IN THE DISTRICT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND

------------------------------x

BRETT KIMBERLIN, Plaintiff,

v,

Case No. 0601SP019792012

AARON JUSTIN WALKER, Defendant, ------------------------------x

HEARING

Rockville, Maryland

May 29, 2012

DEPOSITION SERVICES, INC., 12321 Middlebrook Road, Suite 210 Germantown, Maryland 20874 (301) 881-3344

) ""') i~]

IN THE DISTRICT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND

------------------------------x
BRETT KIMBERLIN, Plaintiff,

v.
AARON JUSTIN WALKER, Defendant.

Case No. 0601SP019792012

------------------------------x

Rockville, Maryland May 29, 2012

WHEREUPON, the proceedings in the above-entitled matter commenced BEFORE: THE HONORABLE CORNELIUS J. VAUGHEY, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: FOR THE PETITIONER: BRETT KIMBERLIN, Pro Se

I
Bethesda, Maryland FOR THE RESPONDENT:

I
20817

AARON JUSTIN WALKER, Esq., Pro Se (No address provided.)

DEPOSITION SERVICES, INC.

I N D E X

WITNESSES For the Petitioner: Br'ett Kimberlin For the Respondent: Aaron Justin Walker

DIRECT

CROSS

REDIRECT

RECROSS

21

40

kc 1 2 3
4

PRO C E E DIN G 8 THE COURT: Case No 01979, and it's Br'ett Kimberlin

versus Aaron Justin Walker. MR. WALKER: Your' Honor, before we begin, I have a

5 6
7
8

disposi tive motion I'd like to present, a motion to dismiss, and it's a memorandum of law and the facts-THE COURT: MR . WALKER: MR. KIMBERLIN: THE COURT: Certainly . so far in this case. I object . It's a motion to dismiss. That comes first.

9 10 11
12
13

I'll take it.

I've got to listen to, hear what he says. Go ahead, s i r MR. WALKER: very long. Don't worry..

The main motion is not I only

14
15 16 17
18

It's just the exhibits are pr'etty heavy .

sign this for your benefit, Your Honor.. This is the actual motion to dismiss. including some on disk, even includes

I have signed it . These are the exhibits,

(unintelligible)

alleged

I've made video threats, and therefore,

I had to provide the

19 20
21

videos to show that they were not threats . THE COURT: MR. WALKER:
80 what's your motion?

The motion is to dismiss this case.

Mr..

22 23 24

Kimberlin has, he has petitioned for a peace order, contains numerous flaws in it.. claim -THE COURT: That's a fact I don't want to hear The one thing he continually tries to

25

kc 1 2 3 4
5

that MR WALKER: No, if you look, it's on, it I s clear' on

the face of it that it is, that he is making assertions that it is harassment to speak badly about him on the Internet, (Unintelligible) that is har'assment, In Galloway v. State,

6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13

they made it absolutely clear that pure expression, unless it is a threat, unless it is somehow directed contact, such as an

e-mail.aletter.oraphonecall.anyofthosethings.itis just pure expression, THE COURT: until I hear from him? MR face, WALKER: Well, I think it's pretty obvious on the it's not harassment" How do I know it's not pure expression

If we have to go through a trial, we can, but I believe

14 15
16
17

it is obvious on the face, THE COURT: We'll proceed to trial MR" WALKER: Okay" All right, sir, Thank you, Your Honor, I' m going to deny your mot.ion, counsel,

18 19
20

THE COURT: MR"

KIMBERLIN:

THE COURT:

All those who are going to testify, raise Other right hand There you go,

21 22 23 24 25

your right hands, please,

BRETT KIMBERLIN the petitioner, having been fir'St duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION

kc 1 2
3

A
Q

He's the man that's been stalking me for' a long time, Where does he live? In Manassas, Virginia. His name is -- okay" What's your, how do you know

A
Q

4 5
6

him?
A

He started to attacking me on the Internet, and he

7 8
9

showed up in a court case that I had in front of the Circuit Court, and -Q

You mean, you never met this guy before in your

10
11

life A
Q

Never"

12
13

- - and then
Never,
- -

- -

A
Q

14 15 16
17

all of a sudden

- -

A
Q

Never " - - this started happening? Yes, Okay, So you never met., and then you met him when? He

A
Q

18 19 20 21 22
23

He, I met him for the first time on January 9th,

showed up in - Q
A

What year? This year" Okay, And he showed up where? Judge Rupp,

Q
A

24 25

He showed up in Judge Rupp's courtroom

he interrupted the court proceedings --

kc 1 2 3 4 5 6
7

MR.. WALKER: THE WITNESS: BY THE COURT:

Q

Your Honor -(unintelligible)

What kind of a hearing was this? It was a contempt hearing on a -MR . WALKER: Your Honor, we could get this along a

lot faster if we confined his testimony, this discussion of what supposed harassment I've committed to the last 30 days before he filed his petition. THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: Okay.. -- so -- overrule you now, because I'm just He filed this on May 19th -Yes, but I'm going to --

8 9 10
11

12
13

trying to get some background MR. WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: BY THE COURT:
Q

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Yes . - - so I understand what's going on here . All right, Your Honor Okay So he was --

It was a contempt? Yeah, but -You were being, you were the defendant? No, I was the plaintiff in the case, and All right.. So contempt -- just a second .

Q
A
Q

Initially, I had tried to determine his identity

kc 1
2
3 4
5

because he -Q

And it was, who were you trying to hold in contempt? There was a man! this man's a lawyer - I won't hold that against him. I know. Okay. Go ahead .

A
Q

A
Q

7
8 9

And he was advising, without filing an appearance, a

man that I was, had been stalking me, and the Judge Jordan had issued a judgment against this man for -Q

10

So he was a - - all right, I got you.. All right.. So Okay .

Just one

11
12
13

second..
A
Q

Now, tell me what's happened in the last 30 days. Okay. Well, I just want to get to one little part of He followed me out of the courtroom

14

15 16
17

that January 9th hearing..

and he assaulted me right there -MR. WALKER: THE COURT: that. THE WITNESS: BY THE COURT:
Q
A

Objection. That's not relevant . I'll just. strike

18

19
20 21

I understand

I understand.

22
23 24

I want to know what happened in the last 30 days . The only thing, it's relevant is because No, wait a second. I just said in the last 30 days .

25

Don't --

kc 1 2 3
4

10 A
Q

Yes .

In the last 30 days

- -

Don't change what I ask you, sir. In the last 30 days Okay Go ahead, give me the last 30 days .

A
Q

5
6
7

A
Q

In the last Give me the date In the last 30 days, after April 28th or 27th - April 28th, what happened?
- -

A
Q

8 9 10
11

he wrote a blog post that said that I framed him

for this alleged assault.

Q

Framed? That I framed him for this assault, and that I -Framed for, and --- forged the documents from Suburban Hospital, and

12
13

Q
A

14

15
16

that I photo- shopped the pictures of my black eye, and I -Q

Wait, wait, wait

Let me see

You have a copy of

17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24

that there?
A

Absolutely..

Do you want the Suburban Hospital

records? MR . WALKER: Okay, Your Honor.. That is records that

comes from before 30 days.. assault, and BY THE COURT:

Q

He's trying to prove the supposed

Oh, this is, now, wait a second, this is Well, I'm just saying, he said that I framed him for

25

kc 1 an assault.. The assaul t judge -Your Honor,

11

2
3
4

MR . WALKER: (unintelligible) THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: MR . WALKER: THE WITNESS:

Yes

I would like to object

Hang on, sport . Yes, sir. Sit down . Okay . Yes, sir.

