When thinking about how to prevent Muslims from immigrating to the West in giant hordes I came to a brilliant

realization.

Western government attempts to prevent Muslims from entering would never accomplish anything. Muslims will
always find a way in just like the Mexicans do in America. What we can do is make Muslims not want to come to the
West, by destroying their desire to come here.

How can we do that you ask?

1) Stop bombing their countries

When we bomb someones country, we tend to destroy houses and apartment blocks. We also tend to destroy their
infrastructure, kill their loved ones (which leads to radicalizing people), and most importantly we destroy their
economies. In effect we create thousands of refugee's who don't feel like their home countries can support them
anymore. Some of them become internal refugee's within their own borders, some of them go to neighboring
countries, however the crafty ones find ways to immigrate to the West.

If we never bombed their country, they would never have had a desire to come in the first place. We should devise
policies in our western democracies to adjust the foreign policy of our respective nations to ensure that the
bombing of countries containing "humans" does not occur. This way, we wont have to deal with them immigrating
to our countries.

2) Stop supporting dictatorships in their countries

Supporting military dictatorships or theocracies in countries with large Muslim populations (or populations of people
in general) builds resentment and radicalizes people. I realize that the foreign policy of western nations depends on
the use of strongmen to keep people under control (particularly people in strategic regions or regions rich in natural
resources). However, what happens is that the economies of these countries create two groups of people: The Filthy
Rich, and the Shit Poor. The Shit Poor, decide that they need to leave because there is nothing for them in their
country anymore. Many of these people end up in the West. The small class between the Filthy Rich and the Shit
Poor known as the Middle Class, cant find jobs with their engineering, or medical degree's. They also come to the
West (usually America) and bolster our ranks of professionals. (which isn't such a bad thing)

3) End Sanctions

As most educated people know, sanctions don't do shit to topple a government. In fact, sanctions are "the proof"
that governments under sanctions employ to make ordinary people believe that we hate them. While the ordinary
people of [insert sanctioned country here] cant afford the inflated price of milk, the Filthy Rich Elite are still buying
the military equipment, technology, and luxury items the sanctions were supposed to prevent them from buying.
This leads the ordinary people of a sanctioned country to seek a livelihood elsewhere. Many of these people
immigrate to the West.

4) Stop supporting countries that oppress other countries or people within their countries.

Supporting and arming a country in the invasion of another country or in the repression of a particular group of
people within their country is not a good policy. This tends to lead to the radicalization of a people, and create more
refugee's who seek entry into other countries, sometimes ending up in our countries. It also ends up destroying the
economies of their countries, which then forces them to seek jobs in other countries (such as western countries).

*I also realize that there are other factors that lead to Muslims immigrating to our countries. However, years of the
a fore mentioned policies have led to creating huge communities of Muslims in Western countries. Some of these
Muslims are going on their 3rd or 4th generation within the West. At the same time, established Muslims aid their
relatives in obtaining Visa's to immigrate to the West. This has led to Muslims becoming very comfortable here and
bragging about how great it is to be in the West in comparison to the cratered, bombed out, no economy landscape
of their youths. This bragging leads more Muslims to askew going to a neighboring country, and instead just come
to the West when its time to immigrate due to the a fore mentioned reasons.

What we can do is change our foreign policy by ending invasions, ending support for dictatorships, ending the
ridiculous use of sanctions, and curbing support for countries that repress other groups of people. This will lead to a
huge decline of Muslims immigration in the West, and happiness for everyone.

Jon shep

No need to get all butthurt Ali, anyway to adress your points very quickly (I can't be
fucked spending alot of time)

Point 1: Stop bombing thier countries also applies to fanatical Muslims too. I really
don't have to list the amount of world wide terror attacks do I carried out by
Muslims to get my point across there (besides I'd run out of room).

Point 2: The dictatorships are your peoples choice not ours so stop your people
supporting them too. A point through when we took a dictator down (Saddam) we
heard nothing but whining from Muslims so I guess alot of you like dictatorships.

