ASME Y14.

5 Proposal on Feature of Size

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Topics
1. How to ensure minimum size is met on a feature of size where portions (or in some cases all) of the features are not opposed. 2. Clarify the definition of size in Y14.5.
3. Understand the definition of size from Y14.5.1

4. Using the size definition from Y14.5.1 to clarify what size means in Y14.5
5. Proposal to change Y14.5 to clarify: actual local size, opposed, size, and feature of size
ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski May 2005

Definition of feature of size from Y14.5

1.3.17 Feature of Size. One cylindrical or spherical surface, or set of two opposed elements or opposed parallel surfaces, associated with a size dimension.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Dimensioning Concepts Applied to a Feature or a Feature of Size

Dimensioning Concept
Flatness Circularity Cylindricity Profile of a Surface Profile of a Line Tangent Plane Datum Targets Position Concentricity Symmetry MMC, LMC and RFS Yes Bonus Datum Shift Viirtual Condition Rule #1 No No Yes

Applies to a Feature of Size

Applies to a Feature

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Opposite from the Oxford English Dictionary

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Example of Fully Opposed Surfaces in Facing and Opposite Directions

Tab Tab Slot A B C D

Surfaces A&B B&C

B&D C&D E&F

Facing _________ from each other

Surfaces Considered Facing

Away Towards
Same Direction Away Towards

Opposed
Opposed Same Opposed Opposed
May 2005

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

Examples of Fully Opposed Line Elements Facing and Opposite Directions

A B C D

Surfaces A&B B&C B&D C&D E&F G&H

Facing _________ from each other Towards Away Same Direction Towards Towards Towards

Surfaces Considered Facing Opposed Opposed Same Opposed Opposed Opposed

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Partially Opposed Features

1.
A

2.
A B

B Surfaces A and B are different lengths

Surfaces A and B are different shapes

3.
A

4.
A

B Surfaces A and B are offset

B Surfaces A and B contain gaps and interruptions

May 2005

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

Examples of Partially Opposed Line Elements

1.

2.

Distance A contains line elements of different lengths Distance A contains offset line elements

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Cylindrical Shapes with Truncated Ends

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Interrupted Features of Size

2.6 2.0 0.2 M INTERRUPTED 8.2 7.8 INTERRUPTED

2X

10.6 10.0 0 M

0.2

23.2 22.8 INTERRUPTED

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Partially Opposed from Y14.5

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Partially Opposed from Y14.5

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Partially Opposed from Y14.5

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Partially Opposed from Y14.5

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Examples of Partially Opposed

There are at least 18 examples of partially opposed features of size in Y14.5. There are numerous cases of partially opposed features of size in industry. Partially opposed features of size cause problems when determining the LMC size in the non-opposed areas.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of feature of size from Y14.5

1.3.17 Feature of Size. One cylindrical or spherical surface, or set of two opposed elements or opposed parallel surfaces, associated with a size dimension.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5

5-1

Assumes Rule #1 is in effect

In Y14.5 the definition for size is limited.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5

Problems with Actual Local Size

The direction of measurement is not described, resulting in many answers possible for the value.
It describes a two-point measurement Only works with opposed points

5-1

Actual local size

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5

5-1

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5

However, Y14.5 does not define how size is interpreted when Rule #1 is overridden

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Y14.5 Invokes Y14.5.1

5-1

Y14.5 invokes Y14.5.1 which defines how size is interpreted both with and without Rule #1.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

MMC
LMC SPINE

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

Spine Types
A 0-dimensional spine is a point, and applies to spherical features. A 1-dimensional spine is a simple (nonintersecting curve in space, and applies to cylindrical features. A 2-dimensional spine is a simple (nonintersecting surface, and applies to parallel plane features.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

When perfect form at MMC is required

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Definition of Size from Y14.5.1

When perfect form at MMC is required

A

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Size and Partially Opposed Features

In Y14.5
Actual local size requires fully opposed surfaces. Actual local size is defined as a two-point measurement. There is no direction for the measurement defined. Should actual local size be defined as a tolerance zone? Actual local size is only explained as a method for checking a minimum distance.

In Y14.5.1
Does not require fully opposed features. Does not use the term actual local size. Uses two half space boundaries to define the size tolerance zone. Explanation for use with max or min size definition Works with or without Rule #1.

How is a max size checked when Rule #1 is overridden as in figure 6-3?

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski May 2005

Size according to Y14.5

The 64.6 65.0 diameter is considered a feature of size. Using the Y14.5 definition of size, it is impossible to measure the actual local size of the diameter.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Now lets look at how the same size dimension would be interpreted using

Y14.5.1

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Size according to Y14.5.1

The 64.6 65.0 diameter is considered a feature of size. Using the Y14.5.1 definition of size, the size tolerance zone of the 64.6-65.0 diameter is defined by two half space boundaries. The boundaries are established by two balls: The MMC limit is defined by a ball equal to the MMC size. The LMC limit is defined by a ball equal to the LMC limit. The balls are moved along appropriate spines to define the tolerance zone.
ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski May 2005

Examples of Size Using Y14.5.1

Drawing Meaning
10.6 MMC boundary

10.6 10.0

MMC ball

LMC ball

No difficulty measuring the portion of the feature that does not have opposed points
ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski May 2005

Examples of Size Using Y14.5.1

Drawing
10.6 10.0

Meaning
10.6 MMC boundary

MMC ball

LMC ball

No difficulty measuring the portion of the feature that does not have opposed points
ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski May 2005

Recommendations
Text in Y14.5M-1994 Proposed Text 1.3.24 Size, Actual. The general term for the size of a feature. See ASME Y14.5.1 paragraphs 2.3.1 and 2.3.2 for an explanation of variations in size.

5-1

Text in Y14.5M-1994

Proposed Text Delete paragraph 1.3.25 and replace all instances of Actual local size with Actual Size. (11 places in text and 4 places in figures)

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Recommendations
Text in Y14.5M-1994 Proposed Text 2.7 LIMITS OF SIZE Unless otherwise specified (by specification of a straightness control applied to a size dimension, or a note as described in paragraph 2.7.2), the limits of size prescribe the extent within which variations of geometric form, as well as size are allowed. This control applies solely to individual features of size as defined in para. 1.3.17.

5-1

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

Recommendations

Show the MMC and LMC balls located along spines in several examples Add a paragraph and examples to explain opposed Add a paragraph and examples of features of size with partially opposed features.

ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski

May 2005

The end
ASME Y14.5 presentation by Alex Krulikowski May 2005