5
6
7
8 9

We had a case in front of Judge Eric Judge Johnson said, That occurred.. "An assault

10 11 12

Johnson in the Circuit Court.. did occur. you . " Judge BY THE COURT:
Q

He assaulted you..

He assaulted

13
14

Okay .

I tell you what we do..

You just tell me what

15

happened.. A
Q

Let's see what he raises . Okay . And I ' l l come back to you . Okay . Otherwise, you'll bring in the moon -Okay . -- and you'll bring in the Right . Okay. I'm just -You see? And I don't

16 17 18
19 20

A
Q

A
Q

21

22
23
24

A
Q

-- the Battle of Thessalonica.

want that .
A

25

All right .

kc
1
Q

12 I just want, and let him bring it in, and then we'll

2
3
4
5

narrow the issues down.

A
Q

Okay. Because you guys seem like you're going throw kumquat
And I

on the wall, and I'm going to have to divide it out

6 7
8

don't, I'm too old, I'm going on my 34th year on the bench, so I can handle this .
A
Q

Okay . Okay? So just give me the facts, and I'll cut right

10 11 12
13

through it .
A

All right..

So he said that I framed him

Frame job, okay . I framed -On an assault charge? On an assaul t charge.. And he went on the Internet,

14 15 16 17
18

Q
A

and he started Tweeting thousands, over 14,000 Tweets had been made on Twitter, saying that I framed him for this -Q

How do you know that? I have them . I have them .

19

A
Q

20 21 22 23 24 25 on in

14,000 contacts he made with this? 14,000 MR.. WALKER: THE WITNESS: Your Honor, no -14,000, I mean, they go on and on and

BY THE COURT:

kc
1
2

13

Q
A

Is it the same message? These are saying that he framed me, and he wants

3
4

to
Q
A

No, I don't, I can't follow you, okay? He framed -I'm back in the Royal typewriter age, okay? Okay . I'm sorry.

5
6

Q
A

7 8
9

Q
A

So just come on slowly. Okay . He got on the thing and he did a little Twit there to

10 11 12
13

14,000 different people?

A
Q

No.

He Tweeted 14,000 times! or

- -

Oh, okay, that's a whole - Or had It's a whole different Or had others Tweet 14,000 times/ saying that I

14 15, 16
17

A
Q

A framed him
Q

18 19 20' 21 22 23 24 25

Now, wai t a minute, wait a minute, wai t .

So the

14,000

A
Q

At least. Tweets? Yes . All right.. Okay.. Now Now --

A
Q

A
Q

And how many did he do?

kc 1 2
3

14 A And, oh, thousands, thousands, definitely thousands. MR.. WALKER: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Mr.. Walker himself. BY THE COURT:
Q

Your Honor', not wi thin the last 30 days . Hang on. I'll--

4 5 6 7
8 9

I'd say, this is 54 pages of Tweets by

And that's all I care about . Okay. These are all --

A
Q

Because you're going, you're saying somebody else did

10
11

it also A
Q

No, this is all -then you're going to -within the last have to prove a relationship there.. This is all within the last 30 days. There's how many -This is last, this is last week on a single day . Okay? That, and most of What --

12
13

A
Q

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A
Q

This is M:r. Walker's Twit.ter account. them are

Q

How do you get this? How do I get it? I'm the director of several non-

pr'ofits in the area

We work with, on Human Rights issues and And so it's part of my job

government accountability issues.. to wor'k on the Internet. networking job

I mean, it's basically a social

And so I get Google alerts all the time

kc 1 2
3

15 mentioning my organizations, my name, what work we do. these Google alerts come -Q

And

And you can just go ahead into what he does? Excuse me? You can go into his private -No, this is Twitter, this is public . Oh, it's public stuff? Yes.. Okay.. He's So okay He's Tweeting this about me . So he did 54 pages, and how many on a page roughly? Well, this is 54 pages of his, and then this was just This is all public . All right .

4 5 6
7

A
Q

A
Q

8 9 10 11 12
13

A
Q

A
Q

A
Q

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

A a -Q

No, I just want to know how many on a page? Oh, it's probably 10 . Six or eight? Probably at least 10. 10, so okay, all right, that's 500 and MR . WALKER:
- -

A
Q

A
Q

I would like to inspect that document,

Your Honor. THE COURT: Sure, okay, I'll give you a minute, sir

24 25
Q

BY THE COURT: All right. So it's 54, 540 Tweets?

kc
1 A
Q

16

Yes.. Okay. Yeah..

And here' s his post Different Tweets? Here' s his post . "Brett Kimberlin tried to And he wrote this

2
3

4 5 6
7
8 9

frame me for a crime and how you can help."

3 0 -page document that he put on his blog, saying I framed him for an assault.
Q

People honestly read this stuff? I guess so.. MR . WALKER: THE WITNESS: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: And I'm going to object at this point -And--- if I can. Hold on, hold on.. You could have this

10
11

12
13

thing going for three days . minutes . BY THE COURT:

Q

I intend to be finished here in 10

14 15
16

Come on. Yeah.. So

Now, people read this stuff,

54 pages?

17
18 19

Don't they have jobs? So, I know, really.

A
Q

20
21

What the heck's going on out there in this world? So not, so on last week, he got all these bloggers

22 23 24 25

allover the country to create "Let's blog about Brett Kimberlin day," over 350 blogs blogged that I framed him.. And

that led to a number of, probably scores of death threats to me. They threatened my daughter, who's a preteen; my mother,

kc
1 2 3 4 5
6

17

they had called on the phone and threatened SWAT teams . MR. WALKER: Your Honor, I would 1 ike to obj ect here

He is characterizing the statements of third parties who -THE COURT: MR WALKER: You got any clients? At the moment, sir, I have been

unemployed because of THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: crazy . THE WITNESS: into the record, please? BY THE COURT:
Q

7 8 9 10 11 12
13

Yes, I'm going to say that --- Mr.. Kimberlin's conduct . -- reading something like -And can I --- that's going to sound like that's

Can I read some of the death threats

14

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q

And if they come from him? Yeah, well, the first one says MR . WALKER: THE WITNESS: BY THE COURT: One from who? "Message from Aaron" MR WALKER: Message from Aaron? Yes, "Message from Aaron . " No . - - "Message from Aaron. "

THE WITNESS: MR . WALKER:

Well, how do you know that is Aaron

kc 1 2 3 4 5
6
7

18 Walker'? THE COURT: THE WITNESS: BY THE COURT:

Q

Now, wait, wait one second . Okay.. And then --

Hang on, hang on, hang on

How do you know it's him?

A e-mail .

I'm just, I got this as a death threat, yeah, on my

8 9 10
11

MR.. WALKER: THE WITNESS: BY THE COURT:

Q

How do you know it's Aaron Walker? On my e-mail .

Okay.

Wait.

You see, with this electronic stuff, it

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

could have been anybody

A

Well, right it could have been my grandchild. It could have been, except out of these thousands and

thousands of Tweets, he's telling people to attack my funders

Q

Attack your what? My funders, foundations MR WALKER: And, Your Honoy/ I would object Okay . Wait
- -

THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER:

to that characterization. No, hang on a second . I would like him to show where I told

anyone to attack his funders.

kc
1

19

THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR. WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER:

Hey, sport. Okay . It's right here .