Point 3: Sanctions arn't the worst thing in the world believe it or not, as an example
the sanctions imposed against Iraq helped toward the eventual removel of one of
the worlds worst dictators who just so happened to carry out attrocities against
Muslims every other day, yes the Iraqi people did suffer through sanctions but that
was more to do with the fact the Brutal dictator Saddam in cahoots with crooked UN
staff (Kofi's son and Galloway etc) were creaming all the money off the funds for
themselves, not a good thing and ceratinly it was not in the best interests of your
Muslim brothers was it.

Point 4: Stop supporting countries that oppress other countries or people within
their countries applies possibly even more so to Muslim countires then to western
nations as you tend to rally round, support and cheer on the dictators who oppress
and attack other nations as we saw with the immense amount of bitching when it
came to the removel of Mr Hussain who of course runs totally counter to your 'point
1' which is most amusing. Also lets throw in the Taliban, a bunch of radical Islamists
who oppress the people of Afganistan more then any westener could possibly dream
of! I'm sure if I had more time I could come up with a whole frickin page long list of
Muslim groups who oppress thier own people worse then any westerners could ever
dream of.
I didn't get butthurt I just stated a simple fact.

"Stop bombing thier countries also applies to fanatical Muslims too. I really don't have to list the amount of world
wide terror attacks do I carried out by Muslims to get my point across there (besides I'd run out of room)."

This has to do with immigration right? Yes there are Muslims that engage in terrorist activities but they don't even
come close to the amount of bombing that many so called western countries engage in, and that's a simple hard
fact.

"The dictatorships are your peoples choice not ours so stop your people supporting them too. A point through when
we took a dictator down (Saddam) we heard nothing but whining from Muslims so I guess alot of you like
dictatorships."

Mubarak of Egypt is kept in power with US power, Saddam was kept in power with US power, the Saudi monarchy is
kept alive with US power, Musharaf was kept up with US power, all the Khaleej countries are kept in power with US
naval power, wow I could go on forever. This doesent even just apply to Muslim countries, we can take this to South
America as well.

"Sanctions arn't the worst thing in the world believe it or not"

Really, the death of 1 million Iraq's over a 10 year period isint that bad? wow you are really sick.

"as an example the sanctions imposed against Iraq helped toward the eventual removel of one of the worlds worst
dictators"

No, the sanctions led to the death of 100,000's of Iraqi children. It also led to a malnutrition crisis so terrible that
Iraqi's are on average inches shorter than they used to be. Not to mention the other non-cosmetic effects
malnutrition brings upon growing children such as blindness, brain damage, etc.

"yes the Iraqi people did suffer through sanctions but that was more to do with the fact the Brutal dictator Saddam
in cahoots with crooked UN staff (Kofi's son and Galloway etc)"

Yes, as I recall Saddam was the crooked dictator that the West propped up and supported with billions of dollars.
When he was killing as you say "my Muslim brothers" with American weapons and support it was all good right?

"Also lets throw in the Taliban, a bunch of radical Islamists who oppress the people of Afganistan more then any
westener could possibly dream of!"

Did you forget??? Its the West that enabled the Taliban to exist. Giving weapons to extremists, to fight OUR enemies
and then thinking they could just walk away, after the country had been leveled 10 times over. What kind of retard
strategy was that? The United States not only funded these groups, they glorified them in the press and media (just
watch the ending of Rambo 3).

"I'm sure if I had more time I could come up with a whole frickin page long list of Muslim groups who oppress thier
own people worse then any westerners could ever dream of."

And I can guarantee you that the majority of them were supported by the West, put in power by the West, or both.

All of your examples only further my point.

Seriously, you guys want to end Muslim immigration right? Then heed the strategy I proposed. Also, don't act like
you don't have time for this, you want to end Muslim immigration you better have the argument down pat against
people like me. I mean you want to convince people right?
Ok as I'm very board so I will try to address each point for you.

"This has to do with immigration right? Yes there are Muslims that engage in
terrorist activities but they don't even come close to the amount of bombing that
many so called western countries engage in, and that's a simple hard fact."

