SATAN'S GREATEST HOAX

Question 1- Definition of "Oneness" "God is a Spirit..." -John 4:24. "There is...one Spirit..." -Ephesians 4:4. "One and the selfsame Spirit..." 1 Cor. 12:11. "Now the Lord is that Spirit..." -2 Cor. 3:17. "...Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)" -Acts 10:36. "THE FIRST OF ALL THE COMMANDMENTS IS, Hear, O Israel; THE LORD (JESUS) OUR GOD IS ONE LORD..." -Mark 12:29. "...Believe me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior...Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel...I AM THE LORD *YOUR HOLY ONE* THE CREATOR OF Israel, your King" -Isaiah 43:10-15 "David speaketh concerning Him (Jesus of Nazareth), ...thine HOLY ONE..." -Acts 2:2527. 2Co 11:2 "...I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you TO ONE husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin TO CHRIST. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

The following are my responses to some statements made in challenge to the Oneness doctrine. The statements in double brackets, like so- ((example)) were asked of me by an individual who goes by the handle "Pilgrim." This has been condensed from those conversations. These questions to him, and all Trinitarians, are not meant to make the Godhead appear confusing. It is the Trinity doctrine that has made the Godhead, not only confusing, but a doctrine causing division and strife in Christianity since it's beginning. I apologize for the length of this work. However, should anyone be diligent enough to read this to the end, and honestly consider the questions raised, I think one will see just how evil, and what damage the Trinity doctrine has caused, in dividing the church of Christ.

"God is one" Mark 12:29

"Christ is all" -Col. 3:11 "And ye are complete in him (Christ)" - Col 2:10 QUESTION #1) Each one of those scriptures plainly, and clearly, though admittedly simply, states the "God is one/Christ is all" (Oneness) message. Why do Trinitarians choose not to believe them?

1Co 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all... 11 But ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT... 12 ...so also is Christ." (( What you believe in is a MODALISTIC God... God is 3 distinct persons (not people)... Oneness Pentecostals leave this side out, but Scripture clearly gives both - the two sides making one coin.)) First off, let me make clear that I do not deny the existence of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and I do recognize differences between them. "God is one, Christ is all, and ye are complete in Him" means just that. I do not say God is one, the SON is all, and ye are complete in The Son." This is where Trinitarians, who believe that only the Son bares the name Jesus, incorrectly interpret our stand. We of the "God is one/Christ is all" doctrine just do not do, what scripture does not do either, in calling the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost "Separate Persons" or a Trinity." These are extra/anti-biblical words, and concepts. You are correct in that I believe God has revealed Himself to man in a modalistic manner. Phi 2:9 "...God... hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 THAT AT THE NAME OF JESUS every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, TO THE GLORY OF God the Father." Col 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father BY HIM." Act 4:10 "Be it known unto you all... THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST... 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Question 2- Definition of "Trinity" ((A good and clear definition is this: Within the nature of the ONE true God, there are three separate persons; the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and these three persons eternally co-exist as the ONE God... There is ONE God who expresses Himself in three separate persons... The Father is the ONE true God, but is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is the ONE true God, but is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is the ONE true God, but is not the Father or the Son.)) QUESTION #2) WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SPECIFICALLY STATES

ANY OF THIS?? What happened to your statement- ((I WILL use Scriptures that "in and of themselves" teach the ONE true and living God. And I will even do what you tried to do with Scripture (cross referencing?), but only without private interpretations.))??? Questions 3 through 5- Who is in the believers? QUESTION #3) Exactly where do you draw the line at this separation of yours? For some examplesQUESTION #4) Jesus said He would be in us, and that He and the Father would be in us. Is there more than one Spirit dwelling in you? Joh 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU... 21... and will manifest myself..." Joh 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL COME UNTO HIM, AND MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM." Yet 1 Cor. 12:13 says- "By ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body... and have been made to drink into ONE SPIRIT." God the Father is to dwell in us- 1 Cor 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God." And 2 Co 6:16 "...For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I WILL DWELL IN THEM... 18 AND WILL BE A FATHER unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." QUESTION #5) Are all the three persons of the Godhead dwelling in you? 1 Cor 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of THE HOLY GHOST WHICH IS IN YOU...?" Questions 6 through 16- The TRUE mystery of the faith. QUESTION #6) Where does the Bible say that the Trinity is the mystery of the faith? What do the scriptures teach the mystery of the faith is? Col 1:26 "Even the mystery which hath been hid... but now IS MADE MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS: 27 To whom God would make known... THIS MYSTERY... IS CHRIST IN YOU." QUESTION #7) Though I think it's pretty safe to say that you (Trinitarians) DO NOT BELIEVE Christ is in you, since you believe the Holy Ghost in the believers is a Separate Person from Christ, right? 2 Cor 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU, EXCEPT YE BE REPROBATES?" QUESTION #8) Do you NOT believe it is Christ in you, since you do expressly believe Christ and the Holy Spirit (that is in the believers) are separate persons? Do you confess not that it is Jesus who is come in to dwell in our flesh?

Rom 8:10 "And **IF** CHRIST BE IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." 2 Jo 1:7 "For MANY DECEIVERS are entered into the world, who CONFESS NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME (present tense) IN THE FLESH. THIS IS A DECEIVER AND AN ANTICHRIST." QUESTION #9) Who dwelt in Jesus? Were there three Spirits dwelling in Jesus? Were there three separate persons dwelling in Jesus? Joh 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, AND THE FATHER IN ME? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works." Luk 4:1 "...Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost... was led by the Spirit..." QUESTION #10) Who baptizes the believers with the Holy Ghost? Is it NOT Jesus HIMSELF that baptizes us? Mat 3:11 "I (John the Baptist) indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: BUT HE THAT COMETH AFTER ME (JESUS) is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:... 13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I HAVE NEED TO BE BAPTIZED OF THEE, and comest thou to me? Jesus said- Joh 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, THE COMFORTER will not come unto you; but if I depart, I WILL SEND HIM unto you. (Joh 14:26 "...the Comforter... is the Holy Ghost..." QUESTION #11) Or is it the Father who would send the Holy Ghost? Joh 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom THE FATHER WILL SEND..." Joh 14:16 "And I will pray THE FATHER, and HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER... 17 Even the Spirit of truth..." QUESTION #12) Yet it is only one Spirit that baptizes with the Holy Ghost, how can they then be separate persons? 1 Cor 12:13 "For *BY* one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; *AND* have been all made to drink into ONE Spirit." QUESTION #13) Are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, then, Separate Persons but not Separate Spirits? Where does the Bible specifically say this, or whatever it is that you do believe about this? QUESTION #14) How can the Holy Spirit be the same spirit as the "Spirit of the Son"

(Gal 4:6) and be a Separate Person? Did the Son not have his own Spirit, but it is a Separate Person that is called the Holy Spirit? What is the scripturally stated difference between the Spirit of the Son, and the Holy Spirit? QUESTION #15) Is the Holy Spirit a separate person because only the Holy Spirit is Holy? Is Jesus' Spirit not Holy? After all, Mat 19:17 "...he (Jesus) said... Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God" What, scripturally speaking, makes the Spirit a Separate Person from Jesus and the Father then? QUESTION #16) What, scripturally stated, "Separates" the Holy Spirit" from being God the Father (who is *A* Spirit -John 4:24) and the "Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Phi 1:19).? Questions 17 through 19- In whose glory does Jesus come? QUESTION #17) In whose glory will Jesus return- His Father's or His own? Mat 25:31 "When the SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN HIS glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of HIS GLORY" Mat 16:27 "For the SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." QUESTION #18) Who is our Father, and the Father of Jesus? Is Jesus not our Father? Joh 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, SHEW US THE FATHER, and it sufficeth us. 9 JESUS SAITH UNTO HIM, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET ***HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME***, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" Joh 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Joh 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name" (Mat 1:21 "thou shalt call his name JESUS") Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ... 8 I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty... 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST: 18 I AM HE THAT LIVETH, AND WAS DEAD... 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA... 7 He that overcometh... I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. Isa 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME (JESUS) SHALL BE CALLED Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace." QUESTION #19) Is God the Father NOT the ONLY Father?

Mal 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?" Joh 8:41 "We be not born of fornication; WE HAVE ONE FATHER, EVEN GOD." Rom 15:6 "...God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1Co 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." Questions 20 through 22- The Holy Spirit as Father of Jesus, and the believers. QUESTION #20) Is the Holy Ghost NOT the Father? Mat 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found WITH CHILD OF THE HOLY GHOST... 20 ...FOR THAT WHICH IS CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY GHOST." Luk 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, THE HOLY GHOST SHALL COME UPON THEE, AND the power of the Highest SHALL OVERSHADOW THEE..." Rom 8:14 "For AS MANY AS ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT of God, THEY ARE THE SONS of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption." QUESTION #21) How is it that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost, yet (to you) the Holy Ghost is a Separate Person from the Father (Scripture, please)? QUESTION #22) Did your God the Father require the Son to be (spiritually) artificially inseminated by the Holy Ghost? Is YOUR God-the-Father spiritually impotent? Can He not do all things of Himself? Is He therefore NOT omnipotent? If your God-the-Father is Almighty, and is a Separate Person from the Holy Spirit, how come He couldn't or didn't father Jesus Himself? Questions 23 through 26- One God and one mediator. ((You began your list of verses, to prove the Biblical teaching of the Oneness God, with 1 Tim. 2:5, "There is but one God..." - Yes, this is so true. But you failed to quote the whole verse, "For there is one God, AND one mediator BETWEEN God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.")) QUESTION #23) So, is Jesus JUST a man to you? If there is a Separation of Persons here, then how have you NOT made Jesus separate from God? This verse doesn't say"Between the Person of God the Father, and God the Son" it says- "one mediator BETWEEN GOD and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus." How does your rationality NOT show that you believe Christ is NOT God by your separating between Jesus and God here? ((Two persons TomR. Jesus can't be between man and Himself)) QUESTION #24) To whom then does Christ mediate us back to?

Eph 5:25 "Christ also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT... 27 THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT IT **TO HIMSELF**" Col 1:20 "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, BY HIM TO RECONCILE ALL things UNTO HIMSELF; BY HIM, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath HE RECONCILED 22 IN THE BODY OF HIS FLESH through death, TO PRESENT YOU holy and unblameable and unreproveable IN HIS SIGHT" ((my point is that Jesus (person one) has satisfied the wrath of God (person two) toward man upon the cross. Do you understand? Do you see the relationship between the Father and the Son and then toward man?)) QUESTION #25) Is Jesus then NOT a God who was also filled with wrath at our separation from Him? And if Jesus IS also God, WHO IS OUR MEDIATOR BETWEEN US AND JESUS your "GOD THE SON"? (Note: "God the Son" is not a Biblical phrase!) QUESTION #26) If we are reconciled back to God the Father, AND we are reconciled back TO JESUS HIMSELF, BY JESUS HIMSELF, where is the Separation of Persons here? Please explain to me how can "HIMSELF" mean more than one person? 1 Co 15:24 "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the KINGDOM TO GOD, EVEN THE FATHER; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 2 Cor 5:18 "...God... hath reconciled us TO HIMSELF by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation" Eph 5:25 "Christ also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT... 27 THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT IT **TO HIMSELF**" Questions 27 through 29- Does "love" prove relationship of persons? (( How can two natures relate with one another? Rather, this is speaking of a relationship between two divine real persons - the Father and the Son (Jesus)... The Father and the Son can't have a relationship if they are the same person )) QUESTION #27) If separation of Persons is required in order for there to be "relationship" how come it is said that men can love (showing relationship to and between) their own flesh? Eph 5: 28 "So ought men to love their wives AS their own bodies... 29 FOR NO MAN EVER YET HATED HIS OWN FLESH; but nourisheth and cherisheth it (relationship!), even as the Lord the church" QUESTION #28) Is a man's own flesh a separate person from the man? Does Eph. 5:28 prove that my flesh is a separate person from my mind, or my soul? Why not? If the logic (that relationship requires separation of persons) works to prove a separation of persons in

the godhead, why not in the human being who was made in God's image? QUESTION #29) If separation of persons is required in order for there to be relationship, how does a person's mind "relate" with his fingers, toes, eyes, etc? Are they separate persons from the body? Does the body, and it's members, not also go by the same name as the mind of the one person? Are you going to tell all the people in the world that are paralyzed and in wheel chairs that the reason they can't move their hands and feet isn't because the mind isn't relating, communicating, and interacting with them- since, according to you, their body parts would have to be separate persons for any relationship to take place? Do you think you could convince all the neurologists out there that communication and relationship can't take place between a person's mind, and the body members since there is no separation of persons? Questions 30 through 35- God and Jesus always being distinguished. ((So please explain to me, why it is that whenever God and Jesus are being distinguished, it is never Jesus and the Son who are distinguished.)) QUESTION #30) If the Bible meant for these to be interpreted as "Separate Persons" why didn't the Bible "whenever God and Jesus are being distinguished" SOMEWHERE specifically state that these are Separate Persons? Mat 13:14 "And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, BY HEARING YE SHALL HEAR, AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND SEEING YE SHALL SEE, AND SHALL NOT PERCEIVE: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." 1 Pet 2:6 "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but UNTO THEM WHICH BE DISOBEDIENT, THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS DISALLOWED, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And A STONE OF STUMBLING, AND A ROCK OF OFFENCE, EVEN TO THEM WHICH STUMBLE AT THE WORD, BEING DISOBEDIENT: whereunto also they were appointed." ((...If Jesus is both the Father and the Son, why does Scripture always limit Jesus' explicit identity to the Son?... Why does Scripture never refer to "Jesus and the Son" when it refers to God (the Father) and the man in whom God dwelt - if in fact Jesus is, as you claim, both the Father and the Son?... For example, "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God (who is also Jesus Christ), and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit (who is also Jesus Christ) be with you all." (2 Cor. 13:14).)) QUESTION #31) By your logic, are God and the Father Separate Persons? For the scripture saysCol 1:3 "We give thanks to God AND the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you."

Col 2:2 "...be comforted, being knit together in love... to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, AND of the Father, and of Christ;" 1Th 3:11 "Now God himself AND our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." Jam 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God AND the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." QUESTION #32) According to Trinitarian logic, I have now proven there to be actually a fourth person in the Godhead, have I not? Why not? Does using the word "and" between God and the Father prove them to be separate persons any more than the word "and" between Father and Son proves them to be separate persons? QUESTION #33) (( So why does (scripture) distinguish (God) from... the Father... in (these) passage(s) if in fact he believes (God is the Father)?)) QUESTION #34) Why is your question pertinent and detrimental to Oneness theology, but my question back at you is not pertinent or detrimental to Trinitarian philosophy? But that doesn't really answer the question, does it. THE ANSWER LIES IN THE MEANING OF THE GREEK WORD THAT OUR ENGLISH BIBLES TRANSLATE (SOMETIMES) INTO "AND." This word is the Greek word "Kai" and it is also translated as "even" or "that is," for exampleRom 5:7 "For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even (Kai) dare to die." Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even (kai) over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." Rom 8:34 "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is (kai) risen again, who is even (kai) at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." With this word kai, being interpreted as "and," "even" or "that is," in mind, let's look again at our examples(("May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, (and, even, that is) the love of God (who is also Jesus Christ), (and, even, that is) the fellowship of the Holy Spirit (who is also Jesus Christ) be with you all." (2 Cor. 13:14).)) Col 1:3 "We give thanks to God (and, even, that is) the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you." Col 2:2 "...be comforted, being knit together in love... to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, (and, even, that is) of the Father, (and, even, that is) of Christ;" 1Th 3:11 "Now God himself (and, even, that is) our Father, (and, even, that is) our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you."

(("Grace and peace to you from God our Father (who is Jesus Christ) (and, even, that is) the Lord Jesus Christ." (Gal. 1:3). Or, "Praise be to the God (and, even, that is) Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (who is Himself the Lord Jesus Christ)..." (Eph. 1:3).)) ((If Paul really wanted to show the "Oneness" of God, he wouldn't have tried to sound so confusing. He could've said something like, "Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ who is the Father of the Son", or something like it - but he never did!)) QUESTION #35) If Paul didn't want to sound so confusing, and wanted to teach a Trinity of Separate Persons, how come he never called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Separate Persons? He could've said something like, "Praise be to the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost; *three separate persons;... and these three persons eternally co-exist as the ONE God", or something like it*- but he never did!)) Why didn't he? He knew the Hebrews were very stout monotheists, was he trying to confuse them? If Paul meant three separate persons, why didn't he say three separate persons? Questions 36 through 48- "That one and the selfsame Spirit... so also is Christ!" (( when you cross-reference Scriptures that show that Jesus is God, you then try to show that Jesus is the Spirit because other verses show that the Holy Spirit is God and you do the same with the Father. Do you see the fallacy in your interpretation? Your thinking runs as follows: 1. Jesus is God. 2. God is the Father 3. Therefore, Jesus is the Father. It is quite easy to do the same thing with any person of the Godhead and form your own belief. This is a logical fallacy. I can to this with apples and oranges. 1. An apple is a fruit. 2. An orange is a fruit. 3. Therefore, an apple is an orange. WRONG!)) I'm afraid you are leaving out some very KEY words in your process. "Apple is a fruit" "There is one fruit." "One and the selfsame fruit." "Now, the apple is that fruit." "Johnny apple, he is apple of all." "The first principle is the apple our fruit is one apple." Nope, I just don't see how you could stick an orange in this "thinking process" and still have one and the selfsame fruit! ((I hope you see now. But if you don't quite understand yet, I will use some more of your verses and we'll get a good look at your thinking process.)) (("God is a Spirit..." -John 4:24.)) (("There is...one Spirit..." -Ephesians 4:4)) (("One and the selfsame Spirit..." 1 Cor. 12:11))

(("Now the Lord is that Spirit..." -2 Cor. 3:17.)) (("...Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)" -Acts 10:36.)) (("THE FIRST OF ALL THE COMMANDMENTS IS, Hear, O Israel; THE LORD (JESUS) OUR GOD IS ONE LORD..." -Mark 12:29)) (("...Believe me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior...Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel...I AM THE LORD (("David speaketh concerning Him (Jesus of Nazareth), ...thine HOLY ONE..." -Acts 2:25-27.)) ((We'll stop right there for now. OK, watch, this is what you are saying: 1. God is a Spirit 2. The Lord is that Spirit 3. Jesus is the one Lord, therefore, Jesus is also the Spirit... Sorry, TomR, no matter which way you cut this deck you still come up with a fallacy - your conclusions are unsubstantial - they fall apart.)) Well sure they do if you take out the explicitly qualifying words to the process of your summary! Like "One and the selfsame"! And your logic sure hasn't proven any separation in persons, has it? But then, you admitted that, didn't you?... (( But as of yet, for both of our beliefs, they need more proof and explaining.))

((So, back to your verses: 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 11,... I believe that you are interpreting this verse to be something that it isn't saying... You are in fact saying that in these verses the "manifestations", "operations", etc...speak of the Godhead. And supposedly in saying this it proves the "Oneness message. Well, let's look at these verses and see if you aren't just adding your "private interpretations". If we were to read these verses in their CONTEXT, we would find that the apostle Paul is EXPLICITLY NOT DEFINING THE GODHEAD in this case. In verse one, Paul tells us what he's going to talk about, "Now concerning SPIRITUAL GIFTS...")) You know, you really ought to look a little closer at your Bible, and a Greek interlinear would be a big help. In verse one, the word "gifts" is not even in the original Greek! The word that is translated as "spiritual gifts" is really just the word "pneumatikos" (spiritual matters) all by itself. Here is a brief portion of Vine's definition of "pneumatikos""pneumatikos (4152) "always connotes the ideas of invisibility and of power... LIT., 'SPIRITUALITIES,' 1Co 12:1 14:1; ... (i) ALL THAT IS PRODUCED AND MAINTAINED AMONG MEN BY THE OPERATIONS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS 'SPIRITUAL,' 1Co 15:46...." -Vine's Expository Dictionary. ((And since Paul would not have them ignorant, he proceeds to tell them. These gifts were manifested by the same Spirit but they in themselves were diverse... However, instead of running through each verse with you, it is plain as day to see that this is what Paul is speaking of in this whole passage. And the "THESE" in verse 11 refers again to the "GIFTS", NOT THE GODHEAD... Paul is addressing a problem within the Corinthian

church - regarding the "manifestations" of the GIFTS of the Spirit. TomR, what you need here is to read the text in its context.)) First off, consider Paul's comments1 Cor 12:1 "But to spiritual things, brothers, I do not wish you to be ignorant. 2 You know that being led away, you Gentiles were led to dumb idols..." (The Interlinear Bible, Hendrickson Publishers) Let us keep in mind, that in 1 Cor. 12, Paul was speaking overall- A) of spiritual manifestations in general among them, NOT specifically the gifts of the spirit; B) These Gentiles previously had different gods for every possible act or action of heavenly bodiesgods for wind, for fire, for air, for crops, for blessing, for cursing, etc. They did not know one god. From their past, any action of god could have been misinterpreted as different gods. Next, Paul mentions how they may know that they are of Christ1 Cor 12:3 "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." Then Paul mentions, not only tongues, but also all the other spiritual offices. Note that HE DOES NOT HIMSELF SPECIFY that these offices only relate to gifts, he is speaking in a broader sense than just the gifts, in talking about spiritualities, though he does include gifts1 Co 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is THE SAME GOD WHICH WORKETH ALL IN ALL." 1 Cor 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." 1 Cor 12:8 "For to one is given BY THE SPIRIT the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;... 10 To another the working of miracles; TO ANOTHER PROPHECY... 11 But ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as he will." 2 Pe 1:21 "For... prophecy came NOT in old time BY THE WILL OF MAN: but... BY THE HOLY GHOST. Mar 13:11 "...FOR IT IS NOT YE THAT SPEAK, BUT THE HOLY GHOST. QUESTION #36) If all the gifts were given by one and the selfsame Spirit (the Holy Ghost), can the Father or Jesus give the gifts, and there still be a separation of persons in the Godhead? Why does Paul say "All these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit then, when, according to you, he should have said something like ALL the Separate Person members of the Trinity? QUESTION #37) Does God (the Father) NOT set the members, including the gift of prophets, in the church? (Look closely at the gift of prophecy in the following verses.

