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Jim Carew e-mail: shamus13@aol.com

Dear Jim, The SP77 Fossil Power Plant Standard Committee met in Orlando, Fl. on 7/11/01 and one issued discussed was your (Chair SP5.1) comments to the SP77 committee proposals for the inclusion of SAMA PMC 22.1 into ISA-dS5.1. The following SP77 committees rebuttals were prepared in response to your comments or action items. SP77 proposals previously accepted, accepted in principle, or were rejected but do not directly relate to functional diagrams are not included in this rebuttal. (Note: Jim Carews comments to the SP77 proposals are not included but can be found in Jims replies to draft #4 comments.) I am willing to chair the technical report for functional diagrams per our previous e-mail messages (12/19/00). However, there is no agreement on the scope of these technical reports. I am willing to draft a report on the subject of functional diagrams and not a report on schematic loop diagrams, electric diagrams or instrument symbols and identification etc. I would like to make this report to be industry neutral and inclusive of other international standards. If this scope becomes unworkable then, I am willing to narrow the scope to functional diagrams for the US Power Industry. Is this acceptable?

Daniel Lee ABB SP77 Liaison

Preface Comment #8- Revised Paragraph for SAMA Rebuttal: The SP77 comments were based on the fact that several term used in this paragraph are inconsistent with the terms used in the documents (e.g., bubble diagrams, instrument functional diagrams, and application software diagram). There needs to be consistent terminology. For consistency, the terms proposed should be from the title of section 9.0, Table 10, and Clause 2.1.2 d). Thus the whole paragraph would read: The revision completes the adoption, with permission, of the excellent SAMA (Scientific Apparatus Makers Associations) PMC22.1 1981, Functional Diagramming of Instrument and Control Systems, a document no longer being support by SAMA but still used by many control system engineers and designers. SAMA symbols and descriptions of signal processing symbols were adapted in the 1984 revision. This revision updates the Functional Diagram symbols and Signal Processing Block symbols for diagramming of instruments, loop and application software functions. Guidelines for the applications of the symbols will be found in Clause 6, Symbol Application Guidelines.

Preface Comment #6- Delete reference to technical report Rebuttal: The SP77 committee does not believe that references to future documents should be included within the standard. Delete all reference to future technical report.

Clause 2 Comment #1 - Delete reference to technical report Rebuttal: The SP77 committee does not believe that references to future documents should be included within the standard. Delete all reference to future technical report.

Clause 4 Comment #1 - Delete Loop Identification requirement Rebuttal: No statement was made that function blocks are exclusively a part of application software functions. Function blocks may execute in an instrument when ISA-dS5.1 states "devices and functions". Function blocks will execute in systems when ISAdS5.1 states "application software". The SP77 committee agrees that Loop identifier (Figure 4.4.1) and Functional Identification (Table 5.1) is not applicable for application software. It was identified that functional identification of instrument devices is difference for application software. For example; Table 5.1 (Identification) Table 10 (Application software) A - analysis or alarm Signal generator T - Temperature Transfer

L - Level P - Pressure

Low Proportional

Therefore, delete text "and application software functions". Revise sentence to read: 4.1.4 Primary instrumentation, hardware and software devices and functions that measure, monitor, control, and calculate shall be assigned both Loop and Functional Identification.

Clause 4 Comment #3 - Delete Instrument Identification requirement Rebuttal: The SP77 committee agreed that the unique identifier(s) information is used at the schematic/configuration drawing level of documentation and not functional diagram level of documentation. Also, each supplier has a unique identifier(s) for executable algorithm that is not covered in ISA-dS5.1. Thus, either delete sub-paragraph b) or revised sub-paragraph to read " Instrument loop devices and functions, that requires or allows a user assigned unique microprocessor or computer address.

Clause 4 Comment #4 - Delete reference to technical report Rebuttal: The SP77 committee does not believe that references to future documents should be included within the standard. Delete all reference to future technical report.

Clause 6 Comment #4 - Delete clause with no should/shall requirements. Rebuttal: This comment was not review by the SP77 committee. However, Clause 6.1.4 does not provide useful information to graphic symbols or state a requirement with should or shall statement.