2
3

Sport, where'd you go to law school? Yale Law School . What'd they tell you about the judge? Well, not to upset him if that's what

4
5

7
8

you're trying to get at . THE COURT: And no, I'm not saying, I said, you don't

9
10
11

interrupt when I'm running something. MR . WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: My apologies, sir. So just have yourself a seat, sir . All right, sir. Because if you keep it up, I got a spot

12
13

14
15

for you in the courthouse . MR WALKER: All right . "Don't show up in court Tuesday or "This is your only

16
17

THE WITNESS: you're dead . " warning" MR WALKER:

This is Tuesday, obviously.

18
19 20

Well, who wrote that? No, wait a, hang on, you, calm down, son. Well, but WelL hang on. Yes. Just hang on. Grab a pencil or so there,

THE COURT: MR WALKER:

21
22
23

THE COURT: MR WALKER:

24
25

THE COURT:

see, and squeeze it for a while .

It'll make you feel better'.

kc 1 2 3
4

20 Just relax. We'll get this thing through.. And if you got to

talk, squeeze the pen. pretty soon. THE WITNESS:

My father will have to sit next to you

Judge, you know, on the temporary peace

5
6

order, the judge specifically ordered, no electronic contact . BY THE COURT:

Q
A

I've read the file Okay.. No threats . "We know who you are, we' r'e He had said many times on

9 10
11

coming for you, and you will pay" his blogs,

"Make Brett Kimberlin pay for framing me . " MR.. WALKER: THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I obj ect again. "Brett Kimberlin is done.. The hunter

12
13

is hunted

If Brett Kimberlin does not act like a grownup and

14 15 16
17

quit calling the police" - - I had to call the police last night, on a 911 call because I had some nut - BY THE COURT:
Q

Okay .
- -

18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A
Q

out in front of my house .

Anything further? Huh? Anything further? Yes . I'm reading these

-

A
Q

A
Q

That's enough .

I' ve heard enough .

You've got the picture? THE COURT: You can ask him some questions. Go

kc
1

21

ahead . MR WALKER: All right, Your' Honor CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR.. WALKER:

Q

2
3
4
5

Okay..

Mr., Kimberlin, are you an honest person? I'll sustain that objection,

6
7

THE COURT:

BY MR, WALKER:
Q

8
9

Have you ever been THE COURT: Next question,

10
11
Q

BY MR" WALKER: convicted of perjury, sir? THE COURT: proof? MR" WALKER: Honor THE COURT: MR WALKER: He's convicted of it? Convicted, Perjury? Convicted of perjury Convicted of perjury? Absolutely, sir Go ahead and ask it Judge, I was convicted when I was 18 or I can show you the court cases, Your' I'll sustain that" Go ahead., You got

12

13
14

15
16 17

18 19
20

THE COURT: MR, WALKER: THE COURT: MR" WALKER: THE COURT: THE WITNESS:

21 22
23

24
25

19 years old in a grand jury in -THE COURT: Grand juries don't convict,

kc
1

22
THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: convict, THE WITNESS: uh-huh, THE COURT: Okay . Yeah, but it was 40 years ago roughly, -- so it was like 34 Petit juries convict . -- 40 years ago, something like that. Grand juries charge, petit juries

2
3 4
5

6 7 8 9

BY MR. WALKER:
Q
A

10
11

Wasn't it more like 34 years ago? No, it was, THE COURT: BY MR it was when I was 18 or 19 years old . Okay All right"

12
13

WALKER:

14 15
16

Q
A

Well, how old are you, sir? I'm 57, Okay., So 57 minus 18 is more like -- let's see Let me ask you another

17 18 19
20 21

here -- it is roughly 40, yes" question"

Have you ever been convicted of set.t.ing a series of Indiana? I,

bombs in Speedway,
A

Judge, has that happened in the last 30 days?

let's get to the last 30 days. THE COURT: BY MR"

Q

22
23
24

No.,

WALKER: this is not -He's attacking your credibility so I have

No, no,

25

THE COURT:

kc
1 2

23 to allow this. THE WITNESS: uh-huh. BY MR.. WALKER:

Q

I, of cour se he is, okay..

Yes,

I was,

3
4

5
6
7 8

And you were known as the Speedway Bomber, were you

not?
A
Q

I don't know that . You don't know if you were known -No . -- as the Speedway Bomber? You did not know that

10
11

you, you've never read this before in your life?

A
Q

12
13

I've read a lot of things in my life. Well, if you had a case called Kimberlin v. White,

14

did you ever read that case?

A
Q

15
16

No . You did not read Kimberlin v. White? This is a

17 18 19
20

decision involving your self, and you're claiming you did not read this case?
A
Q

No, never read it . So you were actually, this is you on the docket -MR . WALKER: And, Your Honor, I'd like to show you

21 22 23 24 25 this case

THE WITNESS: MR . WALKER: Speedway Bomber .

Judge, that's from --- where it describes him as the

kc
1 2

24 THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR.. WALKER: THE COURT: MR. WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER: to -THE COURT: from. Okay.. Let me just take a look, see where it's That's literally from 30 years ago . But it goes to credibility, sir. Okay . I have to allow that. I think, can I approach or -(Unintelligible) All right Well, I'm honestly unsure

3
4

5
6

7
8 9

let me just take a look I didn't want

- - of the procedure, sir .

10
11

12 13 14 15
16
17

And all this occurred at how old, sir? Excuse me? How old were you when this occurred? 20-something. Go ahead, sir . And I did my time, and I got out, and

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS:

18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

I'm no longer subject to any of the conditions of that case. It's been resolved. BY MR. WALKER:
Q

When were you released? More than a decade ago. THE COURT: Okay. And that was in Texas? Texas?

Indiana? MR . WALKER: Indiana.

kc 1 2
3

25 THE WITNESS: Your Honor. THE COURT: final, sir? MR . WALKER: Well, I have a lot more, Your Honor . All right Okay.. Go ahead.. Anything Well, it was, it was a federal case,

4
5
6

BY MR.. WALKER:
Q

Now,

in addition, an order recently in 34 years ago, isn't that the case?

8
9

sir, you had your parole revoked,

A

Again, Okay..

that was, And well

that was more than a decade ago . (unintelligible) was that you had a

10 11 12
13

judgment against you involving the death, the suicide death of Carl DeLong,
A

is that correct? that judgment has been thrown out . It's

Judge,

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23

not
Q

I'm asking for a

lI

yes " or:

II

no II question"

It's not about the judgment -THE COURT: THE WITNESS: It was reversed? It's been nullified . I don't know what

the word is in Indiana, but it's been nullified BY MR. WALKER:

Q

But it wasn't nullified THE COURT: Well, I don't know what that --

BY MR.. WALKER:
Q

24 25

in 1998, when the Parole Commission revoked your is that correct?

parole,

kc 1 2
3
4
5

26
A

The judge in that case solicited a bribe from my

attorney, and he was indicted

Q

In the parole case. THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Okay, He was indicted and sent to jail for 18

6
7
8

years, and -THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: case That case -THE COURT: THE WITNESS: But what did that do in your case? Well, that case has been resolved, and Well, that's very good Yeah., I think that's wonderful" So that, that's what happened in that

10

11
12
13

14
15 16 17

that case is no longer, I have a THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: conviction? THE WITNESS: "satisfied" It was considered, quote, considered Resolved, I have How did it terminate? With a reversal of How

18
19

20
21

I guess that's what they call it, I've never heard of that in a criminal

THE COURT: case-THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS:

22
23
24

I know -- but imagine (unintelligible) It's not a criminal case, it's a civil

25

kc
1

27 case . THE COURT: THE WITNESS: the, where I was found MR . WALKER: THE WITNESS: Your Honor, if I can help maybe -Like I said, the judge solicited a A Parole Board thing? No, no, no, that was a civil case where