Yes us evil westies do drop alot of bombs, however if you actually knew anything
about the way ordnance is dropped and the way ROE are formed you would realise
we do not target the innocent deliberatly which is quite the opposite of what
fanatical muslims do. I'm sure you noticed during the high points (in terms of terror
activity) of the current Iraq war and also all around the world in India, Afghanistan,
Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, Thailand, Iran, infact just about everywhere recently the
amount of bombings carried out by radical Islamists that are deliberatly aimed at
civilians, be it markets, trains, mosques, shops selling western goods, other muslims
etc etc, see my point now? See where I'm going with this, infact I'm willing to put
money on it that your own people kill more of thier own then us lot.

Next point:

"Mubarak of Egypt is kept in power with US power, Saddam was kept in power with
US power, the Saudi monarchy is kept alive with US power, Musharaf was kept up
with US power, all the Khaleej countries are kept in power with US naval power, wow
I could go on forever. This doesent even just apply to Muslim countries, we can take
this to South America as well."

Rubbish to say we keep them in power, there own god damn people do it, not the
CIA or Mossad or whichever else silly conspiricy theory. You lot need to fucking well
rise up and take these oppressors down then instead of blaming us for your religious
police states but i have a feeling its pointless to debate this with you as you
seriously seem totally wrapped up in conspiricy bullshit to be quite frank. I will ask
you this: if you think the US controls all these countries and we imagine the US
being destroyed over night do you think the people in these countries controlled by
the US would suddenly be free? No of course not things would carry on the same,
your fellow muslims would still be oppressed by thier own leaders as thats thier
method of keeping themselves in power.

Point 3:
"No, the sanctions led to the death of 100,000's of Iraqi children. It also led to a
malnutrition crisis so terrible that Iraqi's are on average inches shorter than they
used to be. Not to mention the other non-cosmetic effects malnutrition brings upon
growing children such as blindness, brain damage, etc."

Yes and you want to know why so many died? Blame your beloved Saddam for
taking money out of the sanctions fund to use for himself and his crooked pals to
keep themselves in the luxury lifestyle. Its a documented fact it happened and its
effects where extremely bad for the Iraqi people which brings us on to why
sanctions were imposed in the first place which if you don't know why the UN felt
justified to impose them I would suggest learning some history about Mr Hussains
rule, to say he was a complete asshole (to Muslims mainly)would be a complete
understatement.

Point4:

"Did you forget??? Its the West that enabled the Taliban to exist. Giving weapons to
extremists, to fight OUR enemies and then thinking they could just walk away, after
the country had been leveled 10 times over. What kind of retard strategy was that?
The United States not only funded these groups, they glorified them in the press
and media (just watch the ending of Rambo 3)."

Again history lessons kid, they are your friend. Allow me to explain a bit in brief
though. The taliban were in existance long before uncle samn decided to help, yes
help them and thier muslim brothers thawrt the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan,
which to be fair isn't actually where the taliban are from. Not only did just the US
gloryfy the taliban but the whole freakin world did after they forced the Soviets out
(which would have been very different had the US not funded them). Of course after
the Soviets had gone from Afghanistan your heroic taliban decided to take over
Afghanistan spreading death and misery to al in thier path...

