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Complete Guide: Proper Shimming - Filipino Airsoft (FAS) - Forum

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Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

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Majinbu
Airsofter

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: in your dreams! Posts: 3,116

Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Complete Guide: Proper Shimming


By majinbu

SHIMMING OBJECTIVES Pinion-Bevel Gears this is the most important objective: to eliminate noise that is coming from these gears beyond the adjustment of the motor height. Failure to properly set the mating between pinion and bevel gears makes noise that (not only eerie to the ears but) is found to cause damages to gears, cause the overheating of motor, overheating wires, excessive power lose due to stress, and etc. Over-all GearSet Alignment this is what most has taken for granted: the entire gearset must seat on the gearbox in the most centered as possible. However, this crucial alignment is dependent on the mating of the pinion and the bevel gears the rest will follow by setting a hairline gap in between the faces of each gears. Cut-off Lever and Tappet Plate professional shimming is done with the extreme consideration of the cut-off lever and the tappet plate. When cut-off lever is taken for granted during shimming, chances are that your semi-shooting mode will no longer function, if not problematic; when tappet plate is taken for granted, chances are that you are not giving the tappet plate enough room to play beside the sector gear which will cause the plate to stack-up and not move as the cycle goes. Gears has Faces have you noticed some gear faces with scratches, often at spur gear? The gunsmith failed to give enough room between the face of the sector and spur gears; this problem and inconsideration results to unexplained noise heard from outside. Therefore during shimming, another noteworthy objective is to ensure that the faces of the gears have enough hairline space in

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3/10/2012 1:43 AM

Complete Guide: Proper Shimming - Filipino Airsoft (FAS) - Forum

http://www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106134

between to avoid the discomfort it may cause later on. Wobbling this is the most common answer as to why shimming is important and yet it is at the least of our priority reading again the complications of the above objectives makes you well informed now as to why shimming is important, right? Well, of course it is important to eliminate wobbling since it gives more stress to each gears unevenly that results to breakage. This is the lateral setting of gears to ensure that gearset (or a gear) will not move left and right during operation/cycle. When the gears used is helical gearsets, this is the most important thing to consider though as helical gearsets has slanted teeth that perfect shimming is necessary in order to attain the right angle of mating not only the mating itself but the angle of mating for each gears.

BASIC REQUIREMENTS - be able to assemble/disassemble gearbox for more than a dozen times, - be able to indentify parts and its purpose, - has the needed tools for the task,

INITIAL STAGE - gearbox is currently open, - all the internal parts are removed except for the switch assembly,

IDENTIFICATION OF PARTS Bevel Gear (BeG) is the gear that contacts with the pinion gear on the motor, the lowest gear from the main spring, the smallest

gear, and the most critical gear among your set of gears; Spur Gear (SpG) Sector Gear (SeG) is the biggest gear, located in the middle, the first to be set, and is the torque-transfer gear; is the top-most gear, the gear the contacts with the piston body, yaw pin and the tappet plate, and is the

tweak-able among the gears; Shims (S) there are different kinds of shims in terms of its diameter and thickness (0.1, 0.2... and small and large in diameter)

*all the three gears combined (bevel, spur and sector gears) are called gear sets.

SOME IMPORTANT NOTES Here are some considerations prior to re-shimming, - check the fittings of the gearbox itself some worn-out/used gearbox has a a bulged wall this creates problems as to the thickness of shims to use and the fitting itself, - use the correct gearset ratio for the spring to use shimming cannot improve stress handling of the spring it only improve and extend internal parts lifespan by having smooth operation during cycle, - some gearsets are not bolt-on to some gearbox brand check whether the SeG is hitting the switch stopper post in the gearbox, check whether the SpG is hitting the reinforced gearbox wall, check whether the BeG is hitting the anti-reverse latch (ARL from this time on), - check whether the gears (in its axle) are not wobbling prior to shimming re-shimming with a wobbling gear/s is hopeless, - check that all the bushings (or bearing bushings) are not rotating to its gearbox hole this will further create wobbling and damages to the gearbox itself when taken for granted check also that axles and its assigned bushings are fitted well, not too tight not to wobbling, - make sure that prior to re-shimming, you have all the available shim thickness, - make sure that you have the proper lubricants so that after re-shimming, your gears are lubricated to further smooth operation, - remove/clean previous lubricants found anywhere in the gearbox lubricants reside anywhere within that is NOT helping in the lubrication poses danger to be accidentally clutter the switch assembly that may cause electrical problems,