2
3

4
5
6

7 8
9

bribe, he went to jail 18 years, extortion, bribery, all a fact hearing . THE COURT: though. THE WITNESS: case . THE COURT: underlying facts
- -

It's got nothing to do with the case

10
11

No, it had, but (unintelligible) in my

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

That doesn't mean that the facts, the

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: bribe . THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT:
- -

No, but the facts - of the case (unintell igible) But the facts - - it just means the judge solicited a

No. Dirty judge . A dirty judge . Strike (unintelligible) No, but I'm just saying But it doesn't change the facts of your

kc
1

28

case . THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: The facts -How was that case resolved? The facts of that case are that it,

2
3
4

5 6
7

that judgment was not valid, it's not valid at this time, it's not enforceable, it's gone. THE COURT: ahead . MR.. WALKER: Okay Okay Ask him some more questions. Go

8 9
10
11

BY MR.. WALKER:
Q

And by 1998, the judgment was valid and enforceable,

12
13

wasn't it?
A

I don't know . You don't know whether it was valid and enforceable? I was st ill litigating it at that time . Okay.. Well, the fact is that the Parole Commission

14 15 16

Q
A

17 18 19 20 21
22

found that it was valid an enforceable, didn't they?

A
Q

I don't know what they found Well, they made it a condition of your parole that

you payoff that judgment, didn't they?

A

They did. And they found that -- and this is a quote from

23 24 25

decision - - "The examiner found that the petitioner used deceitful maneuvers to hide his ability to pay, and that his relatives and friends were obviously acting to help him by

kc
1

29

filing claims and liens to protect his money and property fr'om being available to satisfy the victim's judgment . " result, And as a

2 3 4
5

they took you into custody at the end of that hearing, sir?

didn't they,
A
Q

I don't know what hearing you're discussing, but -The parole revocation hearing But that, you know, again, that was over 10 years

8
9

ago, and
Q

Well, I would like an answer to that question, THE COURT: Okay.. Now, wai t a second

sir.

10 11
12 13

We're not

trying that . THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Yeah. This is only going to his credibility .
I

14 15 16 17
18

think we've gone into that one case enough MR. WALKER: Okay.

Go to some others .

THE COURT: his credibility. MR. WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER:

Some other incidences that would attack

Okay, Your Honor

That's okay .

19 20
21

I don't need all the details. That's all right, Your Honor.

BY MR. WALKER:
Q

22 23 24 25

And just out of curiosity here, no,

just, this was

also because what happened at the last bombing that you committed and you were convicted of, a man named Carl DeLong found a gym bag unattended --

kc
1
2

30

THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT:

I read it. Judge, I object .

I've read it,

3 4
5

I've read it

sir .

Okay. I know i t I know about it

BY MR.. WALKER:
Q

And that was where the liability came from,

is that

8
9

correct? THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: protection,

Sir

go on to something else, will you?

10
11

All right, sir . I'm worried about this peace order. Well, that's okay .

12
13

I mean, even a prostitute's entitled to

14 15 16
17

so go ahead Well, Sure . - - a true violent tendency toward him Now, let's see here I understand. Obviously, even --

MR . WALKER: THE COURT: MR.. WALKER:

18 19 20
21

would arise, would justify a peace order I apologize, Your Honor . BY MR. WALKER:
Q

Okay.

You state that I have stalked you,

is that

22 23 24 25

correct? order?
A

You've made that part of the petition for peace

Absolutely . When is the last time I've been in your' presence?

kc
1
A

31

In a courthouse in Okay.. When was that date?

2
3

Q
A

It was when THE COURT: THE WITNESS: January the 9th . No, It was when Judge Rupp, I mean,

4
5

6
7
8 9

Judge Johnson found that you had assaulted me BY MR" WALKER:

Q
A

So that would be April 11th, isn't that correct? April 11th, That's right, uh-huh The

10

So how on earth could I have stalked you?

11
12
13

statute specifically requires that I be following you in a public place,

A

So how did I stalk you within the last 30 days?

Under Galloway, I've asked you over and over No, no, no, Galloway is not a stalking case, it is I know -- a harassment case And I filed for harassment, I've asked you to

14 15 16 17

Q
A

18 19
20
21

leave -Q

But we're talking about stalking right now., I've asked you to leave me alone" I've written to I've had peace

your lawyer, asked you to leave me alone,

22
23 24

orders against you, asking you to leave me alone"

Q

will you answer' the question, sir? THE WITNESS: That's the thing, Over and over and

25

over'

He wants to make me r'elive this offense that happened

kc 1 2 3 4 5 6
7

32 40, 34, 50 years ago, whatever, and beat it to death. And he

wants to destroy my non-profits, he wants to destroy my work with senators and congressmen.. He has people calling the State

Department right now, all weekend long, because I had a group of Muslims come over from the Middle East to study social networking at my non-profit last week And we posted this on

our site, you know, as a nice thing that we do, and he's out there threatening the State Department.. BY MR.. WALKER: Q The Department THE COURT: Okay.. Well-He's telling people

8 9 10
11

12
13

BY MR.. WALKER: Q What did I THE COURT: (unintelligible) the Department of? All right Go ahead.. Ask another - - now

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Q

wait, and let's not get into this tit for tat, okay. MR WALKER: No. Ask him another question Well, he did not answer the question I

THE COURT: MR . WALKER: asked .

BY MR. WALKER: How on earth did I stalk you within the last 30 days? Because you've got, you've ginned up thousands Did I follow you in any public place? You have ginned up thousands of people to come to my

A
Q

house last night --

kc
1

33 MR. WALKER: THE WITNESS: Okay.. Your Honor --

2 3 4 5
6 7

- - to send my daughters death threats,

to send me death threats, to call me and my mother on the phone-BY MR. WALKER:
Q
A

With what words did I say that? -- and say, you know, we've got a, we've got SWAT

8
9

teams out here that are going to put, blow your brains out . THE COURT: Okay.. Hang on a second.. Now, this is

10
11

not a valid question that. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: don't know I know . Why do you think he's doing this? Why do I what? Why's he doing it? I think he's obsessed. I think he's, I

12
13

14

15 16 17
18

Anybody that would generate 15,000 Tweets about

somebody in a week -THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: I'll answer your question.. called, Okay. Okay.. Now, just, okay, that's fine .

19
20 21

You' r e asking why -Go ahead Okay .

All right..

why do I think he's doing it?

22 23
24

Mr.. Walker is a publisher of a blog

"Everyone Draw Muhammad." THE COURT: THE WITNESS: What? He's a publisher of a blog called,

25

kc 1
2
3

34

"Everyone Draw Muhammad" THE COURT: THE WITNESS:

There is --

Everyone Draws Muhammad? There are 800 depictions of the Prophet

4 5 6 7
8

Muhammad on that blog in very insulting and vile depictions He's asking people to defile and defame the Prophet Muhammad, And-BY MR" WALKER:
Q

With what words did I have (unintelligible) to defame

9 10 11
12

him?
A

He asked me a question, THE COURT: THE WITNESS: Hang on a second, Okay" As part of my work on human

13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20

rights and supporting Muslim artists and activists overseas, I thought that this was wrong, The State Department has said The Government of Pakistan

that it's wrong for him to do this, has banned his blog,

Osama Bin Laden used his blog to recruit I felt this was wrong, And

suicide bombers to kill Americans,

so I filed a motion in this case, in front of Judge Jordan, on this contempt THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: help Muslims
- -

Okay.,

That's all I need, and that's it,

21 22
23 24 25

Okay" So now, he doesn't like the fact that I

THE COURT:

Okay.,

kc
1

35

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: ahead, sir" MR WALKER:

-- and try to work with Muslims -All right.,

I --

2
3
4

and (unintelligible) Okay"

And he's --

5
6

He's got this hate blog out there, Okay" We'll get into i t All right " Go

7 8 9

Okay"

I would like to show him the

statute on stalking, and I'd like him to explain how exactly THE COURT: MR WALKER: No, you don't have to show it to him, Okay" I'm the authority" Huh? Well, I'd like I'll make the

10
11

12
13

THE COURT: MR., WALKER: THE COURT: decision, MR, WALKER: Moving on.,

14

You tell me the facts,

15
16

Yes, okay, all right, Your Honor, I apologize, Your Honor, here"

17
18 19 20 21

Let's see here, THE COURT: MR WALKER:

All right, There we go, Okay"

BY MR" WALKER:
Q

Now, you've not alleged that I have followed you in

22
23 24 25

the public place, is that correct?