Point 5:
"Seriously, you guys want to end Muslim immigration right? Then heed the strategy
I proposed. Also, don't act like you don't have time for this, you want to end Muslim
immigration you better have the argument down pat against people like me. I mean
you want to convince people right?"
To be honest the immigration thing dosn't bother me, I just joined yesterday to
make a comment then decided to respond to your point but yeah I agree with you to
a point. Immigration would slow right down and our services here wouldn't be as
burdened as they are (NHS) but the change has really got to come from you lot,
more especially your leaders and the way they operate. Its no good blaming
everyone else for your own problems and covering up your own faults with childish
conspiricy theories (America is in controll of Arab countries etc etc).
Have a good day.
Sorry I missed one area out,
"Yes, as I recall Saddam was the crooked dictator that the West propped up and
supported with billions of dollars. When he was killing as you say "my Muslim
brothers" with American weapons and support it was all good right?"
Just briefly I would suggest you look up the amount of sales from America vs sales from
other nations in regards to post 1990 (important time) weapons sales to Iraq. To be brief the
amount of weapons America sold Saddams regime was miniscule in comparison to European
and Russian and Chinese sales to Saddam, infact I have a feeling even Brazil was selling him
more arms then America...
As a point about WMD, you will find again that most of if not all the equipment needed to
produce the shit was proccured from Europe but thatsanother matter. As for financial
funding I will admit i'm really not to sure on that.
Anyway the wests support soon faded for Saddams brutal regime in may countries such as
America and Britain which brings me to another point really which is if you are so hatefull of
the wests support for Saddam shouldn't you have been pleased, your kinda stuck between a
rock and a hard place I think in that you hate us for supporting the dictators and moan when
we sell or fund them stuff yet you wince and whine when we topple them and install more
human rights friendly governments...
"Yes us evil westies do drop alot of bombs, however if you actually knew anything about the way ordnance is
dropped and the way ROE are formed you would realise we do not target the innocent deliberatly which is quite the
opposite of what fanatical muslims do."

That may be so Jon, however, it does not change the fact that innocents die in the thousands from these so called
"smart-bombs." No one here is saying that people who bomb innocent civilians is innocent. However so called
"fanatical Muslims" do not come even close to killing as many people as other groups of people. Muslims who bomb
innocents are condemned by every single major mainstream Muslim organization on the face of the planet.

"Rubbish to say we keep them in power, there own god damn people do it, not the CIA or Mossad or whichever else
silly conspiricy theory. You lot need to fucking well rise up and take these oppressors down then instead of blaming
us for your religious police states but i have a feeling its pointless to debate this with you as you seriously seem
totally wrapped up in conspiricy bullshit to be quite frank"

Where did I mention the CIA or Mossad? The propping up and maintance of these dictatorships is transparent for
the whole world to see. I lived in Egypt for a complete year, I know who keeps the Mubarak government afloat,
actually the whole world does. Every Egyptian despises Mubarak and the free-market reforms pushed on them by
the West. This is no conspiracy theory my friend, go read a few books, or go read the United States own report on
the matter. The people of these countries do not keep their dictators in power, you better believe that. In many of
these countries, the West plays a strong hand in maintaining these dictators, that is a simple fact get used to it.

Also you did not address the other countries I mentioned. Saudi Arabia? Khaleej states? Sukarno in Indonesia? Zia Al
Haq in Pakistan, the list is endless homeboy, this is common information not conspiracy bullshit, you labeling it as
such doesn't change the fact.

"Blame your beloved Saddam for taking money out of the sanctions fund to use for himself and his crooked pals to
keep themselves in the luxury lifestyle."

I dont think anybody cares how Saddam messed with the U.N sanction fund to divert money away from his own
people. The fact is that even when we realized that this was the case, we made the sanctions even harsher,
creating even more misery for common Iraqis. Also don't talk to me as if I like Saddam or any Muslim likes Saddam,
no one in the Muslim world likes Saddam, I will repeat that NO ONE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD LIKES SADDAM. Now
that you understand that, it is imperative that you realize that the sanctions led to the death and crippling of
millions of Iraqis. This is a crime against humanity, and you should be ashamed of supporting this crime.

"The taliban were in existance long before uncle samn decided to help, yes help them and thier muslim brothers
thawrt the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which to be fair isn't actually where the taliban are from. Not only did just
the US gloryfy the taliban but the whole freakin world did after they forced the Soviets out (which would have been
very different had the US not funded them). Of course after the Soviets had gone from Afghanistan your heroic
taliban decided to take over Afghanistan spreading death and misery to al in thier path..."