Prophecy is a gift, a calling, and an office, v.11 "But ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as HE (not they) WILL.")... 1 Cor 12:18 "But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him (not them, mind you, Him!)... 28 AND GOD HATH SET SOME IN THE CHURCH, first apostles, SECONDARILY PROPHETS, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." Isa 50:4 "The Lord GOD HATH GIVEN ME THE TONGUE OF THE LEARNED, that I should know how TO SPEAK a word in season to him that is weary" Col 4:3 "Withal praying also for us, THAT GOD WOULD OPEN UNTO US A DOOR OF UTTERANCE, TO SPEAK the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds" QUESTION #38) OK, you could argue that the Holy Ghost is God, and that would be a fair argument, BUT, WHAT ABOUT JESUS? Since you believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be separate persons, and since "ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT," which is the Holy Ghost, does Jesus NOT give the gifts of the Spirit? Eph 4:7 "But unto every one of us is given grace ACCORDING TO THE MEASURE OF THE GIFT OF CHRIST. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and GAVE GIFTS UNTO MEN. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 HE THAT DESCENDED *IS THE SAME ALSO THAT* ASCENDED UP FAR ABOVE ALL HEAVENS, THAT HE MIGHT FILL ALL THINGS.) 11 AND *HE GAVE ... PROPHETS*; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Luk 21:15 "For I (JESUS) WILL GIVE YOU A MOUTH AND WISDOM, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist." 1 Pet 1:10 "...the prophets... prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHICH WAS IN THEM DID SIGNIFY, WHEN IT TESTIFIED beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." 1 Cor 12:11 "But ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as HE (not they!) will."

And now, back to our walk through 1 Cor. 12, we come to the verse that shows the real error of your Trinitarian bent reasoning that the passage is only talking about the gifts. Now we come to THE MEAT OF PAUL'S MESSAGE in this whole passage, verse 121 Cor 12:12 "For *AS* the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: *SO ALSO IS CHRIST.*" Let's step back from our magnifying glass view, and look at the big picture of 1 Cor. 12-

"Concerning spiritual(ities)... all these worketh that one and the selfsame spirit... For... so also is Christ..." You see, the real difference between Trinitarians and we "God is one/Christ is all" adherents is this- whenever the Bible mentions the name "Christ" Trinitarians see only the Son, but we "Oneness" see "all the fullness of the godhead" in the name of Jesus Christ, for in Christ "dwells all the fullness of the godhead... and ye are complete in Him..." Col 2:910. I don't disagree with you that most of 1 Cor. 12 was written pointing downhill from Christ to the church. What you fail to see is that Paul is using this downhill terminology to express uphill concepts AS WELL- "FOR... SO ALSO IS CHRIST"!!! All I should have to do to convince you of this is show you that "Christ" is what Paul is talking about in 1 Cor 12:11-12, and that all these concepts are applicable in reference to Christ. I've already shown you that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost ARE responsible for giving the gifts and callings and therefore these three are "that one and the selfsame spirit," Since "ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT." (Which is just another way of saying- 1Jo 5:7 "...There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.") So let's look uphill and see, verse by verse, how this chapter does VERY WELL apply TO CHRIST "For... so also is Christ" (and Christ is definitely A "SPIRITUALITY")1 Cor 12:1, 12 "Concerning Spiritualities... So also is Christ..."

1 Cor 12:3 "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." Joh 14:24 "...THE WORD which ye hear IS NOT MINE, but the Father's which sent me." Joh 12:49 "For I HAVE NOT SPOKEN OF MYSELF; BUT THE FATHER WHICH SENT ME, HE GAVE ME A COMMANDMENT, WHAT I SHOULD SAY, AND WHAT I SHOULD SPEAK. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." QUESTION #39) As concerning Christ, did He not say Himself He spoke not of, nor by Himself? How then can Christ be the Almighty, and yet be a Separate Person from the One who is commanding Him to speak?

1 Co 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit" QUESTION #40) Concerning Christ, was the Spirit NOT in Him? Rom 8:14 "...As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Luk 4:1 "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost... was led by the Spirit..." Mat 12:28 "...I cast out devils by the Spirit of God..." Joh 3:27 "John (the Baptist)...said... 30 He must increase, but I must decrease... 34 ...for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him."

1 Cor 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but THE SAME LORD." QUESTION #41) As concerning the Son, who was His Lord? Is Christ subordinate to a Separate Person? Can Christ be the Almighty if He is subject to a Separate Person? Joh 8:29 "...The Father... I do always those things that please him." For, Rom 6:16- "...To whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey..." Rev 22:16 "I Jesus... testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (Father) and the offspring (Son) of David..."

1 Cor 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, BUT IT IS THE SAME GOD WHICH WORKETH ALL IN ALL." QUESTION #42) Are there more than one God working all in all in Christ? v.12 "For... so also is Christ" Joh 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them... I DO NOTHING OF MYSELF; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." Joh 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

1 Cor 12:12 "For *AS* the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: *SO ALSO IS CHRIST.*" 13 FOR BY ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit... 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." QUESTION #43) You Trinitarians, who think that the name Jesus Christ only applies to the Son, how do you deal with the fact that Jesus Christ is in the church? Is the Son in the church? Act 1:9 "And when he (Jesus, the Son)... was taken up;... 10 ...while they looked..., two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME JESUS, which is taken up from you into heaven, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO into heaven." Mat 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also THE COMING OF THE SON of man be... 29 Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days... 30 ...THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON of man in heaven: and then... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." QUESTION #44) Has the Son of man come? Has tribulation passed? YET IS NOT JESUS

CHRIST IN THE CHURCH? Mat 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together IN MY NAME, THERE AM I in the midst of them." Col 1:27 "...This mystery... is CHRIST IN YOU (saints that is)..." Col 3:11"...Christ is all, AND IN ALL." ." 1 Cor.12:13 "FOR BY ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body... and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT..." 1 Co 12:27 "Now ye are the body OF CHRIST, and members in particular." Trinitarians are blinded to the fullness and the power of the name of Jesus Christ because they falsely believe the name of Jesus Christ only applies to the Son!

Getting back to our walk through 1 Cor. 12, as it applies to Christ1 Co 12:18 "But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." QUESTION #45) Do you not see that this also applies to the Son ("for so also is Christ")? Is Christ Himself NOT set in by the One God Himself? Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law," Joh 3:16 "For God... gave his only begotten Son... 17 For God sent... his Son into the world..."

So you see, "concerning spiritualities... ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT... SO ALSO IS CHRIST..." (1 Cor 12:1,11,12). For- Col 3:11 "...CHRIST IS ALL, AND IN ALL." Col 2:9 "For IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily. 10 AND YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM..." 1 Cor 12:11 "But ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT.... For... so also is Christ" Joh 4:24 "...God is a Spirit." NOT three spirits, or seven spirits, but ONE SPIRIT, ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT! So don't try tell me "that the apostle Paul is EXPLICITLY NOT DEFINING THE GODHEAD in this case." BECAUSE HE MOST DEFINITELY IS! For "Concerning spiritualities... SO ALSO IS CHRIST"!!! You have been duped into your narrow-minded Trinitarian view that- "In verse one, Paul tells us what he's going to talk about, "Now concerning SPIRITUAL GIFTS..." You foolish Trinitarians think the name of the godhead is "Holy Trinity" and that's why you don't see that 1 Cor. 12th chapter is talking about "SO ALSO IS CHRIST." Because when you see the name Christ, all you see is the Son! Oh Foolish Trinitarians, who has

bewitched you? QUESTION #46) Joh 14:9 "Jesus saith... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" So why don't you Trinitarians see God the Father when you see Jesus? Phi 2:9 "...God... hath... given him A NAME WHICH IS ABOVE EVERY NAME: 10 That at THE NAME OF JESUS every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER." QUESTION #47) Do you not see that even God the Father has included Himself under the umbrella of the NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST??? Col 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Act 4:10 "Be it known unto you all... the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified... 12 ...THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN given among men, whereby we must be saved. Joh 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." Jesus said- Joh 12:32 "And I, IF I BE LIFTED UP from the earth, will draw all men unto me." He never said "if the Trinity be lifted up"! But you and your Trinitarians have attempted to snub out that most spiritual of "spiritualities," of which Paul was speaking in 1 Cor. 12, "THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT... FOR... SO ALSO IS CHRIST!" You've attempted to raise up a name (Trinity) above that precious name of Jesus! 1 Jo 3:23 "AND THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT WE SHOULD BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST..." QUESTION #48) SO WHY DOESN'T THE BIBLE SPECIFICALLY TELL US TO BELIEVE IN A TRINITY OF SEPARATE PERSONS IF IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT DOCTRINE THAT IT IS ESSENTIAL TO OUR SALVATION? AND WHERE ARE WE COMMANDED TO BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF THE TRINITY? Questions 49 through 51- "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" do not equal exclusively Trinitarian language! (( 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the LORD Jesus Christ, and the love of GOD, and the communion of the Holy SPIRIT, be with you all. Amen."... Remember "kai"? Let's interpret your verse including the full definition of kai2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the LORD Jesus Christ, (and, even, that is) the love of GOD, (and, even, that is) the communion of the Holy SPIRIT, be with you all. Amen." Eph. 5:18-20, "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with

the Spirit speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the LORD, giving thanks always for all things to GOD and the Father IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST." "...GOD (and, even, that is) the Father IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST." - Eph. 5:20. QUESTION #49) Just because these passages "mention" Father, Son, and Holy Ghost does not make them either Oneness or Trinitarian. What makes Eph. 5:20 Oneness is the phrase"the Father IN THE NAME... JESUS CHRIST" You won't ever hear a Trinitarian call the Father "Jesus Christ," now, WILL YOU? What is so repugnant to Trinitarians about we Oneness worshipping the Father in the one name of Jesus Christ? Joh 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name" Joh 10:25 "Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me." Phi 2:10 "That AT THE NAME OF JESUS every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER." Isa 45:22 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn BY MYSELF, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That UNTO ME EVERY KNEE SHALL bow, every tongue shall swear." Isa 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my GLORY WILL I NOT GIVE TO ANOTHER, neither my praise to graven images. 11 For mine own sake, EVEN FOR MINE OWN SAKE, WILL I DO IT: FOR HOW SHOULD MY NAME BE POLLUTED? and I will not give my glory unto another." QUESTION #50) If Eph 5:18-20 is speaking Trinitarianese, why does Paul not call God, the Spirit, and Jesus Separate Persons? Why does the Bible not say "the blessed Trinity" as Trinitarians have formulated in their minds, but is NEVER, EVER FORMULATED IN SCRIPTURE? Why do you hold it in such high regard if it is never expressly formulated into a commandment? And why am I considered a heretic by you and yours for speaking against a doctrine that is NEVER FORMALLY OR SPECIFICALLY STATED IN SCRIPTURE? ((But the apostle Paul is not implying that the Father or the Holy Spirit is not Lord or that Christ isn't God. He is just distinguishing between each person of the Godhead.)) QUESTION #51) Since, as we have seen in our study of 1 Cor. 12, and Eph. 4:7-11, that Paul himself teaches that God gives prophets, that Jesus is the same who gives the gifts, including prophets, and that "all these worketh that one and the selfsame spirit," why, scripturally, should we think that Paul is "distinguishing between each person"? Questions 52 through 53- Jesus- the Root and the Offspring.

((Now to tackle another verse which you try to pervert:)) ((<"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (Father) and the offspring (Son) of David" Rev. 22:16)) ((As "the Root...of David," Jesus Christ brought David into existence. As "the Offspring of David," Jesus came into this world, born a Jew from David's line. Both the deity and the humanity of Jesus are evident here, but He isn't claiming to be the Father. Look at Matt. 22:41-45, "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them saying, 'What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?' They said to Him. 'The Son of David.' He said to them, 'How then does David in the Spirit call Him "Lord," saying: "The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool'"? If David then calls Him "Lord," how is He his Son?'")) As you are well aware, from my postings to Betelgeuse which you have referred, that I brought up this point myself, that Jesus' statement in Revelation 22:16 is HIS ANSWER to His question in Matt. 22:41-45. So, I'm very delighted that you have put these together. However, when you say... ((What is Jesus claiming here. I'll submit to you that He is saying that He as the Son of David is also his creator - Jesus is the Root and Offspring of David - NOT GOD THE FATHER.)) I'm afraid I'm not quite sure I'm following your logic here. QUESTION #52) In what sense is God the Father, "the Father," if He is not the creator? QUESTION #53) Can't your God-the-Father do anything by Himself? What important thing has your God-the-Father done in and for this world all by Himself, acting as a Separate Person? No wonder Jesus said these words back in the Old Testament- Deu 32:36 "WHERE ARE THEIR GODS...? 39 See now that I, EVEN I, AM HE, AND THERE IS NO GOD WITH ME" 1 King 18:27 "And... Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked." I'm afraid you have very much proven (not disproven) Oneness by your admission ((As "the Root...of David," Jesus Christ brought David into existence. As "the Offspring of David," Jesus came into this world, born a Jew from David's line)) Mal 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?" Isa 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art OUR FATHER, our redeemer; THY NAME IS FROM EVERLASTING."

Compare Isaiah 63:16 (above) with 9:6Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME (Jesus) shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Questions 54 through 55- Isaiah 9:6 the Son's name is THE everlasting Father! Isaiah 9:6, "For unto us a child is born, UNTO US A SON IS GIVEN: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and HIS NAME SHALL BE called Wonderful, Counselor, THE mighty God, THE everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." (( You also quote Isaiah 9:6... I suppose what you are trying to say is that the SON is also God the Father, since He is called "The everlasting Father." Is this really what Isaiah is saying? No. This title, as well as the other titles in this verse, denotes the coming Messiah's CHARACTER. This particular expression translates as "father of eternity." The coming Messiah is described as eternal in nature, implying also that He is Creator, the Lord of time and history. Obviously, this has nothing to do with Jesus' supposed identity as God the Father.)) And again you continue to remove your God-the-Father from creation. He really didn't do anything here, did He? Actually, no, I'm not JUST (( trying to say... that the SON is also God the Father)) I'm trying to show you that JESUS IS THE NAME of BOTH the Father and the Son, for- "HIS NAME SHALL BE called... THE everlasting Father." QUESTION #54) Are you telling me there are two God's who are Fathers? One "Father-ofeternity, and one just God-the-Father? I really am afraid you're going to have to explain your point a little clearer, I really don't see the difference! And by the scriptures, PLEASE! Joh 8:19 "Then said they unto him, WHERE IS THY FATHER? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: IF YE HAD KNOWN *ME*, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO... 24 I said therefore unto you, that YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: **FOR IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE, YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS**. 25 Then said they unto him, WHO ART THOU? And Jesus saith unto them, EVEN THE SAME THAT I SAID UNTO YOU from the beginning... 27 THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT THAT HE SPAKE TO THEM OF THE FATHER." Before you get to carried away in judging me as a heretic, you really, REALLY ought to SERIOUSLY consider, reconsider, and reconsider again the above passage! QUESTION #55) Do you really NOT believe that Jesus is THE "I AM" of whom He spake when He was speaking to the Pharisees OF THE FATHER? Compare- Joh 6:44 "No man can come to me, EXCEPT THE FATHER... DRAW HIM..." with Jesus' saying- Joh 12:32 "...**I**... WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO *ME*." Compare- Joh 1:29 "...John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY THE SIN of the world... 31 And I knew... HE SHOULD BE MADE MANIFEST..." with- 1 Joh 3:1 "Behold... THE FATHER... 5 ...YE KNOW THAT

HE WAS MANIFESTED to take away our sins..." Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of JESUS CHRIST... 11 "...I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST:...17 ...I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead... 21:7 ...7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and **I** will be his God, and he shall be MY SON." Question 56- God is one, Christ is all, and you are complete in Him. ((Your next verses (Gal. 3:20, Col. 3:11, and Col. 2:10) explain nothing but your ability to create any teaching you want by melding a few verses together with the exact words you need to form your own mixed up belief.)) Gal 3:20 "...GOD IS ONE." Col 3:11 "...CHRIST IS ALL, and in all." Col 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily. 10 AND YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM." QUESTION #56) Rather than give me a railing accusation, will you please do me a favor and show me how a Trinitarian would interpret these verses using scriptural crossreferences as you have promised you were going to do, OK? To me they are most self explanatory, and clearly, definitely show the fallacy of the Trinitarian position. Questions 57 through 62- Jesus = Father = the Holy Spirit = heresy or scripture? ((...It is heretical, though, to say that Jesus is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - this is no where taught in the Bible - as we have just seen by your great display of "Biblical evidence" that we now covered. You have to try a little bit harder,)) OK, I will try harder. How about this... JESUS IS THE FATHERJoh 14:7 "IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Joh 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Joh 8:19 "Then said they unto him, WHERE IS THY FATHER? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: IF YE HAD KNOWN *ME*, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO... 24 I said therefore unto you, that YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: **FOR IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE, YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR

SINS**. 25 Then said they unto him, WHO ART THOU? And Jesus saith unto them, EVEN THE SAME THAT I SAID UNTO YOU from the beginning... 27 THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT THAT HE SPAKE TO THEM OF THE FATHER." QUESTION #57) How much stronger words would Jesus have to use than- "If ye had known me, ye should have known my father also... If ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins... He spake to them of the father." Before you would be convinced that Jesus Christ IS the Father, and to believe this is essential to your salvation? What else would Jesus have to say? QUESTION #58) If Jesus says "...my father... If ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins... He spake to them of the father..." and you tell me "It is heretical... to say that Jesus is (the) Father" where does that put you in relation to Christ, and salvation? QUESTION #59) Can you show me any scripture where Jesus, just as specifically, says, I will die in my sins if I don't believe that He and the Father are Separate Persons? Or that they are a Trinity?

JESUS IS THE HOLY GHOSTCol 1:26 "Even the MYSTERY WHICH HATH BEEN HID from ages and from generations, but now is made MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory:" 1 Jo 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come (present tense- look it up!) in the flesh is of God: 3 And EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSETH NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME (present tense- look it up!) IN THE FLESH IS NOT OF GOD: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 Jo 1:7 "For many DECEIVERS are entered into the world, WHO CONFESS NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME (present tense) IN THE FLESH. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." 2 Co 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU, EXCEPT YE BE REPROBATES?" QUESTION #60) How much stronger words would scripture have to use than "Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" Before you would be convinced that Jesus Christ IS the Holy Ghost in the believers, and to believe this is essential to your salvation? What else would scripture have to say to convince you that the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ? QUESTION #61) If scripture says "Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" and

you tell me "It is heretical... to say that Jesus is (the) Holy Spirit" where does that put you in relation to salvation? QUESTION #62) Can you show me any scripture at all that, just as specifically, says I will be a deceiver, anti-christ, reprobate, or not of God if I don't believe that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Separate Persons? Questions 63 through 64- Commandment or vain tradition of men? Next, what we are discussing here, I think you'll agree, isn't JUST about comparing the doctrines of Oneness and Trinity, is it? But it is also about our respective methods of Biblical interpretation. Allow me to demonstrate how to recognize the incorrect method of Biblical interpretation... Satan in the garden gives us the prime example of the incorrect method... "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, YEA, HATH GOD SAID, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye may not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:1-5. "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, TRANSFORMING THEMSELVES into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; FOR SATAN HIMSELF IS TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed AS the ministers of righteousness..." - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. What Satan did here (even though he quoted the word of God), was to lay aside the commandment of God, and preach his personal interpretation of what God said. The problem is, Satan's interpretation is SPECIFICALLY CONTRADICTED by the expressly stated Word of God. Jesus had the same problem to contend with, and expresses exactly what that problem is... "Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, WHY DO THY DISCIPLES TRANSGRESS THE TRADITION OF THE ELDERS? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, WHY DO YE ALSO TRANSGRESS THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD BY YOUR TRADITION? For God Commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father and mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father and mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or mother, he shall be free. THUS HAVE YE MADE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT BY YOUR TRADITION. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me. But IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN" Matthew 15:1-9.

"Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, WHY WALK NOT THY DISCIPLES ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION OF THE ELDERS...? He answered and said unto them...Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do...FULL WELL YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR TRADITION...MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED: AND MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS DO YE"- Mark 7:6-13. Now, let's look at how this pattern PERFECTLY, AND EXACTLY FITS my contentions against your tradition of the Trinity... "Then ((Pilgrim)) asked him, WHY WALK NOT THY DISCIPLES ACCORDING TO THE ((CREEDS (Nicene, Athanasian, etc.))) OF THE ELDERS...? ((TomR)) answered and said...Laying aside the commandment of God **The Lord our GOD IS ONE Lord -Mk 12:29, Christ is all -Col. 3:11, and ye are complete in him -Col 2:10**, ye hold the tradition of men, as ((Within the nature of the ONE true God, there are three separate persons... Trinity)): and many other such like things ye do...FULL WELL YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR TRADITION... MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED: AND MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS DO YE"- Mark 7:6-13. So then, let's ask these questionsQUESTION #63) What specific commandment, as directly quoted from the scriptures, can you possibly insert that I am accused of laying aside? QUESTION #64) If the Trinity is only stated in Creeds, and not scripture, HOW IS the Trinity doctrine NOT MERELY A TRADITION OF MEN of which Christ says- "makes the word of God OF NONE EFFECT? Questions 65 through 68- Manifestations, Operations, Administrations. ((You speak of "manifestations", "operations", or "administrations" of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, but the Bible never uses these terms to describe them...)) QUESTION #65) Although the Bible NEVER calls the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit "Separate Persons," does the Bible NOT use the words "operation," "manifest(ations)," or "administrations" in reference to the offices or works of the Lord? Psa 28:5 "Because they regard not THE WORKS of the LORD, nor THE OPERATION of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up." Isa 5:11 "Woe unto them that... 12 ...regard not THE WORK OF THE LORD, neither consider THE OPERATION of his hands. 13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE..." Joh 1:31 "And I knew him not: but that he should be made MANIFEST to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water." Joh 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and

he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I WILL love him, and will MANIFEST MYSELF to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt MANIFEST thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Rom 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I WAS MADE MANIFEST unto them that asked not after me." Rom 16:25 "...JESUS CHRIST, according to the revelation of the mystery... 26 "But now IS MADE MANIFEST..., made known..." 1 Cor 12:5 And there are differences of ADMINISTRATIONS, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of OPERATIONS, but it is the same God which worketh all in all... 12... SO ALSO IS CHRIST." 1 Tim 3:16 "And WITHOUT CONTROVERSY great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Pet 1:19 "...Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who VERILY... WAS MANIFEST in these last times for you." 1 Jon 3:1 "Behold... the Father... 5 And ye know that HE WAS MANIFESTED to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1 Jon 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 Jon 5:7 "For there are three that BEAR RECORD in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three ARE ONE." QUESTION #66) Pilgrim, you yourself said- "When Trinitarians speak of God (I shall remind you) they refer to God as only ONE, but who *MANIFESTS* Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit." If you meant these manifestations were Separate Persons, why didn't you say Separate Persons? If you meant "manifest Themselves" why did you say"manifests Himself," are you trying to confuse us? If you use the phrase- "manifests Himself" why are you so repulsed by Oneness who use the same terminology? And why are you so dead-set determined to incorporate extra-biblical terminology to define the God whom you worship if you believe in the Bible as you claim? QUESTION #67) Why do Trinitarians IGNORE the words and definitions the Bible SPECIFICALLY USES, and opt instead for words and definitions the Bible NEVER uses? It is because- laying aside the commandment of God... "Holy One" (48 x's in the Bible), ye hold the tradition of men- "Trinity" (never once in the Bible), making the commandment of God (The Lord our God is one Lord) of none effect through your tradition.

((Do you not also, like I do, use the word "Incarnation" - that's not in the Bible.))

The word incarnation is used to "symbolize" in a word a very specifically stated Biblical eventMat 1:18 "Now THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST WAS ON THIS WISE: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD OF THE HOLY GHOST... 1:20 ...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost... 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US." This, and corresponding scriptures, are what is specifically referred to in the definition of "incarnation." If your understanding or perception of the meaning of the word "incarnation" differs from this and similarly expressed scripture, then no, I wouldn't believe in "your" definition of "incarnation." According to Merriam-Webster a word is "a pronounceable sound or combination of sounds that EXPRESSES AND SYMBOLIZES AN IDEA." Biblical definition of "word"- "Strong's reference number: 3056, Greek: LOGOS, Definition: something said (including the thought)... A TOPIC (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive... a computation; spec. (with the art. of John) THE DIVINE EXPRESSION (i.e. Christ)" -Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. QUESTION #68) Is it scripturally acceptable to add words (thoughts, ideas) to God's word in order to formulate doctrine? Pro 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Rev 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." 1 Tim 1:3 "As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine." 2 Tim 3:16 "All SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works." There are, it is true, other words that are not found in scripture that we use. However, each and every one of them has a SPECIFICALLY STATED scriptural doctrine, concept, idea, etc. For example, the following (English) words are not found in scripture either, but their concepts are most clearly and explicitly stated in scriptureBIBLE- "...What thou seest, write in a book (biblios)..." -Revelation 1:11. "Bible... from Greek biblion, pl. of biblios... a book" -Webster's Dictionary. RAPTURE- "The state of being carried away with joy, love, etc...." -Webster's. "In a

moment, in the twinkling of an eye... we shall be changed..." -1 Corinthians 15:52. "Then WE... SHALL BE CAUGHT UP... in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..." -1 Thessalonians 4:17. ((How about "verbal plenary" - are those words in the Bible?)) As I've pointed out to you before"verbal- 1. Of, relating to, or associated with WORDS." "plenary- 1. COMPLETE IN ALL RESPECTS; unlimited or full. 2. Fully attended by all qualified members." "inspiration- ... 5. Theology. DIVINE GUIDANCE OR INFLUENCE EXERTED DIRECTLY on the mind and soul of humankind." (Quotes from the American Heritage Dictionary Scripturally stated, it means thisProverbs 30:5 "EVERY WORD of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 ADD THOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS, LEST he reprove thee, and THOU BE FOUND A LIAR." 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL good works." Questions 69 through 73- The word Trinity is not in the Bible. (( Lastly, you pick on the word "Trinity" because it's not used in Scripture, well neither is "Oneness"!... The issue is whether or not the terminology expresses a Biblical teaching. My belief is that Trinitarian terminology does, while Oneness terminology doesn't.)) QUESTION #69) If the Bible is complete (which it is), and we are not to add to it's words (concepts, ideas), why does the Bible not somewhere EXPRESSLY STATE the doctrine of the Trinity IF IT BE TRULY A SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE? QUESTION #70) If, as you say concerning cross-referencing of scripture- "any cultist or ordinary pagan can do that and form their own belief" how is it that I can quote scripture that expressly states the "God is one/Christ is all" doctrine, but the same cannot be done for the Trinity doctrine of Separate Persons in the godhead? QUESTION #71) Since Trinitarians can cross-reference NO scriptures that expressly state the Trinity doctrine even though - "any cultist or ordinary pagan can do that and form their own belief," how is the Trinity doctrine then NOT EVEN AS BIBLICALLY FEASIBLE AS "ANY CULTIST or ordinary pagan('s)" religious beliefs, and therefore TOTALLY UNTENABLE? QUESTION #72) Since the Trinity doctrine of three Separate Persons is a) NOT expressly stated in scripture; b) Has NO descriptive terminology found in scripture; and c) CANNOT

be expressed by merely cross-referencing scripture; HOW MUCH LESS BIBLICAL WOULD A DOCTRINE HAVE TO BE BEFORE YOU WOULD CONSIDER IT UNSCRIPTURAL? What else does "unscriptural" mean to you people?? QUESTION #73) Since the Trinity is, at best, IMPLIED in scripture (ignoring the fact that it is explicitly contradicted in scripture for a moment), should any other, or all doctrines that are merely implied in scripture be considered as valid as the Trinity doctrine? And if not, why not? Question 74- John 1:1 the Word was God. (("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1). In your response to this verse, you refuse to deal with it as a verse that speaks of a Triune God, but use your erroneous argumentation to skip around it.)) Psa 33:6 "By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of THEM BY THE BREATH of his mouth... 9 For HE SPAKE, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast." Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him..." QUESTION #74) Since we are made in God's image, where does the Bible, contradictory to that image, say that God's "word" is different than a man's word? Is my "word" a Separate Person from me, even if it were to be miraculously made flesh, and I was to dwell within my word? Laying aside the commandment of God (the word of the LORD... THE BREATH of his mouth... For HE SPAKE...), ye hold the tradition of men (speaks of a triune God... that the "SON" preexisted... as a person)... Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition... Making the word of God (God created man in his own image) of NONE EFFECT by your tradition, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED... -Mk 7:6-13. Questions 75 through 92- The Son- eternal or begotten? ((Do you believe that the "SON" preexisted (as a person not just as a thought or something) before the Incarnation?)) I am very glad you asked this question. And I have a question for youQUESTION #75) Where does the Bible SPECIFICALLY SAY that the WORD existed as the SON eternally? Apparently you and I DON'T agree on the definition of the IncarnationLuk 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also THAT HOLY THING which shall be BORN OF THEE SHALL BE called THE SON OF GOD." Gal 4:4 "But WHEN the fulness of THE TIME WAS COME, God sent forth HIS SON, MADE OF A WOMAN, made under the law."

Again, the definition of the Biblical word- "word"- "Strong's reference number: 3056, Greek: logos, Derivation: Derived from 3004. Definition: something said (including the thought); by impl. A TOPIC (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extens. a computation; spec. (with the art. of John) THE DIVINE EXPRESSION (ie Christ)" -Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. Joh 1:14 "And THE WORD (thought, topic, divine expression) WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only BEGOTTEN of the Father,) full of grace and truth." Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Joh 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED in the name of the only BEGOTTEN Son of God." Act 13:33 "God HATH FULFILLED the same UNTO US their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in THE SECOND PSALM, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE." Heb 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Heb 5:5 "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, TO DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee." QUESTION #76) Does the word "begotten" mean eternal to you Trinitarians? Does it NOT mean something in reference to time, and therefore, SPECIFICALLY NOT eternal? (Especially since the scriptures so often qualify the term "begotten" with "THIS DAY"!!!) BEGOTTEN- "Strong's reference number: 3439, Greek: MONOGENES, Derivation: Derived from 3441 1096 (see below), Definition: only born, i.e sole MONO-genes: "Strong's reference number: 3441, Greek: MONOS, Derivation: Derived from 3306, Definition: remaining, i.e. sole or single; by impl. mere." -Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. mono-GENES: "Strong's reference number: 1096 Greek: GINOMAI, Derivation: A primary word. Definition: TO CAUSE TO BE ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflex.) TO BECOME (COME INTO BEING), used with great latitude (lit. or fig., intens., etc.) QUESTION #77) For example, was Abraham's son Isaac an 'eternal son' since he was "BEGOTTEN" by Abraham? And if not, according to Trinitarian logic, why not? Heb 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac... HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN son." QUESTION #78) Where does the Bible say that we are to believe on the name of His only

'ETERNAL' Son? QUESTION #79) If the Bible says to believe on His BEGOTTEN Son, and Trinitarians change that to mean 'ETERNAL' Son, how are they NOT then preaching another Christ? 2 Cor 11:3 "But I FEAR, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, WHOM WE HAVE NOT PREACHED, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." QUESTION #80) How is it that BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT TRINITARIANS HAVE CHANGED THE MEANING OF 'BEGOTTEN SON' TO 'ETERNAL SON' this does not PROVE CONCLUSIVELY that **TRINITARIANS DON'T EVEN BELIEVE JOHN 3:16**??? Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life." Therefore, laying aside the commandment of God: "BEGOTTEN Son... believeth IN HIM," ye hold the tradition of men ((the "SON" preexisted... as a person))... Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition... Making the word of God of NONE EFFECT by your tradition, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED... -Mk 7:613.

Now this doctrine of "eternal sonship" if that indeed be what you are speaking about in saying "the Son preexisted" is NOT AT ALL A SCRIPTURAL DOCTRINE. If you're not talking about "Eternal Sonship" please excuse me! But in case any one else believes it, consider this... Although the above scriptures adequately contradict the doctrine of the 'eternal sonship', allow me to quote from Adam Clarke, a Methodist commentator, writing against this heretical doctrine of 'eternal sonship.' (I do not quote A. Clarke here as though I consider him to be an authority, but merely because in this instance, his words are very appropriate)"...The doctrine of 'eternal Sonship of Christ' is, in my opinion, anti-scriptural, and HIGHLY DANGEROUS. This doctrine I reject for the following reasons: "1st. I have NOT been able to find ANY EXPRESS DECLARATION IN THE SCRIPTURES concerning it. "2dly. If Christ be the son of God as to his Divine nature, then he cannot be eternal; FOR SON IMPLIES FATHER; AND FATHER IMPLIES, IN REFERENCE TO THE SON, PRECEDENCY IN TIME, if not in nature too. Father and son imply the idea of generation; and generation implies a time in which it was effected, and time also antecedent to such generation. "3dly. If Christ be the son of God, as to his Divine nature, THEN THE FATHER IS OF

NECESSITY PRIOR, CONSEQUENTLY SUPERIOR to him. "4thly. Again, IF THIS DIVINE NATURE WERE BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, THEN IF MUST BE IN TIME; I.E. THERE WAS A PERIOD IN WHICH IT DID NOT EXIST, AND A PERIOD WHEN IT BEGAN TO EXIST. THIS DESTROYS THE ETERNITY OF OUR BLESSED LORD, AND ROBS HIM AT ONCE OF HIS GODHEAD. "5thly. To say that he was begotten from all eternity, is, in my opinion, absurd; and THE PHRASE 'ETERNAL SON' IS A POSITIVE SELF-CONTRADICTION. ETERNITY IS THAT WHICH HAS HAD NO BEGINNING, nor stands in any reference to time. Son supposes time, generation, and father; and time also antecedent to such generation. Therefore the conjunction of these two terms, Son and eternity is absolutely impossible, as they imply essentially different and opposite ides. "The enemies of Christ's divinity have, in all ages, availed themselves of this incautious method of treating this subject, and on this ground, have ever had the advantage of the defenders of the Godhead in Christ. THIS DOCTRINE OF THE 'ETERNAL SONSHIP' DESTROYS THE DEITY OF CHRIST; now, if his deity be taken away, the whole gospel scheme of redemption is ruined. ON THIS GROUND THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST CANNOT HAVE BEEN OF INFINITE MERIT, AND CONSEQUENTLY COULD NOT PURCHASE PARDON FOR THE OFFENSES OF MANKIND, NOR GIVE ANY RIGHT TO, OR POSSESSION OF, AN ETERNAL GLORY. The very use of this phrase is but absurd and dangerous; therefore let all those who value Jesus and their salvation abide by the scriptures. This doctrine of the 'eternal sonship'... I must and do consider as an awful heresy, and mere sheer Arianism... From such heterodoxies, and their abettors, may god save his church! Amen!" Adam Clarke, Clarke's Commentary. (Adam Clarke has been called "the greatest Methodist Bible commentator to have ever lived"). QUESTION #81) In what way has Adam Clarke erred in speaking out against this heretical doctrine of 'eternal sonship'? QUESTION #82) Where does the scripture "expressly declare" the 'eternal sonship' doctrine? QUESTION #83) "If Christ be the Son of God as to his Divine nature..." HOW can he "...be eternal; for Son implies father; and father implies, in reference to the son, PRECEDENCY in time, if not in nature too."? QUESTION #84) "If Christ be the Son of God, as to his Divine nature, then..." HOW IS NOT "the Father... of necessity prior..." and "consequently superior to him."? QUESTION #85) "Again, if this Divine nature were begotten of the Father, then..." HOW CAN IT NOT "...be in time?" How can there NOT be "a period in which it did not exist, and a period when it began to exist."? HOW would this NOT destroy "...the eternity of our blessed Lord, and robs him at once of his Godhead."? QUESTION #86) How is it NOT ABSURD "...To say that he was begotten from all eternity"? How is NOT "...the phrase 'eternal son'... a positive self-contradiction."?

QUESTION #87) How does NOT "...This doctrine of the 'eternal sonship' destroy... the deity of Christ"? QUESTION #88) How is Christ 'eternally begotten'? Is He not quite done being begotten? Can he be considered to be God Almighty if he is never "done" being begotten? How have not the Trinitarians in formulating this doctrine made Christ out to be a semi-god, or an inferior god, and thereby NO GOD AT ALL (in their opinion)? QUESTION #89) Furthermore, if the power and authority of the Son is NOT to last forever, how can He be called the 'eternal son'? 1 Cor 15:28 "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, THEN SHALL THE SON ALSO HIMSELF BE SUBJECT unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." QUESTION #90) If the deity that is in Christ is NOT the one and the selfsame eternal Spirit Himself, how can Jesus be said to be God? How then have Trinitarians NOT DESTROYED THE DIVINITY OF CHRIST in this false doctrine of 'eternal sonship'??? Heb 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." QUESTION #91) Why do Trinitarians insist that Jesus Christ is a name that only applies to the Son? In other words, why don't Trinitarians accept that the Deity in Christ IS our one God the Father, and it was merely the word made flesh, in which that Spirit dwelled, that was begotten (made flesh) in the fullness of time, and thereby the whole temple, the man, and the God within, that is manifested by the name of Jesus Christ? Joh 14:7 "IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, SHEW US THE FATHER, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 BELIEVEST THOU NOT THAT I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but THE FATHER that DWELLETH IN ME, he doeth the works. 11 BELIEVE ME THAT I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME: or else believe me for the very works' sake. "

(("The only begotten of the Father..." (v. 14) shows us that John is speaking of the Son. So the Son became flesh. NOW, do your famous inserting: "In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God." There! That's it! This is what the verse IS saying!)) The Bible doesn't say- "the Son became flesh" the Bible saysJoh 1:14 "And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Heb 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" Luk 1:30 "And the angel said unto... Mary... 31 ...thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS... 35 ...The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee... THEREFORE also that holy THING which SHALL BE BORN of thee SHALL BE CALLED the Son of God." The Bible saysGal 4:4 "But WHEN THE FULNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME, God sent forth his Son, MADE OF A WOMAN, made under the law," QUESTION #92) If the "word" was "eternally" a "son" before the Incarnation, who is His eternal mother? (At this point I would like to point out to you that at YOUR (but by no means my) precious council of Nicea, where the Trinity doctrine was first given "official" recognition, there actually was a group of YOUR brethren there who believed the Holy Ghost was the virgin Mary- "Is there one, who fears God, and who reads these lines, who would not admit that Paganism alone could ever have inspired such a doctrine as that avowed BY THE MELCHITES AT THE NICENE COUNCIL, THAT THE HOLY TRINITY CONSISTED OF 'THE FATHER, THE VIRGIN MARY, AND THE MESSIAH THEIR SON'? Is there not one who would shrink with horror from such a thought? What, then, would the reader say of a church that teaches it's children to adore such a Trinity as that contained in the following lines?- 'Heart of Jesus I adore thee; Heart of Mary, I implore thee; Heart of Joseph, pure and just; In these three hearts I put my trust.' If this is not Paganism, what is there that can be called by such a name? Yet this is the Trinity which now the Roman Catholics of Ireland from tender infancy are taught to adore..." Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons. He quotes from the Quarterly Journal of Prophecy, July 1852, p. 244 for his statement that the Melchites at the council of Nicea claimed Mary to be part of the Trinity.) Questions 93 through 99-Jesus praying in the garden of Gethsemene. ((Another statement that I want to deal with is the one Paul made when he asked you, "Who did Jesus pray to in the Garden of Gethsemene?" "Good question", I thought. But when you replied, you avoided the question altogether, by saying, "Would you have God praying to another God?")) QUESTION #93) What, answering a question with a question is not a legitimate response? Let me remind you that Jesus did it! If this isn't speaking of the humanity of Christ, if he was praying AS a Separate Person of the deity- could he be a God and need to pray to another God for anything? QUESTION #94) If Jesus was NOT praying merely as a priest and as an example, and then only in the days of his flesh, where do we see Jesus praying to the Father anywhere in scripture, while in heaven (before the incarnation or after He rose from the dead)?

QUESTION #95) If Jesus was a co-equal but "Separate Person" from the Father, why would the Son "need" to pray to the Father in respect to his Divinity? Is your "God-theSon" subordinate to the Father? How have you NOT made your "God-the-Son" subordinate to the Father in formulating this doctrine that it was one God-Person praying to another God-Person? QUESTION #96) In what sense did Jesus become a man if he didn't hear, learn, receive, and pray as a man? Did Jesus, in your perception, also hear, learn, receive and pray as to His Divinity, or as to his humanity only? QUESTION #97) Did Jesus stop being God then, according to your Trinitarian dogma, in order to become a man? Did Jesus cease to be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and eternal when he became also a man? QUESTION #98) Can God stop being God and still be eternal? If God stopped being God, how could your God-the-Son still be, or have ever been, God? QUESTION #99) Did your God-the-Son surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how can He still be God? (Reader, please remember that the term "God the Son" is extra/non-biblical. It is another "word" that was added by Trinitarians in a manner that the Bible specifically commands us Pro 30:6 "ADD THOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS, LEST HE REPROVE THEE, AND THOU BE FOUND A LIAR.") Questions 100 through 101- Trinity is confusing. First and last = second person? 1 Cor 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion" My goodness but your Trinity God is confusing! How different from the Biblical GodMar 12:29 "God is one" Col 3:11 "Christ is all" Col 2:10 "And ye are complete in him" Joh 8:14 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I BEAR RECORD OF MYSELF, yet my record is true... 24 I said therefore unto you, that YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: FOR IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM (HE), YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS... 27 THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT that he spake to them of the Father." Col 2:9 "For in (Christ) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Isa 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I AM THE FIRST, AND I AM THE LAST; AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD." Isa 48:11 "For MINE OWN SAKE, EVEN FOR MINE OWN SAKE, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY UNTO ANOTHER.

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I AM HE; I AM THE FIRST, I ALSO AM THE LAST." Rev 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST: 18 I AM HE THAT LIVETH, AND WAS DEAD; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;" Rev 22:12 "...Behold, I COME QUICKLY... 13 I AM... THE FIRST AND THE LAST... 16 I JESUS... I AM THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING of David... 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, SURELY I COME quickly. Amen. Even so, COME, LORD JESUS. QUESTION #100) Is there a "First and the Last" other than Jesus Himself? QUESTION #101) Would He that is "First and the Last" say that "Beside me there is no God" if there were a Trinity of persons?