PROPER SHIMMING CHECK (PSC) This is how you will check during the entire process. Every time that PCS is mentioned, do all these steps, a. close the gearbox, b. check the play of the axle of the gear being shimmed through the bushing outside, side by side make sure that there is no play which is the wobble being eliminated in shimming add shims when needed choose the correct thickness, as required, c. insert your finger inside the gearbox (for sector and spur gears only) to test whether the gear is freely rotating inside use a small precision tool to test for the free-rotation of the bevel gear, d. screw the gearbox then do the same test (test a to c) tight it like you are tightening the screws the final time, e. consider the free-rotation of each gear that you are checking too tight will cause overheating of electrical parts, as the motor is driving a relatively sober setting of gears too tight!

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3/10/2012 1:43 AM

Complete Guide: Proper Shimming - Filipino Airsoft (FAS) - Forum

http://www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106134

f. when using bearing/bushings, allow 0.1mm play just to ensure that there are no lateral force being exerted towards the bearings itself failure to consider this will result to bearing failure, That is how the PSC is done from here on,

LETS START! Step #1 - Setting of Bevel Gear (checking of the bevel and pinion gears mating) The main objective hear is to set the bevel gear properly mated with the pinion gear thats shimming the right axle before the left axle is considered. - set the bevel gear on the right side of the gearbox and place the motor, - check the pinion gear and bevel gears mating whether you can still add shims (on the right) while allowing space for the pinion gear to rotate without over-tightening it by way of the bevel gears teeth (this creates the noise!), - add shim when the mating of the teeth is still has room that the pinion gear is too loose this will also save time working on the other side, Now that you have set the perfect mating of the bevel and pinion gears by knowing the right thickness of shims of the right axle of the bevel gear, you can now shim the left axle of the bevel gear. - place a shim on the left side (this time just to check the wobble) do the PSC, - when there is no side to side wobble in doing the PSC, check that the ARL has enough to bite in the bevel gears anti reverse teeth you may consider putting shims on the ARL just to adjust its height and get the most bite on the bevel gears teeth I have done this ARL shimming once in my DBOYS gearbox before: and you need to do that whenever its necessary (only), - ensure that you have actually done the PSC procedure correctly, Now that your bevel gear is properly set by putting into consideration the mating of the pinion and bevel gears, plus the height of the ARL, you may now focus on the spur gear shimming. Step #2 - Setting of Spur Gear (checking of spur gear height) The main purpose here is to properly check that the teeth of the spur gear is in perfect alignment with that of the bevel gears teeth since bevel gears height is set in consideration to the mating of the pinion gear, the height now is the main focus to mate with that of the spur gear. - put a shim on the left axle of the spur gear then check the teeth alignment to that of the bevel gear make sure that the teeth of the spur and bevel gears does mated properly failure to consider this results to chipping off/breakage of bevel and spur gears teeth after a short period of use, - shim now the right axle of the spur gear and do the PSC, - ensure that you have actually done the PSC procedure correctly, - check again that the spur gear will rotate freely along with the bevel gear set, - install the ARL and check whether the spur gear is hitting the surface of the ARL trim the ARLs side when necessary but not to the point that the ARL is loosing its grip on its axle. Step #3 - Setting of Sector Gear (checking for many things here!) The main purpose for setting the sector gear are (1) the faces in between spur and sector gears, (2) the perfect alignment and the mating of sector and spur gears teeth, (3) the consideration of the cut-off lever to ensure its function, and (4) the space to provide for the tappet plates play all these crucial and important points must all be considered during this 3rd step. - put shim in the left axle of the sector gear, check the hairline space to provide between face of spur and sector gears, - once the space is now given by adjusting the shim/s that provides the height, check the mating of the teeth between spur and sector gears also the mating should be carefully set to minimize the height (and shims) in this left axle since the consideration for the cut-off lever is being watched do the PSC, - shim now the right axle of the sector gear do the PSC, - ensure that you have actually done the PSC procedure correctly, - check again that the sector gear will rotate freely along with the bevel and spur gears check it more in counter-clockwise since the cycle is done that way, Step #4 Installing back the Internal Parts After setting all the needed shims, ensuring all the gaps (faces), and etc., carefully remove all the gears with there shims on DO NOT LET A SHIM ASTRAY FROM ITS ORIGINAL AXLE SIDE OR ELSE YOU WILL REPEAT THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF SHIMMING AGAIN and re-assemble the gearbox as usual. * do not make too tight on the screw in the center just above the trigger it often causes the stack-up of the switch inside.