Where do I even begin with this garbage? Ok, the Soviets came to help the fledgling Marxists in Afghanistan who
were giving equal rights to women and all that stuff right? Then a resistance movement began amongst the people
of Afghanistan, the Soviets moved in to help a fellow communist ally etc. Anyway, America gets pissed because if
the Soviets get Afghanistan as an ally that means the Soviets will be right next to the Persian Gulf and could
potentially have access to 40% of the worlds oil supply. So, the West with Saudi financing, and Pakistani logistics
gave money to various Mujaheedeen groups, and encouraged Muslims from all over the world to fight in
Afghanistan.

Guess what happened after that???? All these Muslims studied in hardcore Wahabi/Salafi schools funded by
America's favorite Wahabi theocracy/monarchy/oligarchy (Saudi Arabia). Anyway when these guys were suicide
bombing Soviet troops, they were praised for their bravery. When the war was over we just left them and their
cratered country to the wolves. What do you think happened? We left Afghanistan with hundreds of thousands of
battle hardened heavy weapons trained fighters. This is not even considering the 100,000 foreign Muslims with
years of battle experience shooting down airplanes, blowing up tanks, and hand to hand combat with Soviet
soldiers. Most of them were not allowed to go back to their home countries for fear that they may try to overthrow
their governments. It was only natural that the country turned to warlordism and extremism and eventual all out
civil war. Eventually the most disciplined group of all emerged as victor; the Taliban. Most people hate the Taliban in
the Muslim world (this is a fact, I'll repeat it again if you need me to), however, many Afghans were happy to have
security after more than 30 years of non stop war. Thats the story of Afghanistan, and how we in the West helped
create that demon. Oh yea, forgot to mention that we almost signed a gasline deal with the Taliban as well, those
homies were here in the United States about to sign the papers and everything, less than year before 9/11.
"to be brief the amount of weapons America sold Saddams regime was miniscule in comparison to European and
Russian and Chinese sales to Saddam, infact I have a feeling even Brazil was selling him more arms then
America..."
Seriously, does that change the fact that the WEST sold weapons to Saddam, hung out with him in his palaces, and
gave their blessings when he was gassing the Kurds and the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war? At the same time,
the West allowed arms sales to Saddam from all these countries while denying those same arm sales to Iran. Iran
was forced to buy most of its equipment on the black market, Iraq even got subsidized equipment from us.

*In anycase I believe you suffer from a mindset in which you believe the Muslim world is this giant monolith. We are
not, each part of the Muslim world, each country in the Muslim world, each city and village in the Muslim world
suffers from different problems that are exclusive to that particular entity. I am of mixed descent, both my parents
are Muslims from different countries but they view the world and Islam differently. Tatar Muslims in Russia have
different priorities than Hui Muslims in China and they view the world in a different way, speak a different language,
and have different opinions on Islam. You need to look at the real problems affecting people and take steps to
handle those problems. I guarantee you that most of the problems stem from economics and social inequalities.
Believe me Jon, there is no giant Muslim conspiracy to take over their world, just like their is no Western or Jewish
conspiracy to enslave the entire Muslim world. Its all about power, you know that.