As to your statement that- (("God is One-Christ is all" - you just spliced two separate portions of Scripture together, that my friend, is bad hermeneutics. You've heard of this one, "Judas hung himself", and "Jesus said, 'Go and do likewise'" - that is what you are, in fact, doing with Gal. 3:20 & Col. 3:11.)) The point is- "Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men... Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition... Making the word of God of NONE EFFECT by your tradition, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED..." -Mk 7:6-13. Obviously, There is no command for us to hang ourselves. That would actually be contradictory to the commandment- 1 Cor 3:17 "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." "God is one/Christ is all" does NOT break any commandments. "God is three separate persons" DOES break the commandment- Mar 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord OUR GOD IS ONE Lord" And it breaks it very specifically by the traditions of men- "Laying aside the commandment of God (OUR GOD IS ONE ), ye hold the tradition of men... (God is three separate persons) FULL WELL YE REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR TRADITION... MAKING THE WORD OF GOD Of NONE EFFECT by your tradition, WHICH YE HAVE DELIVERED... -Mk 7:6-13. Questions 102 through 104- The full Deity and full humanity of Jesus- Jesus prayed. ((Then you proceeded to tell why you thought Jesus prayed. The purpose of Paul's question

was to deal with the fact that two people were interacting - Jesus and the Father. BTW you still have to answer this question.)) You, Pilgrim, are contradicting yourself here. You yourself specifically said- "God is 3 distinct persons (not people)." And now you are arguing that they ARE TWO PEOPLE. QUESTION #102) Why do you Trinitarians emphasize that the Son praying to the Father means- "two PEOPLE were interacting"?!? What SCRIPTURE specifically says this? (Allow me to point out that the burden of proof IS on you, not me, since it is YOUR doctrine that compromises and makes of none effect the first commandment of our Lord Jesus Christ- The Lord our God is ONE LORD" -Mark 12:29.) Jesus was fully God, AND fully humanDeity- Ruler whose goings forth are from everlasting -Micah 5:2; Humanity- A virgin conceives, and brings forth a son -Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:21-23, Deity- In the beginning, was God -John 1:1; Humanity- Woman's seed -Genesis 3:15 Deity- Before Abraham was I AM -John 8:58; Humanity- MADE IN the fulness of TIME -Galatians 4:4 Deity- Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever -Hebrews 13:8; HumanityIncreased in wisdom, stature, and favour -Luke 2:52 Deity- Gives living water -John 4:14,7:37-39; Humanity- Thirsted -John 19:28 Deity- Is the bread of life -John 6:35; Humanity- Hungered -Matthew 4:2 Deity- Gives rest -Matthew 11:28; Humanity- Wearied -John 4:6 Deity- Heals the sick -Mark 1:34; Humanity- Scourged & beaten -John 19:1,3 Deity- Casts out devils -Matt.12:28; Humanity- Tempted by the devil -Luke 4:2 Deity- Raised up His own body from the dead -John 2:19-22; Humanity- Died -John 19:30, I Corinthians 15:3 Deity- Everlasting Father -Isaiah 9:6, John 10:30,14:9, Rev.20:6-7; Humanity- Father is greater than He -John 14:28 Deity- Knows all things -John 21:17; Humanity- Knew not the hour of "that day" Mark 13:32 Deity- King of kings -Revelation 19:16; Humanity- Made Himself a servant -Philippians 2:7-8 Deity- Answers prayer -John 14:14; Humanity- Prayed -Mark 1:35 Deity- Forgives sins -Matthew 9:2-5; Humanity- Condemned sin in the flesh -Romans 8:3, Made to be sin for us -2 Cor. 5:21 Deity- Head of all power -Colossians 2:10, Matthew 28:18; Humanity- Could of His own self do nothing -John 5:30 Deity- Is the root of David -Rev. 22:16; Humanity- Was the offspring of David -Mark 12:35-37, Rev. 22:16 ((But in regards to your response that Jesus prayed to fulfill the law. Your claim is that the ground for prayer as being part of the Law is found in Psalm 65:2. This verse doesn't speak of prayer as being part of the Law of God (c'mon TomR.) - please read it again.)) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." -John 1:1,14. "...As concerning the FLESH CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, GOD blessed for ever. Amen" -Romans 9:5. "And every spirit that confesseth not that JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH is not of God..." -1 John 4:3. "O thou that hearest prayer, UNTO THEE SHALL ALL FLESH COME" -Psalm 65:2. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, *OR THE PROPHETS*: I am not come to destroy, but TO FULFILL" -Matthew 5:17. "For I have given you an example, that ye should DO AS I HAVE DONE..." -John 13:15. "And He said to them all, If any man will COME AFTER ME, let him DENY HIMSELF, and take up his cross daily, and follow me" -Luke 9:23. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who...made Himself of no reputation, and TOOK UPON HIM THE FORM OF A SERVANT, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion AS A MAN, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death..." -Philippians 2:5-8. "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, LEAVING US AN EXAMPLE, THAT YE SHOULD FOLLOW..." -1 Peter 2:21. QUESTION #103) How could Jesus leave us an example AND NOT PRAY? QUESTION #104) Since- Col 2:9 "...In (Christ) DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily. 10 And ye are COMPLETE in him, which is the head of all principality and power:" how could Jesus NOT pray in the direction of ONLY THAT part of HIMSELF that was NOT HUMANITY? If He were to pray to HIS NAME, His name ALSO signifies His humanity, and since He sets the example for us, we would be thus empowered, and legitimized, to pray to OUR name. If He prayed IN GENERAL "to Himself," then, as our example, WE could pray to ourselves. Since He prayed to that which is Deity alone, WE CANNOT PRAY TO ANY PART OF OURSELVES, since NOT one part of OURSELVES is Deity! Therefore, HE HAD TO PRAY, AND, being our example, He had to pray directing His prayer TO THE FATHER (DEITY ONLY), ALSO IN ORDER TO CONTRADICT HUMANISM! Do you not see that? Questions 105 through 113- A schizophrenic God? (Jesus prayed- continued). ((Who is Jesus praying to? Himself? Not only does your god have multiple personality disorder (("schizophrenic")), not only does he talk with himself, but he seeks to deceive all those who follow and worship him. He tells them he is praying to the "Father" when in actuality he's talking with himself. So, I must also ask, did Jesus really personally interact with the Father when He heard, learned and received all things from the Father (Matt.

28:18; John 3:35; 8:26, 40; 15:15)? According to your theology, this is only a temporary appearance right? - a "play"? God is the actor and the earth is His stage. Christ's ministry on earth was merely a hoax. Your Jesus didn't really NEED to pray, he just pretended he was praying...)) (Note: this Trinitarian, in using the word schizophrenic, is referring to where I had accused Trinitarians of worshipping a "schizophrenic god" because that's what "three persons in one" means- multiple personality disorder.) QUESTION #105) Why do you NOT believe that Jesus can be both God AND man? If Jesus is FULLY BOTH God and man, why can't you accept that He MUST FULLY, TOTALLY FULFIL BOTH ROLES in order to ACTUALLY BE both? QUESTION #106) Could He only be a human (according to your doctrine) IF He QUIT BEING GOD? QUESTION #107) Could He only be God IF He NEVER ACTUALLY robed Himself in flesh, AND ACTUALLY DID WHAT MEN MUST DO? Rom 9:5 "...Concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." QUESTION #108) Who else then would Jesus pray (communicate, submit) to, AS A MAN, if in fact He is both the one true God and man, IF NOT THAT PART of His nature which IS God, and NOT man- the Father? 1 Cor 11:3 "But I would have you know, that ... the HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD." 1 Cor 12:12 "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." QUESTION #109) Where is there any contradiction with the physical parts of the human body (made in God's image) COMMUNICATING WITH, and in subjection to THE HEAD OF THE BODY, yet being one and the selfsame? Are OUR body parts "Separate Persons" since they are in subjection to, and MUST communicate with, the head of the body? If there is no contradiction with the human communicating between mind and body members without separation of persons, why is there a contradiction, perceived by you, in the same instance, in the Godhead? QUESTION #110) How is realizing, and expressing THE ABSOLUTE NEED FOR BODY PARTS TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE HEAD in any way confused with "schizophrenia"??? But, IF WE MAKE those body parts to be "Separate Persons" how have we NOT THEN made that body a schizophrenic mess without any true unity of mind? How then IS NOT YOUR TRINITY A SCHIZOPHRENIC GODHEAD??? Let me reiterate, we are not contending over "simple" differences of members in or of one body. Different MEMBERS (i.e. mind, body, soul, hands, feet, etc.) in or of one body is not schizophrenia- it is normal, expected, and ESSENTIAL (NEEDED) for the existence of any complex entity. SEPARATION OF PERSONS IN ONE BODY, ON THE OTHER

HAND, IS ABNORMAL, UNACCEPTABLE, AND SCHIZOPHRENIC- AN ILLNESS, AND AN ABOMINATION! And that is where the "rubber meets the road" (to use your words) with my contention, and that of the scriptures, with the Trinity doctrine of "Separate Persons" in the one God! Mar 3:25 "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."

((Your Jesus didn't really NEED to pray, he just pretended he was praying to someone to teach an example. So, the personal interactions between the Son and the Father are merely fake - aren't genuine. Jesus was an impostor - He only interacted with Himself to "fulfill the Law"!?!! But in actuality if "prayer" is part of the Law, then Jesus really didn't fulfill it since He wasn't really praying to anybody.)) "Jesus really didn't fulfill it since He wasn't really praying to anybody."??? What YOU are telling ME here (deny it all you wish, that doesn't change reality), is that YOU DON'T REALLY BELIEVE (or don't understand that) JESUS (God) really and truly could and DID BECOME FULLY A MAN, AND STILL REMAINED THE ONE TRUE GOD! AT THE SAME TIME- FULLY BOTH! Otherwise, what is the problem with Jesus being both man and God at the same time, and functioning FULLY as both, without their being a separation of persons? (( Why did Christ pretend that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were, (at least), distinct from each other, if it wasn't true? Why didn't He just be "Jesus" and not bring up the "Father, Son or Holy Spirit?" - Or is he just a so-called "Sadist in the Sky", who likes to confuse people then send them to Hell for not believing what they couldn't get out of Scripture?)) QUESTION #111) WHERE does Christ PRETEND to be separate persons? Where does He specifically tell us- "I and the Father are two Separate Persons in one Triune God"??? Where did Christ or the apostles EVER say (not merely imply that) Jesus and the Father are separate persons? NOWHERE, that's where! Your doctrine is based on implications, not specifically stated scriptural truths! Jesus DID NOT PRETEND TO BE SEPARATE PERSONS, HE SAIDJoh 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Joh 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; AND HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER?" Rev 22:16 "I Jesus... testify unto you... I am the root and the offspring..." Joh 8:13 "The Pharisees therefore said unto him, THOU BEAREST RECORD OF

THYSELF; thy record is not true. 14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though *I BEAR RECORD OF MYSELF*, *YET MY RECORD IS TRUE*:.. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. 19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO... 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE, YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS. 25 Then said they unto him, WHO ART THOU? And Jesus saith unto them, Even THE SAME THAT I SAID UNTO YOU FROM THE BEGINNING... 27 THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT THAT HE SPAKE TO THEM OF THE FATHER." QUESTION #112) Is one task more difficult than another for God? Then why is it so unacceptable to Trinitarians that one God could be both Father and Son without Separation of Persons? Gen 18:14 "Is any thing too hard for the LORD?" Jer 32:17 "Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee." QUESTION #113) If the doctrine of Separation of Persons for multiple tasks doesn't come from the Bible, where can it come from other than paganism, or philosophy? 1 Cor 12:2 "Ye know that ye were Gentiles, CARRIED AWAY UNTO THESE DUMB IDOLS, EVEN AS YE WERE LED... 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all... 11 BUT ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT... 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: SO ALSO IS CHRIST. Questions 114 through 115- In His image- mind, body, and soul. ((You certainly have a distinction between the Father and the Son, as we saw just previously "It was not the deity of Christ that prayed - it was the man". And you must have a distinction between the Son and the Spirit, because when you say that the Spirit dwells within believers you don't mean to say that the actual incarnate Jesus (Son) dwells there, do you?)) I never made the contention that there were NO distinctions whatsoever between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. ((You also make reference to God being "seen as distinct parts of the whole being of God just as our mind, body and soul are separate manifestations of ourselves, yet they are merely members of the same being". I'll have you know that Trinitarians have used this analogy throughout the ages as a way to explain the trinity - and now you try and use it for your "Oneness" message. This analogy also shows a distinction between each, because when we speak of the "body" we are not then speaking of the "mind" also. The body is not the mind. So, you definitely show a distinction of persons when you need to - so take a

look at your "trinity" first and see if it is Biblical.)) QUESTION #114) So why then, don't Trinitarians use the analogy correctly? QUESTION #115) Is my mind a separate Person from my body (1Co 11:3)? Does not my body cry out to my mind when it is in pain (Luk 22:44)? Does not my body do whatever my mind tells it (Joh 5:30)? Does not my mind dwell in me, and I dwell in my mind (Joh 14:11)? Does not my body and my mind answer to the name of TomR (Phil2:10-11)? Do not my mind, my body, and my soul testify of my name, TomR, and yet none are separate persons from the others (Act 4:10-12)? Then why is it so hard to understand these things also concerning Jesus Christ (1Co 12:11-12)? Question 116- The Most High overshadowed Mary. ((...In Luke 1:35 we find the angel informing Mary, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One [Jesus Christ] to be born will be called the Son of God." Though THE HOLY SPIRIT was the primary agent through whom the Incarnation was brought about, we are told in Hebrews 10:5 that IT WAS THE FATHER who prepared a human body for Christ. Moreover, JESUS is said to have taken upon HIMSELF flesh and blood - AS IF IT WERE AN ACT OF HIS OWN INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGN WILL (Heb. 2:14).)) This is total Oneness doctrine! All I had to do was take out the word "Trinity" from the beginning! Read the above and just zero in on the words I've capitalized, and you'll see Oneness JUMP OUT AT YOU! Do you not see- If the Spirit was the "agent" of the Incarnation, yet it was the Father, yet it was "Jesus... HIMSELF... as if it were an act of HIS OWN... will," where is separation of persons? Especially when you yourself said- "Jesus is said to have taken upon HIMSELF..."? QUESTION #116) And what makes you think "Most High" must mean ONLY the Father? Is Jesus NOT also Himself called the "Most High"? "And thou (John the Baptist)... shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare HIS ways" -Luke 1:76. Joh 3:31 "HE THAT COMETH FROM ABOVE IS ABOVE ALL" WITH: Joh 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM FROM ABOVE: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." Luk 6:35 "...ye shall be the children of the Highest" WITH: Rev 21:6 "...I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end... 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. Eph 4:9 "(Now that he ascended, what is it but that HE ALSO DESCENDED first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is THE SAME ALSO THAT ASCENDED UP FAR ABOVE ALL heavens, that he might fill all things. Questions 117 through 125- Elohim- one God or plural Gods?

((TomR, "have we forgotten the Old Testament our schoolmaster?" I could start out by saying that God is a plurality by the name Elohim, but I read your response to it, yet it doesn't hold water if in fact this does in fact speak of God in a plurality of persons (not attributes). When "elohim" is spoken of regarding false gods it speaks of them as more than one - why does this change when it speaks of the True God. If the Old Testament was to be clear on the subject of the "Oneness" of God, the singular form "Eloah" should've been used as in Duet. 32:15-17 or Hab. 3:3. This singular form could've been used consistently. Yet it is only used 250 times, while the plural is used 2,500 times. This then turns the argument in favor of the plurality in the Godhead.)) Right off I see FIVE problems with your reasoning here. #1- Scholars recognize that the word 'Elohim' does NOT necessarily mean plurality of persons: "God, The idea advanced that the word 'Elohim' referred to a plurality of persons when referring to the living God in the Godhead HARDLY FINDS NOW A SUPPORTER AMONG SCHOLARS. It is what grammarians refer to as 'majesty' or 'strength' or 'power.' -Smith's Bible Dictionary, ed. S.N. Teloubet (Teacher's Edition; New York: Holt, Reinhart, and Winston, 1948), p. 220. QUESTION #117) Since Hebrew is their language, where was the word "Elohim" referred to by true Hebrews, with reference to THEIR GOD, to mean plurality of persons? NOWHERE! Mal 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?" Joh 8:41 "...we have one Father, even God."

#2- God's Word NEVER criticized the Jew's belief in their one God, their pure monotheism, nor even intimated that their pure monotheism was not the truth about GodJoh 4:22 "Ye worship ye know not what: WE KNOW WHAT WE WORSHIP: for salvation is of the Jews." "Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that HE UNDERSTANDETH AND KNOWETH ME, that I am the Lord..." -Jeremiah 9:23-24. "YE ARE MY WITNESSES, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: THAT YE MAY KNOW AND BELIEVE ME, AND UNDERSTAND THAT I AM HE: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour... ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God... Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One (Jesus, as you have said!) of Israel... I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King" -Isaiah 43:10-15.

QUESTION #118) Why did the Lord tell the Jews that they understand and know Him, and that they knew who they worshipped, but they understood nothing about any Trinity of persons? QUESTION #119) Were the true Jews unaware of the nature of the Son of God? "Now all this was...spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" -Matthew 1:21-23, & Isaiah 7:14. "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?... What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if thou canst tell?" -Prov. 30.4. (...Christ...ascended up on high... HE THAT DESCENDED IS THE SAME ALSO THAT ASCENDED up far above all... that He might fill all..." -Ephesians 4:7-10. "...How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth Him Lord; and whence is He then his son?" -Mark 12:35-37, and Luke 20:41-44. "I Jesus... I am the root and the offspring of David..." -Revelation 22:16.

#3- The word Elohim in reference to the Lord is qualified many, many, many, many times in scripture as to His numerical value. The word deer is a plural word, like Elohim, so let's compare: The buck our deer is one buck. With: "The Lord our God is one Lord" -Mark 12:29. For there is one deer. With: "For there is one God..." -1 Timothy 2:5. But deer is one. With: "...But God is one" -Galatians 3:20. Have we not all one buck? Hath not one deer sired all our fawns? With: "Have we not all one Father? Hath not one God created us?" -Malachi 2:10. To us there is but one deer, the buck. With: "To us there is but one God, the Father..." -1 Corinthians 8:6. One deer and buck of all. With: "One God and Father of all..." -Ephesians 4:6. QUESTION #120) If we say that deer is one, that there is one deer, and that we have one deer, then HOW HAVE WE NOT DISQUALIFIED THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY HAVE THREE SEPARATE DEER? What number of God has the Bible declared the Lord to be? "The Lord our God is one Lord" -Mark 12:29.

#4- The word Elohim DOES NOT always automatically indicate a plurality of persons in the Bible:

Exo 7:1 "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (Elohim) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." QUESTION #121) Was there then more than one person of Moses (who, by the way, was also made in God's image)? Absolutely preposterous notion, that Moses himself must also be, according to Trinitarian logic, three separate persons! It is no less as preposterous to say that God is a Trinity of separate persons!

#5- You are NOT arguing a plurality of "persons" here, YOU ARE ARGUING FOR A PLURALITY OF GODS!!! In every one of your "pluralities" NOT ONE mentioned "Persons"! ((Joshua 24:19, "You cannot serve the Lord, for He is a holy God..." [Literally - holy Gods].)) QUESTION #122) Why then are Trinitarians so defensive when we Oneness accuse them of worshipping more than one God? QUESTION #123) WHY DON'T YOU JUST ADMIT THAT YOU BELIEVE IN MORE THAN ONE GOD, AS YOU HAVE JUST DONE HERE??? Oh, and by the way, (though admittedly taken out of context) the Bible does occasionally use the word "persons." For example: Job 13:10 "He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons." 2 Ch 19:7 "Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts." The point is, along with your argument, the Lord could have just as easily SPECIFICALLY SAID there are three separate PERSONS in the godhead, IF HE MEANT PERSONS! QUESTION #124) You have proven NOTHING by your "He could have said" statements. If "HE could have said" anything, WHY DIDN'T HE SAY "TRINITY OF SEPARATE PERSONS" EVEN JUST ONCE IN THE BIBLE IF THAT'S WHAT HE MEANT AND WANTED US TO BELIEVE? QUESTION #125) Why does the Bible COMMAND us to believe that "the LORD our God is ONE LORD" if He really meant- "The Lord our God is a Trinity of Separate Persons"??? Questions 126 through 128- Let US MAKE man. ((You've also dealt with the fact that when God often speaks of Himself, He clearly uses the plural pronoun - but in actuality, you don't deal with it at all.)) (("Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness" (Gen. 1:26). (To dispel

your argument - when God speaks of Himself, He uses the plural, but when spoken of in narrative, "So God created man in HIS own image; in the image of God HE created him..."(v. 27) it uses the singular - therefore, proving a triune God - plural yet singular.))) QUESTION #126) Oh really? Does God EVER in the Bible say "We three created"? Has God NOT QUALIFIED MANY TIMES OVER THE NUMERIC VALUE OF THE CREATOR? And what about Isaiah 44:24, among others? "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself" -isaiah 44:24 "But the Lord is the true God...and an everlasting King... The gods THAT HAVE NOT MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, EVEN THEY SHALL PERISH from the earth, and from under these heavens" -Jeremiah 10:10-11. "At that day shall a man look to HIS MAKER, and his eyes shall have respect to THE HOLY ONE..." -Isaiah 17:7. "...See, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the Lord hath done this, and THE HOLY ONE of Israel HATH CREATED IT" -Isaiah 41:20. "...Your Holy One, the creator..." -Isaiah 43:15. With: "...Jesus of Nazareth...thine Holy One..." -Acts 2:22-27. QUESTION #127) Why did He say HOLY ONE so many times if He really meant "Holy Trinity"? I'll tell you why, because He didn't mean "Holy Trinity" He meant "Holy One" and that's why He said it the way He did!!! Simple, eh? ;-) "...I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF" -Isaiah 44:24. "All things were made BY HIM (not them); and without Him (not them) was not anything made that was made... He was in the world, and the world was made by Him (not them), and the world knew Him not" -John 1:3,10. "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the first born from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence" -Colossians l:16-18. Deu 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is NO GOD WITH ME:" Isa 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD." Isa 45:5 "I am the LORD, and THERE IS NONE ELSE, THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE

ME."

