“What part do I play?” asks Robin DiAngelo, academic and author of White Fragility. DiAngelo’s critical, urgent work asks us to question what we thinkwe know about racism, the conversations we avoid having about racism, and the roles we might (unintentionally) be playing in upholding inequality. For example, says DiAngelo: “We white women have to stop using sexism to protect racism.” In this conversation with Elise Loehnen, DiAngelo calls on white people to let go of guilt and to pick up responsibility. When you break free from the urge to defend yourself and start doing the inner work: It can be fantastically liberating, says DiAngelo. (For more, see The goop Podcast hub.)