Hope you get bored again so we can eventually find some common ground =P

Jon shep

I'll be honest with you that I don't have alot of time to reply and any reply I do give i
will expect you'll correct me in your own 'special' way anyway so its all kind of
pointless. However I will take a couple of lines you wrote as proof positive of your
backward, decietfull thinking.
First up we have this gem of a line ", I will repeat that NO ONE IN THE MUSLIM
WORLD LIKES SADDAM" what does this line tell us about you Ali? It tells us you are
deeply in denial about certain important facts and willing to twist the truth to such
an extent it becomes ludicrus. To say no muslims approved or liked Saddam is like
saying no Americans approve or like Obama or no British people approved of
Winston Churchill. Its almost beyond all words what a stupid statement that was you
made and like I say proves the delusional thoughts you hold.
Then we have this other little gem "I dont think anybody cares how Saddam messed
with the U.N sanction fund to divert money away from his own people" ,this one line
shows your lack of understanding of the sanctions proccess and how Saddam
twisted it to his own benifit, also it is possibly the greatest scam ever pulled off
against the U.N yet you claim 'nobody cared' which is a blatent lie. I also found it
interesting how you thought not to mention Mr Hussain was the cause of these
sanctions in the first place due to crimes against people who are funnily enough
Muslims, interesting but no suprise I guess...
next up we have this line "Muslims who bomb innocents are condemned by every
single major mainstream Muslim organization on the face of the planet." yeah? care
to show me these condemnations? I sure as hell have never ever seen one and I'm
willing to bet you cannot provide me with a link to any either. Up next (I'm getting
bored) we have this statement "Seriously, does that change the fact that the WEST
sold weapons to Saddam, hung out with him in his palaces, and gave their blessings
when he was gassing the Kurds and the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war? At the
same time, the West allowed arms sales to Saddam from all these countries while
denying those same arm sales to Iran. Iran was forced to buy most of its equipment
on the black market, Iraq even got subsidized equipment from us." So the fact that
most (99%) of other wmd capable countries in the world managed not to use them
on thier own people or neighbouring countries conveniantly escapes you, my point
being Saddam was not forced to use these weapons at all, it was all his own choice
but I guess its tough to criticse a Muslim when its so much easier to blame the
people in the west who sold him the stuff. Get my point now? (I somehow doubt it)
Last of all we have this rambling paragraph from you which said "Where do I even
begin with this garbage? Ok, the Soviets came to help the fledgling Marxists in
Afghanistan who were giving equal rights to women and all that stuff right? Then a
resistance movement began amongst the people of Afghanistan, the Soviets moved
in to help a fellow communist ally etc. Anyway, America gets pissed because if the
Soviets get Afghanistan as an ally that means the Soviets will be right next to the
Persian Gulf and could potentially have access to 40% of the worlds oil supply. So,
the West with Saudi financing, and Pakistani logistics gave money to various
Mujaheedeen groups, and encouraged Muslims from all over the world to fight in
Afghanistan." Ii will explain this to you one last time as basicly as I can. The soviets
invaded the nation (muslim nation) of Afghanistan, the mudjahadeen tried to stop
them and we helped the mudj with supplies and finances. Then after many years of
extremely tough fighting for the Soviets they decided to withdraw having lost to
much money and resources in their little adventure into Afghanistan. Thats basically
it in short. where you got this crap about Soviets going into assist people I don't
know as it was a plain and simple power and land grab that went wrong for them.
Now would the Muslim Mudjahadeen been able to push the Soviets out without the
help of America and rich Saudis? (mr Bin Laden) Its very very doubtfull and almost
certain they would have lost that land to the Soviets. Again we in the west helped
them and if you think it was a bad thing to prevent a Soviet takeover of Afghanistan
then your frankly stupid. I really don't understand how you blame the West for
radical Islam getting such a grip over Afganistan after the conflict was over and the
Soviets had left either, I mean thats not our fault if muslims are sending kids to
madrasses and teaching them to be suicide bombers, they were doing that long
before 9/11 so don't try and tell me thats why either. Of course I fully expect you to
come up with some crackpot theory of why its the wests fault young muslims in that
region are being radicalised so much instead of looking to those you stongly defend.
Then we have you botching about Rich saudis too and I ask what the fuck do you
want us to do about it? bomb them? You;d surely bitch and moan then, oh and who
do you suppose runs Saudi Arabia once we have bombed the ruling elite out? You
have no answer I bet. Also I again noticed how you choose not to blame any funding
of Islamic radicals on Saudis themselves but twist it so it becomes the wests fault
for buying oil off the Saudis hence making them rich so they can fund radical Islam
instead of actually thinking 'why are the Saudis doing this and we should speak out
about it' but I guess its just too easy to blame the west for thier wrongdoings eh.

Now I've pointed out just how illogical, deceitfull and warped your thinking really is I
don't think I will bother coming back to discuss this with you again, have a good
day.

"I'll be honest with you that I don't have alot of time to reply and any reply I do give i will expect you'll correct me in
your own 'special' way anyway so its all kind of pointless."