QUESTION #128) Is there no other answer to whom the "US" may refer to? Notice that God said- "Let US MAKE man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness" (Gen. 1:26). BUT, at the actual point of the creation, it is written- "So God CREATED man in His own image; in the image of God HE (NOT THEY) CREATED HIM..."V. 27. Make is the Hebrew word: `asah, which means, according to Strong's: "to do or to make, in the broadest sense and widest application" However, the word "create" is the Hebrew word: bara', meaning: to create; (qualified... as formative processes)." Different words, indicating different processes and purposes, in reality. Therefore NOT to be confused as the same event, and therefore no evidence at all that "separate persons" created! So, although it specifically says "He CREATED him" and it was done- man was created. BUT, man WAS NOT "FINISHED" being MADE from God's perspective at that point1 Cor 3:9 "FOR WE ARE LABOURERS TOGETHER WITH GOD: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon." Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 TILL WE ALL COME IN THE UNITY OF THE FAITH, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, *UNTO A PERFECT MAN*, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" So, when God said- "Let US MAKE man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness" (Gen. 1:26)," it is evident that God was speaking to all His ministers to comeRom 4:17 "As it is written... God... CALLETH those things which BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY WERE." Questions 129 through 131- Thy Maker is thy husband. ((Psalm 149:2, "Let Israel rejoice in their Maker..." [Literally - Makers]... Isaiah 54:5, "For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is His name..." [Literally - Makers, husbands].)) QUESTION #129) Is there more than one husband of the Church? Is that really what you are saying? Is that really what you believe?

Eph 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;... 27 That he might PRESENT IT TO HIMSELF a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself... 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY: BUT I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH." 2 Cor 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I HAVE ESPOUSED YOU TO ONE HUSBAND, that I may present you as a chaste virgin TO CHRIST. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Isaiah 54:5, "For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is His name..." Joh 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not." QUESTION #130) So WHY are you so defensive when it is said that Trinitarians worship more than one God? Are Trinitarians then NOT hereby proven to be spiritually adulterous in taking unto themselves more than one husband? 1Jo 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is." QUESTION #131) And to what image are we being "made"? Will WE be Trinities of persons then when we see Him as He is? Question 132- The LONE Creator. ((Ecc. 12:1, "Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth..." [Literally Creators].)) Isa 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth by MYSELF." ((Also as you like to point out, the Shema - Deut. 6:4, "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one!" The words "our God" are plural in the Hebrew text and literally mean "our Gods". But the main argument lies in the Hebrew word "one" (echad). This word, echad, does not mean an absolute "one" but a compound "one." This is clearly seen by looking through the Hebrew text:.. Therefore, it is seen that the Hebrew Scriptures teach a triune God.)) QUESTION #132) OK, you've convinced me that you believe in more than one God! Is that what you believe in- a PLURALITY of GODS?

Besides, let's look at some other passages using the Hebrew word echad (one), and see how the numerical value appears. (These verses would totally contradict themselves if one doesn't mean numerically one! There are many more examples in the scriptures.) Deu 19:15 One (echad) witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Gen 27:38 "And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one (echad) blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept." Questions 133 through 134- Trinity- a newly formed doctrine. QUESTION #133) So, when did this Trinity doctrine first get formulated? "The doctrine of the Trinity itself, however, is not a Biblical doctrine... It is the product of theological reflection upon the problem... The ecclesiastical doctrine of the Trinity is not only the product of genuine Biblical thought, it is ALSO THE PRODUCT OF PHILOSOPHICAL SPECULATION, WHICH IS REMOTE FROM THE BIBLE". -The Christian Doctrine of God, by Emil Brunner. "When one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century... From what has been seen thus far, the impression could arise that THE TRINITARIAN DOGMA IS IN THE LAST ANALYSIS A LATE 4TH CENTURY INVENTION. IN A SENSE THIS IS TRUE... The formulation 'one God in three persons' was not established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title "the Trinitarian dogma" "The New Catholic Encyclopedia" pgs. 295-305. QUESTION #134) Does the Bible state, or imply that a fuller revelation of the Godhead would be forthcoming, or does the Bible rather warn against coming false prophets who would bring in heretical doctrines? "...Teach no other doctrine, neither give heed to fables..." -1 Timothy 1:3-4. "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee" -1 Timothy 4:16. "Be not carried away with diverse and strange doctrines..." -Hebrews 13:9. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils..." -1 Timothy 4:1. "...There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them... And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of" -2 Peter 2:1-2. "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, HE HATH BOTH the Father and the Son" -2

John 9. 2Ti 4:2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." Questions 135 through 143- Christ's Baptism. ((Yes, Paul was right in listing the time of Christ's baptism as an instant in which the Trinity is manifested. But according to you, Jesus was acting as a divine ventriloquist, for He was talking with Himself again. Please reread Matt. 3:16-17.)) QUESTION #135) Where then, does Matt 3:16-17 SPECIFICALLY SAY these are three separate persons? Mat 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending LIKE A DOVE, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." This is an interpretation based on what is implied, rather than what is specifically stated. I can't possibly MAKE YOU believe the answers I give, but at least I give you scriptures that DO SPECIFICALLY say what I'm merely pointing out to you. ((Just because it doesn't say exactly, "God is three separate persons" (which in itself can sound ambiguous unless it is stated, "the one God expresses Himself in three distinct ways - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.") But of course, those specific words aren't in the Bible either. But not ONE of the Scriptures you quoted SPECIFICALLY STATED "God is OneChrist is all"...)) EXCUSE ME? Mark 12:29 very specifically says- "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our GOD IS ONE Lord" Col 3:11 very specifically says- "CHRIST IS ALL, and in all." Col 2:9 very specifically says- "For in him (Christ) DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD bodily. 10 AND YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is THE HEAD OF ALL principality and power: 11 In whom ALSO YE ARE CIRCUMCISED... BY THE CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST: 12 BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM... RISEN WITH HIM... 13 ...quickened together WITH HIM..." So, let's ask YOU some questions about YOUR interpretation of Matt. 3:16QUESTION #136) Do we really see the "Trinity" in Matt. 3:16-17, or, again, isn't it really just your imagination or your interpolation, and extra-biblical suppositions that there are three persons present? Joh 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. YE

HAVE NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME, NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE." QUESTION #137) Was Matt. 3:16-17 in any way merely "symbolic" in nature? If not, are you NOT thereby saying you believe the Spirit of God is a dove? Or, is the Spirit of God NO BIGGER THAN A DOVE? By what Scripture then do you justify your evidence that we are SEEING, in Matt. 3:16, the "Person" of the Spirit? Joh 1:18 "NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." QUESTION #138) If Matt 3:16-17 is ACTUALLY MANIFESTING the "person" of the Holy Ghost, can your Holy Ghost "Person" be God? For NO man hath seen God AT ANY TIME? (I'm not saying they didn't see the Spirit descending "as a" dove, I'm just suggesting that, if this IS the so-called person of the Spirit, he isn't much of a "God" is he? Luk 24:39 "...for A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES..." Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." QUESTION #139) Where is there any verse of scripture that specifically teaches this event was anything more than God "bearing witness" of who Jesus was? Where is any verse of scripture that says that this verse is describing and showing "three persons"? QUESTION #140) So, PLEASE, SHOW ME WHERE THE TRINITY DOCTRINE IS ANYWHERE SPECIFICALLY STATED IN SCRIPTURE WITH ANY COMBINATION OF VERSES (TAKEN IN ANY REASONABLE CONTEXT)??? QUESTION #141) Why would the Bible, which is complete (2 Ti 3:17), leave out such CRITICAL WORDING and be so void of definitions of this doctrine, if indeed it is to be esteemed a scriptural doctrine at all (let alone such an important doctrine, as to move you to accuse me of being an heretic for not believing in something you can't even produce scripture to specifically define)? QUESTION #142) Do you NOT yet see what nerve, and audacity it is for you to accuse me of giving you "cop-out answers"? (Since the only source you can provide that AT ALL defines your doctrine are the traditions of men of which Jesus SPECIFICALLY SAID make the commandments of God of none effect!!!) QUESTION #143) How is it possible that you believe you have done any different in making the commandments of God of none effect in this man-made, definition-in-traditiononly doctrine of the Trinity of Separate Persons? Col 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith... Whereof I am made a minister... 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 ...WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU... 28 WHOM WE PREACH, WARNING EVERY MAN... that we may present every man perfect IN CHRIST JESUS: 29

WHEREUNTO I ALSO LABOUR, STRIVING according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you... and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh; 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of THE FULL ASSURANCE OF UNDERSTANDING... 6 As ye have therefore received CHRIST JESUS THE LORD, SO WALK YE IN HIM: 7 Rooted and built up IN HIM (not them)... 8 BEWARE LEST ANY MAN SPOIL YOU through philosophy and vain deceit, AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, AND NOT AFTER CHRIST. 9 FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY. 10 AND YE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, WHICH IS THE HEAD OF ALL principality and power." Questions 144 through 150- Another Helper- Jesus Christ in us. ((Three years later, just prior to His crucifixion, Jesus spoke of the three persons of the Trinity in His Upper Room Discourse. Jesus said to the disciples: "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper that He may abide with you forever - the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14:16-17).)) Check this out, pleaseJoh 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, and SHALL BE IN YOU. 18 I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS: (comfortless: orphanos, FATHERLESS!) I WILL COME TO YOU. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I IN YOU." QUESTION #144) Who is in us? Joh 14:9-20 "Jesus saith unto him... I WILL COME TO YOU... I IN YOU"!!! QUESTION #145) What could possibly be plainer than that? QUESTION #146) If Jesus didn't want us to think the Holy Ghost was He Himself, in us, WHY DID HE SPECIFICALLY SAY- "I WILL COME TO YOU... I IN YOU"? 2Co 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU, EXCEPT YE BE REPROBATES?" QUESTION #147) If Jesus was with them, and WAS GOING TO BE IN THEM, how is this not then ANOTHER Comforter, and yet it is still Jesus? If you say it is a Separate Person, please quote the scripture that specifically says that. Let's look at how the Bible itself interprets a completely different subject for a moment, just to compare the method of interpretationsJoh 6:53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh,

and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." QUESTION #148) Do you believe Christians are cannibals? And if not, why not? QUESTION #149) Does not Christ explain this very verse in the very same reading? Joh 6:57 "*AS* the living Father hath sent me, AND I LIVE BY THE FATHER: *SO* he that eateth me, even he shall *LIVE BY ME*. 58 THIS IS THAT BREAD which came down from heaven: NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." You see, He specifically told them here even how to interpret His saying! "AS... I live... SO... LIVE BY ME. THIS IS THAT BREAD" You see- "live by me" THAT IS the partaking of His life and His blood, NOT eating the way the O.T. fathers ate with their mouths (not as your fathers did eat), but partaking in His life! And still some did not understand, but those who REALLY WANTED TO KNOW didn't run off making up their own impressions of what He said, so He told them the interpretationJoh 6:60 "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, THIS IS AN HARD SAYING; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?... Joh 6:63 "IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT QUICKENETH; THE FLESH PROFITETH NOTHING: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE." QUESTION #150) Do you see what happened here? Jesus gave a teaching, speaking of heavenly things, in a natural manner- a parable. The parable was confused by those who REFUSED TO HEAR JESUS SPECIFIC QUALIFICATIONS of His teachings, but to those who would humble themselves enough to JUST ASK HIM what He meant, He clearly said- "IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT QUICKENETH; THE FLESH PROFITETH NOTHING: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE." Questions 151 through 152- Interpreting Jesus' parables. It is the same with the doctrine of the Trinity. Jesus spoke and taught of spiritual things, in a natural manner, and those who wouldn't receive a love for the truth, went off satisfied with their personal interpretations of what He said, rather than accept HIS SPECIFIC EXPLANATIONS TO THE CONTRARY! QUESTION #151) So where does Jesus SPECIFICALLY INTERPRET ANY OF HIS WORDS TO MEAN SEPARATE PERSONS??? Now look again and see how clearly Jesus Himself interprets for us John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth

him: but ye know him; for HE DWELLETH WITH YOU (Jesus was right there with them), and SHALL BE IN YOU. 18 I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS: (comfortless: orphanos, FATHERLESS!) I WILL COME TO YOU. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I IN YOU." Again, John 14:9-20 "Jesus saith unto him... I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS... I WILL COME TO YOU... I IN YOU"!!! ((If Jesus does not intend to distinguish the Spirit as a distinct way in which God personally exists as God - a distinct "person" of the triune Godhead - by using all this language, then what on earth is He trying to do? TomR, do you see the problem that "Oneness" theology poses, yet?)) QUESTION #152) Much the more rather, if Jesus wants us to think He and the Spirit are Separate Persons why does He SPECIFICALLY SAY " I WILL COME TO YOU... I IN YOU" BUT NEVER ONCE SPECIFICALLY SAYS THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A SEPARATE PERSON FROM HIMSELF??? Mat 13:10 "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because IT IS GIVEN UNTO YOU TO KNOW the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, BUT TO THEM IT IS NOT given... 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 4 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and THEIR EARS ARE DULL of hearing, and THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 1Pe 2:6 "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but UNTO THEM WHICH BE DISOBEDIENT, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and A ROCK OF OFFENCE, even to them WHICH STUMBLE AT THE WORD, BEING DISOBEDIENT." Mar 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The FIRST of all the COMMANDMENTS is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our GOD IS ONE Lord." 1Jo 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." Question 153- Matt. 28:19 and THE (singular) Name. ((... Jesus instructed the disciples, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,

baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19)... The Trinity is definitely taught by the Lord in this passage. It is highly revealing that the word "NAME" is singular in the Greek, indicating that there is one God, but three distinct persons within the Godhead - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus doesn't say, "into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," as if they were merely three designations of a single person. But He says, "into the name [singular] of THE Father, and of THE Son and of THE Holy Spirit...")) QUESTION #153) So, what is THE SINGULAR name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit? (Mat 12:37 "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.") Col 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Act 4:10 "Be it known unto you all... THE NAME OF JESUS Christ...12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN given among men, whereby we must be saved." Questions 154 through 157- The purpose of Baptism. QUESTION #154) According to the scriptures, why are we baptized? 1. Remission of Sinsa. "It behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead... And that repentance and REMISSION OF SINS should be preached in His name among all nations" -Luke 24:47. ("Repent, and BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS... -Acts 2:38). b. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, CALLING ON THE NAME of the Lord." -Acts 22:16. 2. To Put on Christ"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ" -Galatians 3:26-27 3. Salvation"He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved. But he that believeth not shall be damned" -Mark 16:16. ("Be it known unto you all...the name of Jesus Christ... This is the stone...which is become the head... Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -Acts 4:10-12. "God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein... souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto EVEN BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) - 1 Peter 3:20-21. ("By FAITH Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house..." -Hebrews 11:7).

QUESTION #155) Where is there EVEN ONE VERSE of scripture that even intimates at a PURPOSE of being baptized, applying only the titles, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? QUESTION #156) What does being baptized, applying only the titles Father, Son, and Holy Spirit actually DO for the believer, biblically stated? QUESTION #157) If there is no Biblically stated PURPOSE of being baptized, and applying only the titles Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, how is it NOT JUST A WASTE OF TIME, since it accomplishes NOTHING? Questions 158 through 162- How are we Baptized? QUESTION #158) How are we to be baptized? 1. By Immersion"They went down both into the water, both Philip and the Eunuch; and he baptized him..." -Acts 8:38. "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water..." -Matthew 3:16. Strong's Concordance- "#907 baptizo...from a derivative of 911 (bapto); to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet). #911, bapto, a primary verb; to whelm, i.e. cover wholly with a fluid...". 2. In Jesus' Name"Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized INTO Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: that like as Christ was raised up...even so we also should walk in newness of life" -Romans 6:34. "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him... Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him..." -Colossians 2:6,12. "It behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead... And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations" Luke 24:47. ("Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." -Acts 2:38). "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" Acts 8:16 & 19:5. "Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord" Acts 10:48. QUESTION #159) By whose authority are we baptized INTO JESUS' name? 1. Jesusa. "It behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead... And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations" Luke 24:47. ("Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins... -Acts 2:38). "...Believe; in my name..." -Mark 16:17.

b. "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost..." -Matthew 28:19. (Keep in mind that Matthew's statement here is Just one version of the Great Commission, Mark and Luke's versions (above) MUST be considered TOGETHER with Matthew's). QUESTION #160) What then did JESUS say IS THE name of the Father, AND of the Holy Spirit? "I am come in my Father's name" -John 5:43 ("For unto us a Son... is given...and His name shall be called...The Everlasting Father" -Isaiah 9:6) "...The Comforter...is the Holy Ghost...in my name..." -John 14:26. 2. The Apostlesa. Peter: "Jesus...said unto...Peter...I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven..." -Matthew 16:17-19. "Peter said...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ..." -Acts 2:38. b. Philip the evangelist: "...Philip...preached Christ unto them. And... they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" -Acts 8:5,12,16. c. Paul: "...Said Paul, John verily baptized...saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" -Acts 19:4-5. d. All the apostles together: "...Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James...and Simon...and Judas... These ALL continued WITH ONE ACCORD... Peter, standing up WITH THE ELEVEN, lifted up his voice, and said... BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST..." -Acts l:13-14, 2:14,38. QUESTION #161) Why, if your Trinitarian interpretation is correct, did ALL THE APOSTLES WITHOUT EXCEPTION, EVERY TIME, BAPTIZE EXCLUSIVELY IN JESUS' NAME if Jesus is NOT the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit? QUESTION #162) Why weren't John the Baptists disciples baptized into the Trinity, if indeed such exists? Why were John the Baptist's disciples RE-baptized into Jesus' name, if the name of Jesus isn't of the utmost importance? "Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" -Acts 19:2-5. "And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ" -1 John 3:23.

"Now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized...calling on the name of the Lord." -Acts 22:16. "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" -Acts 19:5. Questions 163 through 166- Who to believe- the Apostles, or the Trinitarians? QUESTION #163) Do Trinitarians really think they have a better idea of what Jesus meant in Matthew 28:19 than the Apostles themselves (since the apostles baptized SPECIFICALLY AND EXCLUSIVELY in and INTO the name of Jesus, but Trinitarians do not)? "...Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them... then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer... And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name..."!!! Luke 24:36,45-46. "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following" -Mark 16:20. "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" -John 17:20. QUESTION #164) How can Trinitarians be said to be believers in Christ if they don't believe the testimony of the Apostles whom Jesus Christ Himself commissioned, ordained, and approved, and said we should believe in the words of? "...Fellowcitizens... of the household of God... are built upon the foundation of the apostles..." Ephesians 2:19-20. QUESTION #165) Is there more than one name on which we are commanded to believe in for salvation? QUESTION #166) Do Acts 2:38, 4:12, & Col. 3:17 contradict Matthew 28:19? Or does the Bible teach that JESUS IS THE NAME of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Ghost? Questions 167 through 168- The Name of the Father. QUESTION #167) What is the New Testament name of the Father? "Jesus...lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father... I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world... And I HAVE DECLARED UNTO THEM THY NAME..." -John 17:1,6,26. "I am come in my Father's name..." -John 5:43. "...The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me..." -John 10:25. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called...the Everlasting Father..." -Isaiah 9:6. See also Zech.14:9.

"...He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name..." -Hebrews 1:4. "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named..." -Ephesians 3:14-15. "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow... And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" -Philippians 2:10-11. With Isaiah 42:8- "I am the Lord...and my glory will I not give to another...". QUESTION #168) What name of the Father did Jesus manifest other than Jesus? What other name did Jesus declare than Jesus? Question 169- The Name of the Holy Spirit. QUESTION #169) What is the name of the Holy Ghost? Jesus said "The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name..." -John 14:26. "The mystery which hath been hid... but now is made manifest... is Christ in you..." -Colossians 1:26-27. "Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you..." -1 Corinthians 6:19. "Now the Lord is that Spirit..." -2 Corinthians 3:17. "...The Spirit of Jesus Christ" -Philippians 1:19. "For as the body is one... so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body... and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" -1 Cor.12:12-13. Questions 170 through 173- The Name above all names. QUESTION #170) What is the name above every name? "...A name which is above every name:... the name of Jesus..."-Philippians 2:9-11. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" -Acts 4:12. QUESTION #171) What name is to be used in whatsoever we do in word or in deed? Is baptism NOT done BOTH in word and in deed? "And whatsoever ye do in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus" -Colossians 3:17. QUESTION #172) And what are we if we don't believe the commandments of the apostles are the commandments of the Lord? 1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." 1Ti 6:2 "...These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to

wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 HE IS PROUD, KNOWING NOTHING, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." QUESTION #173) Did the apostles COMMAND everyone to be baptized in the name of Jesus? Act 2:14 "But Peter, standing up WITH THE ELEVEN, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and HEARKEN TO MY WORDS:... 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Act 10:48 "And he COMMANDED them to be baptized in THE name of the Lord." Questions 174 through 181- Paul did not use Trinitarian language. Pilgrim, you quoted 2 Cor. 13:14 , and if you'll remember the word "kai," this verse translates itself, and disproves your Trinitarian conclusion- "The grace of the LORD Jesus Christ, and (kai- and, even, that is) the love of GOD, and (kai- and, even, that is) the fellowship of the HOLY SPIRIT be with you all." ((Gal. 4:6... Eph. 2:18...Eph. 4:4-6... Titus 3:5-6... Rom. 15:16, 30; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 3:3; Gal. 3:11-14; Eph. 2:22; 3:14, 16-17; 5:17-21; Phil. 3:3; Col. 1:6-8; 1 Thess. 1:2-10; 2 Thess. 2:13. All these are just as abundant in Trinitarian language as the ones I wrote out above. Paul was unquestionably a Trinitarian.)) Excuse me, but Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not exclusive terminology that Trinitarians have a patent on, not by any means. Nor do those terms by any means equal, or define God to be, Separate Persons merely by mentioning or listing them, or their attributes, in conjunction with one another. In this you are GREATLY mistaken, and even more so LACKING in ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER as to ANY scriptural basis for the doctrine of a Trinity of Persons in the Godhead since this appears to be your sole evidence after all is said and done. In this you have fallen for one of the biggest hoaxes ever invented by Satan, and perpetrated by his wolves in sheep's clothing. Saying Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is not much different than mentioning a person's body, soul, or mind, for we are made in God's image, and we are NOT TRINITIES of Persons, but persons with differing members that are all members of one and the selfsame person. They all have different purposes, but they are ALL members of the same "person". 1 Cor 12:12 "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: SO ALSO IS CHRIST." The man, Jesus Christ, is in no place in scripture EVER called a Separate Person from God the Father. However, concerning the Son, the scripture says He is-

Heb 1:3 "...The express image of his person" The express image of my person, is my flesh. You can not see my soul, just as you cannot physically "see" God. My flesh, and my words are how my self is manifested to you and others. It is the same with the "man" Jesus ChristJoh 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." 1 Jo 3:1 "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him ... 5 And ye know that HE (THE FATHER) WAS MANIFESTED to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." This is talking about Jesus Christ, GOD HIMSELF MANIFEST in the flesh1Ti 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." It doesn't say "God the Son" was manifested in the flesh. It doesn't say the second person of the Trinity was manifested. (Why, it doesn't even say we saw "God the Son" because God the Son is an unscriptural, unchristian term!). 1Co 8:5 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But TO US THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and (EVEN, THAT IS) one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." Mar 12:29 "...The first of all the commandments is... The Lord our God is one Lord" QUESTION #174) I'll bet you Trinitarians wish that first commandment had never been written, don't you? It would make your life a lot easier if it hadn't been written, wouldn't it? But that is the commandment that we all will be judged by! Why don't/can't you just OBEY IT even at the cost of your own personal interpretations? WHY MUST YOU INSIST ON FORMULATING PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS TO SKIRT AROUND IT, DIMINISH IT, COMPROMISE IT, AND ULTIMATELY AND ACTUALLY TO DISOBEY IT- THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT??? It is because- 1Jo 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." The God breathed scripture says GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH! Rom 9:5 "...As CONCERNING THE FLESH CHRIST CAME, WHO IS OVER ALL, GOD blessed for ever. Amen." 1Jo 5:20 "...Jesus Christ. THIS IS THE TRUE GOD, AND eternal life." (Remember, punctuation in scripture is NOT inspired!)