Clause 6 Comment #5 - Delete clause with no should/shall requirements. Rebuttal: This comment was not review by the SP77 committee. However, Clause 6.1.5 does not provide useful information to graphic symbols or state a requirement with should or shall statement.

Clause 6 Comment #7 - Delete reference to technical report Rebuttal: The SP77 committee does not believe that references to future documents should be included within the standard. Delete all reference to future technical report.

Clause 6 Comment #19 - Add ISA-dS5.2 text Rebuttal: SP77 committee waits to see and review the inclusion of S5.2 into S5.1 (draft #5).

Clause 6 Comment #22 - Revised diagrams Rebuttal: The addition of section 6.14 is to show Equivalent diagram representation for three types of diagrams (loop, functional, and electrical). However, SP77 is not sure these three diagrams show the same information. Also, there are many variation based on device verse system, based on hard panel verse soft console verse both hard and soft, and based on operation and/or applications. Thus, we need to clarify better what we are trying to document. If you have additional questions the functional diagram please contact Daniel Lee (440.585.6063). The following are answer to your questions: Questions 1: "Are not all devices in a logic diagram shown in a circle? Answer 1: Functional diagram may or may not be hardware dependent. With old hard panels, some symbols represented both function and device. With soft console, these same symbols represent only function. In functional diagrams, field input and output signal symbols have a hardware designation as I/O points to a system. All of the functional symbols of Table 9 (binary) and Table 10 (regulatory) can be used in functional diagram. In this case, a level transmitter (LT*01) inputs a signal which the software executes a signal monitor function (Table 10). Question 2: 3 position Hand-Off-Auto verses 2-position Auto-Manual. Answer 2: The functional diagram has a three position Hand-OFF-Auto selector switch that duplicates the three circles shown in draft 4. I assume the application we are trying to document is a panel mounted three-position switch? Questions 3: Use of rectangles and tag numbers should follow the rules give in Clause 4. Answer 3: The use of the rectangle is discussed later in this rebuttal and represents digital signal I/O. The tag names shown are the same names used in the loop diagram and functional diagram of draft #4. I will follow your tag naming convention. Question 4: How does one show inner (secondary) and outer (primary) loop automation in a cascade strategy? Answer 4: The functional diagram does not show the station mode transfer logic or the cascade setpoint transfer logic. This was not shown on the loop schematic or functional diagram in draft #4. This logic can be added but today offer these functions bumpless and balanceless that the logic is not necessary. Also not shown is the fault tolerance logic for bad inputs, hardware failure logic (vendor specific), or station tag (if hard panel stations). I assume the application we are trying to document has a H/A Station.

Clause 9 Comment #3 - Table 9.1 Symbol 1 Add signal line Rebuttal: The SP77 committee has no problems moving the single line to Table 7.1. However, Table 7.1 needs to be revised to read " Line Symbols" instead of "Instrument Line Symbols". All other references to old title need to be revised. Clause 9 Comment #5 - Table 9.1 symbols 3 and 4 Rebuttal: 1) The SP77 committee intended to address multi-mode controllers and discrete device drivers in the technical paper. Thus, only the generic symbol was proposed. However, for legacy diagram we agree to keep the three (single, two and three-mode) controllers in the SP5.1 document. 2) However, to handle advance algorithm, advance controller, discrete device drivers, status, etc, in the technical report, the symbol 05 needs to be more than an automatic signal processor. Thus, SP77 proposed inserting the following symbols in Table 9.1.
02 1. 2. Automatic (single mode) controller. (*) = Signal processing symbols, as required to define control algorithm, from Table 10. Rotate 90counterclockwise for horizontal diagramming. Automatic (two-mode) controller, (*) = Signal processing symbols, as required to define control algorithm, from Table 10. Rotate 90counterclockwise for horizontal diagramming. Automatic (three-mode) controller, (*) = Signal processing symbols, as required to define control algorithm, from Table 10. Rotate 90counterclockwise for horizontal diagramming.

(*) (*)
03

3.

1. 2.