Don't have a lot of time? Yet you wrote dozens of lines of garbage without even inserting paragraphs. What does
responding in my special way even mean? And you still haven't addressed any of the issues.

"NO ONE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD LIKES SADDAM" what does this line tell us about you Ali? It tells us you are deeply
in denial about certain important facts and willing to twist the truth to such an extent it becomes ludicrus."

Its a true statement homeboy, Saddam was hated in the Muslim world. He may have become slightly more popular
after the U.S invasion but if you watch any news channels in the Middle East you will see that he is hated for
slaughtering countless Muslims. This is not even taking into consideration his invasion of Kuwait which sealed the
deal for him.

You can't even compare this to people in America liking Obama. The amount of Muslims who liked Saddam world
wide was less than a percentage point. The one with delusions and experiencing denial is you Shep, not I.

"Then we have this other little gem "I dont think anybody cares how Saddam messed with the U.N sanction fund to
divert money away from his own people" ,this one line shows your lack of understanding of the sanctions proccess
and how Saddam twisted it to his own benifit, also it is possibly the greatest scam ever pulled off against the U.N
yet you claim 'nobody cared' which is a blatent lie."

Looks like you twisted my words Shep. Everyone knew that Saddam was using the U.N fund for his own ends.
EVERYONE, yet the sanctions got heavier and heavier. When Madeleine Albright (Secretary of State under Clinton)
was asked if the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children was worth it, she replied "yes." So seriously Shep,
the simple fact is the West did not care and even knew what the sanctions were doing. After all he was put in power
by them and kept in power by them for more than a decade.

"I also found it interesting how you thought not to mention Mr Hussain was the cause of these sanctions in the first
place due to crimes against people who are funnily enough Muslims, interesting but no suprise I guess..."

I have no idea what you are even yammering about here.

""Muslims who bomb innocents are condemned by every single major mainstream Muslim organization on the face
of the planet." yeah? care to show me these condemnations? I sure as hell have never ever seen one and I'm willing
to bet you cannot provide me with a link to any either."

You are seriously joking right? No seriously, you are joking right?

http://www.whyislam.org/SocialOrder/CondemnationofTerrorism/tabid/126/Default.aspx

I just did a quick Google search and found that. Everyone from the Sharif of Mecca, to the scholars of Al Azhar have
condemned attacks on civilians. Your statement just makes me believe that you are either just lazy, or simply racist.

"So the fact that most (99%) of other wmd capable countries in the world managed not to use them on thier own
people or neighbouring countries conveniantly escapes you, my point being Saddam was not forced to use these
weapons at all, it was all his own choice but I guess its tough to criticse a Muslim when its so much easier to blame
the people in the west who sold him the stuff. Get my point now? (I somehow doubt it)"

What WMD are you talking about? Unless you actually believe that mustard gas (something we can all make in our
laundry room, with common household items) is a WMD. You also forget that not only was the United States
instigating the Iran-Iraq war they were even providing the Iraqi's with training and satellite images of Iranian
movements. The entire war was a proxy war but I guess proxy war to "you" only applies when Iran does it. And it
still does not change the fact that we in the West sold weapons to a cruel dictator that we put in power.

"where you got this crap about Soviets going into assist people I don't know as it was a plain and simple power and
land grab that went wrong for them."

Yes, it was a land grab under a pretext. It was exactly the same thing that we westerners do when we want to
invade a country and take their resources. Technically speaking, the Soviets were merely assisting a fellow Marxist
government.

"Now would the Muslim Mudjahadeen been able to push the Soviets out without the help of America and rich
Saudis? (mr Bin Laden) Its very very doubtfull and almost certain they would have lost that land to the Soviets."

Yes, I completely agree with you. However, the Soviets were not looking to annex Afghanistan, they wanted to
maintain a Marxist government in Afghanistan that would be friendly to them. The same exact thing we are doing in
Iraq and Afghanistan.