((All these (scriptures) are just as abundant in Trinitarian language as the ones I wrote out above. Paul was unquestionably a Trinitarian.)) In order to define, describe, and declare the doctrine of the Trinity, some or all of the following terminology is REQUIREDTrinity, Holy Trinity, Divine Trinity, Triune, Three-in-one, Three-of-one, "God the Son", "God the Holy Ghost," Separate Persons, Separate Egos, Separate Individuals, Divine Plurality, Divine Individuality, Divine Unity. QUESTION #175) Where does Paul use ANY of the above terminology ANYWHERE in ANY of his epistles? NONE of this terminology, nor ANY descriptive language anywhere in the Bible defines these concepts. Not in Paul's writings, nor in the whole Bible! Instead, Paul wrote that God gives prophets (1 Cor. 12:18 &28), and Paul says Jesus is the one and the same that gave the gift of prophecy- (Eph 4:7-11), and Paul said the Spirit is the one who gives the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 12:11), and yet Paul says- "ALL THESE WORKETH THAT ONE AND THE SELFSAME PERSON" (1 Cor. 12:12) QUESTION #176) So how is it that Paul teaches a Trinity if this God, Jesus, and the Spirit who gives the gift of prophecy IS ONE AND THE SELFSAME SPIRIT ACCORDING TO PAUL? WAS PAUL TRYING TO DECEIVE US? QUESTION #177) Why do Trinitarians not believe Paul when he said "All these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit"? Do Trinitarians think they know something Paul did not? QUESTION #178) Would a Trinitarian say, referring to God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost that- "all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit"? Why then did Paul? It is because Paul WAS NOT A TRINITARIAN, that's why! It is because when Paul asked His Lord what His name was He said it was Jesus, NOT "Holy Trinity"!!! Paul asked, Act 9:5, "Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I AM JESUS whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." QUESTION #179) If Paul is a Trinitarian, as you have accused him of being, where does Paul ANYWHERE specifically describe the Godhead as Separate Persons? QUESTION #180) If the Holy Ghost in the church is a Separate Person from Jesus, why did He say His name is Jesus? Was the Holy Spirit deceiving Paul? Paul was a Jews Jew- Phi 3:5 "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee" And if the godhead turned out to be a Trinity of Separate Persons, this would have been a MONUMENTAL change in Jewish thought and doctrine! It would have been MUCH MORE than Jesus merely fulfilling the law, as He said. And it therefore, would have been a

MAJOR CONCERN of Paul's to communicate this doctrine clearly, and completely, for he saidAct 20:27 "...I HAVE NOT SHUNNED TO DECLARE UNTO YOU ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD. 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock... 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also OF YOUR OWN SELVES SHALL MEN ARISE, SPEAKING PERVERSE THINGS, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32 AND NOW, BRETHREN, I COMMEND YOU TO GOD, AND TO THE WORD of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified." QUESTION #181) Since Paul did not shun to declare unto us ALL THE COUNSEL of God, and since the things he wrote are the commandments of the Lord, WHERE DOES PAUL COMMAND US TO BELIEVE IN A TRINITY OF PERSONS? Where does Paul say, as you, that those who don't believe in a Trinity of Persons are heretics? Did Paul lie to us then in that he really DIDN'T "declare unto us ALL the counsel of God"? Did Paul have an INCOMPLETE understanding of the godhead that could only be revealed centuries later by pagan philosophers in Christian garb? Questions 182 through 185- John did not use Trinitarian language. ((Also read Rev. 1:4-5, "...Grace to you and peace from HIM WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS TO COME and from the SEVEN SPIRITS who are before His throne, and from JESUS CHRIST, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler over the kings of the earth." As we can also see, John was undeniably a Trinitarian.)) I also suggest to you that you read ALL of Revelation, and how it INTERPRETS ITSELF! For example Rev. 1:1 Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" NOT the revelation of John. NOT the revelation of the Trinity doctrine. VERY SPECIFICALLY- 1 "The REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, FROM HIM WHICH IS, AND WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME QUESTION #182) Who does JOHN reveal is "He which is, and which was, and which is to come"? Rev 1:8 "I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the ending, saith THE LORD, WHICH IS, AND WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME, the Almighty. QUESTION #183) And who is this "Alpha and Omega" who is "He which is, and which was, and which is to come"? Rev 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last... 16 *I JESUS*..." (No wonder it's called "the Revelation of Jesus Christ!)

QUESTION #184) So how is it, or where is it that John says that "He which is, and which was, and which is to come" is a Separate Person from Jesus Christ? How is it then, that this also proves JOHN WAS NOT A TRINITARIAN, he merely wasn't afraid to mention multiple attributes of God? QUESTION #185) Why does John tell us in another place that Jesus (the Alpha and Omega) is "He which is, and which was, and which is to come" if, according to you, in verse 4 he means to demonstrate that they are Separate Persons? Is John trying to confuse us, OR ARE YOU AND YOUR TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE TRYING TO CONFUSE THE ISSUE and trying to ADD to the word of God what SPECIFICALLY IS NOT THERE? Rev 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, IF ANY MAN SHALL ADD UNTO THESE THINGS, GOD SHALL ADD UNTO HIM THE PLAGUES THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK" Questions 186 through 188- The Seven Spirits. ((Also read Rev. 1:4-5, "... SEVEN SPIRITS who are before His throne, and from JESUS CHRIST..." As we can also see, John was undeniably a Trinitarian.)) QUESTION #186) Who, or what, does JOHN THE REVELATOR himself interpret these Seven Spirits to be? Are there now 9 persons in the godhead- the Father, the Son, and the Seven Spirits? Why doesn't John just come out and say these are Separate Persons if that's what he is trying to show us? (After all, John was also a Jew, and being such, he would have thereby believed in the purest form of monotheism known to the world!) Rev 4:5 "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God." Rev 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood A LAMB AS IT HAD BEEN SLAIN, having seven horns and SEVEN EYES, WHICH ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD sent forth into all the earth." QUESTION #187) Are you now going to try telling me that the eyes of Jesus are Separate Persons from God? How is that NOT what you are saying since John says that's what they are, and you used them as evidence that John was a Trinitarian? Why do you have to get absurd in order to prove your doctrine? If it says it, quote it, if it doesn't, deny it, what is so hard about that? QUESTION #188) Isaiah had another interpretation of what the Seven Spirits of Jesus were. Are they all Separate Persons also? Isa 11:1 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And (1) the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, (2) the spirit of wisdom and (3) understanding, the spirit of (4) counsel and (5) might, the spirit of (6) knowledge and of the (7) fear of the LORD"

Question 189- Sabellius and Modalistic Monarchianism. ((This "Oneness" doctrine arose about the third century AD as the result of the teachings of a man named Sabellius... )) Please allow me to quote Webster's (1959) Dictionary under the heading "Monarchianism" which is also known as modalism"...an anti-Trinitarian doctrine or theory CURRENT IN THE CHURCH OF THE 2ND & 3rd centuries in several forms, the common principle of which was that God is a single person as well as a single being... THE ADHERENTS OF THIS... WERE NUMEROUS. In the West they were called Patripassians... while in the East they were usually grouped together under the name of Sabellius". QUESTION #189) If Sabellius vas not around until the third century, but the doctrine of the Oneness of God vas current, with numerous adherents in the 2nd century, how can Sabellius be said to have "logically put together the whole doctrine"? How is this not a ploy to attempt to discredit the Oneness doctrine out of being the more ancient, and therefore undefiled, doctrine? What factual historical evidence do you have for this accusation? Questions 190 through 194- The introduction of the Trinity to Christianity. "A gullible religious world has been DUPED into supposing that Catholicism was dominant as of AD 300-350, and that there was nothing else. NOTHING IS MORE UNTRUE. Jerusalemic Christianity had continued under the names of Modalistic Monarchianism, Noetism, Sabellianism, and Patripassianism. These represented Deut. 6:4, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.' They were numerically superior as of AD 320. (See A.C. McGiffert, pp. 236, 239; R.A. Knox, p. 58; Blunt pp. 332, 340, 412; L. Duchesne, pp. 292-295). These writers prove that Catholicism was weak, and mostly confined to Italy, Sicily, and Greece... Oneness Apostolic Christian preachers like Noetus, Sabellius, Artemon, Paul of Samosata, Bryllus, Donatus, and thousands of others spread Jerusalemic theology... Most people of the 20th century have almost no real concept of theological conditions in the Roman Empire as of AD 160-330. But it was an Empire dominated by Oneness Apostolic Christians adhering to Acts 2:1-4, 38 and Deuteronomy 6:4 principles. This is easy enough to prove. Unfortunately, THESE WERE BY ROME SLANDERED AS HERETICS... How did Catholicism become dominant? Answer, BY BECOMING A POWERFUL AGENCY OF THE ROMAN STATE, HAVING ROMAN LAW BEHIND IT, AND POLITICAL POWER OF A ROMAN EMPEROR... Constantine and the Catholic hierarchy decided that all religions except Catholicism must be systematically erased from the Empire." Rev. M. M. Arnold, D.D., Th.D., Nicea and the Nicene Council, pp. 15-17. This is the church you are claiming allegiance to that deemed the monarchians heretics! Next, I quote World Book, 1984, vol. l9"TRINITY... belief in Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit was FIRST DEFINED by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicea in 325 AD".

HISTORICAL FACT shows that it was the Oneness doctrine that immediately followed the apostles. It was the Trinity doctrine that was the late comer, not even being defined until the 4th century. The council of Nicea, in 325 AD, IS THE ACTUAL BEGINNING OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. It is at that point in history that a Roman Emperor merged his pagan theological empire with nominal Christianity. There are many books which document the extent to which the Roman Catholic Church introduced ancient pagan forms of worship under Christian names and titles ("The Two Babylons" by Rev. Alexander Hyslop stands out as a supreme example). There is also much documentation of the atrocities the Roman Catholic Church committed against believers (as for example, in "Fox's Book of Martyrs" edited by William B. Forbush). It was the Roman Catholic Church which presumed to take Bibles away from the laity teaching that the priests alone could understand it's words. It was the Roman Catholic Church that took the world into that thousand years of spiritual darkness called "the dark ages". Time would fail me, or any other single publication, to list all the unspeakable atrocities of the Catholic Church. Which atrocities remain, at least officially, undenied, unapologized for, and unrepented of by the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, history does point to certain individuals who paved the way to the council of Nicea. They were called Christian apologists. They took on themselves the nasty job of reconciling Christianity with Roman paganism. These were men such as Athenagoras, Irenaeus, and Justin Martyr. Some of these so-called Christians continued to wear the philosophers palliums, distinguishing themselves as philosophers (a practice continued to this day by Roman Catholics, and others). These were men who set the stage for putting their interpretations of the scriptures in authority above God's Word (another practice continued to this day by socalled Christians). But it was at that council of Nicea that the tide was turned against truth, and true Christianity. It was at the council of Nicea that Pagan/Christianity was given the blessing and backing of the Roman Emperor. QUESTION #190) Are you NOT aware that it is the Roman Catholic Church, in it's very first organized rebellion against God's word, that rejected the doctrine of the Oneness of God, by esteeming the traditions of men to be of greater authority? Are you NOT aware that it is to that church that you have associated yourself when you stated- "Christians at that time vehemently spoke out against such blasphemy and excommunicated the people who held such doctrine "? QUESTION #191) What other results of the Nicene council, and others do you also agree with? "One Nicene law made Sunday to be of interest to Catholics. Council members decreed that their newly invented dogma was to be called 'orthodoxy.' Doctrines that differed were to be called 'heresy.' Actually council members legislated that Easter was to be held on the first Sunday after the first full moon of the spring season. This tenet was concretely established... After 325, as noted, the Catholic religion and the (Roman) Empire were regarded as one institution. (J. Laux, p. 355). The power of Roman legions guarded and protected Catholicism, but no other religion. Ecclesiastical canons and political laws were entered on the same books, and one could not be distinguished from the other! (Laux,p. 355). It was a legal offense, a crime, to differ with the Catholic religion; and a person could be imprisoned, his goods confiscated or suffer capital punishment, for daring to publicly

repudiate Catholic dogma. (Robinson, earlier Ages, p. 393)... At Nicea Constantine signed into Roman Law, or else accepted as Law, one of the most lethal of documents that the earth ever witnessed... differing with Catholic they (Oneness) maintained that Mary was the natural mother of those who are in the NT called the brethren of the Lord. (Matt. 13:556). Mind you, the Catholic hierarchy referred to Bible-believers as heretics if they thought that Mary, the Mother of Jesus, had other children..." Rev. M. M. Arnold, D.D., Th.D., Nicaea and the Nicene Council, pp 38-40. QUESTION #192) Do you believe the councils were correct in setting the dates for holidays? Is it scriptural to anathematize people for NOT holding the first Sunday after the first full moon of the spring season? Col 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." See also Gal 4:9 & Rom 14:5 QUESTION #193) Do you also hold with those depraved men that presided over those councils, and excommunicated all who would not abide by their decisions, that Mary is NOT the mother of the Lord's brethren? Mat 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?..." see also Matt. 12:46, John 2:12, 7:3,5, 1 Cor. 9:5, Gal. 1:19. QUESTION #194) Do you really believe your precious councils had the authority to change God's word, and His commandments? Do you really believe everything they determined at those councils? Then why do you support them or justify them AT ALL? Why do you not rather "come out of her (completely) my people that ye be not partaker of her sins?" (Rev 18:4)? Questions 195 through 200- The early church "Creeds." ((Teachings such as this (Oneness) and others that attacked the Trinity, like that of Arius, motivated the early church to define Biblical teaching through the use of creeds. Trinitarianism didn't pop up all of a sudden at the time these creeds were written, but were in existence the whole time - the true church of Christ had always held to this teaching. There are the Nicene, the Apostle's and the Athanasian creeds, to name a few. These are not held as Scripture but were written simply to lay down the truths of Scripture clearly.)) Excuse me again, Pilgrim, but this sounds like another prime example of a cop-out answer. QUESTION #195) Where does God give the councils of man the authority to add to, or even to supplement the word of God? How is this council not just an excuse to change the doctrines as specifically stated in scripture? QUESTION #196) Did any of the "councils" found in the book of Acts have to redefine, or to add to or supplement the word of God by the interpretations of men, or by terminology of pagan philosophers?

QUESTION #197) How did the council in Acts 15 end, but by James MERELY QUOTING SCRIPTURE TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT? Act 15:12 "Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul.... 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared... 15 AND TO THIS AGREE THE WORDS OF THE PROPHETS; AS IT IS WRITTEN, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." QUESTION #198) If known unto God are all His works from the beginning, how come He wasn't able to supply the apostles with the correct terminology in order to define the Trinity, if it truly be of God??? "After Constantine had issued his decree from Milan (313 AD), making the Christian religion the standard religion of the Roman Empire, he called the first Ecumenical, or General Council of the Church, at Nicea, a town in Asia Minor, (325 AD). The council was called for the purpose of harmonizing the different sects that existed among the Christians and to make rules and regulations for the government of the churches throughout the Empire, AND TO DECIDE THE FORMULA AND PRACTICE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH adopted by Constantine, which is named the Nicene Creed... The two most prominent representatives at this Council were Arius, a presbyter from Alexandria, and Athanasius, a deacon, also from Alexandria, each representing a different view of Christianity. THE ARGUMENTS at this Council MUST HAVE BEEN VERY HEATED at times, because as H. G. Wells tells us, ARIUS AND ATHANASIUS ENGAGED IN A FIST FIGHT BEFORE THE EMPEROR. However, the doctrine of the Holy TRINITY WAS ADOPTED, Arianism was denounced." -Sweney Munsen, Antichrist in History, page 7. QUESTION #199) Why did Constantine have to decide the formula & practice of the Christian church if it were already being practiced, and was already taught in the scriptures? Can a pagan, murdering Emperor be more insightful into the truths of God's Word than God's own word itself? QUESTION #200) Are fist fights the way doctrine is to be determined in Christ's church, in your opinion Pilgrim? Are such men who engage in fist fights to be considered as spiritual models of righteousness and spiritual understanding and leadership in your eyes? Did you even realize it was these types of men you are supporting and condoning the actions of by supporting the doctrines developed at their councils? Mat 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my

Father which is in heaven." Questions 201 through 204- The Trinity and the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church. "For more than 30 years THE NICENE CREED WAS ARGUED OVER, REWORDED, FOUGHT OVER, CATHOLIC MEN WERE KILLED, DEPOSED AND ANATHEMATIZED. (Duchesne, pp. 270-302). Catholic bishop murdered Catholic bishop. Hilary had bishops deposed. Greek and Latin words were changed, scrutinized, and meanings were sought. (HOJ Brown, p. 127). some bishops were threatened, beaten and blackballed by men like Hilary and Valens. (Duchesne, pp. 240, 241, 295). Note, Jewish and Gentile Apostolics (Oneness) of Jerusalemic faith, Acts two, WERE NOT INVOLVED IN THIS... Many Roman bishops were ditheists, believers in the Father and in the Son, but did not recognize the Holy Ghost as the Third Person. (Duchesne, pp. 278282). As of February 15, AD 360, THREE DECADES AFTER NICEA, THERE WAS NO REAL TRINITY DOCTRINE. (Duchesne, pp. 246, 293). As late as ca. AD 363, following the Council of Alexandria, Athanasius declared to Emperor Jovian that the Creed of Nicea needed to be completed, so far as concerned the Holy Spirit. (Socrates, iv. 12; Sozomen, vi. 12; Duchesne, p. 293). This implies that at Nicea in AD 325, the Trinity theory had NOT been completed. Why? THE NICENE COUNCIL HAD ONLY PRODUCED DITHEISM. Here we can surmise many things. At this late date (AD 363-366), the Catholics had great difficulty with their EVOLVING Trinity hypothesis. One difficulty was, 'MOST CATHOLIC BISHOPS THEMSELVES DID NOT WANT THE TRINITY IDEA.' THEY DIDN'T FULLY BELIEVE IN IT! Additionally, they were afraid of it. 'Amongst those persons who were willing to grant to the Son likeness absolutely and in essence to the Father, and even to accept, with regard to the first two Persons of the Trinity, the term consubstantial, THERE WERE SOME WHO REFUSED TO MAKE THE SAME CONCESSION AS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. (L. Duchesne, p. 293)... It was following the council of Constantinople, AD 381, and during the Council of Chalcedon, October 8, 451, that to Roman Catholics the Holy Ghost was by their decrees made the Third Person in their Trinity." Rev. M. M. Arnold, D.D., Th.D., Nicaea and the Nicene Council, pg. 42. QUESTION #201) So where and how does history support your hypothesis, Pilgrim, that((Trinitarianism didn't pop up all of a sudden at the time these creeds were written, but were in existence the whole time.))?? The Trinity sure didn't pop up all of a sudden. It had to be refined by pagan philosophers, sold to a pagan Emperor, and enforced by a pagan Imperial army!!! QUESTION #202) So who were these Trinitarians that "were in existence the whole time", and where were they during the time of the first councils that had to be improved upon? Why didn't they just speak up and quote the scriptures that in and of themselves clearly and specifically stated the Godhead to be a Trinity of persons the way James did in the book of Acts? QUESTION #203) If the Trinity was in existence the whole time, why did it take all these councils, and all the philosophic pagan terminology, and all the bloodshed that ensued because of the councils to define the Trinity doctrine?