CHECKS Once the gearbox is assembled back, try to test before even trying to completely assemble all the airsoft gun. In version 2 gearbox, you may install the grip, motor and motor plate to make a quick test.

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3/10/2012 1:43 AM

Complete Guide: Proper Shimming - Filipino Airsoft (FAS) - Forum

http://www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106134

In version 3 and other gearbox versions, you can easily test while on the process of assembling back the motor cage, just before putting back the entire gun. Make a minute adjustment on the motor height adjustment to achieve the perfect mating of pinion and bevel gears. If there is a noise despite the adjustment, check the angle of the motor installed whether it is not in its proper angle. And if there is still noise heard, re-do the shimming process by shifting a 0.1mm shim from the right of the axle (of the bevel gear) to the left axle side this gives a small adjustment in order to give space on the mating of the pinion-bevel gears.

COMMON PROBLEMS AFTER WRONG SHIMMING Overheating Motor/Battery/Wiring this is caused by a very tight shimming done in one of all of the gears during shimming. Please consider the tightness of the actual completion of the gearbox when the screws are tightened well. So, give a small allowance in anticipation of this problem. The mating of bevel-pinion gears can also be an issue why overheating (and noise) is occurring. Noisy Gears there a lots of causes as to why gears are noisy after shimming, (1) when the gap between faces of gears are not given enough space to avoid hitting the entire surface, (2) when the bevel gear is set too tight to mate with the pinion gear, (3) when the spur gear is actually hitting the anti-reverse latch or the side of the reinforced thick walls of the gearbox, (4) when the sector gear is actually hitting the switch stopper post in the gearbox, (5) or simply when the motor height adjustment is wrongly done. None Operation the shimming is tremendously tight that the motor is not capable to drive a unmovable gearset that was poorly shimmed consider re-shimming in a very conservative (not too aggressive) manner. IMMEDIETELY STOP OPERATION AND FIX THE PROBLEM or, you may melt and/or burn electrical wires/switch contacts, your motor, and bloat your precious battery pack. Mis-feeding yes it is true, mis-feeding may occur when there is something wrong during shimming it is specifically cause by too tightened right axle side of the sector gear that the tappet plate is sandwiched between the sector gear and the gearbox itself it happened to me once to my great disbelief!

DISCLAIMER The author has no liabilities whatsoever to the damages or injuries that may occur - work at your own risk please!

Hope that helps..! Luv, majinbu __________________ follow me @ Majinbu's Review


Last edited by Majinbu; May 24th, 2011 at 14:17. Reason: add/edit info

The following 15 users say, "I like" or "Thank You" to Majinbu for this useful post: BigBrd, bogaretz, Ch8, daren, David_95, doodzzz_day, estong182, eURIEL, jox, nailman, Padawan, PELOT, soothsayer1991, TOOLBOX, wolfie

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May 24th, 2011, 14:15

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Padawan
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Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Cubao, Q.C. Posts: 167

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Thank you sir majinbu for the share/review on proper shimming this will give a heads up for aspiring airsofters like me... __________________ Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

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May 24th, 2011, 15:33

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wolfie
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Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Baguio City Posts: 529

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

very useful post. +1 vote this to be sticky. __________________ Baguio Airsoft Club, Inc. Good.Clean.Fun 2002

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May 24th, 2011, 19:58

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estong182
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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 150

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

thank you so much sir majinbu, tanung ko lang kung panu ba dapat ung proper aoe ng spur gear at piston's 1st tooth, o anu ba dapat i align muna? un bang sector chip na nakalapat sa tappet or ung 1st tooth ng spur and piston ang magkalapat bago isara ang gearbox? TIA __________________

May 24th, 2011, 22:13

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skar
Airsofter Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Las Pias Posts: 144

Thanks Sir Majinbu. This thread is very helpfull!

