. Tommy Victor and I were massive Killing Joke fans. We really respected Jaz and the band. I was out that day, but Tommy later told me, You missed it. Jaz Coleman was here! I said, What was he like? Tell me about it! Tommy said, Actually, I was really disappointed. I thought he was really pompous and really arrogant. He was saying to Tommy, NOBODY BEATS KILLING JOKE FOR DRINKING, OR FIGHTING, OR THE BEST MUSIC! I said, Well, that is kind of disappointing, but Coleman is just like that. Hes super confident about what he does, but some people might misconstrue that as being a bit vain and a bit self-indulgent. Coleman is a classic. He really is. Hes insanehes brilliant! I interviewed him back in 2000. Fascinating guy. He really is. Jaz comes from genius genes. His brothers literally a rocket scientist who lectures at MIT and all over the world at universities about physics and all this mindblowing stuff. Its in the family genes, I think. And the classical music that Jaz composesI mean, I had a hard time trying to learn some of the arrangements to some of the songs! I had to cram for two weeks before I went over to Prague. Jaz scoring stuff for a 150-piece orchestra? I cant even fathom that!

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