"After the newly organized Roman Catholic Church was thus set in order with A DECISION BY IT'S NEW HEAD CONSTANTINE, THE ROMAN EMPEROR, THAT THE TRINITY AND THE TRINITARIAN FORMULA ONLY SHOULD BE USED, all who disagreed with this policy were branded as heretics, and MANY OF THEIR LEADERS WERE BANISHED, SUFFERING CRUEL PUNISHMENTS... We invite the reader to compare this first council of the Roman Catholic Church with that of the first apostolic church, which... God had His way, and they were in one accord; the Holy Ghost made the decision. In this first Roman Catholic Council at Nicea, (325 AD), less than three hundred years later, another important decision was to be made; but IT WAS MADE WITHOUT GOD, WITHOUT LOVE, AND WITHOUT UNITY OF SPIRIT... this church meeting was DISGRACED BY A FIST FIGHT, AND THAT DECISION WAS MADE BY AN UNGODLY EMPEROR who had made only a profession of Christianity and that for political gain, without having been baptized. WE ARE MADE TO WONDER WHY PEOPLE WOULD HOLD TO A DOCTRINE WHICH CAME FROM SUCH A SOURCE." -S.C. McClain, Highlights in Church History, pages 27-28. QUESTION #204) Pilgrim, by defending, and siding with the decisions made by the unruly, ungodly men of these councils and the persecutions which followed, HOW ARE YOU NOT A PARTAKER WITH THEM? Act 7:52 "Which of the prophets have not YOUR fathers persecuted? and THEY HAVE SLAIN THEM WHICH SHEWED before of the coming of THE JUST ONE; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers" Questions 205 through 206- The Pagan/Christian Philosophers. QUESTION #205) So where did these so-called Christian philosophers get their Trinity doctrine from if not directly from the scriptures? "Numenius of Apamea (fl. c. 175 AD), a Syrian pagan philosopher, and one of great influence upon the Alexandrian Trinitarians, BOASTED THAT HE HAD GONE BACK "TO THE FOUNTAINHEAD OF PLATO, SOCRATES AND PYTHAGORAS, TO THE ANCIENT TRADITIONS OF THE BRAHMINS, MAGI, EGYPTIANS... AND HAD RESTORED TO THE SCHOOLS THE FORGOTTEN DOCTRINE OF THREE GODS.' Bigg calls Numenius the founder (along with the Catholic Clement of Alexandria) of NeoPlatonism... According to Bigg, 'Numenius... first personified the Arch-Idea of Plato or spoke of it as God.' Numenius wrote concerning his doctrine of three Gods that the first was Mind (Nous), simple and changeless, good and wise. Being changeless, MIND CANNOT CREATE, AND SO THERE IS A SECOND GOD, DERIVED FROM HIM, CALLED THE CREATOR. THIS SON IS NO LONGER SIMPLE LIKE THE FATHER, BUT IS TWOFOLD. A PART OF THE SON IS INCORPORATED IN THE THINGS HE HAD MADE, AND BECOMES THE THIRD GOD, THE WORLD SPIRIT. THIS IS THE TYPE OF PAGAN PHILOSOPHY PREVALENT IN THE SECOND CENTURY, WHICH SPOILED THE MINDS OF SOME GENTILE CHRISTIANS... "Christian apologists who were contemporary with Numenius drew similar conclusions from the teachings of an Alexandrian Jewish philosopher, Philo Judaeus (c. 20 BC-50 AD). Philo was striving to RECONCILE Judaism and GREEK PHILOSOPHY... Philo had a

form of the Logos doctrine ready-made for the Trinitarians who were to spring up in his century. He taught: 'All beings between the perfection of God and the imperfect, finite matter have their unity in, and proceed from, the divine Logos.' Thus a liberal Jewish philosopher of the priestly class in Alexandria was laying the groundwork for the false Trinitarian doctrine even before the Apostle Paul had evangelized the Greek world... "But perhaps Philo's greatest contribution to Trinitarians was his fantastic method of allegorization. This was a gnostic approach of giving HIDDEN, OR HIGHER, SECRET MEANINGS to Scripture. This was especially adopted by Clement of Alexandria, and did much to advance the trinity doctrine... (Clement's method of interpretation survived in power until the Reformation." )..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 116-118. "...The rejection of Modalism (oneness) and the recognition of Christ as the Logos forced upon the west the necessity of rising from faith to a philosophical and, in fact, a distinctively Neoplatonic dogmatic." -Dr. Adolf Harnack, History of Dogma, page 79. QUESTION #206) Why must Trinitarians resort to words and definitions which were formulated in, and adopted from pagan philosophy when the Bible specifically and emphatically warns against this? Deu 6:13 "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name. 14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; 15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth." Deu 13:1 "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Jer 10:2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman," Col 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Question 207- Constantine- presider over the Nicene Council. QUESTION #207) And what of Constantine, the presider over the first council, the Nicene, is he a pillar of spirituality, Pilgrim? "Constantine, who treated religious questions solely from a political point of view, ASSURED UNANIMITY BY BANISHING ALL THE BISHOPS who would not sign the

NEW PROFESSIONS OF FAITH. IN THIS WAY UNITY WAS ACHIEVED. It was altogether unheard of that a universal creed should be instituted solely on the authority of the emperor... Not a bishop said a single word against this monstrous thing." -Walter Nigg, The Heretics, page 102." "...How can we explain the conversion of CONSTANTINE? Actually, his conversion is questionable... The facts plainly show that he was not truly converted- not in the Biblical sense of the word. Historians admit that HIS CONVERSION WAS 'NOMINAL, even by contemporary standards.' ...AFTER HIS CONVERSION, HE COMMITTED SEVERAL MURDERS- including the murder of his own wife and son! According to the Bible 'no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him' (1 John 3:15)." -Ralph Woodrow, Babylon Mystery Religion. Questions 208 through 209- New Creeds meant old truths became heresy. QUESTION #208) Is it possible to devise a new creed by which whoever does not subscribe they are thereby heretics? What happens to all the Christians who preexisted the creeds? Are they heretics also? What do you do with them, Pilgrim? "Is there not something that proves the Trinity a superstition in the very Creed of Athanasius, and in the fact that the church has not awoke her thunders against that long ago. Let us quote part of it. 'Whosoever will be saved must hold the Catholic faith. The Catholic faith is this, -that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... Which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved...' ...the anathemas of heaven FOR THAT OF WHICH THE GOOD PEOPLE OF AN EARLIER WORLD MUST CERTAINLY HAVE HAD NO IDEA." John Miller, Is God a Trinity? pages 34-35. QUESTION #209) Why wasn't scripture alone sufficient in defending against false prophets? Why were creeds needed to formulate doctrines that weren't expressly taught in scripture, if the scriptures were already being believed and upheld? Jud 1:9 "...When contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, DURST NOT BRING AGAINST HIM A RAILING ACCUSATION, but said, THE LORD REBUKE thee." Mat 4:1 "...Jesus... tempted of the devil... 4 ...answered and said, IT IS WRITTEN.. IT IS WRITTEN... IT IS WRITTEN." Question 210- Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, etc. ((But to obliterate your false persuasions, that the early church at the time of the apostles and after were "Oneness" and not Trinitarian, I looked up some quotes for you. Let them speak for themselves:.. Clement... "Brethren, we must think of Jesus Christ as of God." Clement of Rome, Epistle to the Ephesians....)) Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp have all been determined by historians to be Monarchians (Oneness) and not Trinitarians. They never developed any such terminology as "Separate Persons" or Trinity, and that's what makes the difference. Once again allow me to remind you, Pilgrim- mentioning Father, Son, and Holy Ghost has NEVER been sole evidence of

one or the other doctrine- Oneness or Trinitarian! "Dr. Adolf Harnack, the church historian, was prompted to write that the dogmatic teaching of the trinity had built a 'theory of legal factions with no more foundation in fact than the conscienceless personality of a joint stock company created by lawyers for legal purposes.' In other words, the trinity doctrine exists only on paper... No apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ ever taught such a doctrine... NONE OF THE IMMEDIATE DISCIPLES OF THE APOSTLES (E.G., CLEMENT, IGNATIUS, HERMAS, OR POLYCARP) TAUGHT SUCH A DOCTRINE... Who began such a teaching?... TRINITIES ABOUND IN THE ANCIENT, FALSE RELIGIONS..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 116-118. "Clement of Rome had warned earlier in his second epistle of putting Christ in second place" 'Brethren, WE MUST THINK OF JESUS CHRIST AS OF GOD'." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 39-48. This theology of Clement is pure Monotheistic modalism- Oneness!

((Ignatius (ca. 107 AD)... "Let us all run together as to one temple of God, as to one altar, to one Jesus Christ, who came forth from one Father and remained with One and returned to the One." (Mag. 7:2).)) I'm afraid this theology of Ignatius is pure Oneness Modalistic Monarchianism theology also, not Trinitarian, Pilgrim! "If one term must be chosen to indicate the tendency of his thought, IGNATIUS MUST BE SAID TO BE MONARCHIAN..." -Virginia Corwin (A well-known scholar), St. Ignatius and Christianity in Antioch (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1960, page 140. "Ignatius seems to have had the confidence of the apostles, for he is said to have been appointed pastor of the church at Antioch by John in 67 AD, and he succeeded Evodius, who had been appointed by Peter in 40 AD" William B. Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, page 16-17.

((Polycarp (ca. 69 -155 AD) - "O Lord God Almighty, Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ...I glorify you through the eternal and heavenly High Priest, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom to you with Him and the Holy Spirit be glory both now and for ages to come. Amen." (The Martyrdom of Polycarp - 14:1-3))) And again, another One God preacher in the man Polycarp! "Polycarp of Smyrna (c. 69-156 AD) was another one God preacher, who overlapped what is called the Apostolic Age and the sub-Apostolic Age. He was John's disciple... It is said that the Apostle John designated Polycarp as the pastor of the church at Smyrna. Polycarp... was personally acquainted with Philip and his four daughters, who lived at Hierapolis... He was also acquainted with Ignatius, and no doubt knew many who had sat directly under the

teaching of the apostles, as he had himself... "Polycarp and Ignatius had respect for one another. We know this from their correspondence. Moreover they shared the same teaching. In a letter to Polycarp, we find that Ignatius acknowledges Jesus Christ as the only God. In one place he writes- '...and expect HIM, WHO IS ABOVE ALL TIME, ETERNAL, INVISIBLE, THOUGH FOR OUR SAKES MADE VISIBLE; IMPALPABLE, AND IMPASSABLE, YET FOR US SUBJECTED TO SUFFERINGS; enduring all manner of ways for our salvation.' -Polycarp 1:15... "TO IGNATIUS AND POLYCARP, ONLY ONE GOD HAS DONE THIS- ONLY ONE PERSON. THEY TAUGHT NO SUCH DOCTRINE AS A TRINITY OF THREE PERSONS. THAT IS NOT IN THEIR VOCABULARY, NOR DO THEY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY BELIEVED IN SUCH A TEACHING. Polycarp stated that Ignatius was an example of holiness and endurance, and urged the Philippians to follow his example... HISTORIANS CALL THIS ONE GOD TEACHING OF IGNATIUS AND POLYCARP 'Asiatic MODALISM.'... Modalism because these early disciples of the apostles taught, as the apostles did, that God is indeed only one being... Loofs and Kroyman, for example, were historians who were convinced that Ignatius was a Modalist or Oneness... "We must realize that THE MODALISTS (APOSTOLIC) WERE THE SUCCESSORS TO THE APOSTLES AND NOT THE TRINITARIANS. The Trinitarians expropriated the term 'catholic' (universal) from the writings of Ignatius. When they increased in power and in numbers, they branded the Modalists who preached one God as heretics, and styled their group as 'catholic.'... "We do not find great Trinitarian (Catholic) writers in church history until after the death of Ignatius. NONE OF THEM WERE EVER RECOGNIZED BY POLYCARP OR IGNATIUS. In the latter part of Polycarp's life, some of them began to write and to be recognized in their own Catholic assemblies. But THEY WERE NEVER RECOGNIZED BY ANY APOSTLE, BY POLYCARP, IGNATIUS, OR CLEMENT OF ROME... "Polycarp, and eleven Christians from Philadelphia, were put to death. Before being executed, the eighty-six-year-old Christian testified that HE WORSHIPPED CHRIST ALONE." William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 18-21.

((Ireneus (ca. 180 AD) - "Now man is a mixed organization of soul and flesh, who was formed after the likeness of God, and moulded by His hands, that is, by the Son and the Holy Spirit, to whom He also said, 'Let Us Make Man'" (Heres. IV. preface).)) And now, Pilgrim, we come to your brethren, the Trinitarians! "An early catholic father of note was Irenaeus (c. 135-200 AD)... Actually in his life we may think to observe A TRANSFORMATION FROM MODALISM TO TRINITARIANISM. He claims to have been, as a youth, a disciple of Polycarp. POLYCARP NOWHERE CONFIRMS THIS insofar as we know. NO

CONTEMPORARY SOURCE CONFIRMED IT. If it is true, IRENAEUS TAUGHT A TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE LATER IN LIFE that was different from the modalism (oneness) taught by Polycarp. Ireneus maintained that the only succession that counted was the succession of bishops and presbyters which went back to the apostles. Unfortunately, many churches in the Roman Empire's confines could trace their pastors back to the apostles perhaps, but what was their present spiritual condition and what doctrine did they teach? It is ironic that IRENAEUS HAD TO USE AN EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE ONENESS CHURCH IN ROME TO DEMONSTRATE HIS POINT IN APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION... Some of (Ireneaus') statements, to be sure, are not incompatible with an earlier oneness position he may have held, as in the following statements" '...The Father is that which is invisible about the Son, the Son is that which is visible about the Father.' Also, this very striking phrase" 'The Father is God revealing Himself, and the Son is god revealed.'... Ireneaus is undoubtedly indebted to Justin Martyr, and not Polycarp for... Trinitarian teachings..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 31-32. In case you (or anyone else) are interested, here is the Oneness succession of preachers in Rome that the above author is referring to- "Listed below are the ONENESS PASTORS of the church at Rome... Linus (42-67 A.S.), Anacletus (79-90 AD), Clement of Rome (90-99 AD), Evaristus (99-107 AD), Alexander (107-116 AD), Sixtus (116-125 AD), Telesphorus (125-136 AD), Hyginus (136-140 AD), Pius (140-154 AD), Anicetus (154-165 AD), Soter (166-174 AD), Eleutheras (174-189 AD), Victor (189-198 AD), Zephyrinus (198-217 AD), Callistus (217-222 AD)... Adolf Harnack accounted Eleutheras, Victor, Zephyrinus, and Callistus, all to be Modalists or oneness." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 46-55. QUESTION #210) It's kind of ironic, isn't it, that the Roman Catholic Church, the designers of the Trinity, must trace it's history through what historians deem to be THE most conservative Oneness church, to prove their succession from Peter? "Noetus (b. 130 AD)... Unlike Ireneaeus, who claimed Polycarp for his teacher, Noetus taught the Oneness of God as Polycarp had. LeBreton (The History of the Primitive Church, pg 600) has pointed out THAT THE DOCTRINE OF NOETUS IS VERY SIMILAR TO THAT OF IGNATIUS..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, page 39. Questions 211 through 217- The Christian Apologists- Compromisers. ((Justin Martyr (ca. 147 AD) - "We bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost." (1 Apol. 67)... "...we reasonably worship [Jesus Christ], having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third." (1 Apol. 13).)) ((Athenagoras (ca. 170) - "We affirm that God and His Word or Son and the Holy Spirit are one in power..." (Plea. 24)... "We believe in a God who made all things by His Word and holds them together by His Holy Spirit that comes from Him" (Plea. 6).)) A couple more Trinitarian / pagan philosophers for you! QUESTION #211) Can't you Trinitarians provide any early church "fathers" that believed

in the Trinity but WEREN'T ALSO PAGAN PHILOSOPHERS? No, of course you can't! Because that's where the doctrine of the Trinity came from! Not from the apostles, not from the Jewish faith, but FROM BABYLON BY WAY OF PAGAN PHILOSOPHERS! "JUSTIN MARTYR... A pagan reared in a Jewish environment, Justin became a Christian, possibly at Ephesus, near modern Selcuk, Tur., where he studied Stoic and Platonic philosophy. Soon after 135 he BEGAN PROPAGATING HIS NEW RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY at Rome... Justin's distinctive contribution to Christian theology is his conception of a divine plan... the Old Testament and Greek philosophy MET TO FORM the single stream of Christianity... Justin's imprecision of thought and terminology, regarding 'person,' 'nature,' and 'logos,' however, GENERATED THEOLOGICAL CONTROVERSIES THAT ENDURED FOR MORE THAN FOUR CENTURIES." The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1974, vol. V., pp 645-646. "ATHENAGORAS (fl. 2nd century), Greek Christian philosopher and Apologist whose treatise Presebia peri Christianon (c.177; Embassy for the Christian) is the first known work to use Neoplatonic concepts to interpret Christian belief and worship... Athenagoras ADDUCED THE FIRST RATIONAL APOLOGETIC FOR God's simultaneous unity and TRINITY by SUGGESTING MULTIPLE PERSONS in a single nature and potency." "HUMANISTIC SCHOLARSHIP, HISTORY OF... the genealogical tree of knowledge passed from Moses through the Egyptians... to the Greeks, whose works could therefore be considered divinely inspired. Such was the claim of the Christian scholar Justin Martyr (died c. 165), who ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE WORD OF GOD COULD HAVE INSPIRED THE GREAT PAGAN AUTHORS. About the turn of the following century, Clement of Alexandria, the founder of Christian philosophy, asserted that pagan wisdom to the Greeks was equivalent of the Old Testament..." . The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1974, vol. 8., pg. 1173. "CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHY... In patristic and medieval times, Christianity experienced a confrontation with Greek philosophy... Plato possessed a fragment torn from the eternal truth of the living Logos (Word). Justin Martyr was so impressed by the work of Plato that he ascribed his insights to an acquaintance with he teaching of Moses." The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1974, vol. 4, pg. 558. "PLATONISM AND NEOPLATONISM... The CHRISTIAN PLATONISTS gave primacy to revelation and REGARDED PLATONIC PHILOSOPHY AS THE BEST AVAILABLE INSTRUMENT for understanding and defending the teachings of Scripture and church tradition... THE FIRST CHRISTIAN TO USE GREEK PHILOSOPHY IN THE SERVICE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH WAS JUSTIN MARTYR, whose passionate rejection of Greek polytheism, combined with AN OPEN AND POSITIVE ACCEPTANCE OF THE ESSENTIALS OF PLATONIC RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY... was to remain characteristic of the Christian Platonic tradition. This was carried on in the Greek-speaking world by Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-c. 215), a persuasive Christian humanist, and by the greatest of the Alexandrian Christian teachers, Origen (c. 184-254)... The Greek philosophical theology that DEVELOPED during the Trinitarian controversies over the

relationships among the persons of the Godhead, which were settled at the ecumenical councils of Nicea (325) and Constantinople (381), owed a great deal to Origen... It's greatest representatives on the orthodox side were the three Christian Platonist theologians of Cappadocia, Basil of Caesarea (c. 330-379), Gregory of Nazianzus (c. 330-390), and Basil's brother Gregory of Nyssa (died 394). Of these Gregory of Nyssa was the most powerful and original thinker (and the closest to Origen). He was... at once VERY PLATONIC and profoundly Christian..." The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1974, vol. 14, pg. 558. "PATRISTIC LITERATURE... Justin's attitude to pagan philosophy was positive... Tatian's (Justin's pupil)... contemporary Athenagoras of Athens, ... is as FRIENDLY as Justin TO GREEK CULTURE AND PHILOSOPHY... They strove to vindicate the Christian understanding of God... In so doing, most of them EXPLOITED CURRENT PHILOSOPHICAL CONCEPTIONS, IN PARTICULAR THAT OF THE LOGOS (word), or rational principle underlying and permeating reality, which they regarded as the divine reason, become incarnate in Jesus. They have been accused of Hellenizing Christianity (making it Greek in form and method)..." The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1974, vol. 13, pg. 1080. QUESTION #212) What does the Bible say about mixing Christianity with pagan philosophy? Col 2:6 "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 BEWARE LEST ANY MAN SPOIL YOU THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND VAIN DECEIT, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: QUESTION #213) If philosophy is likened to VAIN DECEIT in scripture, WHY ARE TRINITARIANS SO PROUD AND CONFIDENT OF THEIR EARLY CHURCH FATHERS WHO WERE FORCED TO RESORT TO PLATO TO DEFINE CONCEPTS THEY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND, AND THAT WERE NEVER STATED IN SCRIPTURE??? 1 Ti 1:3 "As I besought thee... that thou mightest charge some that they TEACH NO OTHER DOCTRINE... 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 DESIRING TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW; UNDERSTANDING NEITHER WHAT THEY SAY, NOR WHEREOF THEY AFFIRM." QUESTION #214) Did not God specifically warn us in His word what would happen by mixing pagan philosophy with His commandments and concepts (words)? Rev 2:14 "But I have a few things against thee, because thou... eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication... 16 REPENT; OR ELSE I WILL come unto thee quickly, and will FIGHT AGAINST THEM WITH THE SWORD OF MY MOUTH... 18 ...These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass... 2:20 ...I HAVE A FEW THINGS AGAINST THEE, BECAUSE THOU...