Originally Posted by wolfie very useful post. +1 vote this to be sticky.

+1 =)

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May 24th, 2011, 22:14

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SEAL010
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Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: PAMPANGA Posts: 1,313 Blog Entries: 4

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Complete Guide: Proper Shimming - Filipino Airsoft (FAS) - Forum

http://www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106134

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Yan si sir majinbu.... sir pautograph sa vest ko kapag nagkita tayo ulit ihihihihi ^^ __________________ "Once a SEAL always a SEAL, still living the legacy of the Leathernecks...." MP5 lover? ll Avoiding Scammer? ll Gunsmithing

May 25th, 2011, 12:20

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Majinbu
Airsofter

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: in your dreams! Posts: 3,116

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Originally Posted by estong182 tanung ko lang kung panu ba dapat ung proper aoe ng spur gear at piston's 1st tooth, o anu ba dapat i align muna? un bang sector chip na nakalapat sa tappet or ung 1st tooth ng spur and piston ang magkalapat bago isara ang gearbox? TIA

you are asking 2 different points sir Estong, (1)adjusting the angle of engagement (AoE) and, (2)setting the correct timing,.. kahit OT na dito since about shimming ito, sagutin ko ng brief ne sir.., (1)setting AoE is making the 1st tooth of the sector gear hit the 1st tooth of the piston body (pb) in the most ideal way - ideal is having the most surface area between teeth on the initial impact just before the action of the pb take place - the objective is to minimize the stress that makes the pulling of the pb harder than when it is perfectly angeled - do that by inserting/shaving in between pb and pb head so you can achieve the horizontal location of the pb's teeth ideal for impact, (2)setting the timing is,.. well, just draw an imaginary line connecting the 1st and last tooth of the sector gear,.. make that line parallel to the action of the pb - while the anti-reverse latch is locked - it means, hindi about sa pagka-lapat ang delayer/advancer mo sa tappet plate sir - by doing this, your gears will rotate and be back to its timing as per the ratio of the gearsets and the anti-reverse latch over and over again,..

Originally Posted by SEAL010 Yan si sir majinbu.... sir pautograph sa vest ko kapag nagkita tayo ulit ihihihihi ^^

OT:ako din sir magpapa-sign din sayo.. hehe.. __________________ follow me @ Majinbu's Review

May 25th, 2011, 12:21

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ProjectMayhem
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Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Pampanga/Baguio Posts: 2,635 Blog Entries: 1

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

very useful sir. __________________

May 25th, 2011, 13:01

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estong182
FTB Viewer

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 150

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Originally Posted by Majinbu you are asking 2 different points sir Estong, (1)adjusting the angle of engagement (AoE) and, (2)setting the correct timing,..
kahit OT na dito since about shimming ito, sagutin ko ng brief ne sir.., (1)setting AoE is making the 1st tooth of the sector gear hit the 1st tooth of the piston body (pb) in the most ideal way - ideal is having the most surface area between teeth on the initial impact just before the action of the pb take place - the objective is to minimize the stress that makes the pulling of the pb harder than when it is perfectly angeled - do that by inserting/shaving in between pb and pb head so you can achieve the horizontal location of the pb's teeth ideal for impact, (2)setting the timing is,.. well, just draw an imaginary line connecting the 1st and last tooth of the sector gear,.. make that line parallel to the action of the pb - while the anti-reverse latch is locked - it means, hindi about sa pagka-lapat ang delayer/advancer mo sa tappet plate sir - by doing this, your gears will rotate and be back to its timing as per the ratio of the gearsets and the anti-reverse latch over and over again,..

OT:ako din sir magpapa-sign din sayo.. hehe..

maraming salamat sir.. idol.. __________________

May 25th, 2011, 21:39

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3noma
Airsofter

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: marikina Posts: 228

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

verrrry nice sir, thx

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