A
Q
A

No, you've filed criminal charges against me twice, I just asked one, a simple "yes" or "no" question., He's filed criminal charges against me twice, Judge,

kc
1

36 which have been dismissed by the State's Attorney's Office.

Q

Okay..

On the April 11th hearing with Judge Johnson,

3 4 5 6 7 8
9

didn't Judge Johnson instruct you specifically that he could not stop me or anybody else from discussing accurately your long and deplorable criminal record? you? A That's not what you're doing. You are harassing me, Did he not say that to

you are trying to destroy me

Q

(unintelligible)

What specifically am I doing to harass you? You are ginning up people to send me death threats,

10
11

A and that
Q

12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19

Well, what words did I say to cause people to give

you death threats?

A

When you say that I framed you, which is not true,

when you say that I've falsified records from Suburban Hospital, that I forged these documents from Suburban Hospital, and photo-shopped pictures of me with a black eye, and you're ginning up people to come after me.. works You know how the Internet A new

It's like somebody from the south in the 60s..

20 21 22 23 24 25

guy whistles at the Black girl and gets a lynch mob after him. That's what you're doing . me, and harm my family, funders, You're creating a lynch mob to harm

and to harm my business, and to harm my

and to harm the State Department, and everybody that I

work with .
Q

So it is your position that,

therefore, anybody

kc
1

37

saying anything bad about you on the Internet, including t:ruthfully discussing your criminal :r'eco:rd, is the:refore inciting people to imminent lawless behavio:r, is that correct?
A

3
4
5

We're not talking about you writing an article about In

me; we're talking about stalking me and harassing me,

6
7

Galloway, there was 133 letters sent to the victim in that case" I've had 15,000 Tweets I've had sco:res of death

8 9 10
11

threats and calls to my mothe:r and my daughte:r, and my, and they're friending my daughte:r on Facebook, and trying to th:reaten he:r on Facebook,
Q

That's what's going on he:re" I

And what, specifically, did I do to incite that?

12
13

said bad things about you?

A

Is that the long and short of it? You've ginned up,

You've Tweeted thousands of times

14 15
16
17 18 19

you sta:rted "Everybody Blog Brett Kimbe:rlin Day,,"

Q
A

I sta:rted this? You have -THE WITNESS:

How do you know I sta:rted this?

This is what's going on, Judge, It's obsessive,

He

won't stop,

It's obsessive,

I have a right

to be a father,
Q

I have a :r ight to be a husband" I would like you to answe:r the question,

20 21 22 23 24 25
sir

Excuse me,

THE WITNESS: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT:

I have the Just answer the question" Okay, I'm getting ready, Finish up, finish up, Don't a:rgue

kc 1 2
3

38

come on, let's go . BY MR.. WALKER:

Q

With what words did I ask anybody to start an

4
5

Everyone Blog Brett, About Brett Kimberlin Day? THE WITNESS: Judge, he wrote on this thing, "How

6 7 8
9

Brett Kimberlin tried to frame me for a crime and how you can help . " BY MR.. WALKER:
Q

I'd like you to answer the question . THE WITNESS: "How you can help . " You know what he "Okay, go out and

10

11 12 13
14

says?

He says,

"How you can help," he says, and

contact all his funders, BY MR

Q

WALKER:

Would you show the -THE WITNESS: BY MR WALKER: and --

15 16

17
18

Court where I said that? THE WITNESS: and contact, he's talking in here You know, that's a veiled

19 20 21 22 23
24

about,

"I purchased a handgun . "

threat against me..

And all these, he's got these guys that are I'll read

reading his blog, they're all talking about this, them to you just for the, THE COURT: MR.. WALKER: THE WITNESS: just so you

You don't have to . Yes, that would be nice.

25

Just so you --

kc 1
2

39

THE COURT: THE WITNESS: operate" Yeah,

You don't have to, "Pump gauge shotgun, very simple to

3
4
5

BY MR" WALKER:
Q

Well, excuse me a second,

How do you know he was

6
7

talking about you?

A

Because it's in a thread that you -And this was wr'itten by a third party, is that not

9 10 11 12
13

correct?
A

"Arm yourself and your family and nail the bastard to

the wall,,"
Q

I'm sorry,

Was that written by me or was it written

by a third party? A It's written by a man that you are in contact with,

14

15 16 17 18
19

and you are ginning up and getting - Q

By saying bad things about you on the Internet, is

that correct? THE COURT: THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR WALKER: All right, sir" No, by harassing me, Okay All right, guys, that's enough,

20 21 22 23
24

No, but I What do you want to tell me? Well, I - AARON JUSTIN WALKER

THE COURT: MR WALKER:

25

the respondent, having been fir'St duly sworn, was examined and

kc
1
2

40

testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY THE COURT:

Q

3
4

Give me your case, Well, Your Honor --

Come on,

Tell me what you --

5
6

A
Q

You guys'll go on for 100 years here, we're never' Go ahead,

7
8

going to get around to second base,

A

Your Honor, I am a person who spends his time these

days pretty much writing on the Internet on topics of national interest and topics of, commenting on law, commenting on politics, and I believe that's ultimately what has brought me into this, into his spher'e, campaign against me, Mr, Kimberlin now says that he went to court in order to
Q

10

11

12
13

Mr"

Kimberlin is actually in the

14 15

16

Is he on the campaign against you, or is he defending

17
18 19 20

himself against you?

A

He is in the campaign against me" MR, KIMBERLIN: THE COURT: Okay I've never blogged -Hey, how, that's the same that I

21 22
23
24

said to him, I say to you, you guys don't want to be cell mates up there" MR, KIMBERLIN: THE COURT: Okay,

It could be fun_,

25

BY THE COURT:

kc
1
Q
A

41

Go ahead He approached me first, I never approached him, He

3 4
5

wrote an e-mail to me back on June, on December 15th, where he asked me to -Q

Isn't that more than 30 days ago? Well, I understand, Your Honor, but I -And haven't you been the one but we're asking who's screaming about the 30 days? We're asking who's So let's stay within the 30 days. I understand what you asked me, Who started this,

A
Q
A

7
8 9

Q
A

10
11

Q
A

12 13
14

how this began, and I'm trying to -Q

A
Q

There is nobody that started this" No, Your Honor, no, No, Your Honor,

It's like --

15
16
17

-- Adam and Eve started it probably, but go ahead" And I have, and he is angry because I have published

18 19 20 21 22 23
24

truthful information based on my own eyewitness testimony, based on numerous primary documents, demonstrated that Mr" Kimberlin has attempted to frame me for a cr'ime, Kimberlin
Q
A

But Mr,

Framing you for a crime, Yes" And he has done

That's the assault we talked about outside of Judge

25

Rupp' s courtroom?

kc
1
A
Q

42
Yes,

yes

I can prove, Your Honor

- -

2
3

Got you .
-

A
Q

- i f you'd like to go

- -

4
5

But then we had a trial in that case, didn't we? We did not have a full trial, and that's one of the

6
7

misrepresentations he's made .