TEACH AND... SEDUCE MY SERVANTS TO COMMIT FORNICATION, AND TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED UNTO IDOLS. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast... them that commit adultery... into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children (Protestants!) with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." Jdg 2:17 "And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but THEY WENT A WHORING AFTER OTHER GODS, and bowed themselves unto THEM: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so." Mar 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD... 14 YE SHALL NOT GO AFTER OTHER GODS, OF THE GODS OF THE PEOPLE WHICH ARE ROUND ABOUT YOU; 15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth." Deu 13:6 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, LET US GO AND SERVE OTHER GODS, WHICH THOU HAST NOT KNOWN, THOU, NOR THY FATHERS; 7 NAMELY, OF THE GODS OF THE PEOPLE WHICH ARE ROUND ABOUT YOU, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 THOU SHALT NOT CONSENT UNTO HIM, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, NEITHER SHALT THOU CONCEAL HIM" QUESTION #215) So where, dear Pilgrim, amidst all these stern warnings, where did our fathers the Hebrews, or our fathers the Apostles, or those who immediately followed the apostles, or even our Father Jesus Christ, EVER SPECIFICALLY SAY OR COMMAND US TO BELIEVE THAT THE GODHEAD IS A TRINITY OF PERSONS??? QUESTION #216) And why, oh why, dear Pilgrim, if God was so set AGAINST the gods of the pagans, why is it that the pagan gods of a trinity of persons is now to be so highly honored by such as yourself??? QUESTION #217) Can you possibly deny the extent of historical facts linking the doctrine of the trinity NOT to the early church of Jewish descent, but to it's pagan influences? "The Trinity doctrine... traces it's history to a rebellious extremist named Tertullian" -After The Way Called Heresy, by Thomas Weisser, Pg. 21 "And it is not improbable that the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, which formed no part of the original Jewish Christianity, may be traced to Egyptian influence; as the whole of the OLDER EGYPTIAN THEOLOGY WAS PERMEATED WITH THE IDEA OF TRIPLE DIVINITY, as seen by both in the triads of gods which the various cities worshipped, and in the threefold names, representing three differing aspects of the same

personality, under which each god might be addressed." -Joseph Crafton Milne, "A History of Egypt, pg 155. Vol. 5. as quoted in After The Way Called Heresy, by Thomas Weisser, pg 21. "The Cappodicians, theologians who reconciled the faith of Athanasius with the current philosophy, and apprehended it abstractly, did not retain his teaching pure and simple... They boldly characterized the plurality of Hypostases, e.g., AS A PHASE OF TRUTH PRESERVED IN GREEK POLYTHEISM" -Adolf von Harnack, "History of Dogma", pg 142-143. "It is a solution by HARMONIZATION, an attempt to combine, as Gregory of Nyssa characterizes it, the monotheism of the Jews AND THE POLYTHEISM OF THE GREEKS. The method of harmonization used by them was TO THIN DOWN THE JEWISH MONOTHEISM AS A CONCESSION to Greek polytheism." -Wolfson, Harry A. "The Philosophy of the Church Fathers", pg 578-579, as quoted in After The Way Called Heresy, by Thomas Weisser, page 32. "In the Trimurti, Brahma... The Lord God, though one without a second, assumes the three forms respectively of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva... though three in form, are one entity... It may, however be noted that, whereas THE TRINITY is presented in Scholastic philosophy as a mystery, IT IS A FUNDAMENTAL DEFINITION OF HINDU RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY!" -Edward Rice, Eastern Definitions, pg 387. as quoted in After The Way Called Heresy, by Thomas Weisser, Page 34. "The ancient BABYLONIANS, just as the modern Romans, RECOGNIZED IN WORDS the unity of the Godhead; and, while worshipping innumerable minor deities, as possessed of certain influence on human affairs, they distinctly acknowledged that there was One infinite and Almighty Creator, supreme over all... IN THE UNITY OF THAT ONE ONLY GOD OF THE BABYLONIANS, THERE WERE THREE PERSONS, and to symbolize that doctrine of the Trinity, they employed, as the discoveries of Layard prove, the equilateral triangle, just as it is well known the Romish Church does at this very day... The Papacy has in some of its churches, as, for instance, in the monastery of the so-called Trinitarians of Madrid, an image of the Triune God, with three heads on one body. the Babylonians had something of the same. Mr. Layard, in his last work, has given a specimen of such a triune divinity, worshipped in ancient Assyria... of such another divinity, worshipped among the Pagans of Siberia..." -Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pages 16-17. "The worship of the goddess-mother with the child in her arms continued to be observed in Egypt till Christianity entered... AT THE COUNCIL OF NICE... THE MELCHITE SECTION - THAT IS, THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE SO-CALLED CHRISTIANITY OF EGYPT - HELD THAT THERE WERE THREE PERSONS IN THE TRINITY - THE FATHER, THE VIRGIN MARY, AND MESSIAH THEIR SON... Thus, there was a wonder in Heaven; a throne was seen far above all created powers, mediatorial, intercessory... Such is Popery... bold and unblushing in its blasphemies; that in Lisbon, a church was to be seen with these words engraven on its front, 'To the virgin goddess of Loretto, the Italian race, devoted to her DIVINITY, have dedicated this temple.'... This, however, is just the exact reproduction of the doctrine of ancient Babylon in regard to the

great goddess-mother. The Madonna of Rome, then, is just the Madonna of Babylon. The 'Queen of Heaven' in the one system is the same as the 'Queen of Heaven' in the other. The goddess worshipped in Babylon and Egypt as the 'Tabernacle' or Habitation of God, is identical with her who, under the name of Mary, is called by Rome 'the House consecrated to God,' 'the awful Dwelling-place,' 'the Mansion of God,' 'the Tabernacle of the Holy Ghost,' 'Temple of the Trinity.'" -Rev. Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, pages 82-83. Question 218- Nicene Council- Christian? or Pagan Philosophy? QUESTION #218) Are you still proud to call the Nicene council a Christian council Pilgrim, and a forerunner to your own religion? "The definition of the Christian faith as contained in the creeds of the ecumenical synods of the early church indicate that UNBIBLICAL CATEGORIES OF NEOPLATONIC PHILOSOPHY WERE USED IN THE FORMULATION OF THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY, as well as in Christology and the doctrine of man..." --Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th edition, 1984, Vol. 4, page 476. "The Holy Trinity- the basis for the doctrine of the Trinity... The question as to how to reconcile the encounter with God in this threefold figure (The Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit) with faith in THE ONENESS OF GOD, WHICH WAS THE JEWS' AND CHRISTIANS' CHARACTERISTIC MARK OF DISTINCTION OVER AGAINST PAGANISM, agitated the piety of ancient Christendom in the deepest way... THIS QUESTION WAS ANSWERED IN THE NEOPLATONIC METAPHYSICS of being... In Neoplatonic philosophy both the nous and the idea of the world are designated the hypostases (essences, or natures) of the transcendent God. Christian theology took the Neoplatonic metaphysics of substance as well as its doctrine of hypostases as THE DEPARTURE POINT for interpreting the relationship of the 'Father' to the 'Son' in terms of the Neoplatonic hypostases doctrine... The Neoplatonic concept of substance... was foreign to the New Testament itself... The dispute on the basis of the metaphysics of substance... led to concepts that have no foundation in the New Testament." -Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th edition, 1984, Vol. 4, page 485. "TRINITY. The term 'Trinity' (Greek troas) was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (fl.c. 180 AD)... Judaism emerged...as the purest form of monotheism in the ancient world... "THE FULL DEVELOPMENT OF TRINITARIANISM TOOK PLACE IN THE WEST, IN THE SCHOLASTICISM OF THE MIDDLE AGES, WHEN AN EXPLANATION WAS UNDERTAKEN IN TERMS OF PHILOSOPHY AND PSYCHOLOGY, especially of the recovered Aristotlianism of the 13th century. The classical exposition is found in the works of St. Thomas Aquinas, whose views on this subject have dominated most of later Christian theology, BOTH ROMAN CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT." -Encyclopedia Americana, 1983 Question 219- Know them by their fruits- The Trinity. "A second verbal clash or confrontation took place in about 180 AD between Noetus and the presbyters in Smyrna... Noetus asked one final question, which has come down through the centuries of time unanswered, 'WHAT EVIL, THEN, AM I DOING IN GLORIFYING

CHRIST?' the presbyters could not answer that... "Noetus knew only one god, and taught that this one God was none other than Jesus Christ: '...There exists one and the same Being, called Father and Son, not one derived from the other, but himself from himself, nominally called Father and Son according to the changing of the times; and that this One is He that appeared to the patriarchs, and submitted to birth from a virgin, and conversed as man among men. On account of His birth that had taken place, He confessed Himself to be the Son to those who saw Him, while to those who could receive it, He did not hide the fact that He was the Father.' (Noetus)... "Hippolytus gives us many of the scriptures quoted by the Noetians of the period. 'Now they seek to exhibit the foundation for their dogma by citing the word in the law: Exodus 3:6, Exodus 20:3, Isaiah 44:6. Thus they say they prove that God is one. And they answer in this manner: 'If therefore I acknowledge Christ to be God, He is the Father Himself, if He is indeed God; and Christ suffered, being Himself God; and consequently the Father suffered, for He was the Father Himself.' (Hippolytus)... "Ignatius taught that He became passable (able to suffer) for our sakes (Polycarp 1:15). But the Platonic philosopher taught that God the Father remained forever impassable. THIS DICTATED THAT ONE COULD NEVER SUFFER, BUT SENT ANOTHER WHO DID. THE NOETIANS RIGHTLY SAID THAT THIS WAS DITHEISM... Noetus and his followers quoted such scriptures as John 2:19, John 10:30, john 14:9 and Romans 9:5. They also used Isaiah 45:14. Note the heavy reliance upon the gospel of John in this particular case. Contrary to Trinitarian historians, those against the (Trinitarian) doctrine, the Alogi or MONARCHIANS (as Noetus here), MADE GREAT USE OF JOHN TO REFUTE THE FALSE LOGOS TEACHING... "Larson unwittingly, perhaps, got to the root of the carnal minds rejection of Jesus Christ as truly being God, when he made this comment about the Trinitarian reaction to Noetus' teaching: 'THE HORROR AROUSED AMONG THE ORTHODOX BY THE THOUGHT THAT GOD THE FATHER HAD BEEN NAILED TO A TREE, APPROACHED HYSTERIA: AND THIS, WE BELIEVE, RESULTED FROM THE FACT THAT NO ONE EVER QUITE ACCEPTED THE DOCTRINE THAT JESUS WAS TRULY GOD. FOR WERE HE ACTUALLY SO, WHY WAS IT LESS HORRIBLE FOR HIM TO SUFFER CRUCIFIXION?'... "Noetus on the other hand, followed the apostles, and taught that Jesus Christ was truly God the Father manifested in the flesh: 'I am under necessity, since one God is acknowledged, to make this one the subject of suffering. For Christ was God, and suffered on account of us, being Himself the Father, that He might be able to save us.'... "Clement of Rome had warned earlier in his second epistle of putting Christ in second place" 'Brethren, we must think of Jesus Christ as of God.'... Hippolytus himself was a man... who also wrote on chronology, magic, and astrology, not to mention philosophy. But overall in the Roman church, the teaching of Noetus was highly popular at this time. Trinitarians still represented a minority faction... It was only at the beginning of the fourth century that the Trinitarians gained the upper hand by forming an

alliance with Caeser so that they might drive the Oneness Christians underground." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 39-48. "This (Trinity)- let loose a fury among mankind that has rarely been paralleled. MILLIONS SUFFERED VIOLENCE OR DEATH IN THE PURSUANT WARS AND PERSECUTIONS. Hundreds of bishops were exiled or murdered at the command of other bishops who, when the tide turned, visited the same treatment upon their rivals." The Story of Christian Origins, M.A. Larson, New Republic Book, p572. The killing did not stop at the council of Nicea, nor with the Roman Catholic Church. Through history, many Protestant Trinitarians continued the violence begun by their mother church. Martin Luther condemned Oneness groups with these words- "The Second Person in the Godhead... alone became true man... that neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit became true man, AS CERTAIN HERETICS HAVE TAUGHT" -Luther's Works 37, R. Fischer and H. Lehmann, eds., fortress Press, p.361. And what kind of fruits did Martin Luther display by which "Ye shall know them by their fruits"? Well, to Prince John Fredrick, after Luther's break with the Catholic Church, advising on how to handle revolting peasants, Martin Luther answered- "Smite, stab, slay and kill" -Christian Attitudes toward War and Peace, R.H. Bainton, Abingdon Press, p. 140. John Calvin (1509-1564) openly and unabashedly physically violently opposed Oneness proponents. A contemporary of Calvin's, a Oneness preacher by the name of Michael Servetus taught- "I do not separate Christ from God any more than a voice from the speaker or a ray from the sun... An amazing mystery it is that God can thus be conjoined with man and man with God. A great wonder that God has taken to himself the body of Christ that it should be his peculiar dwelling place..." -Quoted in Hunted Heretic, R. Bainton, Beacon Press, p. 49. "Calvin became so angry over the writings of Michael Servetus (1511-1556 AD), who taught against the Trinity, and taught One God, that HE HAD SERVETUS BURNED AT THE STAKE in Geneva... Although Calvin must bear the primary guilt of the murder of Servetus, many other Catholics and Protestants were in favor of it." -Ancient Champions of Oneness, W.B. Chalfant, Word Aflame Press, p. 153. "The false and wicked doctrine of the troublesome Spaniard (Servetus) goes far to do away with the whole of Christian religion... Therefore do everything possible that such dreadful blasphemy get no further wind to the detriment of Christianity" -Ulrich Zwingli, quoted in Ancient Champions of Oneness, W.B. Chalfant, Word Aflame Press, p. 153. If you wish to continue clinging to your bloody Roman Catholic / Protestant roots- KNOW that Jesus said- "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" -Revelation 18:4. THE HISTORY OF THE TRINITY DOCTRINE IS AS BLOODY A HISTORY AS MAN HAS EVER SEEN! THE CHURCH OF CHRIST (THE TRUE AND THE FALSE) HAS KNOWN NO PEACE SINCE IT'S INCEPTION. QUESTION #219) Is this the history of Christ's church, that since the formulation of the

Nicene Creed proclaiming a Separation of Persons in the Godhead, such bloodshed, war and persecutions should plague Christ's church? Can that truly be Christ's church? Questions 220 through 221- Know them by their fruits- Oneness. "Do not think, however, that Oneness Christians used force or physical violence AT ANY TIME" -Ancient Champions of Oneness, W.B. Chalfant, Word Aflame Press, p. 138. QUESTION #220) WHAT OTHER CHRISTIAN SECT CAN MAKE THIS CLAIM, WHO HAVE NOT VIOLATED THEMSELVES THROUGH PHYSICAL FORCE OR VIOLENCE WHATSOEVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF JESUS CHRIST'S CHURCH ON EARTH, who can also trace their progenitors right back to the apostles themselves? QUESTION #221) WHERE IS FOUND ANY HISTORICALLY ACCURATE EVIDENCE AGAINST ANY PROPONENT AND FOLLOWER THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THE "ONENESS OF GOD IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST" THAT THEY SO PERSECUTED TRINITARIANS IN RETURN? Gal 4:29 "But as then HE THAT WAS BORN AFTER THE FLESH PERSECUTED HIM THAT WAS BORN AFTER THE SPIRIT, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." Question 222 through 224- The Trinity and Mystery Babylon. ((Lastly, TomR... don't jump all over Trinitarians for saying that to fully know God and understand the Trinity is a mystery. we can acknowledge what God has revealed to us in Scripture (One God who reveals Himself as three distinct persons), but we can't fully "know" God - as we are finite and He is infinite.)) OK I won't, I'll let the scriptures speak for themselves... 1Jo 5:20 "And we know that THE SON OF GOD IS COME, AND HATH GIVEN US AN UNDERSTANDING, THAT WE MAY KNOW HIM THAT IS TRUE, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen." Joh 16:13 "Howbeit WHEN HE, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, IS COME, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." Rom 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, BEING UNDERSTOOD by the things that are made, *EVEN HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD*; so that they are without excuse" 1Co 2:7 "...we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery... 8 WHICH NONE OF THE

PRINCES OF THIS WORLD KNEW: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory... 10 BUT GOD HATH REVEALED THEM UNTO US BY HIS SPIRIT: FOR THE SPIRIT SEARCHETH ALL THINGS, YEA, THE DEEP THINGS OF GOD. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now WE have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; THAT WE MIGHT KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE FREELY GIVEN TO US OF GOD. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." QUESTION #222) If the natural man receives not the things of God, how come so many, worldly, heathen, pagan religions, so-called "Christian" and otherwise, have a Trinity doctrine at the core of their beliefs? And who is it that has the mystery religion- the true or the false church? Jud 1:10 "BUT THESE SPEAK EVIL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH THEY KNOW NOT: BUT WHAT THEY KNOW NATURALLY, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Rev 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." QUESTION #223) If the natural man receives not the things of God, and there are to be, according to prophecy, many who claim to be Christians who are not Christians, should we be surprised that these false Christians should adopt a description of God that imitates ancient Babylon, rather than the pure scriptures? Mat 16:15 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Mat 13:13 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them." QUESTION #224) And which road is more heavily populated- the wide road, or the narrow? Rom 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid... 2 God hath not cast

away his people which he foreknew... 5 Even so then at this present time also THERE IS A REMNANT according to the election of grace." Mat 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Question 225- Summary. ((Can't you see this God of Love?.. "In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that He sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him..." (1 John 4:9-10, 14-16). In your theology there is no Father who shared loving communion with the Son... because in actuality, for you, the Father didn't in love send His Son to die for the sin of man. TomR, which God do you choose?)) "The great Greek philosopher, Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), had taught that: 'the Deity stands in lonely self-contemplation outside the world... his intellect (nous) is the only thing through which He stands in immediate contact with it.' And Plato (428-328 B.C.) of Athens had taught that gods by definition 'are exalted above pleasure and pain, and are untouched of evils.' THUS THE TRINITARIANS MADE A FATHER WHO WAS IMPASSABLE (i.e. incapable of suffering or feeling pain), the first person, and then a second person (whom they styled the Logos, 'Mind' or nous), who was passable (capable of suffering and feeling pain). The apostles never taught such a doctrine. And even later in Ignatius we read of one God, who was '...impassable, yet for us subjected to sufferings... What the Trinitarians were saying was that a different one had been incarnated or had come in the flesh. THEY DID NOT BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST TO BE ALMIGHTY GOD." )..." -William Chalfant, Ancient Champions of Oneness, pages 122-123. You are very correct in your summation that I believe in a different God than you in this. Here is what I believeJoh 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 GREATER LOVE HATH NO MAN THAN THIS, THAT A MAN LAY DOWN HIS LIFE FOR HIS FRIENDS." I DO NOT BELIEVE IN, NOR WORSHIP A GOD WHO WOULD SEND ANOTHER PERSON TO DO WHAT HE COULD NOT, OR WOULD NOT DO. I do not believe in, nor worship a God who would send a separate person to suffer and die, while He Himself remained in heaven, untouched, and unaffected whose suffering could only, merely be in the stress of sending someone else, which would be a mockery! You may call it love if you wish, to send another person to die, but I call it disgusting, dishonorable, and cowardice! And in this I believe Jesus agrees with me, not you! I BELIEVE- "To wit, that GOD WAS IN CHRIST, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF..." 2 Co 5:19. AND I SUGGEST THAT YOU BELIEVE THE SAME! I BELIEVE THAT- "Christ also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF for it;... 27 THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT IT TO HIMSELF..." Eph 5:25-27. . AND I SUGGEST

THAT YOU BELIEVE THE SAME!

I DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus is the Second Person of any supposed Trinity BECAUSE THE BIBLE, GOD'S WORD, NEVER TELLS OR COMMANDS ME TO BELIEVE SUCH! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN A TRINITY of persons in the godhead because it cannot be stated in scripture, is not defined by scripture, it's terminology is lacking in scripture, it cannot even be expressed by combining any combinations of scriptures! It relies solely on the private interpretations of man to define it, which is forbidden by scripture. It required the philosophies of man to formulate it, which is condemned by scripture. It takes no spiritual revelation to accept it, it being readily, outwardly apparent by all manner of ungodly people, including avowed atheists and agnostics! It required pagan heathens to enforce it. It requires compromising and nullifying the very first commandment of Jesus to support it. It requires supporting pagan descriptions of divinity to express it. It puts the name of Jesus Christ in second place to the name of Trinity, rather than lifting up the name of Jesus to the place of the one name above all names. It denies that the Holy Ghost in the saints is Jesus Christ, making men reprobate concerning the faith according to scripture. It must make one deny that Jesus is the one and only I AM, thereby causing men to lose their salvation according to scripture. It has caused the bloodiest run of persecutions and murders in the name of God against man that this world has ever witnessed, since it's inception at the Council of Nicea onward! QUESTION #225) How much more undesirable would a doctrine have to be before you would be forced to reject it? Jer 2:11 "Hath a nation changed their gods, WHICH ARE YET NO GODS? BUT MY PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED THEIR GLORY FOR THAT WHICH DOTH NOT PROFIT. 12 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and *BE HORRIBLY AFRAID*, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. 13 FOR MY PEOPLE HAVE COMMITTED TWO EVILS; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." Question 226- Conclusion I BELIEVE THAT- "The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29), and that "Christ is all." (Col. 3:11), "And ye are complete in him" (Col 2:10). AND I SUGGEST THAT YOU BELIEVE THE SAME! I BELIEVE IN- "...the name of Jesus Christ... 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Act 4:10-12. AND I SUGGEST THAT YOU BELIEVE THE SAME! I BELIEVE- "...concerning spiritual(ities)... that... 4 there are diversities of gifts, but THE SAME Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but THE SAME Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is THE SAME God which worketh all in all... for... 11 ...all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit... :12 FOR as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: SO

ALSO IS CHRIST." AND I SUGGEST THAT YOU BELIEVE THE SAME! I BELIEVE THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRISTRev 1:8 "I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty... 17... Fear not; I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST: 18 I AM HE THAT LIVETH, AND WAS DEAD..." Rev 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Rev 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, THE FIRST AND THE LAST... 16 *I JESUS... I AM* THE ROOT (FATHER) AND THE OFFSPRING (SON)..." AND I SUGGEST THAT YOU BELIEVE THE SAME! I BELIEVE AND KEEP THE FIRST COMMANDMENTMar 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, THE FIRST OF ALL THE COMMANDMENTS IS, Hear, O Israel; The Lord OUR GOD IS ONE Lord" 1 Jo 2:4 "HE THAT SAITH, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him" 1 Jo 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS." God said it, I believe it, and that settles it! QUESTION #226) "WHAT EVIL, THEN, AM I DOING IN GLORIFYING CHRIST?" (Noetus, 180 AD.) Thank you for finishing the 226 questions. God bless you in the name above all names, the only saving name of the Lord Jesus Christ!