"I really don't understand how you blame the West for radical Islam getting such a grip over Afganistan after the
conflict was over and the Soviets had left either, I mean thats not our fault if muslims are sending kids to madrasses
and teaching them to be suicide bombers, they were doing that long before 9/11 so don't try and tell me thats why
either. Of course I fully expect you to come up with some crackpot theory of why its the wests fault young muslims
in that region are being radicalised"

OK, Shep, stop for a second. These radical madrassahs (which just mean schools btw) were the minority form of
education at the time. After the U.S found that these "radical Muslims" were the most efficient fighters they began
asking the Pakistani's to send more weapons to the radical groups, which made these radical groups increasingly
recruit from the radical schools. The schools taught a hard line form of Islam that combined the strictest
interpretations of the Sunnah with the honor code known as Pushtunwali (look it up). This is not a crackpot theory,
this is reality. Why were their not crazy Muslims running around prior to this? There was no militant Islam on a
serious scale until after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. That's a simple fact, and our tax dollars in the West
helped create this new demon.

"Then we have you botching about Rich saudis too and I ask what the fuck do you want us to do about it? bomb
them? You;d surely bitch and moan then, oh and who do you suppose runs Saudi Arabia once we have bombed the
ruling elite out? You have no answer I bet."

Uhm.... wow, how about we be even handed in our approach to them. When Iran violates human rights we are all
over their asses. When Saudi Arabia does it we look the other way. Why is that? Does that not tell you something?
Exactly, its all politics. Their is no "Muslim enemy," there are just Muslims who wont give us their oil and their are
Muslims who will bail out our economies (The Khaleej).

"Now I've pointed out just how illogical, deceitfull and warped your thinking really is I don't think I will bother
coming back to discuss this with you again, have a good day."

Yes, now that your arguement has been destroyed and exposed for all the lovely people on facebook to see, your
going to pretend that you won and walk away. In all fairness, there is just criticism that should be leveled at certain
countries in the Muslim world. However, you treat all Muslims as if they are part of some giant monolith with one
way of seeing the world. This is why all of your arguments will always fall flat on its face.

The sad fact is that the majority of people that joined this group are fearful of a few hundred bearded men sitting in
dark caves who take orders from a man that's probably stuck to a dialysis machine. They have no weapons, and are
only capable of creating grainy YouTube videos which seem to scare the shit out of you guys. Cmon, seriously, you
guys, take a chill pill and try to understand what the real problems in the region are. Read a few books, travel to a
Muslim country and try to understand that things are a little more complicated than "them" and "us."

I'm not going to waste futher time with you Ali as you sir are cleary a deluded fool
and I will leave this classic line you wrote as proof "I will repeat that NO ONE IN THE
MUSLIM WORLD LIKES SADDAM" (sniggers).
Enjoy keep blaming the west for your religions and your beloved loser countries ill
and problems, your not very good at it but it keeps you happy I guess. Have a good
day.

Aside from a handful of Tikritis (you probably don't even know what that means; and you'll scramble to do a google
search to look it up) no one in the Muslim world likes Saddam. Why don't you go to the Muslim world country by
country and take a poll like has been done in the past on this issue. An overwhelming majority of Muslims upwards
of 99% have a dislike of Saddam, or don't even know who he is.

"you Ali as you sir are cleary a deluded fool"

You cant handle my argument so you resorted to name calling?

"Enjoy keep blaming the west for your religions and your beloved loser countries ill and problems, your not very
good at it but it keeps you happy I guess. Have a good day."

Please don't use that racist tone with me. I am a westerner, born and raised here. When I say what I say, I'm saying
it out of love for the country I was raised in. I only want what is best for the United States of America and the rest of
the world. I sincerely believe that the policies I outlined above will aid in creating a better world for all of us on this
small planet. The Muslim world has problems, yes, that's true. However, the Western world, in particular the United
States of America, as the sole hyperpower also engages in activities that exacerbate those problems or create
entirely new ones. If you can't be critical of yourself Sheppy, then we are all fucked.

All your arguments stem from racism or ignorance, that much has been exposed.