Q
A

I don't understand,

Was there a verdict?

What happened was, is the judge found that he did not

9 10
11

make enough of a pr'esentation to justify even requiring defense" MR, KIMBERLIN: THE COURT: THE WITNESS: show you BY THE COURT:
Q

No, that's not true, So the case was dismissed.

12
13

Okay,

No, that is absolutely true, and we can

14 15
16 17 18

Wait.

Was it a criminal court or civil court?

A
Q

It was a civil court case. No, any criminal court, you're talking about a

19
20 21 22

conviction,
A

He filed, he did file -You're not convicted in civil court He did file false charges against me., When

Q
A

23
24 25

videotaped evidence emerged

Q

You guys -- - contr'adicting

kc
1

43
Q

-- can't even get to the point. Were you convicted? I apologize, Your Honor.

I just asked a

2
3 4
5

simple question
A

No . What?

Q
A

I apologize, Your Honor . That's quite all right . No, I was not . Okay . Then what happened to the case?
- -

6
7

Q
A

Were you convicted?

8 9

Q
A

It was nolle prossed after he filed Okay.,

10
11

Nolle prossed, that's an action of the State, Okay.,

not by you and not by him, that's a State action That's all I want to know
A
Q

12
13

Nolle prossed,

Right " That can be brought back in the statute of

14

15
16
17

limitations or whatever -A
Q

That's true, Your Honor, -- the time it becomes -- okay. So that's, okay. So

18
19

it's something different,

A

I don't want., keep going,

Okay

I reported on my, I have told the world about Now, I know

20 21 22
23
24

what this man did to me, but it's all I've done

Your' Honor, I know Your Honor, that when you tell, say to the world, "Someone has done something evil," that you do obviously It's

have a risk of things like violence and things like that., inescapable, But I have never incited violence.,

I have always

25

told people every time that they have said anything violent in

kc 1 2 3
4

44 my presence, joke . " I said, "I do not endorse violence even as a "Oh, wouldn't it be "That

And even if they joke about it,

funny if he went to prison and got raped," I would say, is not cool, that. On top of that, I'm not cool with that."

I was always clear with

5
6 7

I put numerous, numerous, numerous Many of those documents

primary documents on my website.

8
9

originally had his home address, had his phone number, had his e-mail address, etcetera, etcetera. single instance of that. I carefully redacted every

10
11

I didn't put any current photos of

I

Mr.. Kimberlin on the website.

Q
A

12
13

Did you send all those e-mails that he had there? I did not send any nasty e-mail to him .

I've never

14

sent him an e-mail, period .

Q
A

15
16 17

That was not the question . Well, I apologize.

You've changed it again .

Q
A

Did you send those e-mails? No, I didn't. I've never e-mailed him, period .

18

19
20

Q
A

So those 54 pages, 540 e-mails, never came from you? Well, the 54 pages he's talking about is Twitter, and

21 22 23 24 25

Twitter is something where you talk to the world, not to Brett Kimberlin . Brett Kimberlin believes that if you speak anywhere it is equivalent to putting a letter in his

on the Internet, mailbox.

And he is trying to use, he's trying to equate it to that, or in

Galloway, in Galloway v. State, saying Your Honor,

kc
1

45

that case, that guy sent 122 letters to the add:ress of a woman he kidnaped and stalked previously, And Mr, Kimberlin is

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

trying to say it's equivalent to sending him a letter" He created Google alerts, as he just admitted, bring this stuff into his, Google, in the e-mail inbox, to

He has asked

"Please tell me when anyone in the wo:r'ld does this," He could ask one of them to look at it, He

He has employees.,

doesn't even look at it,

He chooses to b:ring this in and then And this matte:r has become an

pretends I'm intruding on him, issue of national debate, Hono:r., MR., KIMBERLIN: THE COURT: THE WITNESS:

10
11 12
13

Let me show you an example, You:r

Judge, may I respond? He's--

No, let's give him his way, This is,

14

fo:r example, an a:rticle that

15
16 17

appea:red in the Washington Examine:r, and this is about Brett Kimberl in and his conduct towa:rd me" MR ., KIMBERL IN : THE COURT: THE WITNESS: That -I believe he --

18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

I don't know (unintelligible) -- :refers to me as, under the pen name, And he says at one point --

Aa:ron Worthing (phonetic sp ) let's see here -- he says,

"But far more serious is a tactic

He's talking about the tactics "An activist and founder of the

adopted by B:r'ett Kimbe:r'lin" used to supp:ress free speech"

group Velvet Revolution, who was convicted in 1981 of exploding eight bombs --

kc 1
2
3

46

MR . KIMBERLIN: THE WITNESS:

I object -- in 1978 in Speedway, Indiana . " "Nowadays, Kimberlin targets

And he goes on, conservative bloggers,

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

like Aaron Worthing" -- that's my pen

name -- "and Robert Stacy McCain in Maryland, and Patrick Frey of Patterincas Pontifications.. Why? For publishing facts Kimberlin harasses

about Brett Kimberlin's criminal record..

his targets by, among other things, filing false charges in courts that require expensive, time-consuming litigation, disrupting his targets' workplaces, dropping dark hints about spouses and kids." This is the kind of thing, this is part of the national debate that's going on right now about Mr . Kimberlin's conduct, because I came forward and told my story, and I told it peacefully I didn't ask anybody to do him any harm. I have done no such He

16
17 18 19
20

claims I said to write to his donors . thing. BY THE COURT:

Q
A

You spotlighted his -I spotlighted his conduct. This is an article from

21 22 23 24 25

the news site known as The Blaze, and it talks again about it
Q

Just - Okay, Your Honor .

A
Q

- - tell me why .

Tell me why you spotlighted his

conduct.

kc
1
A

47

Why?

Because I believe he committed a crime against

2 3

me .

I believe he attempted to put me in prison.

Q

So because you believe he committed a crime that the

4
5

State's Attorney refused to prosecute?

A

Yes, sir.. Okay .

And I believe he --

6
7

Q
A

I believe the State's Attorney is wrong in that

8
9

decision .
Q

So wait, and follow this now. Yeah . But you're not discussing the alleged incident that

10
11

12 13 14
15 16

the State's Attorney said they weren't going to prosecute

I'm not saying whether it was or it didn't happen,

that's not

the point -- so now, you go into somebody's past and you dig up whatever you can against them.
A

Is that -I have discussed his

No, not at all, Your Honor.

17
18

past
Q

Well, you've mentioned this bombing so many times. You know, I'm over 21 years old, not much, but I What do you think I am?

19 20 21
22

remember it.

remember all this stuff..

A

Well, I apologize if I've -So you -over-emphasized it . Okay But go ahead, just, that's just, I'm just

23

A
Q

24

25

trying to find your conduct, sir .

kc
1
A

48

Well, just to show you an example, this is the post I don't expect you to read all

that he is complaining about.

3 4
5

of it, but I would like to show just the part where it talks about-Q

I don't intend to read much of it, tell you the

6
7

truth.
A

I would like to, or I could at least -You've got more stuff over there than is in the

9
10
11

Library of Congress, but go ahead .

A

Okay..

But what I have here, Your Honor, toward the I asked people to spread I asked people to talk

end, is I ask how you can help me.