(*)
3.

(*) (*)
04 1. 2.

(*) (*) (*) (*)

05

3.

(*)

1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

Automatic signal processor, Automatic controller, Discrete Device Driver, (*) = Signal processing symbol from Table 10. Rotate 90counterclockwise for horizontal diagramming.

Clause 9 Comment #14 Table 9.2 New Symbols Rebuttal: 1) The SP77 committee agreed to address status and discrete device station functions in the technical report.

2) The SP77 committee wishes to remove the Digital Transfer function from Table 9.2. The committee will address digital transfer function in the technical report. 3) You are correct in observing that the rectangle symbol was not defined in PMC 22.1 or SP5.2. PMC 22.1 does not have a symbol for a digital input or outputs. The SP77 committee polls its members and found that the rectangle was predominately used for hardware I/O. Thus, the SP77 proposal included both symbols for signal I/O. The SP77 committee polled its members and did not find any consensus for sheet to sheet connector. Thus, no sheet to sheet connector symbol was proposed. Following your method of showing options, the additional symbols to Table 7.1 are as follows:
TABLE 7.1 LINE SYMBOLS NO SYMBOL ?? (*)

APPLICATION 1. Signal input to logic diagram. 2. (*) = Statement of input. 3. (*) = Input instrument or device tag number. 4. Optional symbol:
(*)

?? (*)

1. 2. 3. 4.

Signal output to logic diagram. (*) = Statement of input. (*) = Input instrument or device tag number. Optional symbol:
(*)

Clause 10 Comment #8 - Table 10 symbols 29 Rebuttal: The SP77 committee wants to retain only the single transfer block. Functional Symbols outside the box will be covered in the technical report.
1. Output equals analog signal input that is selected by transfer. 2. Transfer actuated by external signal.

29

(State 1) M = X1 (State 2) M = X2

M
State 2 State 1

T
Transfer

X1

X2 t

Comment #10 Comment #11 -Table 10 new symbols Rebuttal: The committee agreed to address Hand/Auto station, mathematical expression, advanced controllers, and special filters in the technical report.

The following were omitted replies to S77 proposals and/or technical errors found in the replies. 1) Clause 6.17.7 is a duplication of Clause 6.17.1. Suggested the deletion of Clause 6.17.7. 2) Table 10 requires the addition of the totalizer (integrator) symbol.

xx

Q
Totalizer (Integrator)

INPUT

mo Receiver PULSES (X)

Output is a frequency, which depends upon the value of the input. The output is normally associated with a counting device displaying the time integral of the input with some initial condition at T=0.

3) For Table 10 signal monitor symbols, it is unclear what the * symbol means. The convention PMC22.1 uses the / symbol. (State 1) M = 0 @ X < H (State 2) M = 1 @ X H X M X H t1
27 State 1 State 2

26

/H
High Signal Monitor

t1

1. Output state is dependent on value of input. 2. Output changes state when input is equal to or higher than an arbitrary high limit.
1. Output state is dependent on value of input. Output changes state when input is equal to or lower than an arbitrary low limit.

L/
Low Signal Monitor

(State 1) M = 0 @ X L (State 2) M = 1 @ X > L

X X L t

M
State 1 State 2

2.

28

H/L
High/Low Signal Monitor

(State 1) M = 1 @ X L (State 2) M = 0 @ L < X > H (State 3) M = 1 @ X H

1.

2.

X X H L t

M
State State State 1 3 2

Output states are dependent on value of input. Output changes state when input is equal to or lower than an arbitrary low limit or equal to or higher than an arbitrary high limit.

4. For Table 10 velocity limiter, ISA 5.1 1984 and PMC 22.1 uses different symbols. Following your method of showing options, the additional symbols is as follows:
dM/dt = dX/dt (dX/dt H, M = X) 1. dM/dt=H

20

V
Velocity Limiter

dM/dt = H (dX/dt H, M X
dX/dt>H

X)

2.

Output equals input as long as the input rate of change does not exceed the limit value that establishes the output rate of change until the output, again equals the input. Optional symbol

t1

t2

t1

t2

V>