12

the word far and wide about the story .

13
14 15

about it, and he claims that's incitement

Q

Why? Because I want justice, Your Honor. This, think that

16
17

like
Q
A
Q

Want justice? Huh?

How do you want justice?

18 19
20

How do you want justice? I only want justice through the courts.. And I've I

21
22

never said anything different, Your Honor . am dedicated to the law

I'm an attorney..

I'm dedicated to the Constitution . Mr. Kimberlin has done violence And I also

23 24 25

I'm dedicated to free speech.

to all those concepts, literally and figuratively..

asked for people to write to the State's Attorney's Office and

kc 1 2
3

49

ask for charges to be reinstated against Mr

Kimerlin.

This is

petitioning by government for a r'edress of gr'ievances

Q

There wasn't charges against him, he had the charges You were the defendant .

4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11

against you.. A

I put charges against him for multiple counts of

perjury, false statements to the police, et cetera

Q

And they have not been prosecuted by -They have not, they have nolle prossed that, Your

A Honor.
Q
A

-- by Mr. McCarthy and company. Yeah. And I've asked for them to do that, I've asked

12 13 14 15
16
17

for people to donate to a defense fund as I deal with Mr . Kimberlin's numerous frivolous lawsuits. Yet, Mr . Kimberlin

has said that, "I have filed 100 lawsuits, and it'd be no sweat to file one more . "
Q
A

He said that to my friend, Patrick Frey .

Hey, well, how's this going to end? I don't Help me along. Well How do you see it ending? I'm going to tell you the truth -I make all my money by predicting the future. Okay . And that's how I do it.. See, then I bet on Okay? How's it --

18 19
20

Q
A

Q
A

21
22 23 24

Q
A

25

something

kc 1
2
3

50
A
Q

This is my hope, Your Honor .

- - and bang, I make a lot of money .

This is my hope, Your Honor. Yes! that's the way I do it Okay You might even know
-

A
Q

5
6

A
Q

You two guys putting

How do you see this ending?

7
8 9

swords to each other's throats?

A
Q

Huh? How do you see it ending? You two guys going

10 11 12 13 14 15

outside, drawing swords and shooting A

Q

No,
- -

I will never each other?

A
Q

I would never resort to violence. So then it's going to be a non-violent ruination of

an individual?
A

16
17 18 19 20 21 22
23

Well no, it is not a desired -- Your Honor, what I Look at, for example, what happened A man named George His The

want is I want - - okay..

with the Trayvon Martin incident, okay?

Zimmerman shot this young man named Trayvon Martin..

parents felt that he deserved to be charged with a crime.. police did not charge him.. And what happened? Now,

So they raised a national uproar.

They've now charged him.

I disagree with the decision to charge Mr.

24 25

Zimmerman, but that is the model of what I am trying to do. I'm trying to create enough of a national uproar to create

kc
1

51 pressure on John McCarthy to finally charge him with the crimes related to him trying to frame me for a crime. get justice. debate " And he wants to shut me up. I'm trying to

2
3
4

We have a national

I can go on and on. Veteran reporters

5
6
Q

You know what too much justice is?

Well,

think on

it, A else" But, Your Honor, he can do this again to someone Any time, he could go and claim some third party, he "Oh, Bob, he beat me up," And this time, maybe his Or maybe, what, his

8 9 10
11

could say,

buddy, Neal Rauhauser will back him up '. wife? I don't know"

12
13

And then, and he'll - - and he has a That was found by

history of getting people to lie for him. the Parole Commission" And so then this time,

14 15

that poor schmuck will have no If Mr Kimberlin comes

16
17 18
19 20

idea who he is, will have no defense"

to this Court -- his petition for a peace order was deceptive. He made the court believe that I'm e-mailing him, and I did not. I've never e-mailed him. I've never called him. I've

never text messaged

I've done no form of contact with him, And Your Honor, He's claimed

21 22
23

except sending service of process in the mail . you want to hear something pretty r'emarkable? that is harassment too Honor.
Q

I'd like to show that to you, Your

24
25

Listen

kc
1
A

52 No, well, this is important because it answers the

2
3

question, why
Q

But you still haven't answered my question..

Where do

4
5

you see this case going?

A
Q

I see the -You've talked for 10 minutes and raised a lot of

7
8 9

points people get excited about you

A

I thought I was -- but I don't know (unintelligible), but I want to

10
11

know, where do you see this thing going?

A

I hope to raise enough of a consciousness to convince That's where I

12 13 14 15
16

the State's Attorney to finally charge him . hope it goes..

Q
A

That's my goal .

And how are you going to do this? By I've been raising awareness, that there is now You look up Google, you'll find And I believe probably at These

400,000 posts on Google

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

400, 000 hits for him, discussing it

least 300,000 of them are not very pleasant toward him . are people calling for him to file a new charge.
Q

A man in --

But who started this? Who started this? Who's the

- -

A
Q

Mr. Kimberlin

- -

A
Q

started this. No, no, no, you started it. How did I start this?

kc
1

53

You're Googling all these people and get them all

2
3
4

excited and try turning them against him.

A
Q

But you're, okay, in that sense, Your Honor -The same way if a politician gets elected, he doesn't See, see

5 6
7

go see everybody, he gets the whole thing going. (unintelligible)

A

Well, I understand, Your Honor, but -And that you're just the same thing, only it deals in

9
10
11

something different.
A

But it is my right, under the First Amendment, to It is my right to tell the

talk about what this man did to me . world what he did to me

Q
A

12 13
14 15

That, Galloway v. State

Whew . -- made it very specific.. The harassment statute

Well, I mean, within reason, my friend, within

16
17

reason .
A

Within reason? Within reason. I have had a crime committed against me. What is

18
19

20
21

unreasonable about seeking justice?

Q

You know, I shouldn't say this, but I think you got The one who decides to prosecute cr'imes is the

22 23
24

it twisted. government
A

Of course . and only the government, and not you

25

kc
1

54
A
Q

Of course, Your Honor. And you're doing this, I think, under a guise, under You can't. You

2 3 4 5 6 7
8
9

this new banner' of "I've got the right to do . " can't.

Suppose you didn't like a girl, and you wanted to talk He feels the same way. He feels violated.

about her chastity.

And then you have to look at the r'easonableness between the two of you and the conduct.. A
Q

That's why said, where's this going .

Well, Your Honor This is going to you guys shooting each other, in my

10
11

opinion . A
Q

Well, Your Honor', that is absolutely not true. You claim to be peaceful . I think, you know,
I'm

12 13
14

Irish, okay?

And one of the things the Irish are best at in And a real good Irish middleweight is a

the world is boxing counter-puncher.

15 16
17 18

He doesn't throw the first punch, but boy, he

lets the second one go and he's got you, see.

A

Well, Your Honor You decide to battle and he comes back And see,

19 20 21 22 23 24 25

you're the kind of guy, you don't want to get into this to settle it, mano y mano; you want to get all these friends who got nothing else to do with their time, in this Judge's

opinion, because my God, I'm a little bit older than you are, and I haven't got enough time in the day to do all the things I want to do. I got more. And I felt by retir'ement, I would have less to do.

Because everybody knows I'm free --

kc
1 A
Q

55

Well, Your Honor -- - so they all come to me, But you are star'ting a

2 3
4

conflagration, for lack of a better wor'd, and you're just letting the thing go recklessly no matter where it goes,
A

5
6

So you get some -- and I'm going to use the word

7
8

freak somewhere out in Oklahoma got nothing better to do with his time, so he does the nastiest things in the wor ld he can to this poor gentleman., it?
A

What right has that guy got to do

10
11

He has no r'ight to do that, but Your Honor -Because you incited him, But Your Honor, I did not incite him within the

12
13

14

Brandenburg standard.,
Q

15
16

Well,

forget Brandenburg"

Let's go by Vaughey right But you know, where I it was settled

now, and common sense out in the world

17 18

grew up in Brooklyn, when that stuff was pulled, real quickly.,

A

19
20 21

I'm not sure what that means, Your Honor" Very quickly, and I'm not going to talk about those it ended fast" I even can tell you when I grew

ways, but boy,

22 23 24 25

up in my community, you wanted to date an Italian girl, you had to get the Italian boys' permission, but that was the old neighborhoods back in the city, and it was really fair, someone did something unfair to you, your sister, your' When

kc
1 2

56

girlfriend, you got some friends, back of the truck . MR . WALKER: THE COURT:

take him for a ride in the

3 4

Well, Your Honor, what the -But that ended it.. You guys have got

5 6 7
8
9

this new mechanical stuff out here, electronic stuff that you can just ruin somebody without doing anything. it.. Used to, you don't remember bailment MR.. WALKER: THE COURT: Your Honor -- when you were in bailments at Yale Law But you started

10
11

School, what the prof said about the bailments? MR . WALKER: THE COURT: Not fully . The one who starts that bad bailment is

12 13 14 15
16 17

the one with the problem . MR.. WALKER: THE COURT: MR. WALKER: THE COURT: But Your Honor -That's who you hold it against. He's-You can't keep saying, "He gave it to me,

18 19 20 21 22 23
24

he gave it to me, gave it to me." MR . WALKER: THE COURT: person to start with, MR WALKER: Pardon me, Your Honor. But if he didn't give it to the wrong it wouldn't happen Well, pardon me, Your Honor. He started

it when he committed a crime against me THE COURT: you . No, he did not commit a crime against

25

kc
1

57 MR, WALKER: evidence, THE COURT: He did not commit a crime against you, Your Honor, you haven't looked at the

2
3

4
5

He's innocent until proven guilty" MR, WALKER: THE COURT: Well, I'm in (unintelligible), you

Now, you're in the

7 8 9 10
11

take the actions to MY". McCarthy" people from Oklahoma,

You don't get all these

Indiana, Wyoming, wherever the heck it

is, and all these past things, JUDGE'S RULING I'm going to rule right now" don't need arguments" I could be 100, I've heard enough,
I

12 13 14 15 16 17
18

I'm almost an hour on

this case, and all I've learned is one guy hides behind the sheet and runs his little machine while the other man suffers" I don't care what his background is, also be raped" MR" WALKER: Of cour se, Your Honor, But what I care about is, he's an to his own privacy and not That's a prostitute can

THE COURT:

19 20 21 22
23 24

individual, he's entitled to have, to be threatened,

Anything else is, the thing I didn't like is

these death threats that ar'e coming, and his children are reading them MR That is nasty and raw, WALKER: But, Your Honor, I did not cause that,

THE COURT: when they told you,

Now, let's see, what year was it at Yale "Don't talk when a judge is talking"?

25

kc 1
2
3

58

MR, WALKER:
I --

Okay

My apologies, Your Honor',

And

THE COURT:

But you've just done it and done it and

4 5 6
7

done it, you've just, you just, see, that's why these things keep continuing, I am going to pass the order because I find that they are worse than harassment, as far as I am concerned. It's a And,

8 9
10

downright dirty, nasty thing to do to somebody, I find,

quite frankly, if we were sitting in a criminal case, you'd get a sentence you would well, I'm known to be a heavy sentencer

11 12
13

anyway - - but you'd get a sentence that you wouldn't like, because you're trying to tear somebody down through almost, through innuendos" And you're not doing it directly, you're If it was

14

doing it indirectly, and that's what hurts so much,

15
16

directly, he could come right on, you could come in a court of law, and we'd have this thing settled, one, two, three. But

17 18
19

you've got people allover writing these things, got 54 pages that he says comes directly from you, and he's got volumes over there of these people that are doing it., It's absolutely wrong, So what I'm going to do is I am going to pass this peace order" months " And it's going to r'emain in effect, sir, for six It's wrong, son"

20 21
22

23

So this is May 15, basically, I do mine by, June,

24
25

July, August, September, October, November -MR" WALKER: Your Honor, if I can say one thing here,

kc
1

59 THE COURT: MR.. WALKER: THE COURT: No, you can't right now . All right. That's what you got to, as when I was

2
3

4
5 6

over in Munich in the appeals courts over there -MR. WALKER: THE COURT: Okay, Your Honor. -- appeal. All right, sir. This order During

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

shall remain in effect until November the 15th, 2012..

that period of time, you not shall commit any act that causes him, puts him in fear and apprehension of bodily harm, any act that places the gentleman in fear and apprehension of grave bodily harm, any assault, offense, rape, attempt to rape, sexual

false impr isonment, harassment, stalking, trespass, or

malicious destruction of property Respondent shall not contact the person in perBon, by telephone, in writing, or any other means. And "any other

means" is putt.ing it on a blog, a Tweet, a megaphone, a smoke signals - - what else is out there - - sonar, radar, Nothing . MR WALKER: So, You speak about him for six months? How many times are you going to - What happened to the FirBt Amendment? How many times are you going to interrupt I'm not allowed to -laser.

19
20 21 22 23 24 25 me?

THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT: MR . WALKER: THE COURT:

kc
1

60

And you shall not contact or har'ass him in any way, you shall not enter his residence, wherever' he may be living, you shall remain away from his place of employment wherever that may be. He may be employed .

2
3

4
5
6

Now, let me get to the -- now, should this, should you violate this order, sir, you are subj ect to being

7
8

prosecuted by the State's Attorney's Office as a cr'iminal case. And if found guilty, the maximum penalty, the first violation is 90 days in jail and/or,
$1,000 fine,

9 10

I think it's $500 fine,

could be

or worse than that,

it could be contempt of this

11
12 13

Court, where you could,

I could do anything that I deem

necessary to keep you away from him, or e-mailing him, or Twitting him, or Googling him, or tooting him, or smoking him, whatever phrase you use - - I don't know what the phrases are. Thank you very kindly MR. KIMBERLIN: want to thank THE COURT: me . No, no, no, just don't say anyt.hing to Judge, I want to thank you, and I

14
15

16
17

18
19

I'm just a civil servant doing my job .

20
21

(Unintelligible), Madam Clerk. MR. WALKER: (unintelligible) I'll stay here, Your Honor. I'm

22
23

Just unbelievable . Madam Clerk, this should be yours also Oh,

I'm sorry,

THE COURT: Oh, what was this? realize, I'm sorry.

24 25

I'm sorry..

Yes, yes, yes,

Yes, he was with the officer didn't

kc 1 2
3

61 appeal, right? On (unintelligible)? Correct . Yes.. You know why I remember that?

THE CLERK: THE COURT:

4 5
6
7

That' s why I had this thing here to give to you . (The proceedings were concluded . )

8 9

10
11

12
13

14 15 16 17
18 19

20 21 22
23

24

25

kc

62

Digitally signed by Kimber'ly L, Chwirut DIGITALLY SIGNED CERTIFICATE

DEPOSITION SERVICES, INC. hereby certifies that the

foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the duplicated electr'onic sound recording of the pr'oceedings in the District Court for Montgomery County in the matter of: Case No. 0601SP019792012

BRETT KIMBERLIN
v"

AARON JUSTIN WALKER

By:

Kimberly L, Chwirut Transcriber